| Tummer, WTF! on 18:08 - Aug 5 with 2091 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Tummer, WTF! on 17:59 - Aug 5 by Luther27 |
To be fair Lisa I'd like to think no sane person would do what the gunmen did to innocent people. |
There’s a difference between us thinking people can’t possibly be ‘sane’ when they kill anyone otherwise they wouldn’t do it, and declaring someone ‘mentally ill’. Which brings into question their ability to stand trial in the first place, or gives a defence by excuse of mental disorder. It’s a stupid thing to say about someone. |  | |  |
| Tummer, WTF! on 18:15 - Aug 5 with 2077 views | JACKMANANDBOY |
| Tummer, WTF! on 17:50 - Aug 5 by londonlisa2001 |
A statement that Obama did ‘literally nothing’ in 8 years is simply untrue. What is true is that many of the things he tried to do were blocked by Congress. It is also true that the beginning of his presidency saw little focus on gun control. Sandy Hook was a turning point.
What is also true is that it isn’t only republicans that blocked him but also democrats.
Trump's speech today which I listened to as I happened to be in the car when he spoke was frankly astonishing in parts, He described the ‘manifesto’ of the El Paso shooter as being full of racist hate speech, while huge parts of it are word for word the language of Trump himself.
But that aside, what was more astonishing, was that the speech firstly described the two killers as being ‘mentally ill’ - presumably without any medical evidence that is, in fact true (although doubtless the El Paso shooter’s lawyers will thank Trump for his ready made defence), secondly blamed the internet and video games (reasonable points to make, although as far as I’m aware the US doesn’t have different internet or video games when compared to, say, here) and completely failed to point the finger of blame at guns (apart from a reference to the mentally ill).
If you compare the US and the UK, we have the same access to violent games, the internet, mental health issues, kids who may be disturbed in some way. Yet we have no mass shootings. Because we don’t have guns. It really is straightforward. But I guess a president that received $30m of support from the NRA, really doesn’t want to bite the hand that feeds.
If, incidentally, there is any truth whatsoever in rumours that trump may agree some gun check measures with the Democrats in Congress in return for them giving him the money he wants for the wall, that may be the most sickening act of his to date. |
We have a problem with guns therefore we need more guns.
We have a problem with mental health therefore we need more guns.
We have a problem with the influence of the internet and video games therefore we need more guns.
We have 4% of the World population and 40% of the guns, therefore we need more guns.
We had 40,000 people killed with guns last year, the highest number for 20years, therefore we need more guns.
We have 393,347,000 guns, therefore we need more guns.
We have 1.2 guns for every person therefore we need more guns. |  |
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| Tummer, WTF! on 18:16 - Aug 5 with 2074 views | Luther27 |
| Tummer, WTF! on 18:08 - Aug 5 by londonlisa2001 |
There’s a difference between us thinking people can’t possibly be ‘sane’ when they kill anyone otherwise they wouldn’t do it, and declaring someone ‘mentally ill’. Which brings into question their ability to stand trial in the first place, or gives a defence by excuse of mental disorder. It’s a stupid thing to say about someone. |
The only thing I'm sure of is they'll never walk the streets again. | | | |
| Tummer, WTF! on 18:18 - Aug 5 with 2063 views | Darran |
There’ll probably be another shooting in the States within the next few weeks,there’ll probably be another thread on Planetswans and the same people will say the same things again. [Post edited 5 Aug 2019 18:32]
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| Tummer, WTF! on 18:19 - Aug 5 with 2068 views | cimlajack |
| Tummer, WTF! on 17:19 - Aug 5 by Ebo |
Not being funny like but this is just this year under the orange idiots watch:
A list of all mass shootings in the USA in 2019:
8/3/19 El Paso, Texas
8/2/19 Pomfret, Maryland
7/31/19 Elkhart, Indiana
7/30/19 Southaven, Mississippi
7/30/19 Haskell, Oklahoma
7/30/19 Rosenberg, Texas
7/30/19 Columbus, Ohio
7/28/19 Chippewa Falls, Wisconsin
7/28/19 Gilroy, California
7/28/19 Uniontown, Pennsylvania
7/28/19 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
7/28/19 Chicago, Illinois
7/28/19 Washington, D.C.
