| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? 11:55 - Apr 23 with 8356 views | saint901 |
The UK welcomed around 37.000 immigrants last year who did not have permission to be here.
Rishi and cronies want to send around 2,000 to Rwanda - a year - as a "deterrent".
In order to do so he and his whips bullied and arguably overrode the safeguards built into our democratic system. His Gov't ignored Parliament and bulldozed this through.
At the risk of triggering the latent racists among us and in the hope of sparking a genuine debate, is this the right answer? Were the means to achieve that answer justified by the ends? What will be the next Gov't (Tory Party) v Parliament issue be? |  | | |  |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 12:44 - Apr 23 with 6352 views | City_boy |
We have rules to enter our country legitimately and the Government has to do something about the illegal entries. Many of those entering are 'economic' migrants and not fleeing persecution.
If they are genuine migrants, I hope their applications are dealt with promptly and fairly.
If, as many of them claim, that they have been persecuted, and their lives were at risk, surely they would be happy to have reached a safe country like France, (or any other central European county they have travelled through ? ) Why would they then put their lives at risk again to cross the Channel from a safe country in an overloaded dingy ?
To answer your question, I do think this is a last throw of the dice by the Tories to address immigration and sway some voters, as this is still a hot topic ahead of the general election. [Post edited 23 Apr 12:47]
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| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 13:09 - Apr 23 with 6321 views | dirk_doone |
The genuine solution to the problem was EU membership. Before Brexit, we were returning up to 15,000 illegal immigrants a year to the EU countries where they first entered. As we're no longer EU members, we can't do that any more. Even though the number of arrivals is much greater now, we'll never send anywhere near that many to Rwanda or anywhere else.
On top of that, of course, illegal immigration has increased massively since Brexit because as one migrant said on the TV news, if he sought asylum in an EU country, he'd be returned to the first country where he entered the EU and as that was in Eastern Europe, they'd just push him over the border out of the EU altogether. [Post edited 23 Apr 13:15]
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| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 13:41 - Apr 23 with 6263 views | 1885_SFC |
It's a Europe-wide problem I'm afraid and one that won't be fixed anytime soon.
Germany has more illegal immigrants than anywhere else & Chancellor Olaf Scholz said recently, "We must finally deport on a grand scale those who have no right to stay in Germany."
At least Rishi and Co are trying to do something about it. We can't continue as we are. |  |
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| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 14:30 - Apr 23 with 6235 views | saint901 |
Is "Rishi doing something about it.." worth removing some of the safeguards to our democratic system?
Was it in fact the "system" that prevented him taking action and therefore he's justified in forcing through what some would claim is an inhumane law (and others may see as justified)?
Many of these migrants have come from places which require a certain determination and courage to escape from. Unless such people are securely held the moment they set foot on a Kent beach, I suspect that the authorities will never see them again. Ergo the risk of a flight to Rwanda is vanishingly small and not going to have any deterrent effect.
For the small percentage who may be at risk of a flight out of the UK, there is always Sue, Grabbit and Runne Solicitors, willing to take the fees to defend them.
I also guarantee that the activist groups will mount yet more legal challenges before a plane leaves.
Is this not Rishi pandering to the xenophobe in all of us to rescue a few seats in what will be a massacre should he ever have the courage to ask the nation to judge him? | | | |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 15:08 - Apr 23 with 6209 views | solent_toffee |
Immigration policy in this country has never been good. The Immigration Acts of the nineties were failures and this current attempt is nothing but a sensational costly gimmick to try to win votes at the general election this year.
There’s always going to be immigration and there sadly will always be people trying to come to safe countries to claim asylum due to war and there will always be people wanting to come to the country for economic reasons.
There’s currently a massive backlog of cases to be processed, is that because of the numbers or because of the poor processes and lack of investment into getting it done properly? I’m guessing that having an appropriately funded sensible immigration process doesn’t make great news and doesn’t win votes. | | | |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 15:39 - Apr 23 with 6166 views | Heisenberg |
Around 45,000 people tried to come into the country on boats and other transport last year. It is expected to rise this year. Sending a few people at massive expense to Rwanda is a gimmick aimed at appeasing the far right and the Mail and Express readers. A well resourced processing system would be far more effective alongside agreements with European countries. If only there was an organisation we could be at the centre of !!
Maybe look at the 750,000 legal immigrants entering the UK last year. This is unsustainable and needs addressing in a rational manner. Something our politicians are incapable of. |  |
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| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 15:59 - Apr 23 with 6148 views | kingslandstand1 |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 12:44 - Apr 23 by City_boy |
We have rules to enter our country legitimately and the Government has to do something about the illegal entries. Many of those entering are 'economic' migrants and not fleeing persecution.
If they are genuine migrants, I hope their applications are dealt with promptly and fairly.
If, as many of them claim, that they have been persecuted, and their lives were at risk, surely they would be happy to have reached a safe country like France, (or any other central European county they have travelled through ? ) Why would they then put their lives at risk again to cross the Channel from a safe country in an overloaded dingy ?
