| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin 13:00 - Apr 13 with 10028 views | QJumpingJack |
Ben Rumsby is running the story that Swansea are now set to sue Russell Martin for £2m for "breach of contract" |  | | |  |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 10:50 - Apr 14 with 1295 views | vetchonian |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 14:08 - Apr 13 by KeithHaynes |
He didn’t walk away, his case is he was constructively dismissed, the Swans launched an action last year. Both sides arguing ever since. The EFL wouldn’t allow it to fester from the summer to now. The report is a bit flawed on that point.
His constructive dismissal is believed to have happened around March 9th last year from the Steve Kaplan / Russell Martin meeting in a central London hotel prior to the Millwall away game. Then the cancellation of flights to Washington and their current regime not wanting to continue to employ him. That’s Martin’s case. Whatever the Swans is I’m certain they are going to have to work hard on this to defend Martin’s allegations. This doesn’t affect the compensation for staff who left with him. This again is being made personal by the club just like they did with Steve Cooper. The Swans are now merely fighting back with their own case on top of the legal actions of last year.
Also we have been keeping people uo to date on this website since Martin left. Either people don’t value the work put in to report that, have cognitive issues regards understanding the content or just want to have a go at Russell Martin.
Logic before lies.
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I'd he is claiming constructive dismissal stating the 9th of March as a key point he should have walked then then to justify his claim...that is usually the practice in employment law otherwise continuing employment is accepting the terms of the constructive dismissal....thoughbi suspect his defence is he left things to the end of the season foe the good of the club.
He would probably have stood on better ground had he walked in March | |
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 11:27 - Apr 14 with 1262 views | JumpingJackFlash |
Whoever is giving the club legal advice, I hope it’s better Legal advice than that received immediately after the stadium deal was completed.
Suing the builders wasn’t the best advice at the time and resulted in an embarrassing loss.
Our owners seem to like a suit. | | | |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 11:35 - Apr 14 with 1247 views | vetchonian |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 11:27 - Apr 14 by JumpingJackFlash |
Whoever is giving the club legal advice, I hope it’s better Legal advice than that received immediately after the stadium deal was completed.
Suing the builders wasn’t the best advice at the time and resulted in an embarrassing loss.
Our owners seem to like a suit. |
We'll they aree American and that's the land of litigation culture..
There are already precedent in law on a similar case where Iainn Dowie was sued by Crystal Palace.....
Also as I explained earlier Martins constrruucttivw dismissal may not hold water....but whatever happens its not a good look on the club | |
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 11:43 - Apr 14 with 1246 views | max936 |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 11:35 - Apr 14 by vetchonian |
We'll they aree American and that's the land of litigation culture..
There are already precedent in law on a similar case where Iainn Dowie was sued by Crystal Palace.....
Also as I explained earlier Martins constrruucttivw dismissal may not hold water....but whatever happens its not a good look on the club |
I don't think the club has a good look with some clubs managers or players etc, as it is! [Post edited 14 Apr 11:44]
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 11:57 - Apr 14 with 1221 views | KeithHaynes |
The main points as I see it.
1. Southampton haven’t paid the release clause in Martin’s contract and offered half. Yet he is their manager. They should have paid up.
2. Martin believes he was constructively dismissed, He was still Swansea manager in March. He could have believed at that time he was being ‘constructively’ dismissed, but he still had a job. The actual constructive dismissal came about when he left Swansea. For whatever reason without going in to it. Clearly the Swans disagreed. I would say that the realisation for a Martin came when his Washington trip was cancelled around the same time that Coleman and co were negotiating their own deal with Levien.
3. It’s odd that the club would sue Martin for a breaching his contract for the sum of two million when it’s Southampton who should have paid it. Or is that different ? Two bites at the cherry. It’s also odd the EFL haven’t secured an agreement, but if Southampton are playing hard ball in assisting Martin to breach his contract then it’s a stalemate.
4. I fall down on the Swans side here, they just wanted their agreed compensation as per Martin’s contract. It hasn’t been paid as the clause release hasn’t been paid in full, just an offer of half.
