| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid 12:57 - Jul 16 with 101783 views | 34dfgdf54 |
Bid rejected from las palmas apparently.
Siggy replacement and a very good one at that allegedly. |  | | |  |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:30 - Jul 16 with 1920 views | monmouth |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:22 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
What is the common theme with all of those players?
Age of players at time of sale:-
Joe Allen - 22 years old
Scott Sinclair - 23 years old
Wilfried Bony - 26 years old
Andre Ayew - 26 years old
Gylfi Sigurdsson - 27 years old
There may well be a Gylfi sized hole, but it doesnt mean we should spend £26.5m on a single player that has little resale value. It is not like he has ripped up his current league and has zero caps.
For this kind of money you would expect the above to be the case. |
So Everton must be REALLY stupid buying 27 year old Sigurdsson for 40+ million then, seeing as they'll never get their money back when he's 30? Or maybe they are building a team to compete for three years to get CL, just like we are building a team to get three years more prem income and merit payments, and maybe even a little cup bonus. It can't just be about resale, otherwise you'd risk killing the golden goose. |  |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:32 - Jul 16 with 1909 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
We are facking loaded mun
Get on with it |  |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:33 - Jul 16 with 1903 views | Valerie |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:22 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
What is the common theme with all of those players?
Age of players at time of sale:-
Joe Allen - 22 years old
Scott Sinclair - 23 years old
Wilfried Bony - 26 years old
Andre Ayew - 26 years old
Gylfi Sigurdsson - 27 years old
There may well be a Gylfi sized hole, but it doesnt mean we should spend £26.5m on a single player that has little resale value. It is not like he has ripped up his current league and has zero caps.
For this kind of money you would expect the above to be the case. |
Yet we expect and will get £40m to £50m for siggy who is the same age and although been good for us hadn't exactly ripped the league apart and would not get in the current Spain team.
It's about the present and staying in the premiership not what we can sell him for 3 years down the line. |  | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:34 - Jul 16 with 1902 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:29 - Jul 16 by jack247 |
Christ, I'm agreeing with you again.
Unless I'm missing something, it seems obvious to me that if you are replacing a key player, particularly if you sell him for massive money, that the only real consideration should be getting the best replacement for the coming season. Resale value should be a bonus in this kind of situation.
Im also not convinced you have to make a profit in the transfer market with the money that comes just from being in the PL |
You do realise we make nothing from being in the PL dont you? We break even.
Hence why any transactions we make must ensure that we get resale value, especially on a signing that costs £26.5m ffs.
I am seriously stunned reading this thread. |  |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:34 - Jul 16 with 1902 views | icecoldjack |
In fairness saying he ain't got no international caps is relevent apart from if the player is trying to get into the Spanish national team in midfield!
Most other teams he may well have had a crack. The flip side here is that he didn;t cut at Valencia and went on loan after a season to Rayo vallecano, nothing made permenant there so ended up at Standard liege, played very few games and didn't cut it there either and was loaned back to Las palmas .
I'm not too sure on this one but there's plenty out there that know La liga a lot better, including our manager !! |  | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:34 - Jul 16 with 1893 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:30 - Jul 16 by monmouth |
So Everton must be REALLY stupid buying 27 year old Sigurdsson for 40+ million then, seeing as they'll never get their money back when he's 30? Or maybe they are building a team to compete for three years to get CL, just like we are building a team to get three years more prem income and merit payments, and maybe even a little cup bonus. It can't just be about resale, otherwise you'd risk killing the golden goose. |
No not stupid, very very rich.
That isnt the clubs money they are spending, you do know that right? | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:35 - Jul 16 with 1890 views | jack247 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:28 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
In terms of people thinking its a good idea having no brain? Then maybe Ill agree.
I cant believe I am reading some if this stuff. £27m on someone with little resale value? What planet have some of you landed on?? 
Thankfully it seems the club wont go to €30m so there is someone with a modicum of sense there at least. |
We're in the big league now. It's not all about what these players will be worth in 3 years time.
Even adopting your view, we are talking about selling a 27 year old for £40m+ and replacing him with a 27 year old for £25m | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:35 - Jul 16 with 1885 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:33 - Jul 16 by Valerie |
Yet we expect and will get £40m to £50m for siggy who is the same age and although been good for us hadn't exactly ripped the league apart and would not get in the current Spain team.
It's about the present and staying in the premiership not what we can sell him for 3 years down the line. |
And that is why you wont be seeing a club the size of ours without a rich benefactor bidding for him. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:37 - Jul 16 with 1870 views | Valerie |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:34 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
You do realise we make nothing from being in the PL dont you? We break even.
Hence why any transactions we make must ensure that we get resale value, especially on a signing that costs £26.5m ffs.
I am seriously stunned reading this thread. |
Breaking level is good enough. | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:39 - Jul 16 with 1860 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:26 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
Not argument over at all.
If we stay in the Premier League then we simply break even. We will not get a £27m profit from survival. It may look pretty to write it, it may feel nice to say it - but it is simply not true.
