| Share sale 11:34 - Jun 3 with 65180 views | fitzochris |
I understand the shares owned by Chris Dunphy, Bill Goodwin and Paul Hazelhurst have been sold to a US-based concern.
Keep an eye on Companies House over the coming weeks. |  |
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| Share sale on 16:31 - Jun 3 with 3846 views | mikehunt |
The only way anyone is likely to monetize anything at our club is if all the other teams around us go tits up and their supporters decide they would like to come and watch us. But they are welcome to try (at their expense of course), Enjoy the ride anyone? |  |
| The worm of time turns not for the cuckoo of circumstance. |
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| Share sale on 16:33 - Jun 3 with 3834 views | D_Alien |
| Share sale on 15:08 - Jun 3 by fermin |
'We think that one of the best ways to monetize analytics is to go to Europe, buy a lower division club and get promoted. We think that’s a great way to create value for investors.'
Somehow that rings alarm bells with me. I am not sure I want the club to be an investment vehicle and would we really make money in the Championship? It is a big if that we would get there anyway? Wouldn't it be a bit of change in the club culture? Perhaps I misunderstand how these sort of things and we are in a bit of a different financial climate now, I suppose. |
And if that were to happen, and their analytics business took off in the wider football world, i doubt they'd want to keep their investment in "a lower division football club" but expand elsewhere; leaving that "lower division football club" potentially on it's arse and/or with a majority shareholding sold to god knows who |  |
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| Share sale on 16:35 - Jun 3 with 3825 views | ncfc_chalky |
| Share sale on 16:26 - Jun 3 by judd |
How so? |
Sometimes I will put in the odd post just to see how many Fook Off Chalkys I can get and I'm pretty disappointed with your reply judd tbf  |  |
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| Share sale on 16:55 - Jun 3 with 3747 views | judd |
| Share sale on 16:35 - Jun 3 by ncfc_chalky |
Sometimes I will put in the odd post just to see how many Fook Off Chalkys I can get and I'm pretty disappointed with your reply judd tbf |
The new moderators won't allow personal abuse any more.
So fook off |  |
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| Share sale on 17:05 - Jun 3 with 3717 views | ncfc_chalky |
| Share sale on 16:55 - Jun 3 by judd |
The new moderators won't allow personal abuse any more.
So fook off |
If any of the moderators are watching then I don't see F.O.C. as abuse to myself and just a bit of tongue in cheek banter  | |
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| Share sale on 17:07 - Jun 3 with 3708 views | James1980 |
| Share sale on 16:31 - Jun 3 by mikehunt |
The only way anyone is likely to monetize anything at our club is if all the other teams around us go tits up and their supporters decide they would like to come and watch us. But they are welcome to try (at their expense of course), Enjoy the ride anyone? |
OL11 weekender anyone? |  |
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| Share sale on 17:23 - Jun 3 with 3666 views | 442Dale |
| Share sale on 14:09 - Jun 3 by 100notout |
New shares by TTNYear 7 Mar 2020 19:46Apparently new/more shares are being issued from the club... this needs discussing.
Notably David Kilpatrick, Graham Morris and Dale Trust own c67k shares between them which is c13% of the shares in issue |
Thank you. Thought I was imagining it! |  |
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| Share sale on 20:29 - Jun 3 with 3447 views | blackdogblue |
| Share sale on 17:23 - Jun 3 by 442Dale |
Thank you. Thought I was imagining it! |
Fook off Chalky is now an established catchphrase same as James where’s the poll 
Neither cause offence & If that’s banned or censored we might as well all delete our accounts 😀 |  |
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| Share sale on 21:24 - Jun 3 with 3347 views | Sandyman |
For whatever reason , there is clearly some interest in the club by "outsiders" , hence the EGM that should've been held in March. The (potential) sale of shares by ex-board members was surely a concern.
Resolutions
1. THAT, in accordance with paragraph 42(2)(b) of Schedule 2 of the Companies Act 2006 (Commencement No. 8, Transitional Provisions and Savings) Order 2008, the restriction on the authorised share capital of the Company be revoked and deleted from the Company’s memorandum of association.
