| Leaders 15:16 - Mar 6 with 2533 views | johngdavis |
Interesting piece in the Sunday Times today by Graeme Souness it’s about Man U but I think it might apply to is.The two main points are that you need at least one big mouthed leader in the team and you must work harder than the opposition. Listening to the MW post match interview he says that the young players are very quiet and don’t communicate, he also said that we played the second half at testimonial pace. In other words no leaders and not working hard enough. Does our change in fortunes go back to seeing much less of Charlie Austen? He has perhaps had issues surrounding his personal life form and fitness but is most definitely a leader and I’m sure is capable of setting standards in training and in games that we might be missing. I can’t see any other vocal leaders in the team except perhaps LW or SJ and they look pretty quiet in games. |  | | |  |
| Leaders on 16:01 - Mar 6 with 2419 views | MedwayR |
There's definitely an element of this to our team. The Warnock team had Kenny, Orr, Hill, Derry, Mackie to name a few who would be vocal and lead. We certainly don't have any like this except for Austin. |  |
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| Leaders on 16:35 - Mar 6 with 2351 views | Antti_Heinola |
Not sure about that. Wallace is a leader. So is Stef. So is Dunne increasingly. I'm not sure we can really level that one at this team, although two of them weren't playing yesterday. |  |
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| Leaders on 10:07 - Mar 7 with 2080 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Leaders on 16:35 - Mar 6 by Antti_Heinola |
Not sure about that. Wallace is a leader. So is Stef. So is Dunne increasingly. I'm not sure we can really level that one at this team, although two of them weren't playing yesterday. |
The role of the captain is to be the voice of the manager on the pitch. He needs to be vocal, encouraging, driven and lead from the front.
Leadership, in the old fashion sense, that Souness, along with Neville and Keane following their comments regarding Utd’s capitulation, appears to be on the wane.
Having said that, this team has shown on plenty of occasions that it has the grit and determination to battle to the end and has claimed many a scalp by doing so.
Why then, has it suddenly turned into a timid, unconfident outfit, scared to pass the ball forward.
The confidence and belief appears to have evaporated, despite a first half on Saturday where the signs of our old self were there for all to see.
This is the dilemma. The finger pointing at Chair and Hendricks and others is utter bolloks. I haven’t been happy with our wing back situation for months and the striker situation has been no better. But this is the squad that got us to where we are now. This is absolutely a collective effort. If we lose a game because of an individual error, or a sublime piece of skill, fine, we can live with that. What we can’t live with is feeling sorry for ourselves and dropping our heads. That’s when the captain has to earn his salt. Get your fukcing heads up and go again.
Hopefully, following his comments post match on Saturday, Warburton is finally going to have a grown up conversation with the lads and stop being over protective of sensitive egos in this new era of snowflake football management.
For anyone having watched and played the game competitively in the 90’s and 00’s, watching the football of this generation is sometimes exhilarating, but often it seriously grinds your gears.
Neville and Keane were right (although the didn’t say it outright). Back in their day, they may well have lost the game, but the City players would be carrying a few cuts and bruises to show for it.
“Maximum effort, Minimum requirement”…..Sean Dyche.
Ramble over. | | | |
| Leaders on 11:16 - Mar 7 with 2028 views | Rangers67 |
I think MW letting rip after Saturdays game was 4 or 5 games too late. After the Barnsley game was when he should have let them have both barrels. On Sat we played quite well in the first half without making the most of our dominance. At half time we should have realised they would come out and give it a go. Instead we piss balled about with it and they gradually grew into the game. So the question is if MW is watching the game as we were and he thought the pace was testimonial why didn’t he do something about it ? Maybe he tried and no one took any notice but if that’s true that raises further questions. I agree that we lack leadership on the pitch, I think Wallace was skipper until subbed of and I can’t recall once seeing him bending anyones ear or more importantly the refs. I dislike this chasing the ref around and lecturing him as much as the next fan but when you get the standard of refs we have had this season I am convinced it has an effect . These refs are so weak and compliant they will give in eventually and other teams seem to do it much more than us. Lastly where have all the nasty players gone ? On Sat Hugill Iwas basically physically assaulting anyone within 3 yards of him when the ball was punted up to him . Now if the ref is going to do nothing about it then you have to sort it yourself . Lastly I thought Cardiff were a poor team that we should never have lost to but they were very clever at off the ball fouls and along with an inept refereeing performance plus our own lack of leadership and desire meant we lost. | | | |
| Leaders on 11:55 - Mar 7 with 1968 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Leaders on 10:07 - Mar 7 by Burnleyhoop |
The role of the captain is to be the voice of the manager on the pitch. He needs to be vocal, encouraging, driven and lead from the front.
Leadership, in the old fashion sense, that Souness, along with Neville and Keane following their comments regarding Utd’s capitulation, appears to be on the wane.
Having said that, this team has shown on plenty of occasions that it has the grit and determination to battle to the end and has claimed many a scalp by doing so.
Why then, has it suddenly turned into a timid, unconfident outfit, scared to pass the ball forward.
The confidence and belief appears to have evaporated, despite a first half on Saturday where the signs of our old self were there for all to see.
This is the dilemma. The finger pointing at Chair and Hendricks and others is utter bolloks. I haven’t been happy with our wing back situation for months and the striker situation has been no better. But this is the squad that got us to where we are now. This is absolutely a collective effort. If we lose a game because of an individual error, or a sublime piece of skill, fine, we can live with that. What we can’t live with is feeling sorry for ourselves and dropping our heads. That’s when the captain has to earn his salt. Get your fukcing heads up and go again.
