| General Election Thread 17:46 - May 22 with 243880 views | loftboy |
This will be the first election that I have no idea who to vote for, will never vote Tory again after the lies during covid where my dad lost his life, don’t trust starmer, would never vote for a bunch of racists like reform , anyone give me a clue?
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| General Election Thread on 13:39 - May 30 with 1779 views | Stainrod |
| General Election Thread on 13:14 - May 30 by SheffieldHoop |
Sorry but a random corporation managing their tax affairs in a way that means they only pay in the Republic of Ireland or something.......is not as egregious as the government forcibly taking money out of my wages every month and carelessly giving it away to people who live in the same block of flats as me but can't be bothered to work - It's just not. I'd much rather my taxes are spent on Defence or R&D investments than benefits for people who cba.
Corps avoiding tax is annoying, but tax is highly complicated, the people who write the laws often end up advising the corporations on how to avoid them anyway, how are we supposed to prevent that? Taxing amazon on products manufactured in China, Shipped via Hong Kong & Netherlands, sold in UK.....not that straight forward. Businesses create jobs, jobs pay salaries, and salaries = PAYE cows to milk. That's the preferred model because it actually works. |
You are right to the extent it is complex but the fact remains that Amazon's net sales in the UK in 2023 were $33.6bn. Take the point that a lot of this is selling products made in China etc but its not insignificant that multi-national giants are not paying tax in the countries where they make their profits. Instead they are able to cherry pick the cheapest place to register for tax. These global giants are now more powerful than countries. The EU is belatedly trying to tackle this but Brexit Britain has rolled over and there is little debate about breaking up, taxing or regulating huge foreign monopolies such as Google. Every time someone in the UK searches for something on Google, a list of companies will crop up and Google might charge the four companies at the top of that list anything up to about £300 per click. Just imagine how many such clicks there are a day in the UK. Little of that money is coming back into the UK. We actually need stronger international government - such as through the EU - not less of it, because in an entirely unregulated global free-for-all its mainly the American giants that are winning. There are 7 US companies that are EACH worth more than the entire stock market of any European country including ours. Its not just about tax and regulation, of course: we in Britain need to be much better in investing in promising British companies, but it needs to be part of the solution. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 13:50 - May 30 with 1710 views | dmm |
| General Election Thread on 13:14 - May 30 by SheffieldHoop |
Sorry but a random corporation managing their tax affairs in a way that means they only pay in the Republic of Ireland or something.......is not as egregious as the government forcibly taking money out of my wages every month and carelessly giving it away to people who live in the same block of flats as me but can't be bothered to work - It's just not. I'd much rather my taxes are spent on Defence or R&D investments than benefits for people who cba.
Corps avoiding tax is annoying, but tax is highly complicated, the people who write the laws often end up advising the corporations on how to avoid them anyway, how are we supposed to prevent that? Taxing amazon on products manufactured in China, Shipped via Hong Kong & Netherlands, sold in UK.....not that straight forward. Businesses create jobs, jobs pay salaries, and salaries = PAYE cows to milk. That's the preferred model because it actually works. |
I did not mention tax avoidance but tax fraud. They are two different things.
Tax avoidance (legal) is estimated to be around £1.4 billion and tax evasion (illegal) around £4.7 billion. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 13:53 - May 30 with 1700 views | Stainrod |
I think we need benefits. Personally I don't want to live in a country where I can eat nice food but there are kids going hungry. That happens to some extent already and would only get worse if we reverted to a Victorian era "survival of the fittest." But I do think the benefits system needs to be improved so it incentives work more - it might cost the state more in the short term but if people were incentivised back into work it might help the problem described of long-term unemployment (eg they could keep their unemployment pay for a couple of months, or they would continue to get a proportion of it while they were earning under x amount) | | | |
| General Election Thread on 13:53 - May 30 with 1692 views | SheffieldHoop |
| General Election Thread on 13:50 - May 30 by dmm |
I did not mention tax avoidance but tax fraud. They are two different things.