7/27/19 Wichita, Kansas
7/27/19 Brooklyn, New York
7/25/19 Albemarle, North Carolina
7/25/19 Los Angeles, California
7/23/19 Pembroke Park, Florida
7/21/19 Chicago, Illinois
7/21/19 Washington, D.C.
7/20/19 Jersey City, New Jersey
7/20/19 Clairton, Pennsylvania
7/20/19 Chicago, Illinois
7/18/19 Chicago, Illinois
7/17/19 Lubbock, Texas
7/16/19 San Antonio, Texas
7/15/19 New Orleans, Louisiana
7/15/19 Atlanta, Georgia
7/15/19 Baltimore, Maryland
7/13/19 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
7/13/19 Chicago, Illinois
7/11/19 Houston, Texas
7/8/19 Manson, North Carolina
7/8/19 Washington, D.C.
7/7/19 Flint, Michigan
7/7/19 Wichita, Kansas
7/7/19 Chicago, Illinois
7/7/19 Albuquerque, New Mexico
7/6/19 San Jose, California
7/6/19 St. Clair Shores, Michigan
7/6/19 Charlotte, North Carolina
7/5/19 Brooklyn, New York
7/5/19 Chicago, Illinois
7/5/19 Reno, Nevada
7/5/19 Gravette, Arkansas
7/5/19 Boston, Massachusetts
7/4/19 Chicago, Illinois
7/4/19 Los Angeles, California
7/4/19 Rockford, Illinois
7/4/19 Fresno, California
7/3/19 Katy, Texas
7/2/19 Washington Park, Illinois
7/2/19 Wellston, Missouri
7/1/19 Baltimore, Maryland
6/30/19 Oakland, California
6/30/19 Yucaipa, California
6/30/19 Dallas, Texas
6/30/19 Bay Shore, New York
6/29/19 Baton Rouge, Louisiana
6/29/19 Hartford, Connecticut
6/29/19 Chicago, Illinois
6/28/19 Atlanta, Georgia
6/28/19 Paterson, New Jersey
6/28/19 Hamden, Connecticut
6/27/19 Atlanta, Georgia
6/26/19 Akron, Ohio
6/23/19 San Jose, California
6/23/19 Abbeville, South Carolina
6/23/19 Columbus, Ohio
6/23/19 La Jolla, California
6/23/19 South Bend, Indiana
6/22/19 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
6/22/19 Hampton, Virginia
6/22/19 Baltimore, Maryland
6/21/19 Saginaw, Michigan
6/21/19 Richmond, California
6/21/19 Chicago, Illinois
6/20/19 Allentown, Pennsylvania
6/18/19 Newark, New Jersey
6/17/19 San Antonio, Texas
6/17/19 Memphis, Tennessee
6/16/19 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
6/16/19 Louisville, Kentucky
6/16/19 Des Moines, Iowa
6/15/19 Shreveport, Louisiana
6/15/19 West Des Moines, Iowa
6/12/19 Charlotte, North Carolina
6/11/19 Savannah, Georgia
6/11/19 Aurora, Colorado
6/9/19 Henning, Tennessee
6/9/19 Buffalo, New York
6/9/19 Cleveland, Ohio
6/8/19 White Swan, Washington
6/8/19 Chicago, Illinois
6/7/19 Austin, Texas
6/6/19 Chicago, Illinois
6/5/19 Santa Rosa, California
6/1/19 Portsmouth, Virginia
6/1/19 Chicago, Illinois
6/1/19 Chicago, Illinois
6/1/19 Atlanta, Georgia
6/1/19 Macon, Georgia
6/1/19 Allendale, South Carolina
5/31/19 Virginia Beach, Virginia
5/30/19 Robbins, Illinois
5/29/19 Cleveland, Texas
5/27/19 Trenton, New Jersey
5/27/19 Washington D.C.
5/26/19 Stockton, California
5/26/19 La Crosse, Virginia
5/26/19 Washington D.C.
