| Lotto News on 22:02 - May 24 with 2294 views | Reedy |
| Lotto News on 21:54 - May 24 by judd |
I've done my research on them via same route, cheers.
Yes, I was chatting to Alex for a good while. I could not get out of him how he was paid, doubt he was doing it for no financial recompense.
The other lot you mention I believe are a charity that we, sorry, the club pays 20% of lotto takings to. |
Yes, just looked at the original articles the club put out about the new lottery taking over from goldbond and 20% goes to the Barry Kilby prostrate cancer fund. A very worthy cause.
So who are place enterprise and what have they got to do with the lottery?
I know the club used to run everything in house, with rather minimal overheads. I would imagine that if this other company are part of it, they will be taking a slice as well. |  |
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| Lotto News on 22:10 - May 24 with 2265 views | judd |
| Lotto News on 22:02 - May 24 by Reedy |
Yes, just looked at the original articles the club put out about the new lottery taking over from goldbond and 20% goes to the Barry Kilby prostrate cancer fund. A very worthy cause.
So who are place enterprise and what have they got to do with the lottery?
I know the club used to run everything in house, with rather minimal overheads. I would imagine that if this other company are part of it, they will be taking a slice as well. |
Place may take a slice from the charity.
However, in the minutes of the Trust meeting from November 2019, the club make separate mentions of the prostate cancer charity and our lottery partners. |  |
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| Lotto News on 22:18 - May 24 with 2244 views | Brierls |
| Lotto News on 19:00 - May 24 by Reedy |
The lottery has somewhere between 5,000-6,000 paying members (last I was told, which was last year) each member paying 50p each (if you have £1 you are counted as two members)
Take it in the middle at 5,500 (it used to be considerably higher) that’s £2,750 per week. This is off the old goldbond system and not including any new dale lotto members.
Minus prizes of £700 per week & 15% commission, your left with over £1,600 per week or just over £85,000 per annum. Even if my opening figures are slightly out, it’s still a massive own goal financially.
If half sign up to the direct debit (which is very unlikely) then on the above sums your left with £675 per week or just over £35,000 per annum. I very much doubt we’ve got £50,000 to throw away.
My posts are based on the financial side of the club, which will be struggling like virtually every other business across the country at the moment, and the way it has communicated this. [Post edited 24 May 2020 19:08]
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I agree that the club haven’t got £50K to lose, which is why I’m asking about the figures. I’m also very confident that the board are aware that the club haven’t got £50K to lose, which leads me to believe that the Dale Lotto isn’t making as much as we think. With or without agents.
I also didn’t know about the bizarre rules for prizes transferred Goldbond members. That on its own sounds like a complete circus. I’m not sure DB can be blamed for that, as much as that’s the default setting. The Lotteries Manager should be held accountable, for the Dale Lotto fiasco and lack of communication. |  | | |
| Lotto News on 22:25 - May 24 with 2233 views | judd |
| Lotto News on 22:18 - May 24 by Brierls |
I agree that the club haven’t got £50K to lose, which is why I’m asking about the figures. I’m also very confident that the board are aware that the club haven’t got £50K to lose, which leads me to believe that the Dale Lotto isn’t making as much as we think. With or without agents.
I also didn’t know about the bizarre rules for prizes transferred Goldbond members. That on its own sounds like a complete circus. I’m not sure DB can be blamed for that, as much as that’s the default setting. The Lotteries Manager should be held accountable, for the Dale Lotto fiasco and lack of communication. |
The business case is a separate issue and there have been ample opportunities to address the agents with these concerns over the past 2 1/2 years.
The model had worked successfully over many years, was simple and straightforward. All that was needed was more people to sign up to it.
Do you remember those agents meetings and letters that communicated all this?
The Lotteries Manager was dealt the shittest hand to deal with ever by the instigator in this change. At least the lotteries manager had the balls to put his name down as the person responsible and ensured absolute compliance by refusing to allow gambling arrears to build up.
