| Is this on Nourry? 19:29 - Oct 19 with 28778 views | Hunterhoop |
I’ll bring it to the fore… |  | | |  |
| Is this on Nourry? on 21:02 - Oct 21 with 2262 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Is this on Nourry? on 20:48 - Oct 21 by daveB |
very similar to the JFH summer when Belk did the same |
This is not aimed at you, Dave, just a chance to chime in.
I'm uncomfortable with the idea of Belk being blamed for signings as we have no idea who he recommends, what criteria he's given to conduct his searches or what budgets he's being told to work to. For all we know he could be recommending far better players only to be ignored. For all we know he could be saying "Player X fits the criteria you gave me but there are red flags as well" and they go ahead and sign Player X anyway.
As ever, the uncomfortable and unfortunate thought is that us supporters don't know the full picture. |  |
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| Is this on Nourry? on 21:12 - Oct 21 with 2207 views | rbee |
Good memory and knowledge Dave.
According to Wiki we signed 46 players during the 2015/16 and 2016/17 seasons ten of which were Trainees.
We paid 1.5 million for Ariel Borysiuk who had been moved on in just about every transfer window previously but looks to be better than some of our recent summer signings.
Most players we would not remember but there is Chery, Polter, Luongo, Hall, Smithies, Washington, Bidwell, Smith, Dieng, Freeman, Paweł Wszołek, Bowler, Ossie, Chair and Eze. |  | | |
| Is this on Nourry? on 21:16 - Oct 21 with 2177 views | londonscottish |
| Is this on Nourry? on 18:50 - Oct 21 by Northernr |
/insane. |
It's alright. Yes, I know he was a only a young recruitment consultant with some "models" when he joined but he's 27 now. |  |
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| Is this on Nourry? on 21:21 - Oct 21 with 2144 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
| Is this on Nourry? on 19:37 - Oct 21 by Northernr |
Well I took it as the head of recruitment will carry the can.
Possibly teed up at the fans forum but the "he's got more power than most heads of recruitment in the game" comment. |
So Nourry will pass the buck onto Belk? What a cowardly little weasel.
Belk didn't just go out and sign those players himself. He would have been given parameters by Nourry.
Does Nourry really think we are that fcking stupid? |  | | |
| Is this on Nourry? on 21:28 - Oct 21 with 2091 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Is this on Nourry? on 18:04 - Oct 21 by rbee |
It's certainly thinking out of the box but after six years of basically failure under his ownership I can see why Ruben has tried something different.
It would have been a board decision. |
It was a shit decision that’s for sure. |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| Is this on Nourry? on 21:33 - Oct 21 with 2055 views | colinallcars |
As Brian says, we none of us knows what goes on behind the scenes, but given what Marti achieved last season, it's a bit of a hyperspace leap to end up with what we've got now - it has to be these signings.
As Churchill said to the Americans in 1941 “give us the tools and we'll finish the job” |  | | |
| Is this on Nourry? on 21:39 - Oct 21 with 1995 views | rbee |
As I said previously for me the number one villain in our recent club history is Tony Fernandes.
Looking at the list of players we were signing eight, nine years ago it occurs to me that the number two villain in our recent club history are the Profit and Sustainability Regulations which continually restrict us to a large degree.
We couldn't afford to keep hold of Luongo, Pav, Smithies not even Willock this past transfer window. I have no doubt that Ruben and our other owners would be investing a lot more in to the club if it wasn't for those regulations and Christian Nourry's services would not have been required.
That list also adds a little perspective to Andy Belkins recruitment role and successes. [Post edited 21 Oct 21:43]
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| Is this on Nourry? on 21:55 - Oct 21 with 1898 views | 1JD |
| Is this on Nourry? on 17:59 - Oct 21 by daveB |
no problem with him bringing in a consultant to look over everything, to then let that person run the club is unbelievable |
The thing is, Nourry and his pal at Retexo were not “football consultants”, but “recruitment consultants for backroom staff”. There is a very big difference.
Same as there is a major difference between a management consultant and a recruitment consultant in traditional businesses. Completely different skillsets and expertise.
Retexo was in fact started as a specialist recruitment consultancy for backroom staff; namely Heads of Performance, Heads of Fitness.
From there, the marketing was spun (fair play) towards a full service football audit consultancy…. Best practices in football operations, football strategy, player recruitment, academy structures, and more. Plus chuck in AI and analytics for fun, because you can.
And QPR bought that hook line and sinker. And we are where we are. | | | |
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| Is this on Nourry? on 22:03 - Oct 21 with 1854 views | queensparker |
Haven’t read the whole thread so forgive me if this is a tired old point, but this team’s problem is transparently in centre midfield.
