| Putin 22:52 - Mar 3 with 10787 views | raynor94 |
Is it time to call his bluff, he's threatening us with nuclear war, but how much longer can we put up with what he's doing in Ukraine.
If we give him this one, what's next? |  |
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| Putin on 21:19 - Mar 9 with 1396 views | Flashberryjack |
| Putin on 17:48 - Mar 9 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
I think it would be completely obvious to anyone with functioning eyes and half a brain that the nato countries have bent over backwards to do everything to avoid a direct war. Yet there are still people who are doing all sorts of mental gymnastics to come to the conclusion that “the west” are the aggressors and Russias actions are justified. |
It was only a matter of time mate, they are just lifting their heads over the parapet tentatively waving the red flag. |  |
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| Putin on 21:55 - Mar 9 with 1345 views | Catullus |
| Putin on 17:48 - Mar 9 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
I think it would be completely obvious to anyone with functioning eyes and half a brain that the nato countries have bent over backwards to do everything to avoid a direct war. Yet there are still people who are doing all sorts of mental gymnastics to come to the conclusion that “the west” are the aggressors and Russias actions are justified. |
I won't deny the West has been up to plenty of dirty tricks, the CIA has been interfering for far too long and god knows what other countries are doing.
The fact is some people seem to believe that Russia has a lovely honest government that never interferes, never plays dirty tricks, never does anything nasty and it is all about the West and our evil ways.
The number of excuses I have seen for Putin including the Neo Nazi stuff has been astounding. This the man who has already made threats of a nuclear kind, who has bombed a maternity hospital and the so called safe corridors during a truce.
Why do people defend him? |  |
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| Putin on 22:13 - Mar 9 with 1325 views | DJack |
Most of those articles reference Putin's claim in 2007... The others offer their opinions and assumptions.
You obviously missed this bit from my post:
Mikhail Gorbachev in an interview in 2014: "The topic of 'NATO expansion' was not discussed at all, and it wasn't brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a single Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn't bring it up, either."
As per Wikki he was the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union from 1985 until 1991. He was also the country's head of state from 1988 until 1991, serving as the chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet from 1988 to 1989, chairman of the Supreme Soviet from 1989 to 1990, and president of the Soviet Union from 1990 to 1991.
SO HE WOULD KNOW AND HE SAID IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!! |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Putin on 07:08 - Mar 10 with 1282 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Putin on 22:13 - Mar 9 by DJack |
Most of those articles reference Putin's claim in 2007... The others offer their opinions and assumptions.
You obviously missed this bit from my post:
Mikhail Gorbachev in an interview in 2014: "The topic of 'NATO expansion' was not discussed at all, and it wasn't brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a single Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn't bring it up, either."
As per Wikki he was the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union from 1985 until 1991. He was also the country's head of state from 1988 until 1991, serving as the chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet from 1988 to 1989, chairman of the Supreme Soviet from 1989 to 1990, and president of the Soviet Union from 1990 to 1991.
SO HE WOULD KNOW AND HE SAID IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!! |
No one believes a word Putin says. | |
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| Putin on 08:32 - Mar 10 with 1265 views | Catullus |
| Putin on 07:08 - Mar 10 by felixstowe_jack |
No one believes a word Putin says. |
I'm not really sure that's true. There's been a few on here seemingly making excuses for him.
He's a politician, he tells lies. Nobody doubts Bojo lies, why trust Putin?
With the news the UAE is pumping more oil the price has started to drop, countries are trying to move away from relying on Russia for oil and gas, maybe our government will look again at our options. Putin may well have badly harmed Russia for decades, the West may have re-raised the iron curtain in the face of his aggression. | |
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| Putin on 09:03 - Mar 10 with 1246 views | Scotia |
| Putin on 08:32 - Mar 10 by Catullus |
I'm not really sure that's true. There's been a few on here seemingly making excuses for him.
He's a politician, he tells lies. Nobody doubts Bojo lies, why trust Putin?
With the news the UAE is pumping more oil the price has started to drop, countries are trying to move away from relying on Russia for oil and gas, maybe our government will look again at our options. Putin may well have badly harmed Russia for decades, the West may have re-raised the iron curtain in the face of his aggression. |
I'm wondering if Qatar may increase their productionof LNG and Oil? Otherwise their world cup won't be much of a success if nobody can afford to turn the TV on to watch it.
Of course Russia won't be there. | | | |
| Putin on 10:00 - Mar 10 with 1231 views | Catullus |
| Putin on 09:03 - Mar 10 by Scotia |
I'm wondering if Qatar may increase their productionof LNG and Oil? Otherwise their world cup won't be much of a success if nobody can afford to turn the TV on to watch it.