5/26/19 Chicago, Illinois
5/25/19 Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
5/25/19 Baltimore, Maryland
5/25/19 Chesapeake, Virginia
5/25/19 Trenton, New Jersey
5/20/19 Alexandria, Louisiana
5/20/19 Columbus, Ohio
5/20/19 Tulsa, Oklahoma
5/19/19 Portland, Oregon
5/18/19 Cascilla, Mississippi
5/18/19 Cedar Rapids, Iowa
5/18/19 Atmore, Alabama
5/18/19 Long Beach, California
5/18/19 Winston-Salem, North Carolina
5/18/19 Muncie, Indiana
5/17/19 Sacramento, California
5/16/19 Cleveland, Ohio
5/15/19 St. Rose, Louisiana
5/13/19 St. Louis, Missouri
5/13/19 New Orleans, Louisiana
5/11/19 Paulsboro, New Jersey
5/11/19 Chestnuthill Township, Pennsylvania
5/10/19 St. Louis, Missouri
5/10/19 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
5/8/19 Indianapolis, Indiana
5/7/19 Highlands Ranch, Colorado
5/5/19 North Bergen, New Jersey
5/5/19 Oceano, California
5/4/19 St. Louis, Missouri
5/4/19 Indianapolis, Indiana
5/4/19 Wilmington, Delaware
5/3/19 Baltimore, Maryland
5/3/19 Baltimore, Maryland
5/3/19 Dallas, Texas
5/1/19 Boston, Massachusetts
4/30/19 Charlotte, North Carolina
4/28/19 West Chester Township, Ohio
4/28/19 Nashville, Tennessee
4/28/19 Birmingham, Alabama
4/28/19 Baltimore, Maryland
4/27/19 Jackson, Mississippi
4/27/19 Jackson, Michigan
4/27/19 Poway, California
4/26/19 Hugo, Oklahoma
4/21/19 Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
4/21/19 Los Angeles, California
4/20/19 Memphis, Tennessee
4/20/19 Corpus Christi, Texas
4/19/19 Wichita, Kansas
4/18/19 Louisville, Kentucky
4/16/19 Germantown, Maryland
4/14/19 Stockton, California
4/14/19 Vallejo, California
4/14/19 Miami, Florida
4/12/19 Carbondale, Illinois
4/11/19 Phoenix, Arizona
4/11/19 Los Angeles, California
4/11/19 Baltimore, Maryland
4/9/19 Kansas City, Missouri
4/7/19 Shreveport, Louisiana
4/7/19 Indianapolis, Indiana
4/7/19 Winston-Salem, North Carolina
4/7/19 Wilmington, Delaware
4/6/19 Chicago, Illinois
4/6/19 Tallahassee, Florida
4/4/19 Panama City, Florida
4/4/19 Stockbridge, Georgia
4/2/19 Hermanville, Mississippi
4/2/19 Covington, Kentucky
3/31/19 Chicago, Illinois
3/31/19 Atlanta, Georgia
3/31/19 North Charleston, South Carolina
3/28/19 Baltimore, Maryland
3/25/19 North Las Vegas, Nevada
3/24/19 San Francisco, California
3/24/19 Phoenix, Arizona
3/19/19 Phoenix, Arizona
3/17/19 Augusta, Georgia
3/17/19 Las Vegas, Nevada
3/17/19 Rochelle, Georgia
3/16/19 Camden, New Jersey
3/15/19 Mobile, Alabama
3/14/19 Missoula, Montana
3/13/19 Harvey, Illinois
3/11/19 Paterson, New Jersey
3/10/19 Denver, Colorado
3/10/19 Shreveport, Louisiana
3/3/19 Oakland, California
3/3/19 Chicago, Illinois
3/2/19 Pine Bluff, Arkansas
2/28/19 Oakland, California
2/22/19 Birmingham, Alabama
2/21/19 Elizabethtown, Kentucky
2/21/19 Baltimore, Maryland
2/21/19 Houston, Texas
2/20/19 Covington, Tennessee
2/18/19 Solon Township, Michigan
2/17/19 Evansville, Indiana
2/17/19 Henderson, Texas
2/17/19 New Orleans, Louisiana
2/16/19 Clinton, Mississippi
2/15/19 Aurora, Illinois
2/14/19 Jacksonville, Florida
2/11/19 Livingston, Texas
2/9/19 Petersburg, Virginia
2/6/19 Brooklyn, New York
2/6/19 Cleveland, Ohio
2/5/19 San Antonio, Texas
2/4/19 Washington, D.C.
