| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 16:39 - Aug 16 with 2340 views | Lohengrin |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 16:28 - Aug 16 by Highjack |
Is there a disadvantaged group called “black people”? |
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| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 16:48 - Aug 16 with 2330 views | Lohengrin |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 16:27 - Aug 16 by londonlisa2001 |
Yup. And I specifically said it wasn’t their fault.
It’d be nice though if they achieved that while doing so with a cross section of kids from all sorts of backgrounds, not just those whose parents are affluent.
Imagine how good they could be with a much bigger pool of people to choose from. There is less representation from ordinary backgrounds there now than there was in the 80s. |
And how much of that fall in representation would you estimate as being down to the decline in industrial communalism and the concomitant unity of Christian belief which held education as a higher virtue?
If we regard ‘Culture’ as a living thing we have to recognise that it can also become diseased and diminish. | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:09 - Aug 16 with 2308 views | DJack |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 16:48 - Aug 16 by Lohengrin |
And how much of that fall in representation would you estimate as being down to the decline in industrial communalism and the concomitant unity of Christian belief which held education as a higher virtue?
If we regard ‘Culture’ as a living thing we have to recognise that it can also become diseased and diminish. |
"...unity of Christian belief which held education as a higher virtue?" Really? You are forgetting that the ruling classes (Christian, white, rich(titled) folk) only saw it as a virtue to be kept for themselves. Mind you it was wasted on me  . |  |
| It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan |
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| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:14 - Aug 16 with 2301 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 16:48 - Aug 16 by Lohengrin |
And how much of that fall in representation would you estimate as being down to the decline in industrial communalism and the concomitant unity of Christian belief which held education as a higher virtue?
If we regard ‘Culture’ as a living thing we have to recognise that it can also become diseased and diminish. |
Re the industrial communalism, some. Although more of an issue in Wales and parts of the North than anywhere else as there was no sense of that in existence in the 80s for large swathes of the UK as a whole. And even in Wales and the North, it was declining by then.
Given that, as I said, the groups most over represented at Oxbridge at present are people from Indian and Chinese heritage, ascribing a belief in ‘education as a higher virtue’ to Christian culture seems, at best, flawed.
The main reason for the fall is the ever increasing wealth gap, resultant educational gap, and, as importantly, in fact probably more importantly, the expectation gap. Far too many are being written off in our society, pretty much at birth, when it comes to educational achievement and aspiration.
That’s why the initiative from someone like Stormzy, is positive. Because although nominally addressing the wealth issue for a tiny number, what he’s actually doing is addressing the expectation issue for far greater numbers. |  | | |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:17 - Aug 16 with 2295 views | Highjack |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 16:29 - Aug 16 by londonlisa2001 |
Yes. |
And this disadvantage comes purely from the colour of their skin right? |  |
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| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:21 - Aug 16 with 2288 views | trampie |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 16:39 - Aug 16 by Lohengrin |
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Devil worshipers ? |  |
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| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:21 - Aug 16 with 2289 views | Jango |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 16:22 - Aug 16 by londonlisa2001 |
Yes there probably would be. But there’s no real equivalence. As there isn’t a disadvantaged group called ‘white people’.
If Anthony Hopkins said he was going to find two bursaries for underprivileged kids from Port Talbot there’d be no outcry. If Rooney said he was going to do it for kids from Liverpool there’d be no outcry.
I’d bet that the kids that have the opportunity of a bursary because they come from Norfolk are always white. The mining bursaries I’d bet are almost always for white kids.
There has been systemic prejudice against people from ethnic minority backgrounds in this country for generations. An attempt to elevate people from that background from someone that has come from that themselves is not ‘racist’. It is positive discrimination. A positive discrimination that has happened the other way round for decades.
If you are white, and I assume you are, you have never suffered institutional discrimination in this country because of your colour. You may have suffered it for other reasons, but not because of your colour. That is not to say that individual black people or Asian people or anything else, may not themselves be racist. Of course they can be. As often as white people may be. But institutionally, societally, nah. |
Times have changed! Basically what you’re saying now is that white people have to treat everyone equal but blacks can stick together.
