| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 00:31 - Apr 2 with 5061 views | superhoopdownunder |
Thanks Clive
During the last 2 seasons many players have known they are out of contract at the end of the season and our performances have been much worse during the second half of the season.
Players coming out of contract are less likely to care, fully commit themselves and take longer to return from injury.
Isn't it the responsibility of the DoF to ensure we are planning ahead with players and don't end up in these situations?
When is Ferdinand going to be held accountable for our decline from 17th in the EPL only four and a half years ago to the joke club we have become?
Our recruiting has been rubbish under Les' watch.
Too many donkeys with poor character like Joel Lynch on 15k per week.
Toni on over 20k per week.
Wages still over 30m
All the wasted parachute payments.
Ferdinand should be sacked too.
[Post edited 2 Apr 2019 0:47]
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| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 04:45 - Apr 2 with 4912 views | stainrods_elbow |
Great piece, Clive, and I would endorse pretty much all of it.
It's very painful to say, but after the events of this year, and the last 24 hours, I'm inclined to agree Les should be falling on his sword too at a minimum.
As the man who, in his own words 'signs off' all player contracts and has a big hand in hiring and firing managers, Hoos should be taking a long hard look in the mirror as well. (But probably won't.)
Where in the name of Christ do we go from here? |  |
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| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 05:56 - Apr 2 with 4856 views | timcocking |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 04:45 - Apr 2 by stainrods_elbow |
Great piece, Clive, and I would endorse pretty much all of it.
It's very painful to say, but after the events of this year, and the last 24 hours, I'm inclined to agree Les should be falling on his sword too at a minimum.
As the man who, in his own words 'signs off' all player contracts and has a big hand in hiring and firing managers, Hoos should be taking a long hard look in the mirror as well. (But probably won't.)
Where in the name of Christ do we go from here? |
?
I never really get it. You win some, you lose some. Les is surely trying his best. How is he responsible for what happens in the crucial moments of football matches?
Just hypothetically imagine a scenario whereby we had the best director of football on the planet and he did everything perfectly all of the time and the best manager on the planet, we'd probably still be in the lower half of the championship. Are you suggesting they'd need to resign also? What the hell do people expect Les to do?
Perhaps Lee Hoos and Les are to blame for the Brexit fiasco as well? |  | | |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 07:37 - Apr 2 with 4731 views | DejR_vu |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 05:56 - Apr 2 by timcocking |
?
I never really get it. You win some, you lose some. Les is surely trying his best. How is he responsible for what happens in the crucial moments of football matches?
Just hypothetically imagine a scenario whereby we had the best director of football on the planet and he did everything perfectly all of the time and the best manager on the planet, we'd probably still be in the lower half of the championship. Are you suggesting they'd need to resign also? What the hell do people expect Les to do?
Perhaps Lee Hoos and Les are to blame for the Brexit fiasco as well? |
Well, despite supposedly cutting our cloth we’ve still got a ridiculously high wage bill, with very average players, on wages so high other clubs of a similar size in the Championship can’t get close to. But I suppose, like everything else, that’s got nothing to do with LF either. | |
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| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 08:11 - Apr 2 with 4644 views | stainrods_elbow |
What the hell are you talking about?
At what point, in your book, does a club's consistent/abject failure (one win, to remind you, since Boxing Day, on top of a FFP bill of anything between £20-£42m depending on what you read) start to swing a light bulb at least over the people running it?
Seriously, get a grip!
This morning, I'd be perfectly happy for Hoos, Les and Tony to walk, plus Eustace and any (mal)lingering McClaren underlings. I've lost faith in the lot of them, and that's before I got started on laying into this half-arsed squad of players who don't deserve us. | |
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| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 09:14 - Apr 2 with 4454 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Very good piece, Clive.
Good to have your inside info and to have it presented in a reasoned manner.
The owners picked McClaren, backed his variation from our advertised long-term strategy and must surely now realise that these decisions are best left to Hoos and Ferdinand.
Personally, I can't help thinking that Hoos is best-placed to conduct the search. He did a good job of finding managers prior to coming here. |  |
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| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 09:20 - Apr 2 with 4436 views | westberksr |
Great piece Clive, albeit thoroughly depressing
so basically, 'same old, same old' as we lurch from one disaster to another under the current regime.