I think you owe him an apology. | |
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| Lotto News on 23:35 - May 24 with 2162 views | Brierls |
| Lotto News on 22:25 - May 24 by judd |
The business case is a separate issue and there have been ample opportunities to address the agents with these concerns over the past 2 1/2 years.
The model had worked successfully over many years, was simple and straightforward. All that was needed was more people to sign up to it.
Do you remember those agents meetings and letters that communicated all this?
The Lotteries Manager was dealt the shittest hand to deal with ever by the instigator in this change. At least the lotteries manager had the balls to put his name down as the person responsible and ensured absolute compliance by refusing to allow gambling arrears to build up.
I think you owe him an apology. |
You’re joking, right? The CEO gets a rough ride on here for pretty much everything, yet I owe the Lotteries manager an apology for saying he’s accountable for the Dale Lotto?! It’s his job for gods sake, the clue is in the job title.
You may have your own private conversations with him and form your opinion on that, but he threw his toys out the pram on here when asked to answer the most basic of questions.
I have no axe to grind with either the CEO or Lotteries Manager but it’s very apparent that one of the two doesn’t get the cross examination of the other on decisions made. [Post edited 24 May 2020 23:44]
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| Lotto News on 23:46 - May 24 with 2142 views | judd |
| Lotto News on 23:35 - May 24 by Brierls |
You’re joking, right? The CEO gets a rough ride on here for pretty much everything, yet I owe the Lotteries manager an apology for saying he’s accountable for the Dale Lotto?! It’s his job for gods sake, the clue is in the job title.
You may have your own private conversations with him and form your opinion on that, but he threw his toys out the pram on here when asked to answer the most basic of questions.
I have no axe to grind with either the CEO or Lotteries Manager but it’s very apparent that one of the two doesn’t get the cross examination of the other on decisions made. [Post edited 24 May 2020 23:44]
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I'm not joking.
You really need to understand all that has gone on which you have previously acknowledged you know nothing about.
Do you know, for example, that the manager you are deriding has been furloughed for an age and so cannot communicate with anyone work related?
The manager you criticise did not decide on the course of action taken.
You must remember those agents meetings, right?
Nice edit, by the way [Post edited 24 May 2020 23:48]
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| Lotto News on 00:13 - May 25 with 2123 views | Brierls |
| Lotto News on 23:46 - May 24 by judd |
I'm not joking.
You really need to understand all that has gone on which you have previously acknowledged you know nothing about.
Do you know, for example, that the manager you are deriding has been furloughed for an age and so cannot communicate with anyone work related?
The manager you criticise did not decide on the course of action taken.
You must remember those agents meetings, right?
Nice edit, by the way [Post edited 24 May 2020 23:48]
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I was adding with the edit, not removing anything.
I don’t remember the agents meetings as I’m not an agent. I usually take very little interest to be honest, but I’m sick and tired of the witch-hunt. Some just can’t accept that decisions have to be made, they have to make it personal.
I did forget about the majority of staff being furloughed, so I hold my hands up and acknowledge that the Lotteries Manager could/should not have been the person responsible for communication of the Dale Lotto changes. Apologies to RP on that front. Whoever was responsible has royally fcuked it up, as I’ve already said.
It still doesn’t explain the fiasco that two agents themselves have described on this thread with regard to customers being transferred from Goldbond to Dale Lotto, unless the Lotteries Manager was furloughed before the scheme was even introduced. If it was the CEO making all those decisions and putting the strategy and prize fund rules together, it begs the question of why we’ve got a Lotteries Manager at all. I’d like to think any manager at the club has the ability to make and be accountable for their own decisions. | | | |
| Lotto News on 00:20 - May 25 with 2113 views | judd |
| Lotto News on 00:13 - May 25 by Brierls |
I was adding with the edit, not removing anything.
I don’t remember the agents meetings as I’m not an agent. I usually take very little interest to be honest, but I’m sick and tired of the witch-hunt. Some just can’t accept that decisions have to be made, they have to make it personal.
I did forget about the majority of staff being furloughed, so I hold my hands up and acknowledge that the Lotteries Manager could/should not have been the person responsible for communication of the Dale Lotto changes. Apologies to RP on that front. Whoever was responsible has royally fcuked it up, as I’ve already said.