2. THAT, subject to the passing of resolution 1, in accordance with section 551 of the Companies Act 2006, the directors of the Company (Directors) be generally and unconditionally authorised to allot shares in the Company up to an aggregate nominal amount of £348,521.50 provided that —
a. this authority shall, unless renewed, varied or revoked by the Company, expire at not less than 5 years from the date this resolution is passed; and
b. all shares allotted pursuant to the authorisation hereby conferred shall be so allotted at no less than £6 per share.
3. AND, in the event that resolution 1 is not passed, in accordance with section 551 of the Companies Act 2006, the Directors be generally and unconditionally authorised to allot shares in the Company up to an aggregate nominal amount of £198,521.50, which is the limit of the Company’s authorised share capital, provided that —
a. this authority shall, unless renewed, varied or revoked by the Company, expire at not less than 5 years from the date this resolution is passed; and
b. all shares allotted pursuant to the authorisation hereby conferred shall be so allotted at no less than £6 per share.
4. That, subject to the passing of resolution 2 or 3 and, in accordance with section 570 of the Companies Act 2006, the Directors be generally empowered to allot equity securities (as defined in section 560 of the Companies Act 2006) pursuant to the authority conferred by resolution 2, as if section 561(1) of the CA 2006 did not apply to any such allotment |  | | |
| Share sale on 22:08 - Jun 3 with 3269 views | judd |
| Share sale on 21:24 - Jun 3 by Sandyman |
For whatever reason , there is clearly some interest in the club by "outsiders" , hence the EGM that should've been held in March. The (potential) sale of shares by ex-board members was surely a concern.
Resolutions
1. THAT, in accordance with paragraph 42(2)(b) of Schedule 2 of the Companies Act 2006 (Commencement No. 8, Transitional Provisions and Savings) Order 2008, the restriction on the authorised share capital of the Company be revoked and deleted from the Company’s memorandum of association.
2. THAT, subject to the passing of resolution 1, in accordance with section 551 of the Companies Act 2006, the directors of the Company (Directors) be generally and unconditionally authorised to allot shares in the Company up to an aggregate nominal amount of £348,521.50 provided that —
a. this authority shall, unless renewed, varied or revoked by the Company, expire at not less than 5 years from the date this resolution is passed; and
b. all shares allotted pursuant to the authorisation hereby conferred shall be so allotted at no less than £6 per share.
3. AND, in the event that resolution 1 is not passed, in accordance with section 551 of the Companies Act 2006, the Directors be generally and unconditionally authorised to allot shares in the Company up to an aggregate nominal amount of £198,521.50, which is the limit of the Company’s authorised share capital, provided that —
a. this authority shall, unless renewed, varied or revoked by the Company, expire at not less than 5 years from the date this resolution is passed; and
b. all shares allotted pursuant to the authorisation hereby conferred shall be so allotted at no less than £6 per share.
4. That, subject to the passing of resolution 2 or 3 and, in accordance with section 570 of the Companies Act 2006, the Directors be generally empowered to allot equity securities (as defined in section 560 of the Companies Act 2006) pursuant to the authority conferred by resolution 2, as if section 561(1) of the CA 2006 did not apply to any such allotment |
There was certainly palpable disdain shown toward Dunphy at the forum that preceded the EGM announcement. | |
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| Share sale on 22:24 - Jun 3 with 3230 views | Brierls |
There’s some interesting stuff out there on Altman. It looks like he’s got his own analytical football ‘scouting’ system that he believes predicts how players will perform at different levels of the game. A similar method to ‘Moneyball’, which used statistics over traditional scouting and knowledge.
It looks like he left Swansea after owners didn’t fully embrace his system. It would be much easier to employ such a system if you owned the club. I’m not sure I’m keen, but I suppose if any club need to get maximum return on their limited investment then it’s us. |  | | |
| Share sale on 22:32 - Jun 3 with 3210 views | judd |
| Share sale on 22:24 - Jun 3 by Brierls |
There’s some interesting stuff out there on Altman. It looks like he’s got his own analytical football ‘scouting’ system that he believes predicts how players will perform at different levels of the game. A similar method to ‘Moneyball’, which used statistics over traditional scouting and knowledge.