Of course Russia won't be there. |
It seems to me if the OPEC countries all fill the gap they may lock Russia out of the West almost completely and do long term damage to Russia's economy. It may hasten Putin's departure?
The price of oil won't stop people putting their tv's on, look at the dross we are fed every day but we still turn it on! I'm not a big fan of international football but I always watch the World Cup. | |
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| Putin on 10:19 - Mar 10 with 1224 views | Flynnidine_Zidownes |
It will be a moral victory to wean ourselves off the oil of a state that is aggressive, hates women and gays and regularly commits crimes against their own citizens and rely on the Middle Eastern caliphates instead. | | | |
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| Putin on 10:44 - Mar 10 with 1215 views | ItchySphincter |
| Putin on 21:55 - Mar 9 by Catullus |
I won't deny the West has been up to plenty of dirty tricks, the CIA has been interfering for far too long and god knows what other countries are doing.
The fact is some people seem to believe that Russia has a lovely honest government that never interferes, never plays dirty tricks, never does anything nasty and it is all about the West and our evil ways.
The number of excuses I have seen for Putin including the Neo Nazi stuff has been astounding. This the man who has already made threats of a nuclear kind, who has bombed a maternity hospital and the so called safe corridors during a truce.
Why do people defend him? |
Cos people are nuts. I e even seen people bandying about words like ‘communism’. Putin has nothing to do with communism. Putin is a kleptocrat and Russia has been a criminal organisation for decades. |  |
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| Putin on 14:09 - Mar 10 with 1191 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Putin on 22:13 - Mar 9 by DJack |
Most of those articles reference Putin's claim in 2007... The others offer their opinions and assumptions.
You obviously missed this bit from my post:
Mikhail Gorbachev in an interview in 2014: "The topic of 'NATO expansion' was not discussed at all, and it wasn't brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a single Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn't bring it up, either."
As per Wikki he was the General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union from 1985 until 1991. He was also the country's head of state from 1988 until 1991, serving as the chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet from 1988 to 1989, chairman of the Supreme Soviet from 1989 to 1990, and president of the Soviet Union from 1990 to 1991.
SO HE WOULD KNOW AND HE SAID IT DIDN'T HAPPEN!!! |
Well those articles about what people said, wrote in their official diaries and admitted to later.
You are correct that Mikhail Gorbachev said it didn't happen for the simple reason he wasn't present.
These were discussion groups between Baker (USA), the British, the Canadians, the Germans and the Russians & other USSR countries.
Who all admit it was said, but only in discussion, not in writing.
Perhaps you should actually read what was written. | | | |
| Putin on 22:23 - Mar 10 with 1145 views | Catullus |
| Putin on 14:09 - Mar 10 by A_Fans_Dad |
Well those articles about what people said, wrote in their official diaries and admitted to later.
You are correct that Mikhail Gorbachev said it didn't happen for the simple reason he wasn't present.
These were discussion groups between Baker (USA), the British, the Canadians, the Germans and the Russians & other USSR countries.
Who all admit it was said, but only in discussion, not in writing.
Perhaps you should actually read what was written. |
So these people discussed it but it was never actually offered? It was never an official proposal?
It didn't happen then and as has been pointed out, if it was an official proposal Gorbachev must surely have been informed.
Who from the USSR was there then? | |
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| Putin on 23:16 - Mar 10 with 1124 views | pikeypaul |
| Putin on 21:55 - Mar 9 by Catullus |
I won't deny the West has been up to plenty of dirty tricks, the CIA has been interfering for far too long and god knows what other countries are doing.
The fact is some people seem to believe that Russia has a lovely honest government that never interferes, never plays dirty tricks, never does anything nasty and it is all about the West and our evil ways.
The number of excuses I have seen for Putin including the Neo Nazi stuff has been astounding. This the man who has already made threats of a nuclear kind, who has bombed a maternity hospital and the so called safe corridors during a truce.
Why do people defend him? |
Because they are thick ,socialist, leftie loving mugs who vote whatever their grandparents told them to regardless of policy or manifesto.
Ask 90%. of the Welsh idiots and they would not even know what USSR actually stood for.
The morons in Wales get what they deserve. [Post edited 10 Mar 2022 23:20]
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| Putin on 23:40 - Mar 10 with 1105 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Putin on 22:23 - Mar 10 by Catullus |
So these people discussed it but it was never actually offered? It was never an official proposal?
It didn't happen then and as has been pointed out, if it was an official proposal Gorbachev must surely have been informed.
Who from the USSR was there then? |
My very first post said it was not official.
It was discussed.
Apparently Baker went too far in discussing it.