5. Martin believes he was constructively dismissed, that’s his case. The Swans have come back at him with with a counter claim. And Southampton have a manager who has led them to at least the play offs and are slowly wriggling away from paying anything.
Simple eh ?
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 12:28 - Apr 14 with 1198 views | vetchonian |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 11:57 - Apr 14 by KeithHaynes |
The main points as I see it.
1. Southampton haven’t paid the release clause in Martin’s contract and offered half. Yet he is their manager. They should have paid up.
2. Martin believes he was constructively dismissed, He was still Swansea manager in March. He could have believed at that time he was being ‘constructively’ dismissed, but he still had a job. The actual constructive dismissal came about when he left Swansea. For whatever reason without going in to it. Clearly the Swans disagreed. I would say that the realisation for a Martin came when his Washington trip was cancelled around the same time that Coleman and co were negotiating their own deal with Levien.
3. It’s odd that the club would sue Martin for a breaching his contract for the sum of two million when it’s Southampton who should have paid it. Or is that different ? Two bites at the cherry. It’s also odd the EFL haven’t secured an agreement, but if Southampton are playing hard ball in assisting Martin to breach his contract then it’s a stalemate.
4. I fall down on the Swans side here, they just wanted their agreed compensation as per Martin’s contract. It hasn’t been paid as the clause release hasn’t been paid in full, just an offer of half.
5. Martin believes he was constructively dismissed, that’s his case. The Swans have come back at him with with a counter claim. And Southampton have a manager who has led them to at least the play offs and are slowly wriggling away from paying anything.
Simple eh ?
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Good post that Keith... | |
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 12:56 - Apr 14 with 1183 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
How can it be constructive dismissal when he voluntarily left for more money at a more prestigious company? Whilst proclaiming publicly in the newspapers how much he loved it here and it was a massive wrench to leave but had to take the opportunity? To paraphrase he said it’s an amazing club with amazing people. Doesn’t sound like much of a toxic work environment to me. He may have had disagreements with the owners but not sanctioning transfers is well within their remit not his. |  |
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 13:31 - Apr 14 with 1161 views | KeithHaynes |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 12:56 - Apr 14 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
How can it be constructive dismissal when he voluntarily left for more money at a more prestigious company? Whilst proclaiming publicly in the newspapers how much he loved it here and it was a massive wrench to leave but had to take the opportunity? To paraphrase he said it’s an amazing club with amazing people. Doesn’t sound like much of a toxic work environment to me. He may have had disagreements with the owners but not sanctioning transfers is well within their remit not his. |
Well, he will have to prove it. And a timeline of events that he has proof of will result in the decision to be made. He will say he walked because of his mental health, already stated in February, and a series of events leading to him having to leave. That’s for him to prove.
I will add that due to this latest revelation he may instruct his law folk to cease the action, he may well have already, he may not. It could be it forms a part of Southamptons decision not to pay.
The deeper reasoning none of us knows.
An open mind is the only way to try and understand it.
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 13:56 - Apr 14 with 1132 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 13:31 - Apr 14 by KeithHaynes |
Well, he will have to prove it. And a timeline of events that he has proof of will result in the decision to be made. He will say he walked because of his mental health, already stated in February, and a series of events leading to him having to leave. That’s for him to prove.
I will add that due to this latest revelation he may instruct his law folk to cease the action, he may well have already, he may not. It could be it forms a part of Southamptons decision not to pay.
The deeper reasoning none of us knows.