It looks like he left Swansea after owners didn’t fully embrace his system. It would be much easier to employ such a system if you owned the club. I’m not sure I’m keen, but I suppose if any club need to get maximum return on their limited investment then it’s us. |
He doesn't get good press in the articles posted but I'd imagine that Dunphy has done his own due diligence in choosing to sell his significant shareholding to Altman. | |
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| Share sale on 22:45 - Jun 3 with 3173 views | Brierls |
| Share sale on 22:32 - Jun 3 by judd |
He doesn't get good press in the articles posted but I'd imagine that Dunphy has done his own due diligence in choosing to sell his significant shareholding to Altman. |
Agreed. I can’t imagine Chris Dunphy selling to anybody that he thought would or could harm the club. | | | |
| Share sale on 23:06 - Jun 3 with 3126 views | D_Alien |
| Share sale on 22:24 - Jun 3 by Brierls |
There’s some interesting stuff out there on Altman. It looks like he’s got his own analytical football ‘scouting’ system that he believes predicts how players will perform at different levels of the game. A similar method to ‘Moneyball’, which used statistics over traditional scouting and knowledge.
It looks like he left Swansea after owners didn’t fully embrace his system. It would be much easier to employ such a system if you owned the club. I’m not sure I’m keen, but I suppose if any club need to get maximum return on their limited investment then it’s us. |
Another interpretation might be a maximum waste of investment on a charlatan peddling a load of mumbo-jum... erm pseudo-scientific nonsense | |
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| Share sale on 23:18 - Jun 3 with 3104 views | SuddenLad |
| Share sale on 22:45 - Jun 3 by Brierls |
Agreed. I can’t imagine Chris Dunphy selling to anybody that he thought would or could harm the club. |
That's the key to it all as far as I'm concerned. CD is as big a fan of Dale as anyone of us and has been for all his life. The last thing he would do, is to try and jeopardise the future of the club or willingly create a sh!tstorm that spelled endless heartache for the club.
Chris Dunphy (along with Bill Goodwin and the family of Paul Hazelhurst) willingly enabling a BL9 situation to happen here is utterly unthinkable. |  |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Share sale on 23:30 - Jun 3 with 3084 views | D_Alien |
| Share sale on 23:18 - Jun 3 by SuddenLad |
That's the key to it all as far as I'm concerned. CD is as big a fan of Dale as anyone of us and has been for all his life. The last thing he would do, is to try and jeopardise the future of the club or willingly create a sh!tstorm that spelled endless heartache for the club.
Chris Dunphy (along with Bill Goodwin and the family of Paul Hazelhurst) willingly enabling a BL9 situation to happen here is utterly unthinkable. |
I'm afraid i don't share your faith. Not that i think former directors would deliberately seek to undermine the club, but that there's just no accounting for the law of unintended consequences | |
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| Share sale on 01:51 - Jun 4 with 2986 views | DiddyDave |
To say this bloke is a Yank investor is reason enough to be alarmed and I for one am bitterly disappointed that Dunphy and the others have sold their shares to this bloke,if of course,this story is true. There`ll be an ulterior motive in getting involved in a small club like ours as has been reported. This is just a start,Altman has just dipped his toes into the water,who will be next to sell out? | | | |
| Share sale on 03:32 - Jun 4 with 2956 views | pioneer |
| Share sale on 22:24 - Jun 3 by Brierls |
There’s some interesting stuff out there on Altman. It looks like he’s got his own analytical football ‘scouting’ system that he believes predicts how players will perform at different levels of the game. A similar method to ‘Moneyball’, which used statistics over traditional scouting and knowledge.
