| Political Leaders' Debate 21:03 - Apr 17 with 12708 views | finberty |
This seemed to be a 4-1 attack on Nigel Farage - 5 if you count Dimbleby.
The forgetful Greens' woman seemed from another planet with her theories.
The Plaid Cymru woman clearly felt on safe ground by attacking Farage - not for what he said, but for what (she thinks) he stands for. She got a round of applause at the previous debate so felt well able to go again on the same line. Other than that, difficult to remember what she stood for except that she, like others, believes there is a pot of gold to pay for all the spending - or 'investment' as it's now called.
Miliband came across as slightly creepy, with a faint patronising smile and air of superiority, but having said that, not as geeky as I'd thought.
As for Sturgeon, never trust a woman in high heels and thin ankles - something is bound to crack at some stage. |  | | |  |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 09:07 - Apr 18 with 3400 views | mingthemerciless |
It makes me laugh when I read the last Labour Government ruined the economy. There was a global financial crisis, that's what damaged our economy. If I have a complaint about that Government it's they made the mistake of giving the bankers too much of a free hand. Having said that the Tories wanted to give the bankers more of a free hand at the time and now they have the brass neck to criticise the Labour Government for doing less of what they would have done L
Brown and Darling reacted quicker than most to retrieve the situation and had the economy heading back on track when Tories got back in. Of course they used the crisis as a smokescreen to enact the policies they've always wanted to put in place and we all know the rest. Anybody who lives in Rochdale knows the " recovery " is a myth. As for making housing associations " give " their houses away, what are the Tories going to do when they run out of bribes for a gullible electorate ? |  | | |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 10:47 - Apr 18 with 3361 views | tazzydjr |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 09:07 - Apr 18 by mingthemerciless |
It makes me laugh when I read the last Labour Government ruined the economy. There was a global financial crisis, that's what damaged our economy. If I have a complaint about that Government it's they made the mistake of giving the bankers too much of a free hand. Having said that the Tories wanted to give the bankers more of a free hand at the time and now they have the brass neck to criticise the Labour Government for doing less of what they would have done L
Brown and Darling reacted quicker than most to retrieve the situation and had the economy heading back on track when Tories got back in. Of course they used the crisis as a smokescreen to enact the policies they've always wanted to put in place and we all know the rest. Anybody who lives in Rochdale knows the " recovery " is a myth. As for making housing associations " give " their houses away, what are the Tories going to do when they run out of bribes for a gullible electorate ? |
The Financial crisis where all over Europe and it where EU who refused to take responsibility for their damage why you think they've been offering Greece an improved agreement Financially |  |
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| Political Leaders' Debate on 11:26 - Apr 18 with 3321 views | fitzochris |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 10:47 - Apr 18 by tazzydjr |
The Financial crisis where all over Europe and it where EU who refused to take responsibility for their damage why you think they've been offering Greece an improved agreement Financially |
Although it's not as simplistic as this, irresponsible lending by U.S. banks, as replicated here in the UK, contributed to the beginnings of the most recent financial crisis.
The idea of offering people loans against their homes and then giving them more money than the security on which the loan was based, was flawed from the get go.
That's what comes with giving the bankers more power. More people lending, spike in the housing market, inflated prices, more fees and bonuses for them.
But then people default, you reclaim the security (their home) but you're still in negative equity because you gave them 110% or even 120% of the value as an unsecured facility.
Northern Rock were the chief U.K. culprits. |  |
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| Political Leaders' Debate on 11:31 - Apr 18 with 3312 views | fitzochris |
A radical view is that the economy would be more stable and society better off if we completely remove the power that banks have to create money.