An open mind is the only way to try and understand it.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
To reach anywhere near the threshold for constructive dismissal he will need to prove a real sustained campaign of harassment and ill treatment that goes beyond the normal pressures of such a high profile job. Not being supported in the transfer market or receiving criticism for only getting 2 wins in 5 months or whatever it was doesn’t count,
In terms of performance he was incredibly fortunate to be still employed at that point anyway. Most clubs would have sacked their manager after those results and terrible performances. | |
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 14:07 - Apr 14 with 1118 views | Whiterockin |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 13:56 - Apr 14 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
To reach anywhere near the threshold for constructive dismissal he will need to prove a real sustained campaign of harassment and ill treatment that goes beyond the normal pressures of such a high profile job. Not being supported in the transfer market or receiving criticism for only getting 2 wins in 5 months or whatever it was doesn’t count,
In terms of performance he was incredibly fortunate to be still employed at that point anyway. Most clubs would have sacked their manager after those results and terrible performances. |
The club could always employ OHL to put their case against Martin. |  | | |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 14:18 - Apr 14 with 1077 views | onehunglow |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 14:07 - Apr 14 by Whiterockin |
The club could always employ OHL to put their case against Martin. |
OHL has wiped him from his data phase  | |
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 14:20 - Apr 14 with 1075 views | onehunglow |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 17:33 - Apr 13 by vetchonian |
He was lucky to still be in a job on March 9th....most other clubs would have sacked long before given that disastrous run he took us on.
It's well known I didn't like him...but the support he gets still from certain corners is beyond me....even the Southampton fans are not totally enamoured with him |
It is nothing less than bizarre
He won nothing nor did he ever look likely too. | |
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 14:54 - Apr 14 with 1032 views | max936 |
Reading what he has said it seems that he feels quite relaxed about it all. [Post edited 14 Apr 14:55]
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 15:57 - Apr 14 with 961 views | KeithHaynes |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 14:20 - Apr 14 by onehunglow |
It is nothing less than bizarre
He won nothing nor did he ever look likely too. |
A contract clause is the issue, not his performance as a manager 🤷🏻♂️
Just like bigotry has nothing to do with Ross County v Rangers.
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 15:59 - Apr 14 with 953 views | ModeratorC |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 15:57 - Apr 14 by KeithHaynes |
A contract clause is the issue, not his performance as a manager 🤷🏻♂️
Just like bigotry has nothing to do with Ross County v Rangers.
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I’ve removed it. | | | |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 16:21 - Apr 14 with 896 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 12:56 - Apr 14 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
How can it be constructive dismissal when he voluntarily left for more money at a more prestigious company? Whilst proclaiming publicly in the newspapers how much he loved it here and it was a massive wrench to leave but had to take the opportunity? To paraphrase he said it’s an amazing club with amazing people. Doesn’t sound like much of a toxic work environment to me. He may have had disagreements with the owners but not sanctioning transfers is well within their remit not his. |
The January window is always tough and Sir Alex would often ignore it and sign no one. There was very little trade that window as there was a scarcity of good value options. Martin however played this disappointing window for all it's worth and seemed to lose motivation. He got Darling Fisher and Downed before but missed out on O'Reilly. He wanted a forward and the owners brought back Whitaker. When I worked I had to work with staff I did not rate. Whittaker was playing really well. Constructive dismissal but the other way around. |  |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 17:02 - Apr 14 with 859 views | QJumpingJack |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 16:21 - Apr 14 by ReslovenSwan1 |
The January window is always tough and Sir Alex would often ignore it and sign no one. There was very little trade that window as there was a scarcity of good value options. Martin however played this disappointing window for all it's worth and seemed to lose motivation. He got Darling Fisher and Downed before but missed out on O'Reilly. He wanted a forward and the owners brought back Whitaker. When I worked I had to work with staff I did not rate. Whittaker was playing really well. Constructive dismissal but the other way around. |
I probably wouldn't compare us to Man United and Sir Alex.
Sir Alex had the great David Gill supporting him.
It is obvious that the club in the last 8 years has struggled to create the correct structure (which would allow some consistency)
The closest we got was the Birch-Cooper partnership (two play-offs). | | | |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 17:51 - Apr 14 with 799 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 17:02 - Apr 14 by QJumpingJack |
I probably wouldn't compare us to Man United and Sir Alex.
Sir Alex had the great David Gill supporting him.
It is obvious that the club in the last 8 years has struggled to create the correct structure (which would allow some consistency)
The closest we got was the Birch-Cooper partnership (two play-offs). |
Some managers who make big mistakes like to deflect criticism to the club administration. This has been going on g for years. January windows are usually a good time to complain when things are not going to plan.