If Rooney has to say people from Liverpool for it to be acceptable or Anthony Hopkins Port Talbot then why couldn’t Stormzy say Croydon? There’s loads of disadvantaged white kids out there and what you’re basically saying is they’ve gotta fight it out with everyone whilst black kids deserve special treatment. | | | |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:22 - Aug 16 with 2286 views | Lohengrin |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:09 - Aug 16 by DJack |
"...unity of Christian belief which held education as a higher virtue?" Really? You are forgetting that the ruling classes (Christian, white, rich(titled) folk) only saw it as a virtue to be kept for themselves. Mind you it was wasted on me . |
It’s a concrete fact that Chapel played midwife to Trades Unionism and, by extension, initiatives like the WEA. It generated the swell that turned into a tidal wave of autodidactism and the mind-set that not only saw the attainment of knowledge as the means of ‘getting-on’ but, perhaps more importantly, an end in and of itself.
J.B Priestley’s anecdote about being astonished to overhear two young colliers arguing over the Theory of Relativity gives an indication of just how far has been the fall. If that scene was repeated in 2018 it would be two call centre workers arguing about Love Island!  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:25 - Aug 16 with 2281 views | Lohengrin |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:14 - Aug 16 by londonlisa2001 |
Re the industrial communalism, some. Although more of an issue in Wales and parts of the North than anywhere else as there was no sense of that in existence in the 80s for large swathes of the UK as a whole. And even in Wales and the North, it was declining by then.
Given that, as I said, the groups most over represented at Oxbridge at present are people from Indian and Chinese heritage, ascribing a belief in ‘education as a higher virtue’ to Christian culture seems, at best, flawed.
The main reason for the fall is the ever increasing wealth gap, resultant educational gap, and, as importantly, in fact probably more importantly, the expectation gap. Far too many are being written off in our society, pretty much at birth, when it comes to educational achievement and aspiration.
That’s why the initiative from someone like Stormzy, is positive. Because although nominally addressing the wealth issue for a tiny number, what he’s actually doing is addressing the expectation issue for far greater numbers. |
I’ll have to follow this up tomorrow.
Late for work...  | |
| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:26 - Aug 16 with 2277 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:17 - Aug 16 by Highjack |
And this disadvantage comes purely from the colour of their skin right? |
Yes.
They have been disadvantaged in this country due to the colour of their skin. | | | |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:27 - Aug 16 with 2276 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:25 - Aug 16 by Lohengrin |
I’ll have to follow this up tomorrow.
Late for work... |
Slacker. | | | |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:28 - Aug 16 with 2269 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:21 - Aug 16 by Jango |
Times have changed! Basically what you’re saying now is that white people have to treat everyone equal but blacks can stick together.
If Rooney has to say people from Liverpool for it to be acceptable or Anthony Hopkins Port Talbot then why couldn’t Stormzy say Croydon? There’s loads of disadvantaged white kids out there and what you’re basically saying is they’ve gotta fight it out with everyone whilst black kids deserve special treatment. |
I’m not saying anything anywhere near as simplistic as that, but I don’t think you really care. | | | |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:38 - Aug 16 with 2262 views | Jango |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:28 - Aug 16 by londonlisa2001 |
I’m not saying anything anywhere near as simplistic as that, but I don’t think you really care. |
Yes you are. It’s 2018, no British black child is anymore disadvantaged than white children. I’m very much for equality in this world but that is certainly not equality. | | | |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:47 - Aug 16 with 2244 views | trampie |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 13:19 - Aug 16 by Aquinas |
You make a number of ridiculous statements and this is another.
They have made it to Cambridge. They have succeeded. They have equal access to student loans etc as anyone else.
What isn't fair is the majority of inner city schools have crap facilities compared to suburban schools and that is where the inequality is. Stormzy funding intelligent black people's education is just a vanity project because he didn't go to uni himself. |
He is a massive Corbyn fan. | |
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| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 18:38 - Aug 16 with 2214 views | Highjack |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:26 - Aug 16 by londonlisa2001 |
Yes.
They have been disadvantaged in this country due to the colour of their skin. |
So a black child born to Nigerian heart surgeons in Kensington is more disadvantaged than a white child born to drug addled gambling addicts in Abercwmboi? | |
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| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 18:49 - Aug 16 with 2210 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 18:38 - Aug 16 by Highjack |
So a black child born to Nigerian heart surgeons in Kensington is more disadvantaged than a white child born to drug addled gambling addicts in Abercwmboi? |
Nope, because all other things aren’t equal.
A black child born to Nigerian heart surgeons in a Kensington is disadvantaged compared to a white child born to White British heart surgeons in Kensington.
And a black child born to drug addled gambling addicts in Abercwmboi is disadvantaged compared to a white child born to drug addled gambling addicts in Abercwmboi.