It still doesn’t explain the fiasco that two agents themselves have described on this thread with regard to customers being transferred from Goldbond to Dale Lotto, unless the Lotteries Manager was furloughed before the scheme was even introduced. If it was the CEO making all those decisions and putting the strategy and prize fund rules together, it begs the question of why we’ve got a Lotteries Manager at all. I’d like to think any manager at the club has the ability to make and be accountable for their own decisions. |
Yes, you would like to think. So do so. | |
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| Lotto News on 09:08 - May 25 with 1983 views | RaymondJohn |
All agents have been sent thier commission which was in separate account ring fenced never ever any issue with this. | | | |
| Lotto News on 10:37 - May 25 with 1931 views | ChaffRAFC |
Thank you Ray for the work put in with agents since taking over.
My own views, now that I've had time to mull it over are that as sad at is is, it was inevitable.
From Reedys post with figures, his figures are based on every member paying in and they don't. We can't collect back pay so it"s probably a bit less than Reedys £85k, would imagine nearer £65k and then you take into account the fact that all agents are making a saving of £120 on their season tickets when truth is, most are Dale fans that when push came to shove, would probably still go and watch or buy full price ones. There's also admin costs of running the goldbond that none of us will know of, printing costs etc that could be avoided with email results etc if we're not handing the sheets out.
Be interesting to see the financial impact of the Lotto being direct debit only for sure.
The goldbond, has been on a downward spiral for some time. I didn't agree with the rebranding of it and it's been a slippery slope since with some ridiculous decisions made along the way.
Fair play to Reedy if he enjoys doing it, I can't say the same. It was a chore and I got a bit of a sinking feeling come about 4pm at work and realised it was GB night. There's no way I'd have done it without getting a discounted season ticket. I took on an extra round a few years ago to get my Dad a season ticket as well but when he passed away, that round was given up quickly.
It's a sad end as I've mentioned before but the only thing I'm annoyed over really is that we found out by social media and not a letter. I've since got the letter and it's very much the same as the online article and had a bit of a feel of "we're sorry to do this but here's a form to pay by direct debit" which wasn't great at all.
Don't like the way it's been done, but not surprised it's happened and a small part of me is glad the decision was made for me.
Appreciate that this was a bigger kick in the teeth for others. |  |
| If I hadn't seen such riches, I could live with being poor |
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| Lotto News on 10:41 - May 25 with 1924 views | judd |
| Lotto News on 10:37 - May 25 by ChaffRAFC |
Thank you Ray for the work put in with agents since taking over.
My own views, now that I've had time to mull it over are that as sad at is is, it was inevitable.
From Reedys post with figures, his figures are based on every member paying in and they don't. We can't collect back pay so it"s probably a bit less than Reedys £85k, would imagine nearer £65k and then you take into account the fact that all agents are making a saving of £120 on their season tickets when truth is, most are Dale fans that when push came to shove, would probably still go and watch or buy full price ones. There's also admin costs of running the goldbond that none of us will know of, printing costs etc that could be avoided with email results etc if we're not handing the sheets out.
Be interesting to see the financial impact of the Lotto being direct debit only for sure.
The goldbond, has been on a downward spiral for some time. I didn't agree with the rebranding of it and it's been a slippery slope since with some ridiculous decisions made along the way.
Fair play to Reedy if he enjoys doing it, I can't say the same. It was a chore and I got a bit of a sinking feeling come about 4pm at work and realised it was GB night. There's no way I'd have done it without getting a discounted season ticket. I took on an extra round a few years ago to get my Dad a season ticket as well but when he passed away, that round was given up quickly.
It's a sad end as I've mentioned before but the only thing I'm annoyed over really is that we found out by social media and not a letter. I've since got the letter and it's very much the same as the online article and had a bit of a feel of "we're sorry to do this but here's a form to pay by direct debit" which wasn't great at all.
Don't like the way it's been done, but not surprised it's happened and a small part of me is glad the decision was made for me.