Cooper did it when he could not get Keinan Davis despite having a raw Gyorkeres in the building and available for a small fee. Managers are never wrong in their eyes. Cooper had a stinker in not seeing Gyorkeres s potential. If he has managed well he had a front two of Gyorkers and Piroe. Instead he blamed everyone else and walked. Martin played the same game knowing the fans would by default blame the owners.
Your post shows that you have followed the narrative laid out for you by the managers who see Swansea as a stepping stone.
Cooper stated about Gyorkers "there a real good player in there". So why did he not push to sign him? Why should he.? He knew in the 18 months needed to develop him he would be long gone. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 18:03 - Apr 14 with 790 views | QJumpingJack |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 17:51 - Apr 14 by ReslovenSwan1 |
Some managers who make big mistakes like to deflect criticism to the club administration. This has been going on g for years. January windows are usually a good time to complain when things are not going to plan.
Cooper did it when he could not get Keinan Davis despite having a raw Gyorkeres in the building and available for a small fee. Managers are never wrong in their eyes. Cooper had a stinker in not seeing Gyorkeres s potential. If he has managed well he had a front two of Gyorkers and Piroe. Instead he blamed everyone else and walked. Martin played the same game knowing the fans would by default blame the owners.
Your post shows that you have followed the narrative laid out for you by the managers who see Swansea as a stepping stone.
Cooper stated about Gyorkers "there a real good player in there". So why did he not push to sign him? Why should he.? He knew in the 18 months needed to develop him he would be long gone. |
maybe Levien and Kaplan would not sanction the move? & lets remember his record was 11 appearances 0 goals.
I can't remember any Swans fan at the time believing he would be the answer. [Post edited 14 Apr 18:05]
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 18:09 - Apr 14 with 777 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 18:03 - Apr 14 by QJumpingJack |
maybe Levien and Kaplan would not sanction the move? & lets remember his record was 11 appearances 0 goals.
I can't remember any Swans fan at the time believing he would be the answer. [Post edited 14 Apr 18:05]
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My overriding memory is of him being completely and utterly useless. | |
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 18:15 - Apr 14 with 771 views | onehunglow |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 15:57 - Apr 14 by KeithHaynes |
A contract clause is the issue, not his performance as a manager 🤷🏻♂️
Just like bigotry has nothing to do with Ross County v Rangers.
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My comments regarding bigotry applies to both Celtic and rangers
Neither club represents purity in sport
Both clubs histories evidence just that
You won't find me commenting ever again thus | |
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 18:33 - Apr 14 with 761 views | ReslovenSwan1 |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 18:09 - Apr 14 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
My overriding memory is of him being completely and utterly useless. |
I watched a full game v Stevenage and he scored and gave away a penalty. He looked decent no world beater but had a clear potential at 21. Cooper saw this in training and saw improvements. He prefered Lowe. He actually scored a neat crip near post header.
Swansea do score these types of goal but Cardiff loan players do much better like yesterday. Cullen Lowe and Yates would never score agoal like that.
Martin prefered Cullen over the superior Whitaker who he virtually forced out of the club. | |
| Wise sage since Toshack era |
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 18:34 - Apr 14 with 760 views | onehunglow |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 18:33 - Apr 14 by ReslovenSwan1 |
I watched a full game v Stevenage and he scored and gave away a penalty. He looked decent no world beater but had a clear potential at 21. Cooper saw this in training and saw improvements. He prefered Lowe. He actually scored a neat crip near post header.
Swansea do score these types of goal but Cardiff loan players do much better like yesterday. Cullen Lowe and Yates would never score agoal like that.
Martin prefered Cullen over the superior Whitaker who he virtually forced out of the club. |
Doing much this summer? | |
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| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 18:39 - Apr 14 with 751 views | Whiterockin |
| The Telegraph: Swansea-Russell Martin on 18:34 - Apr 14 by onehunglow |
Doing much this summer? |
Possibly trying to get a life and losing a couple of obsessions.  | | | |
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