Huddersfield were relegated on Saturday which would have surprised nobody; they did however turn a profit of tens of millions and have all the facilities to rebuild for another crack at the Championship (or whatever it's called now) next year.
Preston have a wage bill a fraction of ours and are doing well enough......
it can be done; we just refuse to do it! |  | | |
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| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 13:43 - Apr 2 with 3945 views | quickpassrotter |
Oh Clive ...I was nodding in agreement to literally every sentence you had written here. Excellent piece, as usual. Great insights. What a mess - time and time and time again.
Let's get this season over with -please, and stay up. I can then go and watch some cricket and hopefully sit in some sunshine and warmth. This is all testing my endurance.
However, come on you R's - that is the encompassing club and supporters - not the players, management or directors. |  | | |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 14:50 - Apr 2 with 3815 views | SedgemoorHoop |
This is my 1st post. Favourite cheese: Cheddar.
A report in The Times today by Matt Hughes suggests that the pay-off to McClaren may be limited to the balance of his salary for this season, because of a break clause that the journalist understands to be in McClaren's contract. If this is true, then the financial damage may not be as bad we thought. |  | | |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 15:20 - Apr 2 with 3768 views | Antti_Heinola |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 00:31 - Apr 2 by superhoopdownunder |
Thanks Clive
During the last 2 seasons many players have known they are out of contract at the end of the season and our performances have been much worse during the second half of the season.
Players coming out of contract are less likely to care, fully commit themselves and take longer to return from injury.
Isn't it the responsibility of the DoF to ensure we are planning ahead with players and don't end up in these situations?
When is Ferdinand going to be held accountable for our decline from 17th in the EPL only four and a half years ago to the joke club we have become?
Our recruiting has been rubbish under Les' watch.
Too many donkeys with poor character like Joel Lynch on 15k per week.
Toni on over 20k per week.
Wages still over 30m
All the wasted parachute payments.
Ferdinand should be sacked too.
[Post edited 2 Apr 2019 0:47]
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The thing is, SHD, that from when he took over, it's been imperative to run contracts down to cut the overall wage bill. People say we're over-paying now, which we likely are, but not by any measurement even half as badly as we were when Les came in. And if you're paying big bucks, players won't leave and people won't buy. He's also looking for flexibility. This summer players are out of contract, but we do have options on them. That's a good place to be, in theory, because they should be playing for a contract. In an ideal world, as with Clint, who signed a succession of one year deals, that would be perfect. Obviously doesn't suit all personalities though.
Be fascinated to know how/why you think TL will be on £20k+ per week, when that would break the structure in place (as a comparison, Chery was reportedly on £8k, so seems unlikely we would pay triple that for a player plucked from a similar league - and a defender at that). TL may have got a signing on fee which may be factored into his earnings of course, but I'd be very surprised if it was that high. Maybe you've seen some documents I haven't.
Parachute payments have been wasted - but not on signings. They've mainly been servicing wages agreed pre-Ferdinand - I think that's pretty obvious. However, there have been poor signings: Washington perhaps being the worst in terms of outlay. Lynch should have been a solid championship defender (is, on his day), but he's overall been a disappointment.
Recruitment is very hard, especially when in our position of severe cuts and particularly when Les came in and saw we literally had no scouting system in place worthy to speak of. Building that takes time.
Overall, I don't think it's been bad. BOS, Smyth, Freeman, Smith, Polter, Chery, Hall, Smithies, Bidwell, Luongo, Scowen, Eze, Pav all have contributed to some extent and none are what I would class as poor signings. Even Sylla got some vital goals at times. And recruitment at youth level has come on light years.
Smithies, Freeman and Luongo apart, I agree there have been few unqualified successes, however. But the reality is with or without Les there, in the situation we were in, it's unlikely in my opinion we'd be any better off than we are now. It's been a huge culture change at the club, and asking, every season, to halve the wage budget and expect somehow to still be 17th in the Prem, or even challenging at the top of this league was always unlikely. Mistakes have been made, I'm sure Les has made loads, but as horrible as this sounds, I still think despite the current mess, people don't quite realise how much worse it could be. Sure it could be a lot better too - but Les has had a big effect on youth structure, scouting (which because of FFP necessitates pretty much trying to find players who are going to be out of contract, as happened with Freeman) and cutting costs. What he and we could all do with is one manager who fits and stays for three seasons and helps us start to rebuild. |  |
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| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column (Warburton) on 17:17 - Apr 2 with 3575 views | Scarecrow |
Don't normally post, but sharing as below from a reliable Brentford S/Ticket holder.