2/4/19 Baton Rouge, Louisiana
2/3/19 Chicago, Illinois
2/1/19 San Diego, California
1/28/19 Houston, Texas
1/27/19 Birmingham, Alabama
1/26/19 Newark, New Jersey
1/26/19 Indianapolis, Indiana
1/26/19 Albany, Georgia
1/26/19 Ascension Parish and Livingston Parish, Louisiana
1/24/19 State College, Pennsylvania
1/24/19 Rockmart, Georgia
1/23/19 Sebring, Florida
1/20/19 Miami, Florida
1/19/19 Gaffney, South Carolina
1/19/19 Jacksonville, Florida
1/19/19 Lebanon, Pennsylvania
1/19/19 Chicago, Illinois
1/19/19 Houston, Texas
1/17/19 Owensboro, Kentucky
1/16/19 Jacksonville, Florida
1/16/19 Palmdale, California
1/15/19 Little Rock, Arkansas
1/13/19 Phoenix, Arizona
1/6/19 Roswell, New Mexico
1/4/19 Hurt, Virginia
1/4/19 Houston, Texas
1/4/19 Torrance, California
1/3/19 Texas City, Texas
1/2/19 Jonesboro, Arkansas
1/1/19 Columbia, South Carolina
1/1/19 Tallahassee, Florida |
Gobsmacked with that list, had no idea gun crime was that rife. | | | |
| Tummer, WTF! on 18:28 - Aug 5 with 2057 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Tummer, WTF! on 18:16 - Aug 5 by Luther27 |
The only thing I'm sure of is they'll never walk the streets again. |
One would hope not. Some do get released though once they’re ‘well’. | | | |
| Tummer, WTF! on 18:32 - Aug 5 with 2050 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Tummer, WTF! on 18:19 - Aug 5 by cimlajack |
Gobsmacked with that list, had no idea gun crime was that rife. |
That’s just mass shootings. Not ordinary murder using a gun. | | | |
| Tummer, WTF! on 18:41 - Aug 5 with 2029 views | Banosswan |
| Tummer, WTF! on 18:32 - Aug 5 by londonlisa2001 |
That’s just mass shootings. Not ordinary murder using a gun. |
Mass shooting being defined as one where at least 4 people are shot. |  |
| Ever since my son was... never conceived, because I've never had consensual sex without money involved... I've always kind of looked at you as... a thing, that I could live next to... in accordance with state laws. | | Poll: | How do you like your steak? |
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| Tummer, WTF! on 20:20 - Aug 5 with 1983 views | exiledclaseboy |
“The shooter in El Paso posted a manifesto online consumed by racist hate,” Trump said. “In one voice, our nation must condemn racism, bigotry and white supremacy.”
“These sinister ideologies must be defeated. Hate has no place in America.”
Did he really say that with a straight face and without his fingers being crossed? |  |
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| Tummer, WTF! on 00:48 - Aug 6 with 1922 views | dizietsma |
I heard on the podcast "Pod Save America" t'other day that the Republicans, and Trump in particular, quite often talk about drug and gun violence in the cities as being he fault of the people who live in them and the local govts in charge for allowing it to happen. However, when they talk about the violence and other problems with connected to meth addiction and the opioid crisis in rural, white America, they often portray them as the victims of unfair economics, and blame others e.g. the Chinese for selling Fentanyl.
In other words, Black criminals are criminals, White criminals are victims.
(I haven't checked for actual quotes but it has the ring of truth from memory).
The response to terror attacks follow a similar pattern. Muslim terrorists are followers of an evil ideology. Their culture, language, religion and race are all part of their problem. MS13 are animals etc.
White mass shooters are normally called "Mentally Ill". This is to portray them as individuals, separate from their race and religion and culture. It a "health" issue, or possible a second amendment one, but certainly not a religious one.