It looks like he left Swansea after owners didn’t fully embrace his system. It would be much easier to employ such a system if you owned the club. I’m not sure I’m keen, but I suppose if any club need to get maximum return on their limited investment then it’s us. |
The moneyball Oakland athletics qualified for the MLB play offs 10 times in the last 20 years, but that is the easy part - each division is only a handful of teams and you can qualify by finishing second or third in the division as a wild card. In those 10 play off series they won once and were swept in the next round. They havent won a championship (that is the American League Championship in their case) since 1990 well before moneyball
Moneyball is a bit of a myth in terms of sporting success. It was a success in terms of financial survival of a struggling franchise - but that was partly associated with MLB rules that allowed the franchise to control players contracts for 6 years keeping their wages 'low' until they hit free agency. Just think what that would mean for a club like Dale given the young players we have produced instead of having to sell early for fear of getting (next to) nothing. | | | |
| Share sale on 08:09 - Jun 4 with 2842 views | Daley_Lama |
| Share sale on 03:32 - Jun 4 by pioneer |
The moneyball Oakland athletics qualified for the MLB play offs 10 times in the last 20 years, but that is the easy part - each division is only a handful of teams and you can qualify by finishing second or third in the division as a wild card. In those 10 play off series they won once and were swept in the next round. They havent won a championship (that is the American League Championship in their case) since 1990 well before moneyball
Moneyball is a bit of a myth in terms of sporting success. It was a success in terms of financial survival of a struggling franchise - but that was partly associated with MLB rules that allowed the franchise to control players contracts for 6 years keeping their wages 'low' until they hit free agency. Just think what that would mean for a club like Dale given the young players we have produced instead of having to sell early for fear of getting (next to) nothing. |
Can we get new sofas to sit on as we analyse why there are bigger queues for McDonald’s than on a Sat afternoon at Spotland? |  |
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| Share sale on 08:25 - Jun 4 with 2818 views | judd |
| Share sale on 08:09 - Jun 4 by Daley_Lama |
Can we get new sofas to sit on as we analyse why there are bigger queues for McDonald’s than on a Sat afternoon at Spotland? |
I suppose that will depend on whether or not DFS have a sale on. | |
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| Share sale on 09:43 - Jun 4 with 2713 views | fitzochris |
Despite being told the contrary, I can find no evidence that Altman actually put any of his own money into Swansea. Alun Cowie, CEO at Swansea, however, gave him the thumbs up to Chris Dunphy, when asked, so who knows?
As it stands, Altman owns somewhere between 15-18% of the shares issued. He will need more than that to sustain his interest and other current board members have recently strengthened their own position in that area, I understand, making this unlikely.
I have shared this information as I believe it is in the supporters’ interests to know who is holding the strings at our club, as much as I like the attention (TM Dickster).
I also understand the Chris Dunphy et al shares were sold before the current pandemic, so interest in buying shares in lower league clubs has understandably waned since then.
What we have to ask ourselves is this. What do we want for our football club? Chris Dunphy sought out overseas investment because he realised that, even with his resources, the club wouldn’t kick on and would eventually go backwards. The current board have even less resources to call on.
While we want the club to remain locally owned, the kind of person we need that fits that criteria just isn’t there. We need external investment. But that leads to another question - why would anyone with no emotional attachment to the club want to invest in it? What’s in it for them? That is hard to see on the surface.
It’s Catch 22 for all concerned. [Post edited 4 Jun 2020 9:49]
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| Share sale on 10:02 - Jun 4 with 2654 views | jonahwhereru |
Feel uncomfortable with this new investor. The term monetise has a transient and cold feel to it. Short term gain is rarely obtained without some collateral damage.
Playing the long game by developing acadamy graduates doesn’t seem to fit with short term gain.
Mind you I said I didn’t trust the CEO but have actually that frosty view is starting to thaw. | | | |
| Share sale on 10:20 - Jun 4 with 2619 views | NorthernDale |
I must admit, I am wary about Altman purchase of shares and why would he invest in Rochdale? I look at other teams that have taken foreign money at our level and the disaster that as developed, i.e Oldham and Macclesfield for example. In Oldham case he appointed some poor managers and signed some extremely poor players from Europe lower league, there is questions if he as any money to put into the Biffo's. It is the same with Macclesfield, with a owner who is close to destroying the club through his attitude to paying wages.
I know Brentford owner runs a similar company and apparently got rid of Mark Warburton because he would not sign players based on the analytical data system. You could argue that the success that Brentford have achieved in recent years as proved Michael Benham (the owner) correct in his approach.
However would we sign players based on what they would bring the club and the team or the potential selling value, if we adopt the last option, then for every good signing, we could sign a dozen poor signings which could detrimental. So that is why I am wary about his investment in the club. | | | |
| Share sale on 10:41 - Jun 4 with 2590 views | RAFCBLUE |
These are indeed interesting times and play on the issues that were coming to the fore from the never held EGM.
My first observation is that to transfer shares in RAFC you need the permission of the club to do so, so if the OP understanding is correct then the club will have been involved here and have knowledge of this and sanctioned it.
It will not just have happened by happy accident.
The hard thing about being an investor in shares of Rochdale AFC is that you will struggle to get your money back.
Chris Dunphy, Bill Goodwin and Paul Hazelhurst (RIP) all served the club magnificently but the facts remains that a significant portion of wealth is tied up in an illiquid lower division football club.