An interesting, if perhaps still flawed, view is as below:
"When we rely on banks to create most of our money, then the only way of getting more money into the economy — and allowing it to grow — is to encourage people to go further into debt. This is why UK government policy is focused on ‘getting banks lending again’ and encouraging people to borrow more for mortgages. But the financial crisis was caused by a huge build-up in private debt, so allowing that debt to increase even further could lead us into another financial crisis. What we need right now is to have a way of getting extra money into the economy, but without relying on households borrowing even more. This can happen if the Bank of England creates money and transfers it to the government to be spent into the real economy (rather than the financial or property markets)." | |
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| Political Leaders' Debate on 12:42 - Apr 18 with 3271 views | D_Alien |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 23:38 - Apr 17 by macro |
People left for 15 hours on Trollies, miscarriages in the corridor, people dying in queued ambulances outside, mental health patients not getting their medication and that was just one hospital yesterday featured on radio 5. You're burying your head in the sand if you think the nhs is in decent shape. The nhs is a fiasco |
My head isn't in the sand, it's slap bang in the middle of our local hospitals. What service, anywhere in the world, can cope with a year-on-year increase in demand that the NHS is subjected to?
Let me put it another way, so lay people such as yourself can understand and see things in a better perspective. If Dale were playing at home and expected a crowd of 2500, there'd be virtually no queues at the turnstiles. If 3500 turn up, there'd be small queues. If 6500 turn up, you'll be waiting outside in a 10 minute queue. If 9500 turn up - all at 2.55pm - you'll miss the first half.
So what would Dale do? They could double the number of turnstiles, but there'd still be queues, and there'd be a limit on how many extra turnstiles could be built into the stadium, at which point you'd be queueing every home game because by now 12000 are turning up and the ground can't hold them. Do you blame the club? Why have 12000 started turning up? Because we'd be playing out of our skins, and winning match after match.
Right, so let me put you straight. The NHS is a victim of it's own success. Capacity isn't infinite, but demand is becoming so. Do you get that? Yes? So stop moaning and trying to put down a brilliant service.
[Post edited 18 Apr 2015 12:47]
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| Political Leaders' Debate on 12:50 - Apr 18 with 3259 views | D_Alien |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 08:52 - Apr 18 by flyerdale |
As a very regular 'customer' of the NHS the last decade or so, the decine in services has dramatically fallen and services are now run on a skeleton like service staffing wise. The nurses are stressed out and hardly have time to take a break these days due to their workload. The waiting times for surgery have increased and the level of social care is at breaking point, my sister works in the community for the NHS and is expected to carry out a full time jobs workload in part time hours resulting in her working hours without pay.
Its a shambles and always will be under any Tory government. |
Every single one of those issues you've just quoted have their origin in the reforms started under the last Labour government. The biggest error was reforming GP contracts so they now get more money for working fewer hours and virtually no out-of-hours service. Yep, GPs get stressed too, and they might well have deserved their reforms. BUT - nothing was put in place by LABOUR to offset the increasing demand that places upon Community services and A&E. So think again.
[Post edited 18 Apr 2015 12:53]
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| Political Leaders' Debate on 12:58 - Apr 18 with 3241 views | Shun |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 12:42 - Apr 18 by D_Alien |
My head isn't in the sand, it's slap bang in the middle of our local hospitals. What service, anywhere in the world, can cope with a year-on-year increase in demand that the NHS is subjected to?
Let me put it another way, so lay people such as yourself can understand and see things in a better perspective. If Dale were playing at home and expected a crowd of 2500, there'd be virtually no queues at the turnstiles. If 3500 turn up, there'd be small queues. If 6500 turn up, you'll be waiting outside in a 10 minute queue. If 9500 turn up - all at 2.55pm - you'll miss the first half.
So what would Dale do? They could double the number of turnstiles, but there'd still be queues, and there'd be a limit on how many extra turnstiles could be built into the stadium, at which point you'd be queueing every home game because by now 12000 are turning up and the ground can't hold them. Do you blame the club? Why have 12000 started turning up? Because we'd be playing out of our skins, and winning match after match.
Right, so let me put you straight. The NHS is a victim of it's own success. Capacity isn't infinite, but demand is becoming so. Do you get that? Yes? So stop moaning and trying to put down a brilliant service.