That’s how you measure disadvantage based solely on colour of skin.
As should be apparent. It’s not difficult. | | | |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 19:06 - Aug 16 with 2200 views | Jango |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 18:49 - Aug 16 by londonlisa2001 |
Nope, because all other things aren’t equal.
A black child born to Nigerian heart surgeons in a Kensington is disadvantaged compared to a white child born to White British heart surgeons in Kensington.
And a black child born to drug addled gambling addicts in Abercwmboi is disadvantaged compared to a white child born to drug addled gambling addicts in Abercwmboi.
That’s how you measure disadvantage based solely on colour of skin.
As should be apparent. It’s not difficult. |
Utter tripe!
If we want to get rid of racism and inequality then we need to stop mentioning colour and start treating people as people.
This stormzy moron and bbc in particular are certainly not helping the issue.
Lisa your way to tackle racism seems to be to set one rule for white people and another for black people. | | | |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 19:13 - Aug 16 with 2193 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 19:06 - Aug 16 by Jango |
Utter tripe!
If we want to get rid of racism and inequality then we need to stop mentioning colour and start treating people as people.
This stormzy moron and bbc in particular are certainly not helping the issue.
Lisa your way to tackle racism seems to be to set one rule for white people and another for black people. |
Nope.
But you can’t ignore generations of inequality and pretend that it hasn’t affected the life chances of people on the receiving end.
If people are racist, they should be treated as such, black or white. I mentioned earlier that I think there are probably as many black or ethnic minority racists as white racists.
But there have not been decades of institutional or structural racism against white people in this country. Failing to acknowledge that and the effects of that is just silly. | | | |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 19:20 - Aug 16 with 2184 views | Jango |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 19:13 - Aug 16 by londonlisa2001 |
Nope.
But you can’t ignore generations of inequality and pretend that it hasn’t affected the life chances of people on the receiving end.
If people are racist, they should be treated as such, black or white. I mentioned earlier that I think there are probably as many black or ethnic minority racists as white racists.
But there have not been decades of institutional or structural racism against white people in this country. Failing to acknowledge that and the effects of that is just silly. |
I don’t think anyone fails to acknowledge that. But going forward, saying that it’s ok for blacks to descriminate against anyone non black but then say white people cant do it is ludicrous and only causes more problems. | | | |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 19:34 - Aug 16 with 2170 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 17:38 - Aug 16 by Jango |
Yes you are. It’s 2018, no British black child is anymore disadvantaged than white children. I’m very much for equality in this world but that is certainly not equality. |
“It’s 2018, no British black child is anymore disadvantaged than white Children”
I can’t believe anyone seriously believes that. |  |
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| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 19:48 - Aug 16 with 2141 views | Flashberryjack |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 19:34 - Aug 16 by exiledclaseboy |
“It’s 2018, no British black child is anymore disadvantaged than white Children”
I can’t believe anyone seriously believes that. |
That would depend on what you consider being disadvantaged is. |  |
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| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 19:54 - Aug 16 with 2136 views | Highjack |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 19:34 - Aug 16 by exiledclaseboy |
“It’s 2018, no British black child is anymore disadvantaged than white Children”
I can’t believe anyone seriously believes that. |
Of course there are disadvantaged black children but it’s not because they are black. | |
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| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 19:58 - Aug 16 with 2132 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 19:54 - Aug 16 by Highjack |
Of course there are disadvantaged black children but it’s not because they are black. |
As I explained a matter of minutes ago, being black remains, in and of itself, means you are at a disadvantage in this country.
Of course it does.
I don’t think you understand the point. It doesn’t mean you are at a disadvantage compared to all white people, it means that at every level of education, wealth, social status, you will be judged and treated differently to a white person of that same level of education, wealth, social status. That cannot be argued. | | | |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 20:06 - Aug 16 with 2121 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 19:54 - Aug 16 by Highjack |
Of course there are disadvantaged black children but it’s not because they are black. |
In many cases, yes it is. There are other factors at play but it’s foolhardy to deny that being black still puts someone at a disadvantage in many areas. | |
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| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 21:14 - Aug 16 with 2086 views | Flashberryjack |
| Stormzy and scholarships for black kids. on 20:06 - Aug 16 by exiledclaseboy |
In many cases, yes it is. There are other factors at play but it’s foolhardy to deny that being black still puts someone at a disadvantage in many areas. |
Expect being white puts someone at a disadvantage in many areas as well. | |
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