To be fair we had Field and we spent good money on a supposed “enforcer” Varane and a supposed “creator” Madsen so it’s not like they didn’t address what was obvious
The problem is - unlike last season when we got Hayden in in the same position and he transformed the team - the replacements have been, to date, shite.
That’s a recruitment issue |  | | |
| Is this on Nourry? on 22:03 - Oct 21 with 1840 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Is this on Nourry? on 19:29 - Oct 21 by rbee |
This I would agree on as it infers that Lee Hoos and Sir Les were twiddling their thumbs 50% of the time.
Too early to judge Nourry in the CEO role and as a DOF he has had one good transfer window and what is turning in to a lousy second one which will require another good January 2025 window. Let's see what transpires. |
It's not that. You're still missing the point so please allow me to explain.
Some feel that the current malaise is down to the owners because, whilst benevolent, over the years they've proven themselves inept at running QPR. For more than a decade now they've made one poor decision after another. Some of these decisions, like hiring an inexperienced DOF in Les, or recruiting a young CEO with no credentials in Christian, were just obviously bonkers. No self-respecting business would or should consider hiring senior directors with zero experience or expertise. It should be no different at QPR but, not for the first time, our owners think it's ok to have someone learning in a C' level role. IMHO, this demonstrates a lack of care and respect for the club and its traditions.
Now, you appear to be defending the owners on this point (which, of course, is your prerogative) and you asked LFW comrades what they would have Ruben do. Several erudite posters have given you the answer - if Ruben feels incapable of running the club himself then he should at least put it in the care of senior directors with relevant experience and a track record of success in the same roles. Not a junior consultant barely out of nappies just because he's a walking wordsmith.
We are QPR. A professional association football club with a rich history stretching back 142 years currently plying its trade in the second tier of an elite football country. As a professional organisation of such standing, we deserve to be run professionally by seasoned professionals with commensurate experience. Anything less, IMHO, is a dereliction of duty. |  | | |
| Is this on Nourry? on 22:07 - Oct 21 with 1827 views | daveB |
| Is this on Nourry? on 21:02 - Oct 21 by BrianMcCarthy |
This is not aimed at you, Dave, just a chance to chime in.
I'm uncomfortable with the idea of Belk being blamed for signings as we have no idea who he recommends, what criteria he's given to conduct his searches or what budgets he's being told to work to. For all we know he could be recommending far better players only to be ignored. For all we know he could be saying "Player X fits the criteria you gave me but there are red flags as well" and they go ahead and sign Player X anyway.
As ever, the uncomfortable and unfortunate thought is that us supporters don't know the full picture. |
I think he's an easy fall guy but the recruitment at QPR has been really poor for years and he's the head of it, he's had more than enough opportunities to get this right.
What always annoys me at QPR is how when we make a good signing you can't move for people claiming credit. everyone from the dinner lady up claimed credit for Eze. Belk was all over Kenneth Paal was all my idea when we liked Paal but no one has been keen to take responsibility for Taylor Richards for example.
I might be completely wrong on Belk but I just look at the profile of signings we made this summer and it's eerily similar to 2015/16 and he's the link between those 2 summers
It's not cheap gambles either. Celar and Madsen have cost a lot of money
[Post edited 21 Oct 22:10]
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| Is this on Nourry? on 22:23 - Oct 21 with 1717 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Is this on Nourry? on 22:07 - Oct 21 by daveB |
I think he's an easy fall guy but the recruitment at QPR has been really poor for years and he's the head of it, he's had more than enough opportunities to get this right.
What always annoys me at QPR is how when we make a good signing you can't move for people claiming credit. everyone from the dinner lady up claimed credit for Eze. Belk was all over Kenneth Paal was all my idea when we liked Paal but no one has been keen to take responsibility for Taylor Richards for example.
I might be completely wrong on Belk but I just look at the profile of signings we made this summer and it's eerily similar to 2015/16 and he's the link between those 2 summers
It's not cheap gambles either. Celar and Madsen have cost a lot of money
[Post edited 21 Oct 22:10]
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I get that too, Dave, of course. Absolutely. | |
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| Is this on Nourry? on 22:24 - Oct 21 with 1710 views | Mick_S |
| Is this on Nourry? on 22:03 - Oct 21 by queensparker |
Haven’t read the whole thread so forgive me if this is a tired old point, but this team’s problem is transparently in centre midfield.
To be fair we had Field and we spent good money on a supposed “enforcer” Varane and a supposed “creator” Madsen so it’s not like they didn’t address what was obvious
The problem is - unlike last season when we got Hayden in in the same position and he transformed the team - the replacements have been, to date, shite.