[Post edited 18 Apr 2015 12:47]
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Fantastic post! As a fellow NHS-worker I agree with every word. |  | | |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 14:06 - Apr 18 with 3183 views | pnc4eva1 |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 09:07 - Apr 18 by mingthemerciless |
It makes me laugh when I read the last Labour Government ruined the economy. There was a global financial crisis, that's what damaged our economy. If I have a complaint about that Government it's they made the mistake of giving the bankers too much of a free hand. Having said that the Tories wanted to give the bankers more of a free hand at the time and now they have the brass neck to criticise the Labour Government for doing less of what they would have done L
Brown and Darling reacted quicker than most to retrieve the situation and had the economy heading back on track when Tories got back in. Of course they used the crisis as a smokescreen to enact the policies they've always wanted to put in place and we all know the rest. Anybody who lives in Rochdale knows the " recovery " is a myth. As for making housing associations " give " their houses away, what are the Tories going to do when they run out of bribes for a gullible electorate ? |
The economy left by the last Labour Government was in a better shape than the one they inherited. Government spending was 35% of GDP not the 43% that they inherited. Also the current Government has borrowed more and increased the GDP % spend again despite all the cuts that they have made.
Approximately 700 000 people are on zero hours contracts. The Government claim to have made 1.8 million jobs. Unfortunately many are part time or zero hours contracts. Full time jobs have been lost.
Cameron and Osbourne claim to have reduced inflation (which went up under their stewardship) as it is now 0%. Unfortunately they have failed to inform anyone that the main cause of reduced inflation is the global oil market reducing prices. |  |
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| Political Leaders' Debate on 14:07 - Apr 18 with 3181 views | TalkingSutty |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 12:58 - Apr 18 by Shun |
Fantastic post! As a fellow NHS-worker I agree with every word. |
Yes, wife's a nurse and they are constantly mowed out. Not finishing work on time is common place and having a proper meal break is a treat.Being reduced to tears because of the pressures is a regular thing for her team but they just get on with it.
I know a lot of people who work in the hospitals and for most of them its their life and as a result they are taken advantage of and their good will is taken for granted.
The NHS is the jewel in this countries crown and still the envy of the world. Finances set aside to fund the NHS are often not spent in the right areas or get swallowed up in red tape, to many chiefs and not enough Indians etc. We could discuss it all day. |  | | |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 14:35 - Apr 18 with 3141 views | ArthurDaley |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 14:06 - Apr 18 by pnc4eva1 |
The economy left by the last Labour Government was in a better shape than the one they inherited. Government spending was 35% of GDP not the 43% that they inherited. Also the current Government has borrowed more and increased the GDP % spend again despite all the cuts that they have made.
Approximately 700 000 people are on zero hours contracts. The Government claim to have made 1.8 million jobs. Unfortunately many are part time or zero hours contracts. Full time jobs have been lost.
Cameron and Osbourne claim to have reduced inflation (which went up under their stewardship) as it is now 0%. Unfortunately they have failed to inform anyone that the main cause of reduced inflation is the global oil market reducing prices. |
Ian Duncan Smith, has solved the zero-hours contract problem. He wants to call it the flexible hours contract.
He claimed people were more satisfied with their work-life balance than people with full time jobs.
And this ar*sehole wants people to vote them in again. |  |
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| Political Leaders' Debate on 14:51 - Apr 18 with 3123 views | KenBoon |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 14:35 - Apr 18 by ArthurDaley |
Ian Duncan Smith, has solved the zero-hours contract problem. He wants to call it the flexible hours contract.
He claimed people were more satisfied with their work-life balance than people with full time jobs.
And this ar*sehole wants people to vote them in again. |
IDS is vile. In Parliament when MPs of opposition parties have spoken about people in their constituencies living in poverty, he's sat there laughing. He's ignored those speaking by having conversations of his own and he has left debates early. It takes a special kind of evil to grin and laugh when being told about people struggling to eat and the rise of Food Banks (The Elephant in the room when 'recovery' is spoken about). |  | | |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 14:57 - Apr 18 with 3114 views | 49thseason |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 11:31 - Apr 18 by fitzochris |
A radical view is that the economy would be more stable and society better off if we completely remove the power that banks have to create money.