Trump's criticism of White Supremacy is unusual, and I am sure, quite disingenuous. It's all about the votes.... and to deflect from his signing of HJ Res 40, which overturned Obama era background checks. | | | |
| Tummer, WTF! on 02:24 - Aug 6 with 1888 views | snork44 |
| Tummer, WTF! on 20:20 - Aug 5 by exiledclaseboy |
“The shooter in El Paso posted a manifesto online consumed by racist hate,” Trump said. “In one voice, our nation must condemn racism, bigotry and white supremacy.”
“These sinister ideologies must be defeated. Hate has no place in America.”
Did he really say that with a straight face and without his fingers being crossed? |
The shooter in Ohio was a supporter of Elizabeth Warran who wanted extreme socialism in the States. So you do have lunatics on both sides of the political spectrum, mental health background checks are a must now. But also the banning of large capacity magazines is also essential, unfortunately the NRA led by that lunatic Wayne La Pierre are against both ideas. As bat shit crazy the Democrats are at the moment ,they have been consistent and intelligent in their ideas for gun control !
Unfortunately, any talk from the Democrats about sensible gun control will get the NRA and your extreme gun owners claiming all the left want to do is 'take away your guns!' No self respecting Presidential Candidate from whatever party would advocate that, as that would be Electorial suicide. As I have said before guns have been an integral part of US history and culture from 'The War of Independance, The Civil War , The Taming of the Wild West, two World Wars, Korea, Vietnam through to 9/11 and various wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. The 'Genie' is well out of the bottle and nothing now will be able to reverse that. |  |
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| Tummer, WTF! on 02:34 - Aug 6 with 1884 views | sioni |
| Tummer, WTF! on 05:59 - Aug 5 by Tummer_from_Texas |
Ya know, since you're so ashamed of my "attempts to manipulative real sad events;" when honestly, I feel like I've been one of the few posters NOT engaging in that kind of behavior in this thread...I've gone back to check out what I've contributed over the last 36 hours (beyond my name in the subject line, for whatever reason).
As a chronological summary, I:
1) Showed remorse that yet another horrible mass shooting has occurred in my country.
2) Stated how, in relation to my career, I'm worried about this stuff happening at my mall. Even though it's a place with (knock on wood) no serious crime at all beyond the occasional shoplifting at Victoria's Secret or Sunglass Hut, mass shootings like these have nothing to do with how safe an area is; it can happen literally anywhere in the USA. Which is a bad thing, in case I need to clarify further for you.
3) Stated my solid belief that my country needs MUCH better gun control laws; which, even though I know almost nothing about guns, seems obvious to anyone no matter their politics.
4) Stated my pessimism that we are a long way from fixing the problem, simply because the existing supply of guns in the country has always been way out of control, and the pro gun people are beyond reasoning with. Yet reiterating again that better gun control laws still need to happen in any case.
5) Mentioned that one good, significant government reform happened in 2017. Bump stocks were banned, which apparently are used to convert semi automatics into automatics. This gives me some hope that the government isn't completely inflexible.
6) Speculated that, IF anything positive were to happen, the next step may involve reforming the background check process. Baby steps, but we've got to start somewhere.
7) (In response to political vitriol directed at current/past presidents) politely pointed out that Congress, not the president, would need to spearhead any significant, sweeping gun control legislation, as they are the legislative branch of our federal government.
8) Lamented that a 2nd shooting happened in Ohio, without getting into the political motivations of the Ohio shooter, even though others have been sure to point out those of the El Paso shooter.
Gee whiz, you are so correct. So sorry that I'M clearly THE manipulative political opportunist in this thread. Please forgive me, and pretty please don't show my evil doings to any of those Americans you admire. |
To be relatively brief, I did not see any remorse in your posts but I did see concern for your home town where these occurrences are concerned which is a natural reaction. I also gave you an up-mark for your suggestion that more gun-control should “happen”. Fair enough I thought, sensible and non-partisan in present circumstances. I was surprised tbh.
Your next post however went to great pains to emphasize that such a policy would be just impossible to carry out except perhaps, possibly, maybe by taking small even teeny weeny steps to effect minor changes within your lifetime or beyond. Hardly a clarion call to action. Presumably then no reason to work hard to protect people; it’s just too difficult for it to “happen”.