That’s a recruitment issue |
So much of this thread is way beyond anything I know. That’s a great post in my house. Tomorrow is just so important in sorting that midfield out, taking some of the pressure away from the defence and freeing us up. |  |
| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Is this on Nourry? on 22:26 - Oct 21 with 1700 views | Hunterhoop |
I’ve met Andy Belk. Went to Uni with his brother. Met him for a beer in his first year or two at the club a while back. He’s a seems a decent bloke. And he has been kept on by a variety of different leaders at the club.
As Dave says though, he has had a few stabs at this now, and, over the last decade or so, since he has been here (and Penrice was bumped out), the success of signings we have paid money for has been incredibly slim. I don’t think we have paid money for someone who we then sold for more money. That is not a good return. We have spent very good money on Madsen, Celar, Varane, and Dembele this summer. There needs to be 1-2 big hits there. There have been a lot of misses in the past. At some point you have to be accountable, even if these are your 2nd and 3rd choices because we can’t afford your primary recommendation. They’re still near the top of your list.
From everything I have heard from those closer to the club than me, this summer has been Nourry and Belk leading the signings. There has to be accountability there. Madsen and Celar, at present, look like very worrying investments.
This summer was our once every 3 years chance to spend a bit and have a go… | | | |
| Is this on Nourry? on 22:34 - Oct 21 with 1660 views | baz_qpr |
The remit is to create value right, not necessarily have a top 10 side full of championship players in their late 20's early 30's. Problem is now the squad is unbalanced. I dont think the problem is who we recruited its who we did not recruit and having key injuries to Colback, Chair, JCS and Morrison as the back up to JCS. So we've thrown these young players straight into the lions den. We are 3 players short IMHO CB, CM and CF where we need Championship experience.
Any frees still available we should be looking at ? |  | | |
| Is this on Nourry? on 22:36 - Oct 21 with 1637 views | 1JD |
| Is this on Nourry? on 22:07 - Oct 21 by daveB |
I think he's an easy fall guy but the recruitment at QPR has been really poor for years and he's the head of it, he's had more than enough opportunities to get this right.
What always annoys me at QPR is how when we make a good signing you can't move for people claiming credit. everyone from the dinner lady up claimed credit for Eze. Belk was all over Kenneth Paal was all my idea when we liked Paal but no one has been keen to take responsibility for Taylor Richards for example.
I might be completely wrong on Belk but I just look at the profile of signings we made this summer and it's eerily similar to 2015/16 and he's the link between those 2 summers
It's not cheap gambles either. Celar and Madsen have cost a lot of money
[Post edited 21 Oct 22:10]
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I don’t disagree that Belk has been here a while, and transfers have largely been hit and miss.
But almost all the direction on transfer strategy is driven by the DOF, formerly Les, now Nourry.
The direction and decision to;
- Shift from UK markets (Ireland, Scotland, England, league 1, 2, and premier league 2) and shop in European markets only
- Bring in all 10 x new players with no championship experience between them
- Identify players through data and statistics
Is entirely driven by Nourry. He set the above transfer strategy, and Belk executed.
The DOF is also the one who is signing off on 5-year contracts for Madsen, to the tune of multiple millions in transfer fee. And low-balling youngsters without any real regard for their talent and future worth.
So, I’m struggling a bit with Belks true role in all of this. But one of two things will happen, he will be thrown under the bus by Nourry. And/or Nourry will separate his role into CEO and DOF, with a new hire, claiming it was all part of the plan. | | | |
| Is this on Nourry? on 22:45 - Oct 21 with 1599 views | JamesB1979 |
| Is this on Nourry? on 22:36 - Oct 21 by 1JD |
I don’t disagree that Belk has been here a while, and transfers have largely been hit and miss.
But almost all the direction on transfer strategy is driven by the DOF, formerly Les, now Nourry.
The direction and decision to;
- Shift from UK markets (Ireland, Scotland, England, league 1, 2, and premier league 2) and shop in European markets only
- Bring in all 10 x new players with no championship experience between them
- Identify players through data and statistics
Is entirely driven by Nourry. He set the above transfer strategy, and Belk executed.
The DOF is also the one who is signing off on 5-year contracts for Madsen, to the tune of multiple millions in transfer fee. And low-balling youngsters without any real regard for their talent and future worth.