"I was surprised with Steve McClaren departure so late in the season, not sure what others can bring, although agree with you regarding his stats, which were poor - only 1 game won in 15.
I personally liked Warburton....very good with young players, good scouting skills, bringing great potential for the future (Andre Gray, Scott Hogan, just to mention few)....he was a close friend of our owner Matthew Benham, as both worked in the City. He doesn't have football background, but not all good footballers make great managers. The reason he left Brentford, as he did not agree with our owner changing philosophy and how he wanted to run the club.
In my mind, he is a good guy and can be a great fit for QPR. He had very good rapport with fans....always gave acknowledgement after every game (home & away). We were very sad when he left." |  | | |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 18:52 - Apr 2 with 3428 views | PinnerPaul |
One point to pick up on and a (fanciful) thought.
Clive quite rightly says most/all managers will always want a 'short term' fix - ie bring players in they know/trust because they know that a run of defeats can bring the sack.
How about the clubs do something about that - ie give the manager a job for the season and stick to that - whatever happens results-wise.
It might, just might get less short term decisions from managers, create less pressure and certainly save a shed load of money on paying off contracts.
Media don't help - I read this the other day 'Darren Moore was sacked as manager of WBA after a RUN of 2 defeats in 3 games' How the hell is TWO defeats a ******* RUN! | | | |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 19:41 - Apr 2 with 3346 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 14:50 - Apr 2 by SedgemoorHoop |
This is my 1st post. Favourite cheese: Cheddar.
A report in The Times today by Matt Hughes suggests that the pay-off to McClaren may be limited to the balance of his salary for this season, because of a break clause that the journalist understands to be in McClaren's contract. If this is true, then the financial damage may not be as bad we thought. |
Welcome, Sedgemoor, and thanks for the info. | |
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| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 22:05 - Apr 2 with 3160 views | distortR |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 18:52 - Apr 2 by PinnerPaul |
One point to pick up on and a (fanciful) thought.
Clive quite rightly says most/all managers will always want a 'short term' fix - ie bring players in they know/trust because they know that a run of defeats can bring the sack.
How about the clubs do something about that - ie give the manager a job for the season and stick to that - whatever happens results-wise.
It might, just might get less short term decisions from managers, create less pressure and certainly save a shed load of money on paying off contracts.
Media don't help - I read this the other day 'Darren Moore was sacked as manager of WBA after a RUN of 2 defeats in 3 games' How the hell is TWO defeats a ******* RUN! |
to be fair, two fa cup wins for us constitutes a run | | | |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 23:37 - Apr 2 with 3046 views | DavieQPR |
T L was signed when we were desperate for a CB after being turned down by Sainsbury so he could be on £20k. |  | | |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 11:41 - Apr 3 with 2772 views | Antti_Heinola |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 23:37 - Apr 2 by DavieQPR |
T L was signed when we were desperate for a CB after being turned down by Sainsbury so he could be on £20k. |
Still think it's unlikely. In fact, the story at the time was that Norwich came in for him and we assumed we'd lost him as we couldn't compete with them - so we were prepared to lose out on the deal. Then TL called and said he was coming to QPR.
A decision I suspect he may now regret. | |
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| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 12:14 - Apr 3 with 2723 views | Mytch_QPR |
I've just had a thought: if we get rid of all of Steve's backroom staff is the headline unemployment figure going to be affected? |  |
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| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 12:32 - Apr 3 with 2702 views | simmo |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 11:41 - Apr 3 by Antti_Heinola |
Still think it's unlikely. In fact, the story at the time was that Norwich came in for him and we assumed we'd lost him as we couldn't compete with them - so we were prepared to lose out on the deal. Then TL called and said he was coming to QPR.
A decision I suspect he may now regret. |
I think Gallen may have suggested 20k+ for Leistner via his Twitter... |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 12:44 - Apr 3 with 2680 views | Benny_the_Ball |
As much as I dislike the way that Tony operates, I find the theory that the owners are running a dictatorship with no input from either Ferdinand or Hoos both fanciful and convenient. Some people would rather die than give individuals they dislike credit for success or criticise individuals they like for failure. For example, some fans bought into the conspiracy theory that QPR's last promotion to the Premier League was down to McClaren (oh the irony) and Clint Hill, and had nothing whatsoever to do with Harry simply because of a deep seated dislike for the latter.