In a later post, you praise president Trump for having banned the use of bump stocks and thus being the only President to have changed the gun laws in recent times. Later you defend Trump from criticism of having done so little by claiming that was the responsibility of Congress. You also claimed that Obama had done nothing. I would agree he did little but that was the result of Congress and the republicans in general and Boehner and McConnell in particular going to great lengths to inhibit his activity.
I see little but partisanship in these posts and rest assured I will not pass anything on to my American friends even if they were to ask me “pretty please”, which they wouldn’t. | | | |
| Tummer, WTF! on 02:56 - Aug 6 with 1876 views | Tummer_from_Texas |
| Tummer, WTF! on 02:34 - Aug 6 by sioni |
To be relatively brief, I did not see any remorse in your posts but I did see concern for your home town where these occurrences are concerned which is a natural reaction. I also gave you an up-mark for your suggestion that more gun-control should “happen”. Fair enough I thought, sensible and non-partisan in present circumstances. I was surprised tbh.
Your next post however went to great pains to emphasize that such a policy would be just impossible to carry out except perhaps, possibly, maybe by taking small even teeny weeny steps to effect minor changes within your lifetime or beyond. Hardly a clarion call to action. Presumably then no reason to work hard to protect people; it’s just too difficult for it to “happen”.
In a later post, you praise president Trump for having banned the use of bump stocks and thus being the only President to have changed the gun laws in recent times. Later you defend Trump from criticism of having done so little by claiming that was the responsibility of Congress. You also claimed that Obama had done nothing. I would agree he did little but that was the result of Congress and the republicans in general and Boehner and McConnell in particular going to great lengths to inhibit his activity.
I see little but partisanship in these posts and rest assured I will not pass anything on to my American friends even if they were to ask me “pretty please”, which they wouldn’t. |
See what you want to see, I guess.
It's pretty funny that you accuse me of getting political in this thread by being 100% political yourself.
Honestly, I haven't even bothered reading any replies other than the ones quoting me, since (thank God) it's football season again and the Swans have me pumping the usual sunshine out of my ass, even in spite of our owners. I'm only participating in this thread at all because I was called out right in the thread title.
But in case anyone has the typical, Utopian idea that we simply need to ban guns in America: one thing I should bring up (and this is just MY opinion) is that any radical measure of banning guns would have a similar (if not worse) effect that banning alcohol had exactly 100 years ago. That effect was: people didn't drink less after alcohol was banned; but a very successful, permanent system of organized crime was created and sustained directly due to prohibition, a horrible consequence we dealt with even way after prohibiton was repealed in the 1930's.
Much like the way criminals in 1920 were overjoyed that alcohol was banned back then, I have no doubt that drug dealers (who would promptly move into the gun business) and slimy gun merchants would love to see a national ban of guns now. Their margins would skyrocket.
The only realistic answer is a rational system of control. This isn't Europe, we have a gun-loving culture you just (good for you) can't understand. So a ban on guns is only going to make things worse. I'm not saying this as a supporter of gun rights, I HATE GUNS. I'm saying this as a realist who lives here, and who wants to see the sh!t that happened this weekend happen less. [Post edited 6 Aug 2019 3:56]
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| Tummer, WTF! on 12:59 - Aug 6 with 1779 views | Ebo |
This is how a real president tweets. Stark contrast from the casual racism and downright childishness of the clown currently running the circus
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| Tummer, WTF! on 13:11 - Aug 6 with 1767 views | Highjack |
| Tummer, WTF! on 12:59 - Aug 6 by Ebo |
This is how a real president tweets. Stark contrast from the casual racism and downright childishness of the clown currently running the circus
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It's probably how his team of highly paid spin doctors and speech writers tweet more like. |  |
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| Tummer, WTF! on 13:19 - Aug 6 with 1764 views | Lohengrin |
| Tummer, WTF! on 13:11 - Aug 6 by Highjack |
It's probably how his team of highly paid spin doctors and speech writers tweet more like. |
What goes for him goes for them all...