Hopefully, following his comments post match on Saturday, Warburton is finally going to have a grown up conversation with the lads and stop being over protective of sensitive egos in this new era of snowflake football management.
For anyone having watched and played the game competitively in the 90’s and 00’s, watching the football of this generation is sometimes exhilarating, but often it seriously grinds your gears.
Neville and Keane were right (although the didn’t say it outright). Back in their day, they may well have lost the game, but the City players would be carrying a few cuts and bruises to show for it.
“Maximum effort, Minimum requirement”…..Sean Dyche.
Ramble over. |
I don't buy into that 'wouldn't have happened in our day' nonsense. One of the most famous games of the 70s is Leeds battering Southampton and keeping the ball for about 20 minutes without anyone receiving a broken leg. Yes, in Keane's case, he may well have nobbled someone out of spite (Haaland, Southgate and many others can attest to that), but that sort of behaviour is childish and pathetic - bugger all about leadership. They were wimpy against us when we beat them 4-1 too. A lot of rose tinted glasses going on, and while I agree plenty of football today can be insipid with its slow sideways passing, I have sat through awful games in the 80s and 90s that were just as bad, and with a lot less technical quality on show.
I also don't think MW is being protective of egos and the fact is we none of us know what he says behond closed doors. Fergie's rule: never sell out your own players to the press. And he never did. Not even when their actions were clearly indefensible. Bawling and shouting might get you the odd result once in a while, but it's a weapon that needs to be used extraordinarily sparingly for it to have a good effect. | |
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| Leaders on 12:19 - Mar 7 with 1919 views | DannytheR |
| Leaders on 11:55 - Mar 7 by Antti_Heinola |
I don't buy into that 'wouldn't have happened in our day' nonsense. One of the most famous games of the 70s is Leeds battering Southampton and keeping the ball for about 20 minutes without anyone receiving a broken leg. Yes, in Keane's case, he may well have nobbled someone out of spite (Haaland, Southgate and many others can attest to that), but that sort of behaviour is childish and pathetic - bugger all about leadership. They were wimpy against us when we beat them 4-1 too. A lot of rose tinted glasses going on, and while I agree plenty of football today can be insipid with its slow sideways passing, I have sat through awful games in the 80s and 90s that were just as bad, and with a lot less technical quality on show.
I also don't think MW is being protective of egos and the fact is we none of us know what he says behond closed doors. Fergie's rule: never sell out your own players to the press. And he never did. Not even when their actions were clearly indefensible. Bawling and shouting might get you the odd result once in a while, but it's a weapon that needs to be used extraordinarily sparingly for it to have a good effect. |
Also might be something telling in the fact that Souness, Keane and Neville all had non-events of careers in management. (In Souness' case, long before the era of "snowflakes".) |  | | |
| Leaders on 12:50 - Mar 7 with 1861 views | Burnleyhoop |
| Leaders on 11:55 - Mar 7 by Antti_Heinola |
I don't buy into that 'wouldn't have happened in our day' nonsense. One of the most famous games of the 70s is Leeds battering Southampton and keeping the ball for about 20 minutes without anyone receiving a broken leg. Yes, in Keane's case, he may well have nobbled someone out of spite (Haaland, Southgate and many others can attest to that), but that sort of behaviour is childish and pathetic - bugger all about leadership. They were wimpy against us when we beat them 4-1 too. A lot of rose tinted glasses going on, and while I agree plenty of football today can be insipid with its slow sideways passing, I have sat through awful games in the 80s and 90s that were just as bad, and with a lot less technical quality on show.
I also don't think MW is being protective of egos and the fact is we none of us know what he says behond closed doors. Fergie's rule: never sell out your own players to the press. And he never did. Not even when their actions were clearly indefensible. Bawling and shouting might get you the odd result once in a while, but it's a weapon that needs to be used extraordinarily sparingly for it to have a good effect. |
Ferguson had a fierce reputation for giving his players the “hair dryer” treatment, it was common knowledge by everyone in football. His players were scared shitless by him.
There is, however, a time and a place for putting your arm around your players and a time for giving them a kick up the arse.
Good management is about knowing when to use it.
Like everything in life, balance is required. Warburton’s patience finally snapped after Saturday’s second half performance. Maybe a bit of an arse kicking is overdue, although this is likely to be very uncomfortable for him as it is definitely not his preferred management style.
Ultimately, someone has to take responsibility out on the pitch and I certainly wasn’t advocating going around breaking legs. The captain should recognise what is going wrong and communicating effectively to recover the situation. If we had continued to work hard and keep our shape, we would have won that game comfortably. We didn’t. We regressed into the lazy and laboured style of fannying around at the back and losing possession easily. That is not what the manager wanted and what the captain out on the pitch should have nipped in the bud. | | | |
| Leaders on 13:22 - Mar 7 with 1787 views | derbyhoop |
Rule of management #232
Praise in public
Bollockings in private.
None of us know what MW says on training ground |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Leaders on 13:20 - Mar 8 with 1522 views | TacticalR |
An interminable discussion is going on about whether Manchester United players don't care or are not good enough. The discussion itself is becoming one of the main spectator sports in this country. |  |
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