Tax avoidance (legal) is estimated to be around £1.4 billion and tax evasion (illegal) around £4.7 billion. |
What's that got to do with the general election though? HMRC collects taxes, not MPs. |  |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| General Election Thread on 13:55 - May 30 with 1686 views | SheffieldHoop |
| General Election Thread on 13:39 - May 30 by Stainrod |
You are right to the extent it is complex but the fact remains that Amazon's net sales in the UK in 2023 were $33.6bn. Take the point that a lot of this is selling products made in China etc but its not insignificant that multi-national giants are not paying tax in the countries where they make their profits. Instead they are able to cherry pick the cheapest place to register for tax. These global giants are now more powerful than countries. The EU is belatedly trying to tackle this but Brexit Britain has rolled over and there is little debate about breaking up, taxing or regulating huge foreign monopolies such as Google. Every time someone in the UK searches for something on Google, a list of companies will crop up and Google might charge the four companies at the top of that list anything up to about £300 per click. Just imagine how many such clicks there are a day in the UK. Little of that money is coming back into the UK. We actually need stronger international government - such as through the EU - not less of it, because in an entirely unregulated global free-for-all its mainly the American giants that are winning. There are 7 US companies that are EACH worth more than the entire stock market of any European country including ours. Its not just about tax and regulation, of course: we in Britain need to be much better in investing in promising British companies, but it needs to be part of the solution. |
How many people do Amazon or Google employ in the UK? How much tax do those people pay? A little bit unfair to exclude that from your calculations IMO | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| General Election Thread on 14:00 - May 30 with 1668 views | loftupper |
Large amount of people who still see no value in a free education up to the age 18. So many people without any valuable qualifications, this is where as a Country we will lose. Parents who barely finished school themselves are rarely going to push their kids into getting a decent education. It might have worked for the grand parents and parents generation, leave school with nothing but get a job that can still afford them to buy a house etc, if they 'work hard'.
As to the point about minimum wage being less than what people get on benefits, surely the answer there is to give people a living wage if they are working. One that allows them to both pay their rent and eat. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 14:06 - May 30 with 1630 views | plasmahoop |
| General Election Thread on 12:42 - May 30 by JamesB1979 |
Sorry to jump in and I didn’t want to post any strong opinion on this thread but it’s more the increase in people claiming and the long term sickness. It’s gone up by 800,000 from 2019 to 2.8million. I totally get that there are plenty of people that can’t work and they should be looked after. But 2.8 million people of our work force? It’s systematic of the way we are. It’s always someone else’s fault. Even the work force, it’s all this working from home stuff and this ridiculous claim that it’s much harder life nowadays. Absolute nonsense. Life can be tough but people should just get on with it. The tax dodgers at the top, the lazy self-entitled benefit cheats and it’s the rest of us who has to pay for it all. |
The incoming labour government should be looking at all of this. Given that theyve pledged not to put up income tax or national insurance (beer and petrol tax rises here we go,) and there are huge demands on public services, it would make their life a hell of a lot easier if they can crack down on benefits, tax dodging, everything being discussed here | | | |
| General Election Thread on 14:09 - May 30 with 1624 views | Stainrod |
| General Election Thread on 13:55 - May 30 by SheffieldHoop |
How many people do Amazon or Google employ in the UK? How much tax do those people pay? A little bit unfair to exclude that from your calculations IMO |
Where did I exclude it? Naturally big companies contribute to the economy, but why should their staff pay more in UK tax than the billionaire shareholders? | | | |
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| General Election Thread on 14:14 - May 30 with 1605 views | SheffieldHoop |
| General Election Thread on 14:09 - May 30 by Stainrod |
Where did I exclude it? Naturally big companies contribute to the economy, but why should their staff pay more in UK tax than the billionaire shareholders? |
How are you measuring the taxable wealth of "billionaire shareholders" though? Seems like you want to tax their net worth rather than their actual income, which obviously is a short-sighted strategy that comes with diminishing returns. | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| General Election Thread on 14:16 - May 30 with 1598 views | Stainrod |
| General Election Thread on 14:14 - May 30 by SheffieldHoop |