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| An idea isn't responsible for those who believe in it. |
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| Tummer, WTF! on 13:45 - Aug 6 with 1744 views | Ebo |
| Tummer, WTF! on 13:11 - Aug 6 by Highjack |
It's probably how his team of highly paid spin doctors and speech writers tweet more like. |
I doubt it.
Stark contrast though isn't it? A Trump Twitter thread is worse than NSR Planet Swans thread.
Regardless what you think of Obama, the policies he tried to push through were all blocked by the Rebublicans, including newer gun laws. Trump reversed the one Obama got through congress regarding mentally ill people not having access to guns. Now Trump is saying mentally ill people should not have access to guns.
This guy is running a country FFS!! | |
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| Tummer, WTF! on 15:29 - Aug 6 with 1712 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Tummer, WTF! on 02:24 - Aug 6 by snork44 |
The shooter in Ohio was a supporter of Elizabeth Warran who wanted extreme socialism in the States. So you do have lunatics on both sides of the political spectrum, mental health background checks are a must now. But also the banning of large capacity magazines is also essential, unfortunately the NRA led by that lunatic Wayne La Pierre are against both ideas. As bat shit crazy the Democrats are at the moment ,they have been consistent and intelligent in their ideas for gun control !
Unfortunately, any talk from the Democrats about sensible gun control will get the NRA and your extreme gun owners claiming all the left want to do is 'take away your guns!' No self respecting Presidential Candidate from whatever party would advocate that, as that would be Electorial suicide. As I have said before guns have been an integral part of US history and culture from 'The War of Independance, The Civil War , The Taming of the Wild West, two World Wars, Korea, Vietnam through to 9/11 and various wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. The 'Genie' is well out of the bottle and nothing now will be able to reverse that. |
“The shooter in Ohio was a supporter of Elizabeth Warran who wanted extreme socialism in the States”
Hang on a second.
The El Paso killer left behind a manifesto giving political motivations for his horrific acts. His language in that manifesto replicated tweets and speeches made by Trump.
The Dayton killing hasn’t been linked to a political motivation at this time. The fact that the killer murdered his own sister as part of the attack suggests it’s not that straightforward.
Additionally Elizabeth Warren has never used the type of inflammatory language that Trump has against the people targeted.
So, although I understand that Trump supporters are trying to equate the two situations, at this time there is no basis for that. It may come to light of course that the Dayton killer was also politically motivated but at present that simply isn’t the case.
But the main point of the argument, namely gun control is essential, is correct and obvious. The fact I heard US politicians and other spokespeople on the radio yesterday and today arguing that more guns are what’s needed is a suggestion that nothing meaningful will happen. Particularly with a president that is blaming everything other than guns at the moment. | | | |
| Tummer, WTF! on 17:56 - Aug 6 with 1663 views | sioni |
| Tummer, WTF! on 02:56 - Aug 6 by Tummer_from_Texas |
See what you want to see, I guess.
It's pretty funny that you accuse me of getting political in this thread by being 100% political yourself.
Honestly, I haven't even bothered reading any replies other than the ones quoting me, since (thank God) it's football season again and the Swans have me pumping the usual sunshine out of my ass, even in spite of our owners. I'm only participating in this thread at all because I was called out right in the thread title.
But in case anyone has the typical, Utopian idea that we simply need to ban guns in America: one thing I should bring up (and this is just MY opinion) is that any radical measure of banning guns would have a similar (if not worse) effect that banning alcohol had exactly 100 years ago. That effect was: people didn't drink less after alcohol was banned; but a very successful, permanent system of organized crime was created and sustained directly due to prohibition, a horrible consequence we dealt with even way after prohibiton was repealed in the 1930's.
Much like the way criminals in 1920 were overjoyed that alcohol was banned back then, I have no doubt that drug dealers (who would promptly move into the gun business) and slimy gun merchants would love to see a national ban of guns now. Their margins would skyrocket.