Investors have a right to seek realisation of their investment, whether we like it or not. We are not a charity.
I think I am right in saying that Chris Dunphy has not set foot in the ground since stepping down as Chairman and his longstanding relationship fractured by what went on in leading to a change of Chairman.
I can see why an investor in our club might want to get their money out, for reasons personal to them and there is no problem with that.
That brings us to the new concern of the possible new shareholder(s) / owner(s).
We know there is a lot of money in football globally and the trend globally is for a network of clubs to be acquired with the view of monetising how the TV rights work.
If you think about our existence we have done well out of the talent identification and improvement model. I can think of probably 30 players in my time watching Dale the we have bought, improved and sold on to keep the club going.
But for Coronavirus, we might have seen Brentford in the Premier League and perhaps we still shall. Their success has been down to exactly the type of player identification strategy being discussed here which is done on cold analytical data, investment financing and financial return.
I know those words will send a shiver down the spines of many who follow our club, particularly given what happened at Lower Gigg and that is football now with the ancillary bit being the matchday experience and the entertainment industry part that circles back into the value of the media rights.
Matthew Benham (Brentford) and Dan Altman (Swansea) to name but two are a number of individuals who worked out that using data and not emotion on players bring financial reward.
I have seen work in this space and when you can loan money to a club, to buy a player that they then develop and grow then sell, there is a lot of cash to be generated. The career of Carlos Teves is a case-study in what is possible if you are switched on and can find and develop the right players.
Finally, if there is a general concern that fans would like to control their ownership destiny then there is only one way to do that and that is through their Trust and their Trust making a decent ownership stake in that club. Exeter City is the best example that I can think of to how that can be done well but the appetite needs to be there. [Post edited 4 Jun 2020 10:41]
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| Share sale on 10:56 - Jun 4 with 2552 views | fitzochris |
| Share sale on 10:41 - Jun 4 by RAFCBLUE |
These are indeed interesting times and play on the issues that were coming to the fore from the never held EGM.
My first observation is that to transfer shares in RAFC you need the permission of the club to do so, so if the OP understanding is correct then the club will have been involved here and have knowledge of this and sanctioned it.
It will not just have happened by happy accident.
The hard thing about being an investor in shares of Rochdale AFC is that you will struggle to get your money back.
Chris Dunphy, Bill Goodwin and Paul Hazelhurst (RIP) all served the club magnificently but the facts remains that a significant portion of wealth is tied up in an illiquid lower division football club.
Investors have a right to seek realisation of their investment, whether we like it or not. We are not a charity.
I think I am right in saying that Chris Dunphy has not set foot in the ground since stepping down as Chairman and his longstanding relationship fractured by what went on in leading to a change of Chairman.
I can see why an investor in our club might want to get their money out, for reasons personal to them and there is no problem with that.
That brings us to the new concern of the possible new shareholder(s) / owner(s).
We know there is a lot of money in football globally and the trend globally is for a network of clubs to be acquired with the view of monetising how the TV rights work.
If you think about our existence we have done well out of the talent identification and improvement model. I can think of probably 30 players in my time watching Dale the we have bought, improved and sold on to keep the club going.
But for Coronavirus, we might have seen Brentford in the Premier League and perhaps we still shall. Their success has been down to exactly the type of player identification strategy being discussed here which is done on cold analytical data, investment financing and financial return.
I know those words will send a shiver down the spines of many who follow our club, particularly given what happened at Lower Gigg and that is football now with the ancillary bit being the matchday experience and the entertainment industry part that circles back into the value of the media rights.
Matthew Benham (Brentford) and Dan Altman (Swansea) to name but two are a number of individuals who worked out that using data and not emotion on players bring financial reward.
I have seen work in this space and when you can loan money to a club, to buy a player that they then develop and grow then sell, there is a lot of cash to be generated. The career of Carlos Teves is a case-study in what is possible if you are switched on and can find and develop the right players.
Finally, if there is a general concern that fans would like to control their ownership destiny then there is only one way to do that and that is through their Trust and their Trust making a decent ownership stake in that club. Exeter City is the best example that I can think of to how that can be done well but the appetite needs to be there. [Post edited 4 Jun 2020 10:41]
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I’m told all articles of association were adhered to in this sale. | |
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