So, I’m struggling a bit with Belks true role in all of this. But one of two things will happen, he will be thrown under the bus by Nourry. And/or Nourry will separate his role into CEO and DOF, with a new hire, claiming it was all part of the plan. |
You can be given direction but if your job is to pick out good players to sign and the ones you suggest aren’t good, that’s down to you, not the “direction” you’ve been given. | | | |
| Is this on Nourry? on 22:48 - Oct 21 with 1567 views | 1JD |
| Is this on Nourry? on 22:45 - Oct 21 by JamesB1979 |
You can be given direction but if your job is to pick out good players to sign and the ones you suggest aren’t good, that’s down to you, not the “direction” you’ve been given. |
That is true. But how do you know Belk did not suggest other players and was over-ruled? | | | |
| Is this on Nourry? on 23:17 - Oct 21 with 1426 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Is this on Nourry? on 21:21 - Oct 21 by Wilkinswatercarrier |
So Nourry will pass the buck onto Belk? What a cowardly little weasel.
Belk didn't just go out and sign those players himself. He would have been given parameters by Nourry.
Does Nourry really think we are that fcking stupid? |
Well I think we can all agree it looks like the recruitment has been sh1t.
Based on that I would have the Head Of Recruitment as having the main responsibly for starters.
Unless you are someone like 1JD who blames Nourry for every bad thing in the world that’s ever happened. |  | | |
| Is this on Nourry? on 23:17 - Oct 21 with 1429 views | JamesB1979 |
| Is this on Nourry? on 22:48 - Oct 21 by 1JD |
That is true. But how do you know Belk did not suggest other players and was over-ruled? |
I’m just guessing but if they are overlooked, he’ll suggest another player. Surely they are all his recommendations one way or another? Otherwise, what’s his job | | | |
| Is this on Nourry? on 23:20 - Oct 21 with 1423 views | connell10 |
| Is this on Nourry? on 08:10 - Oct 20 by davman |
It is this.
The club has been utterly inept since the fans drove Richard Thompson out. Crap leadership, no strategy, crap appointments until Briatore lucked out on Warnock. Face it, apart from some Holloway magic from when the club was on its knees, a Warnock masterclass for one season after disaster after disaster when we had money and an excessively expensively assembled squad leading to a playoff win, we have been utterly shite.
...and on this latest pile of crap, the owners have run away, Dougie Howser MD shows his face once in a while to take soft questions, the recruitment team buys "ballers" and not footballers, the manager thinks that we can chase a game without Dembele or Chair on the pitch and best of all the players have no urgency, no commitment and a stunning lack of ability.
Fault is everywhere and especially yesterday.
We lost because Morgan Fox gave away two goals. They created very, very little apart from that. We lost because Illias Chair misses a simple one on one. We lost because the team that finished that game could not score in a brothel with £1000 in their pocket.
Why JCS did not play, I'll never know. If he can get on the bench, surely he can start?
Nardi, Frey and Dembele can have their heads up, the rest of them well off the standard. Special mention to Paal, Smyth and Fox though. Garbage the three of them. The big failing of our club is that they HAVE to play; who else do we have? [Post edited 20 Oct 8:28]
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Sorry Dickie Thompson was a total kunt !! |  |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| Is this on Nourry? on 23:49 - Oct 21 with 1311 views | daveB |
| Is this on Nourry? on 22:34 - Oct 21 by baz_qpr |
The remit is to create value right, not necessarily have a top 10 side full of championship players in their late 20's early 30's. Problem is now the squad is unbalanced. I dont think the problem is who we recruited its who we did not recruit and having key injuries to Colback, Chair, JCS and Morrison as the back up to JCS. So we've thrown these young players straight into the lions den. We are 3 players short IMHO CB, CM and CF where we need Championship experience.
Any frees still available we should be looking at ? |
Where QPR have gone very wrong imo is that the remit should be how do we get the best team possible to finish as high in the table as we can for this season. That should be the priority every season and in doing that look to add 1 or 2 players every window who you can develop into sellable assets but in truth they only go for big money if the team does very well, it is very rare that anyone is going to spend big money on a player who finishes in the bottom 6 every year.
Every year QPR seem to go with the idea that we'll probably be shit but we might be able to sell one of these for a few quid | | | |
| Is this on Nourry? on 01:08 - Oct 22 with 1224 views | rbee |
| Is this on Nourry? on 22:03 - Oct 21 by Benny_the_Ball |
It's not that. You're still missing the point so please allow me to explain.
Some feel that the current malaise is down to the owners because, whilst benevolent, over the years they've proven themselves inept at running QPR. For more than a decade now they've made one poor decision after another. Some of these decisions, like hiring an inexperienced DOF in Les, or recruiting a young CEO with no credentials in Christian, were just obviously bonkers. No self-respecting business would or should consider hiring senior directors with zero experience or expertise. It should be no different at QPR but, not for the first time, our owners think it's ok to have someone learning in a C' level role. IMHO, this demonstrates a lack of care and respect for the club and its traditions.