The only realistic answer is a rational system of control. This isn't Europe, we have a gun-loving culture you just (good for you) can't understand. So a ban on guns is only going to make things worse. I'm not saying this as a supporter of gun rights, I HATE GUNS. I'm saying this as a realist who lives here, and who wants to see the sh!t that happened this weekend happen less. [Post edited 6 Aug 2019 3:56]
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Well I must say the tone of this edited version has been ratcheted up quite significantly but that’s your right.
I agree that the effect of scarcity on goods and services is quite interesting no more so than the production of hemp in early Jamestown where it was illegal for the colonialists not to grow hemp whereas in the 20th century producers of certain products disliked hemp’s competitions, managed to make it illegal and thus made marijuana scarce with the damaging results we are all aware of.
This is similar to the problems you cited with Prohibition.
However, to use those situations to argue against gun control is disingenuous at best. I have heard no one suggest that guns should be banned. The aim is Gun Control, as you well know, but I won’t berate that obvious but important distinction.
Similarly, my so-called Europeanism (a dodgy description in present UK politics) does not make me incapable of understanding American history and culture for many reasons I won’t bore you with.
Anyway, I have been much more argumentative here than I anticipated being after your original post, but so be it, and have a good life. | | | |
| Tummer, WTF! on 19:39 - Aug 6 with 1644 views | nyc_swans |
who cares what politician/political party some psychopath was purported to support. it's a sick way for partisan jocks to score points. really makes me sick to see that. |  | | |
| Tummer, WTF! on 20:01 - Aug 6 with 1625 views | LeonWasGod |
| Tummer, WTF! on 19:20 - Aug 4 by londonlisa2001 |
Well of course it is, but have you ever been inside a Walmart? I found it terrifying. There are the aisles for crisps, cereal, drinks and then huge displays of guns.
In my twenties and thirties in particular, I did loads of road trips around the States. Just booking flights and a car and traveling around, staying in small motels, often in small towns, eating in local diners, rough camping, all sorts. I was talking about it this morning and saying I would honestly be afraid to do that now. |
It was the air rifle starter sets for 6/7 year olds that got me. Guns are completely normalised, revered almost.
In the end we bought our daughter a school rucsac instead. Very boring but less likely to inflict deadly wounds on animals and people. |  | | |
| Tummer, WTF! on 02:45 - Aug 8 with 1527 views | snork44 |
| Tummer, WTF! on 15:29 - Aug 6 by londonlisa2001 |
“The shooter in Ohio was a supporter of Elizabeth Warran who wanted extreme socialism in the States”
Hang on a second.
The El Paso killer left behind a manifesto giving political motivations for his horrific acts. His language in that manifesto replicated tweets and speeches made by Trump.
The Dayton killing hasn’t been linked to a political motivation at this time. The fact that the killer murdered his own sister as part of the attack suggests it’s not that straightforward.
Additionally Elizabeth Warren has never used the type of inflammatory language that Trump has against the people targeted.
So, although I understand that Trump supporters are trying to equate the two situations, at this time there is no basis for that. It may come to light of course that the Dayton killer was also politically motivated but at present that simply isn’t the case.
But the main point of the argument, namely gun control is essential, is correct and obvious. The fact I heard US politicians and other spokespeople on the radio yesterday and today arguing that more guns are what’s needed is a suggestion that nothing meaningful will happen. Particularly with a president that is blaming everything other than guns at the moment. |
What I am saying is that there is hate on both sides,what happened in Texas was clearly influenced by the rhetoric coming from Trump, but there are extremists on both sides and unfortunately the availability of guns makes using them the first choice to express some nutters hate. I have been living here for six years ! I woke up this morning to the news that there was a mass shooting ninety miles away in Metro Atlanta, three people where shot in house (that is considered a mass shooting) that won't ever make the national news, but gun violence especially in the big cities is the norm.
On average there are 3 to 4 gun murders in Atlanta a day, whether that is gang related , domestic violence , rage albeit road rage or pure anger that still means 3 to 4 human beings end up on a mortuary slab. As for gun control I gave up long ago as the Republicans have long sucked up to the NRA and Wayne La Pierre's bunch of loony tunes, when Sandy Hook happened and the Parklands school shooting took place last year I hoped there was hope , but US Polititions on both sides will never have the will to stand up to the gun lobby as that would be Electorial suicide. | |
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