If you want to know who was involved read the articles in the links. | | | |
| Putin on 11:58 - Mar 11 with 1031 views | Catullus |
| Putin on 10:19 - Mar 10 by Flynnidine_Zidownes |
It will be a moral victory to wean ourselves off the oil of a state that is aggressive, hates women and gays and regularly commits crimes against their own citizens and rely on the Middle Eastern caliphates instead. |
Ooh you tinker you. I see what you did there. | |
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| Putin on 12:03 - Mar 11 with 1027 views | Catullus |
| Putin on 23:40 - Mar 10 by A_Fans_Dad |
My very first post said it was not official.
It was discussed.
Apparently Baker went too far in discussing it.
If you want to know who was involved read the articles in the links. |
I don't need to read anything else because as you just admitted, it was not official. If it ws never an official offer or agreement and there is nothing in writing then this argument hasn't a leg to stand on.
You do understand that there is no deal and thus no argument about a deal unless there is an offer which is agreed and signed by all parties?
Any informal discussions are merely informal discussions and not a basis for any claims of agreements. I'm sure Putin would say the same if NATO claimed a gentlemans agreement which he didn't want to obey. | |
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| Putin on 12:21 - Mar 11 with 1002 views | onehunglow |
| Putin on 08:32 - Mar 10 by Catullus |
I'm not really sure that's true. There's been a few on here seemingly making excuses for him.
He's a politician, he tells lies. Nobody doubts Bojo lies, why trust Putin?
With the news the UAE is pumping more oil the price has started to drop, countries are trying to move away from relying on Russia for oil and gas, maybe our government will look again at our options. Putin may well have badly harmed Russia for decades, the West may have re-raised the iron curtain in the face of his aggression. |
Cat.
If that curtain sees just Russia behind it then that would do me.
A filthy,corrupt,backward ,historically cruel vicious bustards .
They have tainted all sport for a good 70 yrs . | |
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| Putin on 12:30 - Mar 11 with 992 views | onehunglow |
| Putin on 10:44 - Mar 10 by ItchySphincter |
Cos people are nuts. I e even seen people bandying about words like ‘communism’. Putin has nothing to do with communism. Putin is a kleptocrat and Russia has been a criminal organisation for decades. |
You are Left ,ergo you despise the capitalist west ,where you live.
Name me one socialist country that is nirvana.
Being left means hating the Yanks and Israel
Being left means you make excuses
Communism = state ownership totally. Land was taken from individuals for mother Russia .
Putin is KGB to the core
KGB enforced Communism in Russia….state control.. State running the media now there .
State Control.
It’s all about control and Putin wants it’s former colonies back. Ukraine doesn’t want to return. Neither do any of the other countries of the Bloc . They built a wall in Berlin to stop capitalism but people risked their lives to get to the West
Here, we see support for mother Russia ,albeit its rather subtle .
Russia has and should not have a say in any sovereign country so if the Ukrainian nazis want to join EU and NATO ,it’s now to do with Vlad . | |
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| Putin on 12:50 - Mar 11 with 987 views | Catullus |
| Putin on 12:30 - Mar 11 by onehunglow |
You are Left ,ergo you despise the capitalist west ,where you live.
Name me one socialist country that is nirvana.
Being left means hating the Yanks and Israel
Being left means you make excuses
Communism = state ownership totally. Land was taken from individuals for mother Russia .
Putin is KGB to the core
KGB enforced Communism in Russia….state control.. State running the media now there .
State Control.
It’s all about control and Putin wants it’s former colonies back. Ukraine doesn’t want to return. Neither do any of the other countries of the Bloc . They built a wall in Berlin to stop capitalism but people risked their lives to get to the West
Here, we see support for mother Russia ,albeit its rather subtle .
Russia has and should not have a say in any sovereign country so if the Ukrainian nazis want to join EU and NATO ,it’s now to do with Vlad . |
Putin is no Communist. To start with he is apparently a Christian and according to Martin Luther King a Christian cannot be a communist because communism as a philosophical system denies the existence of anything beyond the material realm and, as a related principle, denies the existence of universal moral truth. Worst of all, it denies the essential quality of humanity: the freedom of the individual soul.
I suppose I could find other sources too but there will be many and King being a Pastor, he seems a reliable choice. There again, this is what "The Socialist" says,
https://archive.socialistparty.org.uk/issue/1168/33783/23-02-2022/ukraine-worker
Putin is many things but he is no Communist. Putin wants power and control.
As it goes I consider myself ever so slightly left of centre but I am not a socialist and I can see full well the problems with capitalism too. | |
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| Putin on 13:05 - Mar 11 with 978 views | onehunglow |
| Putin on 12:50 - Mar 11 by Catullus |
Putin is no Communist. To start with he is apparently a Christian and according to Martin Luther King a Christian cannot be a communist because communism as a philosophical system denies the existence of anything beyond the material realm and, as a related principle, denies the existence of universal moral truth. Worst of all, it denies the essential quality of humanity: the freedom of the individual soul.