To answer your question, I do think this is a last throw of the dice by the Tories to address immigration and sway some voters, as this is still a hot topic ahead of the general election. [Post edited 23 Apr 12:47]
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"Why would they then put their lives at risk again to cross the Channel from a safe country in an overloaded dingy ?"
Unfortunately as we know we have become the land of give away by successive governments and the do gooders would ather put these in front of our own needy's, and there are a lot of those. Example on radio today was a young woman in dire need of somewhere to live for whatver reason but local council said no 'cos 140 migrants had to be found somehere to live!
As you have said, they pass through so many "safe" countries so why not stay there? But more often than not, those countries look after their own first
Biggest problem is establishing those that ARE being persecuted and those that are not |  | | |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 18:45 - Apr 23 with 6015 views | saintmark1976 |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 15:59 - Apr 23 by kingslandstand1 |
"Why would they then put their lives at risk again to cross the Channel from a safe country in an overloaded dingy ?"
Unfortunately as we know we have become the land of give away by successive governments and the do gooders would ather put these in front of our own needy's, and there are a lot of those. Example on radio today was a young woman in dire need of somewhere to live for whatver reason but local council said no 'cos 140 migrants had to be found somehere to live!
As you have said, they pass through so many "safe" countries so why not stay there? But more often than not, those countries look after their own first
Biggest problem is establishing those that ARE being persecuted and those that are not |
Ever heard of smoke and mirrors kingslandstand01 ?
Whilst you are wittering on about a relative small number of people know as “boat people” hundreds of thousands of people are coming into the country legally. Presumably you have no problem with them having housing or do you think that they bring their houses with them ?
I’m reminded of the old adage “ Never let the facts get in the way of a good story”. | |
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| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 19:33 - Apr 23 with 5974 views | cocklebreath |
It’s desperate and an absolute waste of time and money, as soon as labour batter the slimy coonts in the election they’ll bin it. |  |
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| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 08:58 - Apr 24 with 5847 views | saint901 |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 19:33 - Apr 23 by cocklebreath |
It’s desperate and an absolute waste of time and money, as soon as labour batter the slimy coonts in the election they’ll bin it. |
and replace it with what?
Just because beige Kier and leftie Angela get elected will not stop people trying to get here. | | | |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 09:36 - Apr 24 with 5812 views | cocklebreath |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 08:58 - Apr 24 by saint901 |
and replace it with what?
Just because beige Kier and leftie Angela get elected will not stop people trying to get here. |
I’m fully aware of that. I’m sure they’ll come up with something not quite as ridiculous | |
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| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 09:40 - Apr 24 with 5809 views | cocklebreath |
It would help if the French police didn’t just stand by and let the boats leave like yesterday when 5 people died, totally avoidable. | |
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| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 13:07 - Apr 25 with 5615 views | franniesTache |
I actually had some time to read the "Rwanda bill" and i don't think a lot of people realise that there's an article, 19, in it that says the for each person sent via flights the uk must accept refugees the other way.
So this is nothing more than an act of political posturing, one that has seen our government decide to over ride the highest court in our country to do it.
It really is a low point in this country's history
https://assets.publishing.service.g...glish_-_Formatted__5_Dec_23__-_UK_VERSION. |  | | |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 16:39 - Apr 25 with 5574 views | kentsouthampton |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 13:07 - Apr 25 by franniesTache |
I actually had some time to read the "Rwanda bill" and i don't think a lot of people realise that there's an article, 19, in it that says the for each person sent via flights the uk must accept refugees the other way.
So this is nothing more than an act of political posturing, one that has seen our government decide to over ride the highest court in our country to do it.
It really is a low point in this country's history
https://assets.publishing.service.g...glish_-_Formatted__5_Dec_23__-_UK_VERSION. |
Yep, for every one we send them they send us a disabled one. |  | | |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 09:22 - Apr 27 with 5454 views | dirk_doone |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 13:07 - Apr 25 by franniesTache |
I actually had some time to read the "Rwanda bill" and i don't think a lot of people realise that there's an article, 19, in it that says the for each person sent via flights the uk must accept refugees the other way.
So this is nothing more than an act of political posturing, one that has seen our government decide to over ride the highest court in our country to do it.
It really is a low point in this country's history
https://assets.publishing.service.g...glish_-_Formatted__5_Dec_23__-_UK_VERSION. |
Does that mean we'll just be swapping our asylum seekers for theirs or does it mean they will send us an equivalent number of Rwandans they want to get rid of? | |
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| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 10:09 - Apr 27 with 5436 views | Ifonly |
Keir Starmer has launched his first major policy initiative to take the nation's attention away from Tory policies. He said:
"(Coventry's goal) is a really well-worked goal, and it is ruled out because there is what, a toenail of difference between the attacker and the defender? Don’t tell me a toenail gives you an advantage in football. I would change the offside rule. I would not change VAR. I would change the offside rule to make it more beneficial for the attacking team.”