The more reasonable and balanced conclusion is that the board as a whole share credit for success and deserve criticism for failure. If Ollie was sacked despite meeting expectations then the board as a whole should accept criticism for this decision. If the board gave McClaren the same remit to develop youngsters on a shoestring only to sanction experienced signings after 4 defeats then again they have questions to answer.
Whilst I understand the fan's desire for managerial longitude the painful reality is that QPR is currently a basket case of a club and football is a very malleable, unforgiving business. Until the board unpicks the financial mess and creates some solid foundations (Warren Farm would be a good start), they have no hope of retaining managers and we as fans will continue to ride the rollercoaster ride that is Queens Park Rangers football club. |  | | |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 13:31 - Apr 3 with 2608 views | stevec |
Your column makes a lot of sense but have to ask this..
Whatever his remit, if he hadn’t broken it after those first four games we’d be going down with Ipswich for certain.
Secondly, are you sure it was McClaren who was responsible for the youngsters being loaned out since January?
The job title suggests Les should have his fingerprints all over this or if he hasn’t then perhaps you can explain to me what he’s doing here if he wasn’t in control of this.
The playing squad was blatantly not good enough coming into this season and loaning out the youngsters was not a great idea given we’d then be relying on a small squad for 46 games. Laying that all at McClarens door seems puzzling. |  | | |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 13:37 - Apr 3 with 2588 views | Northernr |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 13:31 - Apr 3 by stevec |
Your column makes a lot of sense but have to ask this..
Whatever his remit, if he hadn’t broken it after those first four games we’d be going down with Ipswich for certain.
Secondly, are you sure it was McClaren who was responsible for the youngsters being loaned out since January?
The job title suggests Les should have his fingerprints all over this or if he hasn’t then perhaps you can explain to me what he’s doing here if he wasn’t in control of this.
The playing squad was blatantly not good enough coming into this season and loaning out the youngsters was not a great idea given we’d then be relying on a small squad for 46 games. Laying that all at McClarens door seems puzzling. |
Ok, taking them each in turn.
1 - Maybe, the way we were playing the team he was picking certainly. But you didn't need four signings, you certainly didn't need both the strikers. Cameron and Wells would have done, and even they would have been much more than he was told at appointment he'd get. And that team was competitive at the end of last season, when Holloway had stopped picking the players that were leaving and we were still winning (at home at least).
2 - No it wasn't it was DOF, Ramsey etc, but the reason they were loaned out is because there was no point them being here with the manager refusing to pick any of them. As we've seen with Manning coming back and playing twice, if he's never ever going to pick them they may as well go and play somewhere else.
3 - Presume you mean the loaning out of players in which case see answer two. Where Les hasn't been in control is the hiring and firing of the last two managers, so you have two blokes setting the ethos and running the club day to day, and then every now and again they're presented with a manager that perhaps doesn't fit into that. Let them appoint the boss, if their manager fails then they fall with him, but atm they're taking grief for something they haven't done.
4 - See two and three.
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| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 13:47 - Apr 3 with 2563 views | Antti_Heinola |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 12:32 - Apr 3 by simmo |
I think Gallen may have suggested 20k+ for Leistner via his Twitter... |
The same Gallen retweeting people suggesting Les appointing Ramsey as manager was a racist decision? The words 'axe' and 'grind' spring to mind. | |
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| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 14:10 - Apr 3 with 2508 views | daveB |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 23:37 - Apr 2 by DavieQPR |
T L was signed when we were desperate for a CB after being turned down by Sainsbury so he could be on £20k. |
The Trent Sainsbury move fell apart after we signed the BFG so we signed Cameron instead |  | | |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 14:41 - Apr 3 with 2455 views | 18StoneOfHoop |
| McClaren suffers long term pain after short term gain — Column on 13:47 - Apr 3 by Antti_Heinola |
The same Gallen retweeting people suggesting Les appointing Ramsey as manager was a racist decision? The words 'axe' and 'grind' spring to mind. |
I love Kev and he's a clever chap
as you can hear on Podcasts
compared to say Rodney
but it's a bit
low to play the race card
and WHY THE FOOK HASN'T HE DONE his FULL FA BADGES?
Instead of this weak unbecoming whingeing |  |
| 'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please. |
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