An interesting, if perhaps still flawed, view is as below:
"When we rely on banks to create most of our money, then the only way of getting more money into the economy — and allowing it to grow — is to encourage people to go further into debt. This is why UK government policy is focused on ‘getting banks lending again’ and encouraging people to borrow more for mortgages. But the financial crisis was caused by a huge build-up in private debt, so allowing that debt to increase even further could lead us into another financial crisis. What we need right now is to have a way of getting extra money into the economy, but without relying on households borrowing even more. This can happen if the Bank of England creates money and transfers it to the government to be spent into the real economy (rather than the financial or property markets)." |
I think Japan tried this as a means of getting out of their recession in the past but it proved fairly ineffective: http://www.breakingviews.com/japans-cash-helicopter-may-be-first-to-take-off/211
However it looks as though it might be back on the agenda. |  | | |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 15:33 - Apr 18 with 3079 views | 49thseason |
The NHS is deep in the brown stuff because of the cost of the PFI deals that were signed by the last Government. Using Private finance to build Hospitals is not necessarily a problem but Gordon Brown and Milliband got well and truly stitched up by the companies that got the PFI contracts, to the extent that the cost of borrowing relatively modest initial sums of money has escalated into a monster debt that the NHS is not funded for.
From the Guardian in 2012:
"The 717 PFI contracts currently under way across the UK are funding new schools, hospitals and other public facilities with a total capital value of £54.7bn, but the overall ultimate cost will reach £301bn by the time they have been paid off over the coming decades".
"For example, while the capital cost of rebuilding Calderdale Royal Hospital in Yorkshire is £64.6m, the scheme will end up costing Calderdale and Huddersfield NHS Foundation Trust a total of £773.2m. "
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/jul/05/pfi-cost-300bn
The new street lights project in Rochdale has a capital cost of £31m but will eventually have cost us £112M with interest charges. (first offered for tender in 2007).Did anyone vote to spend £4+m a year for 25 years for new street lights? ... thought not.
There are a dozen schools in Rochdale which were rebuilt during the last administration (including Oulder Hill) that are now virtually unable to provide their statutory educational commitments because of the cost of their PFI contracts which were renegotiated several years ago when the original contract holder went bust! The initial cost was £44.7m the ultimate cost will be £212m with payments from £7-10m a year for 25 years!.
So thats £14M a year for the next 20-odd years being spent on two capital projects worth around £70m in the first place which probably explains why Rochdale council is skint!
But I guess everyone will still vote Labour because their dad did and their granddad did and well Rochdale is a Sh1thole but what can you do eh? | | | |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 15:40 - Apr 18 with 3068 views | D_Alien |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 15:33 - Apr 18 by 49thseason |
The NHS is deep in the brown stuff because of the cost of the PFI deals that were signed by the last Government. Using Private finance to build Hospitals is not necessarily a problem but Gordon Brown and Milliband got well and truly stitched up by the companies that got the PFI contracts, to the extent that the cost of borrowing relatively modest initial sums of money has escalated into a monster debt that the NHS is not funded for.
From the Guardian in 2012:
"The 717 PFI contracts currently under way across the UK are funding new schools, hospitals and other public facilities with a total capital value of £54.7bn, but the overall ultimate cost will reach £301bn by the time they have been paid off over the coming decades".
"For example, while the capital cost of rebuilding Calderdale Royal Hospital in Yorkshire is £64.6m, the scheme will end up costing Calderdale and Huddersfield NHS Foundation Trust a total of £773.2m. "
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2012/jul/05/pfi-cost-300bn
The new street lights project in Rochdale has a capital cost of £31m but will eventually have cost us £112M with interest charges. (first offered for tender in 2007).Did anyone vote to spend £4+m a year for 25 years for new street lights? ... thought not.
There are a dozen schools in Rochdale which were rebuilt during the last administration (including Oulder Hill) that are now virtually unable to provide their statutory educational commitments because of the cost of their PFI contracts which were renegotiated several years ago when the original contract holder went bust! The initial cost was £44.7m the ultimate cost will be £212m with payments from £7-10m a year for 25 years!.
So thats £14M a year for the next 20-odd years being spent on two capital projects worth around £70m in the first place which probably explains why Rochdale council is skint!