Now, you appear to be defending the owners on this point (which, of course, is your prerogative) and you asked LFW comrades what they would have Ruben do. Several erudite posters have given you the answer - if Ruben feels incapable of running the club himself then he should at least put it in the care of senior directors with relevant experience and a track record of success in the same roles. Not a junior consultant barely out of nappies just because he's a walking wordsmith.
We are QPR. A professional association football club with a rich history stretching back 142 years currently plying its trade in the second tier of an elite football country. As a professional organisation of such standing, we deserve to be run professionally by seasoned professionals with commensurate experience. Anything less, IMHO, is a dereliction of duty. |
I am all too aware that our owners have made many mistakes.
I am not defending our owners. I am only defending Ruben.
You say it yourself ''For more than a decade now they've made one poor decision after another.''
Ruben has not been around for more than a decade. The real damage to our club was done by Fernandes the impact of which we still feel today. There is a clear dividing line, the Fernandes era and the Ruben era. I get irrationally angry when Ruben is blamed for Fernandes huge errors when he wasn't even around or was a minority shareholder.
Judge Ruben on his era only bearing in mind he is operating within the Profit and Sustainability Regulations unlike his predecessor. Ruben has made mistakes; he would be the first to admit that. He was invited in to the club as in investor by his friend Fernandes and ended up owning the club which he wouldn't have envisaged or wanted in my opinion. If he could sell the club tomorrow I am sure he would gladly do so but nobody wants it. Luckily for us he keeps us going.
The vast majority were singing Christian Nourry’s praises in May when we avoided relegation and were nearly top of the form table. He offloaded unwanted players and clawed cash in from everywhere to allow for a good January transfer window.
As our form has flipped, with pretty much the same squad, our summer transfer window very poor and we sit bottom of the table fans are angry looking for someone to blame.
I am not defending Nourry or his appointment but taking the pragmatic view, after years of relative failure Ruben opted for a different approach. You have to assume that Ruben's fellow directors were in agreement and that he sought other advice.
We have no choice but wait until January and see if we can recover from this. If we don't then that is ultimately down to Ruben and he will know that along with everyone else.
You quite rightly say ''we deserve to be run professionally by seasoned professionals with commensurate experience.'' Every fan would love our club to be run the way that you describe it but if we cannot compete with the likes of Bristol City, Blackburn and Preston in the player transfer market what makes you think that we can compete in the 'senior directors with relevant experience' market. I would suggest that such individuals are few and far between even more so in The Championship. Hoos did a good job in my opinion and it is too early to judge Nourry. I am not disagreeing with you but highlighting a few reasons why we are not currently in that position and that is without mentioning budget constraints, we have to cut our cloth.
Ruben has made mistakes and will make some more but he is not leading us down the same path as the likes of Derby and Reading.
On the DOF/Football side of things Neil Warnock, Mark Warburton etc have as much experience in a Director of Football role as Sir Les did when he was appointed. The majority of candidates would be novices. | | | |
| Is this on Nourry? on 08:16 - Oct 22 with 1115 views | 1JD |
| Is this on Nourry? on 23:17 - Oct 21 by Ned_Kennedys |
Well I think we can all agree it looks like the recruitment has been sh1t.
Based on that I would have the Head Of Recruitment as having the main responsibly for starters.
Unless you are someone like 1JD who blames Nourry for every bad thing in the world that’s ever happened. |
We are sitting bottom of the league and our transfer strategy this summer has been nothing short of shocking. The first season in many a season where we actually had the luxury of spending money again. And we go and spunk 6m on absolute dross. The key decisions that Nourry needed to get right, he got wrong. Not to mention how fans - paying customers - are now treated as second class citizens and allowed to know precisely nothing anymore. Yet you appear to be Nourrys biggest defendant, and down vote every single Nourry post of mine. It’s as if you have some kind of personal interest, which is now becoming more than a little bit odd. Are you actually Mr Nourry? [Post edited 22 Oct 8:21]
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| Is this on Nourry? on 08:23 - Oct 22 with 1069 views | lassel |
The one thing I think it is important to acknowledge is that Belk and his team don’t just put up one name when looking at signings, they provide a list of players and the one we end up with depends on other factors, not least the price the selling club will accept. We have no way obviously of knowing which of these players were the top choice and who was 2/3/4/5 on the list.
That said, with how many are in that team you have to ask the question as to how Celar was on the list as a lone striker, how Madsen was on the list in a midfield 2 or as a ‘10’.
It’s one of the key peculiarities of QPR that we spend so much money behind the scenes to be so desperately mediocre | | | |
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