Appreciate that this was a bigger kick in the teeth for others. |
It got me away from the wife for a couple of hours. I always looked forward to collection night!
Echo your thanks to Ray. Always very helpful and responsive. | |
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| Lotto News on 11:42 - May 25 with 1872 views | Reedy |
| Lotto News on 10:37 - May 25 by ChaffRAFC |
Thank you Ray for the work put in with agents since taking over.
My own views, now that I've had time to mull it over are that as sad at is is, it was inevitable.
From Reedys post with figures, his figures are based on every member paying in and they don't. We can't collect back pay so it"s probably a bit less than Reedys £85k, would imagine nearer £65k and then you take into account the fact that all agents are making a saving of £120 on their season tickets when truth is, most are Dale fans that when push came to shove, would probably still go and watch or buy full price ones. There's also admin costs of running the goldbond that none of us will know of, printing costs etc that could be avoided with email results etc if we're not handing the sheets out.
Be interesting to see the financial impact of the Lotto being direct debit only for sure.
The goldbond, has been on a downward spiral for some time. I didn't agree with the rebranding of it and it's been a slippery slope since with some ridiculous decisions made along the way.
Fair play to Reedy if he enjoys doing it, I can't say the same. It was a chore and I got a bit of a sinking feeling come about 4pm at work and realised it was GB night. There's no way I'd have done it without getting a discounted season ticket. I took on an extra round a few years ago to get my Dad a season ticket as well but when he passed away, that round was given up quickly.
It's a sad end as I've mentioned before but the only thing I'm annoyed over really is that we found out by social media and not a letter. I've since got the letter and it's very much the same as the online article and had a bit of a feel of "we're sorry to do this but here's a form to pay by direct debit" which wasn't great at all.
Don't like the way it's been done, but not surprised it's happened and a small part of me is glad the decision was made for me.
Appreciate that this was a bigger kick in the teeth for others. |
Very true Chaff and I didn’t take that into account regarding back pay. But even at 65k it’s still considerably more than the half signing up via direct debit would be.
The only reason goldbond or the new version was on a downward spiral (this is purely my opinion) is that rounds weren’t canvassed and haven’t been canvassed for 3-4 years, everything was put in direct debit, the interest in agents became less and less.
I did, do enjoy doing it. The main thing above all to me, was the link between the community and the club, it kept the club at the forefront of people’s mind by people knocking on the door every week. This will no doubt be lost now.
On the launch of the new scheme on the 28th March last year, below was on the original article on the club website.
I pay regularly to an RAFC Agent / cash collector each week, will this continue?
Yes, our Lottery Agents / cash collectors are a vital part of our Lottery and will continue where possible to collect your weekly entries, and on receipt, you will be entered into the relevant draws. | |
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| Lotto News on 11:47 - May 25 with 1864 views | Statzdale |
| Lotto News on 10:41 - May 25 by judd |
It got me away from the wife for a couple of hours. I always looked forward to collection night!
Echo your thanks to Ray. Always very helpful and responsive. |
In contrast to some people I absolutely loved doing Goldbond and will miss it a great deal. Maybe that’s why I was an agent for 16 years and was intending to carry on for years to come. I was lucky with which rounds I had and currently being out of work due to illness ( that’s why I unfortunately had to give up stewarding this season after 25years ) the commission paid for me to have a holiday each October. But most of all I will miss all my customers who became friends. This is the part I will miss the most. It’s such a pity it had to end this way. If this decision was ever reversed I would carry on without hesitation. The doorstep collecting was the club’s connection with people who supported the club but didn’t go to games which has now been severed. And I the figures proved that DD / SO was not a popular alternative [Post edited 25 May 2020 11:54]
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| Lotto News on 12:00 - May 25 with 1838 views | RaymondJohn |
Brierls
As the loosly titled lottery manager, I have been furloughed for some 9 weeks now. Any of the changes,communication etc as been carried out without any involvement from myself, so not sure how I am accountable.
