| Leyton Orient (a) match thread 15:51 - Feb 14 with 23348 views | Sheffdale |
I have a question for iFollow users. I am going to be late home this evening but if I buy a video pass, can I switch on, 'rewind' and watch as if live when I get in? I've emailed iFollow support but as ever I fully expect the better and quicker answer from this board.
Edit: iFollow confirm that I can go back to the match start once I log on, so no peeking from me at this forum this evening, must also avoid Twitter and on the off chance we get three points then I should pass on News at Ten headlines..... [Post edited 14 Feb 2023 17:22]
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| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 13:02 - Feb 15 with 2886 views | TVOS1907 |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 11:03 - Feb 15 by HullDale |
The starting point for whoever is manager next season is:
GK Richard O'Donnell - Summer 2024
RB/CB Toby Mullarkey - Summer 2024
CB Ethan Ebanks-Landell - Summer 2024
CB Max Taylor - Summer 2024
LCB Cameron John - Summer 2024
CM James Ball - Summer 2024
AM Abraham Odoh - Summer 2024
CF Ian Henderson - Summer 2023*
CF Tahvon Campbell - Summer 2024
CF Devante Rodney - Summer 2024
*maybe 2024 if Hendo has triggered a one year extension based on appearances. |
I heard someone say last night that Henderson's extension had already been triggered. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 13:03 - Feb 15 with 2872 views | electricblue |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 12:49 - Feb 15 by davidab2202 |
Mention of Rodney--has he left the building ,injured or perhaps concentrating on getting up to speed on a Monday or Thursday? |
Rather have Trigger than Rodney in the team... |  |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 13:06 - Feb 15 with 2851 views | D_Alien |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 13:02 - Feb 15 by TVOS1907 |
I heard someone say last night that Henderson's extension had already been triggered. |
Other contract extensions should come with a trigger warning |  |
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| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 15:38 - Feb 15 with 2543 views | AtThePeake |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 21:03 - Feb 14 by Shun |
2 in 2 for Sinclair at Altrincham. |
I'd forgotten about this, but at the Fans Forum last week when Bentley was asked about Odoh's goals/assists record, he said that part of the reason Odoh was playing was because nobody else in the squad had great goals and assist records either.
Well, Sinclair was averaging a goal every 311 minutes this season for us even before his 2 in 2 for Alty. By no means is that fantastic, but it's a damn sight better than 1853 minutes with no goals or assists. |  |
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| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 15:43 - Feb 15 with 2512 views | AtThePeake |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 10:50 - Feb 15 by HullDale |
Last night 5 of the 11 and 7 of the 18 were Bentley signings - if Adshead was available that would've likely been 6 and 8.
The rationale that this isn't Bentley's squad is wearing thin for me now - he has recruited players and had around 32 games and 6 months to fix the others. How many players have we realistically seen 6 months' worth of improvement from in that time?
Askey was rumoured to be linked with us shortly before he left York, and depending who you listen to turned us down because of budget, facilities, the squad or a mixture of all three. Can we realistically say (with the exception of facilities) we would be a more attractive proposition now than we were in August? I don't know if we will have paid Stockdale or Shan off less than planned because they got new roles, but we're likely to need to pay off Bentley & Chadwick if we make a change and that eats into an already diminishing budget. |
Have to agree re: Bentley signings. We can keep telling ourselves the damage was done earlier in the season if we want to absolve Bentley of blame and give ourselves hope and make excuses for him cause he's a nice bloke but the fact remains that we continue to lose almost every game. This isn't just on Stockdale anymore.
I'd love to know what people have seen to make them think he should be given a chance to rebuild in the summer. He came into the club five games into the season, not 15 or 20. He's had more than enough time to turn this around. Yes, the squad is a mess and yes, Stockdale still has to take the majority of the criticism for that, but Bentley was brought to the club with the very obvious remit of keeping us up this season and it looks like he's going to fail.
We made the mistake last summer of giving a 'nice bloke' longer in the job than he deserved because of some of the difficulties he faced. Please let's not do the same again. | |
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| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 16:14 - Feb 15 with 2387 views | D_Alien |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 15:38 - Feb 15 by AtThePeake |
I'd forgotten about this, but at the Fans Forum last week when Bentley was asked about Odoh's goals/assists record, he said that part of the reason Odoh was playing was because nobody else in the squad had great goals and assist records either.