I suppose I could find other sources too but there will be many and King being a Pastor, he seems a reliable choice. There again, this is what "The Socialist" says,
https://archive.socialistparty.org.uk/issue/1168/33783/23-02-2022/ukraine-worker
Putin is many things but he is no Communist. Putin wants power and control.
As it goes I consider myself ever so slightly left of centre but I am not a socialist and I can see full well the problems with capitalism too. |
Communism IS all about power,however only for the select .
Putin absolutely is a communist and no Christian. The New Testament teaches us that only those who believe Christ died for our sins are Christians and thus will have an afterlife sitting in Heaven.
Putin might call himself such and being a member of a Church does not make you a Christian . Yiu can be a Christian and never go to Church but conversely you can be a killing machine and go to Church and go through the rituals
And that is why so many on the left here are reluctant to truly rip this venomous snake to pieces [Post edited 11 Mar 2022 13:09]
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| Putin on 16:33 - Mar 11 with 943 views | Catullus |
| Putin on 13:05 - Mar 11 by onehunglow |
Communism IS all about power,however only for the select .
Putin absolutely is a communist and no Christian. The New Testament teaches us that only those who believe Christ died for our sins are Christians and thus will have an afterlife sitting in Heaven.
Putin might call himself such and being a member of a Church does not make you a Christian . Yiu can be a Christian and never go to Church but conversely you can be a killing machine and go to Church and go through the rituals
And that is why so many on the left here are reluctant to truly rip this venomous snake to pieces [Post edited 11 Mar 2022 13:09]
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Politics is all about power, Putin describe himself as Orthodox Christian and wears a cross,
https://www.grunge.com/625237/how-vladimir-putin-really-feels-about-religion/
You can be left wing and be religious but Communism and religion don't really mix.
What does it matter, he is a power hungry dictator who runs an authoritarian state where the truth is suppressed and only official government sanctioned news is allowed. In the end, whoever is in charge, the people at the top always look after themselves and their friends. Friends like Abramovich, Deripaska and Tokarev. | |
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| Putin on 17:16 - Mar 11 with 919 views | majorraglan |
| Putin on 13:05 - Mar 11 by onehunglow |
Communism IS all about power,however only for the select .
Putin absolutely is a communist and no Christian. The New Testament teaches us that only those who believe Christ died for our sins are Christians and thus will have an afterlife sitting in Heaven.
Putin might call himself such and being a member of a Church does not make you a Christian . Yiu can be a Christian and never go to Church but conversely you can be a killing machine and go to Church and go through the rituals
And that is why so many on the left here are reluctant to truly rip this venomous snake to pieces [Post edited 11 Mar 2022 13:09]
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I’d disagree with your comment re Communism. Communism is supposed to be a philosophical, social, political, and economic ideology and movement whose goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of property and the absence of social classes, money, and the state.
What we have in Russia and the other “communist” or “socialist” bares little resemblance to what “communism” is about, the countries have morphed in to authoritarian regimes where a small number of individuals have completed control, in Russia its VP, his inner sanctum, the Secret Services, Military and the Oligarchs. They control everything and those who dissent are jailed or terminated. | | | |
| Putin on 19:16 - Mar 11 with 868 views | shingle |
| Putin on 07:08 - Mar 10 by felixstowe_jack |
No one believes a word Putin says. |
Well sadly many of his own people do, just like the Germans did under the Nazis but to still believe him in today's day and age and after being suppressed for all these years shows they must be petrified of him and the regime or are a really stupid race of people. | | | |
| Putin on 22:15 - Mar 11 with 828 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Putin on 19:16 - Mar 11 by shingle |
Well sadly many of his own people do, just like the Germans did under the Nazis but to still believe him in today's day and age and after being suppressed for all these years shows they must be petrified of him and the regime or are a really stupid race of people. |
Yes sadly too many Russians believe him . The Russian state media only briadcasts his lies and the foreign media have been closed down. I am sure the Russian people have noticed a lot of businesses shutting down and their credit cards are no longer working. That is why there are huge queues for cash. | |
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| Putin on 22:19 - Mar 11 with 815 views | Catullus |
| Putin on 19:16 - Mar 11 by shingle |
Well sadly many of his own people do, just like the Germans did under the Nazis but to still believe him in today's day and age and after being suppressed for all these years shows they must be petrified of him and the regime or are a really stupid race of people. |
Hasn't Russia threatened to cut itself off from the internet?
It can't have any of that pesky truth getting into it's peoples heads. There's far too much of it in there already! | |
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