Please explain
You really | | | |
| Lotto News on 12:19 - May 25 with 1814 views | blackdogblue |
| Lotto News on 12:00 - May 25 by RaymondJohn |
Brierls
As the loosly titled lottery manager, I have been furloughed for some 9 weeks now. Any of the changes,communication etc as been carried out without any involvement from myself, so not sure how I am accountable.
Please explain
You really |
Don’t rise to him or anything what is said on the forum in general.
There are a lot of debates on here, the lottery is one of them. Should we spend money on a barcode system & put people out of work, the pitch, have any of the players been released etc, with the shutdown of the clubs social media information & updates are scarce.
This must be a worrying time for you & everyone else furloughed at the club. Don’t take anything to heart & focus on what’s important mate, staying safe & well 👠|  |
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| Lotto News on 12:24 - May 25 with 1803 views | RaymondJohn |
Thanks Blackdog.
I just get fed up of people like brierls spouting off when he as got zero knowledge or facts about the actual topic | | | |
| Lotto News on 13:41 - May 25 with 1753 views | Brierls |
| Lotto News on 12:00 - May 25 by RaymondJohn |
Brierls
As the loosly titled lottery manager, I have been furloughed for some 9 weeks now. Any of the changes,communication etc as been carried out without any involvement from myself, so not sure how I am accountable.
Please explain
You really |
Taken from my post last night...
“I did forget about the majority of staff being furloughed, so I hold my hands up and acknowledge that the Lotteries Manager could/should not have been the person responsible for communication of the Dale Lotto changes. Apologies to RP on that front. Whoever was responsible has royally fcuked it up, as I’ve already said.”
If you’re going to call me out on it, then at the very least read it.
I empathise with you being furloughed, I truly do. You are correct in saying (in your next post) I know very little about the inner workings of the Dale Lotto. Much like many know very little about the inner workings of the rest of the club. It doesn’t stop the witch hunt. I know the actions of others aren’t your fault, and in a way your role has been dragged into this thread purely because it’s Dale Lotto related. I don’t think it is unreasonable of me to assume that a Lotteries Manager would have authority and accountability for running the Dale Lotto. Your brief comment on the title suggests otherwise, so I’ll leave it at that as I wouldn’t want that comment to backfire on you (I’m not saying you should, but if you want to edit that bit out, I’ll remove any reference to it too).
The irony of BlackDog suggesting somebody is after a rise isn’t lost on me. For the record, I wasn’t. As you’ll see from the thread, Judd had the last word on our mini discussion. | | | |
| Lotto News on 13:54 - May 25 with 1731 views | 442Dale |
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| Lotto News on 14:00 - May 25 with 1721 views | Reedy |
| Lotto News on 12:00 - May 25 by RaymondJohn |
Brierls
As the loosly titled lottery manager, I have been furloughed for some 9 weeks now. Any of the changes,communication etc as been carried out without any involvement from myself, so not sure how I am accountable.
Please explain
You really |
If this is true (and I’ve no reason to not believe Ray) then this makes the situation considerably worse, as not only did the agents find it via the messageboard, so did the lotteries manager. I can’t think of any other business that would act this way. | |
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| Lotto News on 14:01 - May 25 with 1719 views | Brierls |
| Lotto News on 10:37 - May 25 by ChaffRAFC |
Thank you Ray for the work put in with agents since taking over.
My own views, now that I've had time to mull it over are that as sad at is is, it was inevitable.
From Reedys post with figures, his figures are based on every member paying in and they don't. We can't collect back pay so it"s probably a bit less than Reedys £85k, would imagine nearer £65k and then you take into account the fact that all agents are making a saving of £120 on their season tickets when truth is, most are Dale fans that when push came to shove, would probably still go and watch or buy full price ones. There's also admin costs of running the goldbond that none of us will know of, printing costs etc that could be avoided with email results etc if we're not handing the sheets out.
Be interesting to see the financial impact of the Lotto being direct debit only for sure.
The goldbond, has been on a downward spiral for some time. I didn't agree with the rebranding of it and it's been a slippery slope since with some ridiculous decisions made along the way.