Well, Sinclair was averaging a goal every 311 minutes this season for us even before his 2 in 2 for Alty. By no means is that fantastic, but it's a damn sight better than 1853 minutes with no goals or assists. |
As an out-and-out forward, Odoh's stats are dreadful but imo he's worth his place as a wing-back, especially with Mullarkey behind him | |
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| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 16:17 - Feb 15 with 2384 views | 442Dale |
This is why when the board were asked at the forum about whether the manager’s position would be up for review if we keep losing was not deserving of the criticism it received. It’s more about at what stage would a change be considered? If we lose the next five what would be the plan? If we are down with games to spare would it be on the agenda? I could be wrong, but maybe the question was asked to try and determine whether the board would indicate that they do and have considered all options based on results.
This is still not a “we must change manager” stance, it’s about assessing the best options for the club. |  |
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| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 16:30 - Feb 15 with 2340 views | electricblue |
So some of you want Bentley sacked along with his side kick thus heaping more debt onto the club..
Then there are new wages to be added to the wage bill..
Who in their right mind would want to come to Dale with one foot in the NL, no money, million plus a season loss and less money next season for wages etc.
A few wanted John Askey and he declinded before Bentley got the nod and then the ex manager of Crewe was mentioned and he even declined..
And now a few want Hill back (no thanks)...
Its easy to call for a manger to be sacked without thinking about the situation offinancial cost.
If Dale are relegated where does that leave the board looking for an investor.
I see it as gone all quiet about Dunphy.. | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 16:44 - Feb 15 with 2296 views | kel |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 16:30 - Feb 15 by electricblue |
So some of you want Bentley sacked along with his side kick thus heaping more debt onto the club..
Then there are new wages to be added to the wage bill..
Who in their right mind would want to come to Dale with one foot in the NL, no money, million plus a season loss and less money next season for wages etc.
A few wanted John Askey and he declinded before Bentley got the nod and then the ex manager of Crewe was mentioned and he even declined..
And now a few want Hill back (no thanks)...
Its easy to call for a manger to be sacked without thinking about the situation offinancial cost.
If Dale are relegated where does that leave the board looking for an investor.
I see it as gone all quiet about Dunphy.. |
How do you know Askey declined? |  | | |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 16:52 - Feb 15 with 2264 views | 442Dale |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 16:30 - Feb 15 by electricblue |
So some of you want Bentley sacked along with his side kick thus heaping more debt onto the club..
Then there are new wages to be added to the wage bill..
Who in their right mind would want to come to Dale with one foot in the NL, no money, million plus a season loss and less money next season for wages etc.
A few wanted John Askey and he declinded before Bentley got the nod and then the ex manager of Crewe was mentioned and he even declined..
And now a few want Hill back (no thanks)...
Its easy to call for a manger to be sacked without thinking about the situation offinancial cost.
If Dale are relegated where does that leave the board looking for an investor.
I see it as gone all quiet about Dunphy.. |
Not sure many have said for the manager to be sacked. Especially without considering the financial implications. Similarly there will be financial implications of every decision, including not making changes.
And like any job, there would be interest if it was available. Most are being very sensible and fair about this. | |
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| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 17:23 - Feb 15 with 2193 views | surb_dale |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 16:30 - Feb 15 by electricblue |
So some of you want Bentley sacked along with his side kick thus heaping more debt onto the club..
Then there are new wages to be added to the wage bill..
Who in their right mind would want to come to Dale with one foot in the NL, no money, million plus a season loss and less money next season for wages etc.
A few wanted John Askey and he declinded before Bentley got the nod and then the ex manager of Crewe was mentioned and he even declined..
And now a few want Hill back (no thanks)...
Its easy to call for a manger to be sacked without thinking about the situation offinancial cost.
If Dale are relegated where does that leave the board looking for an investor.
I see it as gone all quiet about Dunphy.. |
I cant see the point of changing manager now with EBJ having signed a few of his own players in January. If we go down with games to spare or it gets to point where we become so far adrift that survival is impossible then that would be the time to consider our options with a view to going into next season in National League as prepped as we can be. Whether thats with a new manager or retaining EBJ.