If Rishi now comes out with a policy to change VAR there will be clear blue water between Labour and the Tories. This could be where the election is won and lost. | | | |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 13:06 - Apr 27 with 5416 views | kentsouthampton |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 09:22 - Apr 27 by dirk_doone |
Does that mean we'll just be swapping our asylum seekers for theirs or does it mean they will send us an equivalent number of Rwandans they want to get rid of? |
According to that we get a disabled/special needs asylum seeker in return for each one they take, bargain. | | | |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 13:20 - Apr 27 with 5404 views | dirk_doone |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 13:06 - Apr 27 by kentsouthampton |
According to that we get a disabled/special needs asylum seeker in return for each one they take, bargain. |
They'll need special accommodation and place an extra strain on the NHS. This farcical Rwandan scheme is going to cost an absolute fortune. To think, the French offered to let the UK have a processing centre for asylum seekers on the French coast and our government turned it down because they thought a 'stop the boats' campaign would win them votes. [Post edited 27 Apr 13:21]
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| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 20:58 - Apr 27 with 5270 views | saintmark1976 |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 13:20 - Apr 27 by dirk_doone |
They'll need special accommodation and place an extra strain on the NHS. This farcical Rwandan scheme is going to cost an absolute fortune. To think, the French offered to let the UK have a processing centre for asylum seekers on the French coast and our government turned it down because they thought a 'stop the boats' campaign would win them votes. [Post edited 27 Apr 13:21]
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That’s the problem though dirk doone they can’t think, witness the empty suit Tory MP on BBC Question Time this past Thursday.
The woman who chairs the event had to explain to him that Rwanda and The Democratic Republic of Congo were in fact two separate countries.
Worryingly, or though perhaps not surprisingly, the clown was introduced as the current Government minister responsible for policing. | |
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| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 10:29 - Apr 28 with 5155 views | kentsouthampton |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 20:58 - Apr 27 by saintmark1976 |
That’s the problem though dirk doone they can’t think, witness the empty suit Tory MP on BBC Question Time this past Thursday.
The woman who chairs the event had to explain to him that Rwanda and The Democratic Republic of Congo were in fact two separate countries.
Worryingly, or though perhaps not surprisingly, the clown was introduced as the current Government minister responsible for policing. |
That was so funny, Chris Philp has always been as thick as mince. Since the clown threw everyone sensible out of the Tory party so as not to upstage him this is what the country is left with, idiots running it. | | | |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 17:47 - Apr 28 with 5076 views | saintmark1976 |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 10:29 - Apr 28 by kentsouthampton |
That was so funny, Chris Philp has always been as thick as mince. Since the clown threw everyone sensible out of the Tory party so as not to upstage him this is what the country is left with, idiots running it. |
Not content with him making a complete doughnut of himself on Thursday the Tories put him up to represent them on this Sunday’s 09.00 political programme. Christ on a bike, if he is the best that they have to offer it really isn’t difficult to see why they are 20 odd points behind in the polls is it? | |
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| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 22:21 - Apr 28 with 5019 views | Bazza |
Don’t see anyone here having a realistic plan to deal with the huge influx of asylum seekers! | | | |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 23:24 - Apr 28 with 4982 views | saintmark1976 |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 22:21 - Apr 28 by Bazza |
Don’t see anyone here having a realistic plan to deal with the huge influx of asylum seekers! |
Bazza, if you refer to the latest figures from The Office of National Statistics for the year ending June 2023 you will find that 672000 more people legally entered the UK than left it during that year.
What you described as a huge influx of asylum seekers ( I assume you refer to boat people ? ) is minuscule in comparison.
Out of interest, are you of the opinion that immigration to the UK is a problem generally or is your concern restricted solely to asylum seekers ? I ask because should it be legal immigrants you are worried about then the current Government don’t appear to be too bothered. Indeed, if they were then perhaps they would have done something to limit the 672000 who came legally ? | |
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| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 09:15 - Apr 29 with 4897 views | dirk_doone |
| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 23:24 - Apr 28 by saintmark1976 |
Bazza, if you refer to the latest figures from The Office of National Statistics for the year ending June 2023 you will find that 672000 more people legally entered the UK than left it during that year.
What you described as a huge influx of asylum seekers ( I assume you refer to boat people ? ) is minuscule in comparison.
Out of interest, are you of the opinion that immigration to the UK is a problem generally or is your concern restricted solely to asylum seekers ? I ask because should it be legal immigrants you are worried about then the current Government don’t appear to be too bothered. Indeed, if they were then perhaps they would have done something to limit the 672000 who came legally ? |
Part of the hidden agenda of Brexit appears to have been to replace EU workers in areas like the NHS and residential care homes with cheaper workers from Africa and Asia. Hence the current NHS recruitment campaigns in Nigeria and Pakistan. More will be needed to take care of the physically and mentally disabled people we are going to bring in from Rwanda. [Post edited 29 Apr 9:18]
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| Desperate Tories - or tactical masterstroke? on 16:50 - May 1 with 4696 views | saint901 |
Genuine question.
If we get a boatload of immigrants with no permission arriving from France, why can we not take them back on the next ferry and drop them back in Calais? | | | |
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