Fair play to Reedy if he enjoys doing it, I can't say the same. It was a chore and I got a bit of a sinking feeling come about 4pm at work and realised it was GB night. There's no way I'd have done it without getting a discounted season ticket. I took on an extra round a few years ago to get my Dad a season ticket as well but when he passed away, that round was given up quickly.
It's a sad end as I've mentioned before but the only thing I'm annoyed over really is that we found out by social media and not a letter. I've since got the letter and it's very much the same as the online article and had a bit of a feel of "we're sorry to do this but here's a form to pay by direct debit" which wasn't great at all.
Don't like the way it's been done, but not surprised it's happened and a small part of me is glad the decision was made for me.
Appreciate that this was a bigger kick in the teeth for others. |
You were the person I was thinking of when I said some became agents because of the heavily reduced season ticket. But it wasn’t for me to name you, as it were. I’m sure there are many others like you.
Thanks for applying a little bit of common sense, as somebody reasonably “in the know”, to this thread. | | | |
| Lotto News on 14:55 - May 25 with 1671 views | Reedy |
| Lotto News on 14:01 - May 25 by Brierls |
You were the person I was thinking of when I said some became agents because of the heavily reduced season ticket. But it wasn’t for me to name you, as it were. I’m sure there are many others like you.
Thanks for applying a little bit of common sense, as somebody reasonably “in the know”, to this thread. |
I think if your agent your “in the know” | |
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| Lotto News on 16:33 - May 25 with 1617 views | judd |
| Lotto News on 14:55 - May 25 by Reedy |
I think if your agent your “in the know” |
Who was it on facebook 3 days ago who wrote that he did not agree with the decision? | |
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| Lotto News on 17:09 - May 25 with 1584 views | Reedy |
| Lotto News on 16:33 - May 25 by judd |
Who was it on facebook 3 days ago who wrote that he did not agree with the decision? |
Don’t know as I don’t have Facebook, but I’m sure they’re not alone in not agreeing with the decision! | |
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| Lotto News on 17:17 - May 25 with 1565 views | judd |
| Lotto News on 17:09 - May 25 by Reedy |
Don’t know as I don’t have Facebook, but I’m sure they’re not alone in not agreeing with the decision! |
Heh! | |
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| Lotto News on 17:19 - May 25 with 1561 views | blackdogblue |
| Lotto News on 13:41 - May 25 by Brierls |
Taken from my post last night...
“I did forget about the majority of staff being furloughed, so I hold my hands up and acknowledge that the Lotteries Manager could/should not have been the person responsible for communication of the Dale Lotto changes. Apologies to RP on that front. Whoever was responsible has royally fcuked it up, as I’ve already said.”
If you’re going to call me out on it, then at the very least read it.
I empathise with you being furloughed, I truly do. You are correct in saying (in your next post) I know very little about the inner workings of the Dale Lotto. Much like many know very little about the inner workings of the rest of the club. It doesn’t stop the witch hunt. I know the actions of others aren’t your fault, and in a way your role has been dragged into this thread purely because it’s Dale Lotto related. I don’t think it is unreasonable of me to assume that a Lotteries Manager would have authority and accountability for running the Dale Lotto. Your brief comment on the title suggests otherwise, so I’ll leave it at that as I wouldn’t want that comment to backfire on you (I’m not saying you should, but if you want to edit that bit out, I’ll remove any reference to it too).
The irony of BlackDog suggesting somebody is after a rise isn’t lost on me. For the record, I wasn’t. As you’ll see from the thread, Judd had the last word on our mini discussion. |
Irony..
The expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect.
Explain how what I put to Ray was in any way funny, forceable against you or falls in the above definition?
What I said was don’t rise to things that are said on here in the definition of taking something personally and reacting. Holding your hands up and not realising the stressful situation people furloughed are in does not cover from the fact you said it in the first place...
Then pure arrogance to suggest he should read it properly before calling you out...
In your second reply was there no hint of an apology for the first statement however corrected, posts like yours I why I get warnings for what I say on here so I will not post what I really think apart from, hold you hands up again, man up & apologise for getting it wrong in the first place please, it’s the decent thing to do.. | |
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