EBJ was given a 2 year contract so unless there is a relegation release clause in there then its going to cost us a reasonable whack to get rid which we can ill afford at moment. But for me, even if we go down, EBJ needs to show some signs of a side forming an identity and way of playing thats going to actually win some games. At the moment i'm not seeing any signs of that.
- Were still poor defending set pieces
- By far weakest area of the squad (midfield) hasnt been addressed in the window and is arguably weaker having released Malley and allowed Brierley to trial elsewhere. Sounds like this wasnt for the want of trying but ultimately players didnt see us and the manager as a tempting prospect. How many players did Hill sign that said they signed because of the manager. Quite a few from recollection.
- We have no threat from attacking set pieces. Not one defender has mustered a goal this season in all competitions. Why is that? Poor delivery? Not winning many corners/free kicks? No desire for players to attack the ball and potentially get hurt? We have a number of players over 6 foot so lack of height isnt a reason.
- Poor substitutions and lack of positivity. At Orient we left it to 85th minute to make an attacking change when losing.
If there is no signs of improvement on whats been served up so far then we should look to get rid and start afresh. | | | |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 17:27 - Feb 15 with 2169 views | KnavesmireBob |
Another really good and balanced thread. The moment my heart sank this season was listening to EBJ's interview (BBC Radio Manchester?) a few months back when he was reflecting on his recruitment process. Maybe wasn't a true representation but from memory it was along these lines - enquiry to the club from his agent. Off site interview with Simon and George a day or so later. Job offer the day after that.
I'm a clueless monkey in almost all facets of life but this is my work world and that's not a fit for purpose recruitment process in 2023. Until we address this we'll keep finding ourselves back here.
I'm in a different part of the sports industry but almost all my senior placements come from proactive talent mapping and headhunting, rather than inbound approaches from people out of work. We have limited money and resources as a club but we also have some passionate fans with encyclopedic knowledge of the football pyramid in the levels which we operate, who I suspect would consider it an honour to be commissioned pro bono on a 1st team manager talent ID project, such is its importance to our future. For what it's worth, I'd love such a project to include female management talent too.
And then to the interview process itself, when he hired him Simon talked a lot about Jim as a culture fit. Culture fit to RAFC and our values is great, but more important is culture fit to a couple of dozen Gen Z footballers from very different cultural backgrounds, and the ability to turn them into a band of brothers that will put their hand in the fire for each other all season long. If that means we have to hire a bit of a whopper but with a motivational midas touch then so be it, we've done it before to glorious effect. How we reveal those characteristics alongside game time tactical acumen in a robust interview process is absolutely crucial.
I'd love to be proven wrong and haven't yet given up hope, but as much as I like the guy it's looking like Jim isn't the answer long term. When the time comes to make a change, time is always the one precious commodity we don't have. We've talked a lot over the years about how we should have fixed the roof while the sun was shining. To me one of the most critical things for us as a club right now is what are we doing to proactively identify our potential next manager, and when that time comes what is our process to maximise the chance of them becoming our next Keith Hill. | | | |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 17:58 - Feb 15 with 2087 views | electricblue |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 16:44 - Feb 15 by kel |
How do you know Askey declined? |
I'm sure it was mentioned in the topic about who the board should be looking at after RS and JS where sacked.... | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 18:10 - Feb 15 with 2036 views | NorthernDale |
Yes, 5 of the starting 11 was Bentley signings and they are generally good players, the 2 on the bench are indifferent signings to be honest, but the 5 cannot carry the others, who may be less then committed.
Next season Squad.
GK - Richard O'Donnell - summer 2024
RB/CB - Toby Mullarkey - Summer 2024
CB - Ethan Ebanks-Landell - Summer 2024
CB - Max Taylor - Summer 2024
*L/CB - Cameron John - Summer 2024 (I think Bentley may seek to offload him)
RB/CB - Sam Graham (Offer him a new contract)
RB/CB - Rhys Bennett (Offer him a new contract)
*CM - James Ball - Summer 2024 (potentially offload him)
W - Abraham Odoh - Summer 2024
W/M - Danny Lloyd (offer him a new contract)
CM - Liam Kelly (offer him a new contract
- a potentially decent squad, if we can get other players in, especially in midfield, were we have been lacking all season in terms of quality.