How are you measuring the taxable wealth of "billionaire shareholders" though? Seems like you want to tax their net worth rather than their actual income, which obviously is a short-sighted strategy that comes with diminishing returns. |
I've said repeatedly I want to tax the profit their companies make in the UK. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 14:18 - May 30 with 1581 views | SheffieldHoop |
| General Election Thread on 14:16 - May 30 by Stainrod |
I've said repeatedly I want to tax the profit their companies make in the UK. |
We do. The reason they move profits elsewhere and pay their taxes elsewhere is precisely because we tax their profits at a rate the multi-nationals deem uncompetitive. | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| General Election Thread on 14:18 - May 30 with 2861 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Edit: wrong thread [Post edited 30 May 14:42]
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| General Election Thread on 14:50 - May 30 with 2780 views | Stainrod |
| General Election Thread on 14:18 - May 30 by SheffieldHoop |
We do. The reason they move profits elsewhere and pay their taxes elsewhere is precisely because we tax their profits at a rate the multi-nationals deem uncompetitive. |
I think you are engaging in semantics. They should not be allowed to "move" profits generated from UK customers to IRE. They should pay the appropriate tax rate on all genuine UK profit in the UK. Baffles me that a UK citizen should applaud their tax avoidance schemes but of course it is your right. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 14:54 - May 30 with 2720 views | SheffieldHoop |
| General Election Thread on 14:50 - May 30 by Stainrod |
I think you are engaging in semantics. They should not be allowed to "move" profits generated from UK customers to IRE. They should pay the appropriate tax rate on all genuine UK profit in the UK. Baffles me that a UK citizen should applaud their tax avoidance schemes but of course it is your right. |
Isn't this partly why Brexit was/is so important?
The fact they're still doing it after Brexit is why people like me argue Brexit still hasn't actually happened. | |
| "Someone despises me. That's their problem." Marcus Aurelius |
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| General Election Thread on 15:34 - May 30 with 2649 views | BucksRanger |
| General Election Thread on 12:40 - May 30 by Gus_iom |
I suppose the thing about fraud, though, is you don't know its fraudulent until you uncover it - how lo g did this Bulgarian gang go on for? |
According to the lunchtime news, and assuming I heard it correctly, this gang of 5 Bulgarians have been at it since 2016. The authorities have recovered £54 million but think there are hundreds of millions still to be recovered.
[Post edited 30 May 18:16]
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| General Election Thread on 17:03 - May 30 with 2521 views | derbyhoop |
For any business trading in multiple jurisdictions, it is perfectly legitimate to take your profits in the most favourable one. It may be they are doing inter group trading. If country A charges country B £1000, but country B sells for £1300, then liability is £300. What's to stop country A selling for £1250?
How, then, do you assess what the profit should be and the tax liability? Amazon & Google both have huge European base in Ireland (country A?).
I believe EU were planning changes to harmonise tax rates across the bloc, but, of course, UK would no longer be part of that proposal. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| General Election Thread on 19:20 - May 30 with 2423 views | Esox_Lucius |
Pensions are NOT a benefit, they are a deferred salary. Paid into and paid for whilst at work. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| General Election Thread on 19:25 - May 30 with 2403 views | Watford_Ranger |
| General Election Thread on 19:20 - May 30 by Esox_Lucius |
Pensions are NOT a benefit, they are a deferred salary. Paid into and paid for whilst at work. |
Pensions are officially a benefit and have been for some time. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 20:04 - May 30 with 2348 views | MickB |
Try the Greens. They might be slightly crazy and have no chance, but at leadt you will be on the side of the angels..... |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 20:42 - May 30 with 2300 views | johncharles |
| General Election Thread on 15:34 - May 30 by BucksRanger |
According to the lunchtime news, and assuming I heard it correctly, this gang of 5 Bulgarians have been at it since 2016. The authorities have recovered £54 million but think there are hundreds of millions still to be recovered.
[Post edited 30 May 18:16]
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A piss in the ocean compared to Michelle Mone.
Anyone remember Dido Harding ? Not in the papers,not on the BBC |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| General Election Thread on 20:51 - May 30 with 2289 views | BucksRanger |
| General Election Thread on 20:42 - May 30 by johncharles |
A piss in the ocean compared to Michelle Mone.