But I guess everyone will still vote Labour because their dad did and their granddad did and well Rochdale is a Sh1thole but what can you do eh? |
Those are the facts right enough 49th
The NHS and a lot more besides royally screwed by the incompetence of the last Labour government and local councils
That's what the country would have in store again should we be stupid enough to let them anywhere near power - hence my initial post about Miliband being the biggest disaster as PM in our lifetimes. You've fleshed out the facts pretty neatly, but rightly add there'll be some who can't see facts for ingrained left-wing claptrap
[Post edited 18 Apr 2015 15:45]
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| Political Leaders' Debate on 21:15 - Apr 18 with 2962 views | mingthemerciless |
Yeah PFI contracts. A Tory idea that the Major Government thought was a good idea. Amazingly significant figures ( but not all ) in the Blair Government agreed with them. I haven't noticed that our current Government has a problem with Private a Industry filling their boots as a result of these deals though. | | | |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 22:25 - Apr 18 with 2816 views | 49thseason |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 21:15 - Apr 18 by mingthemerciless |
Yeah PFI contracts. A Tory idea that the Major Government thought was a good idea. Amazingly significant figures ( but not all ) in the Blair Government agreed with them. I haven't noticed that our current Government has a problem with Private a Industry filling their boots as a result of these deals though. |
Indeed, Andy Burnham was busy signing 221 PFI deals instead of finding out why 1200 patients died unneccesarily at North Staffs Hospital and ignoring 81 requests for an inquiry in the process. I don't know how he has the nerve to walk outside in daylight much less attempt to be reelected in the hope of continuing as Health Minister. | | | |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 09:37 - Apr 19 with 2756 views | mingthemerciless |
Well we didn't have to wait long for the latest Tory electoral bribe did we ? They must be getting pretty desperate now. Their Plan A of just rubbishing Miliband has obviously failed. | | | |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 11:16 - Apr 20 with 2656 views | tazzydjr |
For the Rochdale voters it's a catch 22 Lib Dems v Green Party even No Show i aren't voting any of the others on the grounds of that Rochdale Councillor or any of his friends at UKIP, Rochdale First or Tories getting that seat
For the Main Election i'm still undecided
Whats everyone else's opinion ahead of the General Election in a fortnight | |
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| Political Leaders' Debate on 22:34 - Apr 20 with 2551 views | mingthemerciless |
Mm, is English your first language ? It's pretty hard to tell from that. | | | |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 22:38 - Apr 20 with 2542 views | D_Alien |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 22:34 - Apr 20 by mingthemerciless |
Mm, is English your first language ? It's pretty hard to tell from that. |
I think you should Nigel Farage know, especially whilst tazzy's in the Czech Republic. If UKIP hold the balance of power after the election, tazzy might find himself stranded in mittel Europe
[Post edited 20 Apr 2015 22:40]
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| Political Leaders' Debate on 22:53 - Apr 20 with 2510 views | mingthemerciless |
If UKIP hold the balance of power with their couple of seats I'd be amazed. | | | |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 12:02 - Apr 21 with 2423 views | 49thseason |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 22:53 - Apr 20 by mingthemerciless |
If UKIP hold the balance of power with their couple of seats I'd be amazed. |
Ming, have you been watching the BBC again? You really should know better! | | | |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 12:15 - Apr 21 with 2414 views | fitzochris |
John Major is currently doing his desperate bit for the Tories by sticking it to the SNP on the telly box. He should keep to sticking it to Edwina Currie.
He claims the SNP are a "clear and present danger". Yeah, they are - to the Tories.
Fook off back to your box. | |
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| Political Leaders' Debate on 13:12 - Apr 21 with 2364 views | 49thseason |
All of which serves to incite the sweaty socks to vote for the SNP, effectively wiping out Labour North of the border.When Milliband becomes dependent on Scottish votes to pass English legislation, the English will return to the Tories in their droves, especially when the Tories announce that the only way to prevent the SNP from meddling in English affairs is to let them exit the UK. Trident moves to Barrow, Labour permanently disabled, Billions saved, Massive influx of business and money to England. Job done.... a price worth paying.
Well that's the theory. | | | |
| Political Leaders' Debate on 13:58 - Apr 21 with 2333 views | tazzydjr |
Love our their trying to keep focus on SNP watch the deciding party for the next coalition be the Greens now that'd would be a very interesting twist i know many Liberals who gone Green Party from traitors at Lib Dems (Tories Lapdog's) | |
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