CF - Ian Henderson - Summer 2023 (hopefully keep for next season)
CF - Tahvon Campbell - Summer 2024
CF - Devante Rodney - Summer 2024
CF - Tyrese Sinclair - Summer 2024 | | | |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 18:17 - Feb 15 with 2006 views | kel |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 17:58 - Feb 15 by electricblue |
I'm sure it was mentioned in the topic about who the board should be looking at after RS and JS where sacked.... |
Must be correct then. Was he actually offered the job do you know? | | | |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 18:25 - Feb 15 with 1980 views | Shun |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 12:02 - Feb 15 by Plattyswrinklynuts |
Don’t think a player that has played in a team that’s been relegated from lg2 to the national league will be snowed under with offers to be honest!! |
I’m sure he’ll have a bit of interest. It’s a tactic Hill used to great effect with us (Vincenti, Lancashire, etc.). |  | | |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 19:00 - Feb 15 with 1884 views | electricblue |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 18:17 - Feb 15 by kel |
Must be correct then. Was he actually offered the job do you know? |
No I dont but the general consensus was that he turned it down....
Might be a different proposition now he is unemployed.... | |
| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 19:53 - Feb 15 with 1759 views | kel |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 19:00 - Feb 15 by electricblue |
No I dont but the general consensus was that he turned it down....
Might be a different proposition now he is unemployed.... |
Ah, ok. | | | |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 20:06 - Feb 15 with 1731 views | TVOS1907 |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 18:17 - Feb 15 by kel |
Must be correct then. Was he actually offered the job do you know? |
Maybe his brother or his West Ham mate told him................. | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 20:20 - Feb 15 with 1659 views | 49thseason |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 17:27 - Feb 15 by KnavesmireBob |
Another really good and balanced thread. The moment my heart sank this season was listening to EBJ's interview (BBC Radio Manchester?) a few months back when he was reflecting on his recruitment process. Maybe wasn't a true representation but from memory it was along these lines - enquiry to the club from his agent. Off site interview with Simon and George a day or so later. Job offer the day after that.
I'm a clueless monkey in almost all facets of life but this is my work world and that's not a fit for purpose recruitment process in 2023. Until we address this we'll keep finding ourselves back here.
I'm in a different part of the sports industry but almost all my senior placements come from proactive talent mapping and headhunting, rather than inbound approaches from people out of work. We have limited money and resources as a club but we also have some passionate fans with encyclopedic knowledge of the football pyramid in the levels which we operate, who I suspect would consider it an honour to be commissioned pro bono on a 1st team manager talent ID project, such is its importance to our future. For what it's worth, I'd love such a project to include female management talent too.
And then to the interview process itself, when he hired him Simon talked a lot about Jim as a culture fit. Culture fit to RAFC and our values is great, but more important is culture fit to a couple of dozen Gen Z footballers from very different cultural backgrounds, and the ability to turn them into a band of brothers that will put their hand in the fire for each other all season long. If that means we have to hire a bit of a whopper but with a motivational midas touch then so be it, we've done it before to glorious effect. How we reveal those characteristics alongside game time tactical acumen in a robust interview process is absolutely crucial.
I'd love to be proven wrong and haven't yet given up hope, but as much as I like the guy it's looking like Jim isn't the answer long term. When the time comes to make a change, time is always the one precious commodity we don't have. We've talked a lot over the years about how we should have fixed the roof while the sun was shining. To me one of the most critical things for us as a club right now is what are we doing to proactively identify our potential next manager, and when that time comes what is our process to maximise the chance of them becoming our next Keith Hill. |
An interesting post. You wonder how much interviewing SG and GD have done in the past or was it a case of Hobsons choice?
The Managers job is the one job at the club which has the potential to make or break us, I find it bemusing that they didn't ask someone from your sort of background to help out, I guess its another aspect of the Volunteer Army... having a skills list of people who are happy to help solve the problems...