Anyone remember Dido Harding ? Not in the papers,not on the BBC |
You make it sound as if it's not worth getting the money back. I suppose their sentences are overly harsh too. | | | |
| General Election Thread on 21:45 - May 30 with 2208 views | Hayesender |
| General Election Thread on 10:34 - May 30 by Northernr |
I know it's not either or, and I know it's frustrating going out and slogging away for miniscule reward every day while other people scrounge (my first job was a sub-£15k annual salary with a 75 mile round commute on the M1), but it does always surprise me how much anger, coverage, chat this "benefits scroungers" stuff generates versus the fraud and the money being stripped out of the country at the top end through tax dodging, non-dom status etc by the super rich. Or the vast amounts of fraud around Covid, furlough, PPE - Michelle Mone and her like, who are sailing around on yachts never mind sitting around drinking Strongbow Dark Fruits all day. Quick £21bn lost to fraud in that alone they reckon. Or Charlotte Owen getting a lifetime gig in the House of Lords at 28 at our expense for reasons I couldn't possibly speculate on.
I mean, look at the money that's been stripped out of the water industry over decades, and the state of it now. We're 14 pages into this thread (which has gone pretty much as expected to this point) and nobody's really talking about how, in 2024, when we flush our toilet it goes in the bloody Thames!! Let's go for a nice walk by the river darling, we might see your tampon again. You go to the beach with your kids and your beer sht from the night before is there waiting for you. And those companies have bled billions out of that industry rather than invest in its infrastructure.
I don't know, isn't that more important, more financially damaging, to our country than somebody on a council estate with a big TV?
It makes me a lot angrier anyway. So much so that I've got involved in the thread when I swore to myself I wouldn't.
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Had a couple of friends down the weekend. Had a lovely lunch down by the harbour here. There was a nasty looking foamy sludge being washed up by the lifeboat ramp that looked anything but natural.
It's a national disgrace, and downright criminal what southern water are chucking into the sea down here, and the silence from the masses is deafening.
You see people swimming in it, and allowing their kids to splash about in it. I wouldn't even dip my toes into the sea down here |  |
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| General Election Thread on 21:55 - May 30 with 2197 views | loftboy |
| General Election Thread on 19:25 - May 30 by Watford_Ranger |
Pensions are officially a benefit and have been for some time. |
So why do you have to pay a certain amount in or get credits if you are unable to work to be able to claim it?
I would have paid onto the system for 51 years before I get my state pension, it states you need to have 39 years worth of contributions so why can’t we get it once we have done the 39? I do a very physical job and am dreading the thought of still doing it into my late 60’s. | |
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| General Election Thread on 22:02 - May 30 with 2182 views | 222gers |
| General Election Thread on 19:25 - May 30 by Watford_Ranger |
Pensions are officially a benefit and have been for some time. |
Just semantics. Call a pussy cat a tiger but it's still a pussy cat.
In no way should it be termed a benefit when discussed alongside things like Universal Credit. |  | | |
| General Election Thread on 22:16 - May 30 with 2143 views | CiderwithRsie |
The meaning of the word "benefit" is not a matter of debate or philosophical discussion, it is a legal term defined in Acts of Parliament, for example (from the Social Security Act 1998, including subsequent amendments:)
In this Chapter “relevant benefit” F42... means any of the following, namely—
(a)benefit under Parts II to V of the Contributions and Benefits Act;
[F43(aa)universal credit;]
[F44(ab)state pension or a lump sum under Part 1 of the Pensions Act 2014;]
[F45(ac)bereavement support payment under section 30 of the Pensions Act 2014;]
(b)a jobseeker’s allowance;
[F46(ba)an employment and support allowance;]
[F47(baa)personal independence payment;]
[F48(bb)state pension credit;]
[F49(bc)a loan under section 18 of the Welfare Reform and Work Act 2016;]
(c)income support;
F50(d). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
F50(e). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
(f)a social fund payment mentioned in section 138(1)(a) or (2) of the Contributions and Benefits Act;
(g)child benefit;
(h)such other benefit as may be prescribed." | | | |
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