To be honest I don't know where we go next. the usual suspects probably would turn up in a trawl of available candidates, but I for one would be in favour of casting the net much wider next time, no more former players who have done their badges and ultimately only know what they have experienced and what FIFA expects them to know. No older "safe hands". We need a revolution here not just moving the deckchairs on the deck of the Titanic. If we are relegated, I think I would rather go for glory than a gentle slide into oblivion. Lets be the fittest team, lets play pacey football and aim to score lots of goals,
I would much rather try to find another Begara or a younger Hill someone with new ideas who isn't bogged down in the "we tried that once and it didn't work" mode. There are over 800 Universities in the US playing "soccer" maybe we should set up a US office and pull some of those 1000s of players, managers and coaches over to this side of the pond to give us some sort of edge. Have we fallen out with Dan Altman, he might know where to point us to?
The only certainty is we cant go another season trying not to lose more than we try to win, putting subs on too late, playing ineffective players, players out of position and so on, People don't watch football in the hope of getting a 0-0 draw, they want to see lots of goals being scored by their team, ideally winning in the process, but at least not getting beaten by a single goal every week. |  | | |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 07:33 - Feb 16 with 1377 views | James1980 |
If we go 15 games unbeaten and stay up wouldn't Bentley deserve a chance next season? | |
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| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 09:09 - Feb 16 with 1290 views | TalkingSutty |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 07:33 - Feb 16 by James1980 |
If we go 15 games unbeaten and stay up wouldn't Bentley deserve a chance next season? |
That's not going to happen James, what we have seen is about as good as it gets, both from the squad of players and the manager. Every week we think that things are going to start clicking into place and everything will be different but it never is. Easter is around the corner and results have been very consistent since last August. It's not a hard luck story. We'll get our hopes up again on Saturday and the players will let us down again, all the statistics tell you that. It's not being negative, it's being realistic. [Post edited 16 Feb 2023 11:16]
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| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 09:50 - Feb 16 with 1237 views | James1980 |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 09:09 - Feb 16 by TalkingSutty |
That's not going to happen James, what we have seen is about as good as it gets, both from the squad of players and the manager. Every week we think that things are going to start clicking into place and everything will be different but it never is. Easter is around the corner and results have been very consistent since last August. It's not a hard luck story. We'll get our hopes up again on Saturday and the players will let us down again, all the statistics tell you that. It's not being negative, it's being realistic. [Post edited 16 Feb 2023 11:16]
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OK let's say we go down but put in performances like we did against Newport for the majority of these last 15 games and at least don't go out of the football league with a whimper?
Other than not being able to afford to replace them. What situation would be seen as acceptable to retain the current management team next season? | |
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| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 10:17 - Feb 16 with 1190 views | AtThePeake |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 09:50 - Feb 16 by James1980 |
OK let's say we go down but put in performances like we did against Newport for the majority of these last 15 games and at least don't go out of the football league with a whimper?
Other than not being able to afford to replace them. What situation would be seen as acceptable to retain the current management team next season? |
What situation would be seen as acceptable to retain the current management team next season? Staying up.
He was brought in 5 games into the season. He wouldn't have taken the job on if he didn't think he could keep us up, and he wouldn't have been hired if the board didn't think he could keep us up. It wasn't like changing a manager at this stage of the season where the damage was already done and it would be a roll of the dice to see if it could kickstart a miracle - Bentley has been given plenty of time. And, as bad as Stockdale's squad is/was, it's not as if the likes of Hartlepool (who have beaten us home and away under Bentley) or Harrogate (who thumped us 1-4 at Spotland) have squads packed with quality either is it?
If we go down, he's failed and should be replaced. It really is that simple. | |
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| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 10:23 - Feb 16 with 1176 views | kel |
| Leyton Orient (a) match thread on 09:09 - Feb 16 by TalkingSutty |
That's not going to happen James, what we have seen is about as good as it gets, both from the squad of players and the manager. Every week we think that things are going to start clicking into place and everything will be different but it never is. Easter is around the corner and results have been very consistent since last August. It's not a hard luck story. We'll get our hopes up again on Saturday and the players will let us down again, all the statistics tell you that. It's not being negative, it's being realistic. [Post edited 16 Feb 2023 11:16]
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Superb post and sums up what I feel too. I said to someone last week that I get far more enjoyment watching my 7 year old play on a Saturday morning. They play for the love of the game and care more than any of our lot ever will. It’s called personal pride and this lot are shameless excuse makers. | | | |
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