In order to progress we need to be signing young, exeptional talent with resale value so we can continue the cycle when they move on, this ensures lingevity in the transfer market to improve our side, not squandering all the £45m we get from Gylfi on two replacements (viera and then his replecement in a few years time) who then leave us with nothing.
Its as straight forward as that. |
Has it ever occurred to you that other clubs are after "exceptional talent" aswell? Renato Sanchez for example, Bayern Munich...
If Clement wants Viera, go and get him. We are covered financially with our outgoings. Clement has earned our trust. | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:40 - Jul 16 with 1849 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:37 - Jul 16 by Valerie |
Breaking level is good enough. |
No its not, it means when you need to replace a player there is nothing in the pot. We strengthen our side pretty much solely on what we make from transfer sales. So that is something that needs to comtinue, not stop.
We have one of the highest income to wage %'s in the PL. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:41 - Jul 16 with 1836 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:39 - Jul 16 by 34dfgdf54 |
Has it ever occurred to you that other clubs are after "exceptional talent" aswell? Renato Sanchez for example, Bayern Munich...
If Clement wants Viera, go and get him. We are covered financially with our outgoings. Clement has earned our trust. |
Yes it has, there is a reason for that - they are smart.
If we have £30m to invest in a midfielder, I can assure you that we can get one of these highly saught after younger talents with bags of resale value. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:43 - Jul 16 with 1820 views | Borojack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:22 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
What is the common theme with all of those players?
Age of players at time of sale:-
Joe Allen - 22 years old
Scott Sinclair - 23 years old
Wilfried Bony - 26 years old
Andre Ayew - 26 years old
Gylfi Sigurdsson - 27 years old
There may well be a Gylfi sized hole, but it doesnt mean we should spend £26.5m on a single player that has little resale value. It is not like he has ripped up his current league and has zero caps.
For this kind of money you would expect the above to be the case. |
Why didn't you include Baston Tabanou and Palochi in that list.
All younger players that cost about 25 million in total and made about 20 appearances between them. |  |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:43 - Jul 16 with 1820 views | Valerie |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:40 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
No its not, it means when you need to replace a player there is nothing in the pot. We strengthen our side pretty much solely on what we make from transfer sales. So that is something that needs to comtinue, not stop.
We have one of the highest income to wage %'s in the PL. |
He is to be siggys replacement who we are going to get north of £40 million for so there is plenty "in the pot" | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:44 - Jul 16 with 1806 views | jack247 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:34 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
You do realise we make nothing from being in the PL dont you? We break even.
Hence why any transactions we make must ensure that we get resale value, especially on a signing that costs £26.5m ffs.
I am seriously stunned reading this thread. |
TV money went up dramatically last season. We were one of the only clubs without a net transfer deficit last summer, we then spent £20m in January. The Americans haven't put money into transfers.
If we don't replace Gylfi with quality we are looking at parachute payments this time next year. | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:47 - Jul 16 with 1794 views | EasternJack |
All this debate on breaking even, profit, resale value etc
I'm pretty sure I follow the Swans to watch football - the classier, the better. Really don't give a monkeys about the finances as long as we keep it sensible.
If 25M means we're competitive on the field this year then it's a "no brainer". The alternative is by definition unacceptable.
Argue that one. |  |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:49 - Jul 16 with 1777 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:43 - Jul 16 by Borojack |
Why didn't you include Baston Tabanou and Palochi in that list.
All younger players that cost about 25 million in total and made about 20 appearances between them. |
Because they were not in the list I was presented with.
Im not sure what point you are making though. None of those are even close to the sort of calibre of player I have said we should be buying with the apparent fee we seem happy to be spending.
If we are going to obliterate our transfer record then £30m attracts a top quality player, with resale value. I don't think Tabanou, Baston or Paloschi can be described as that?
Everton signed Davy Klaasen for cheaper. Hes 24 years old, was brilliant for Ajax and has 14 caps and 4 goals for Holland. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:54 - Jul 16 with 1747 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:47 - Jul 16 by EasternJack |
All this debate on breaking even, profit, resale value etc
I'm pretty sure I follow the Swans to watch football - the classier, the better. Really don't give a monkeys about the finances as long as we keep it sensible.
If 25M means we're competitive on the field this year then it's a "no brainer". The alternative is by definition unacceptable.
Argue that one. |
Profit, resale and breaking even is key for not only for you being able to watch us, but many years and generations after you. Our thinking is far too short term.
X2 of these signings and we have a couple of seasons out of them and then thats it. Gone.
I am not saying £25m should not be spent, but £25m if being spent on one player, simply HAS to fit the mould where we can get a lot of that transfer fee back to reinvest back into the side when he moves on. Otherwise these seasons you love watching wont be very many in number, I assure you.
We have adopted a pretty good transfer model thus far and it has allowed us room for error with the odd signing. Ditching that coz we have had a big sale is completely wreckless and beyind stupid lacking any responsible forward long term thinking.
Its screams panic rather than realising an opportunity to grow the club for decades. [Post edited 16 Jul 2017 22:55]
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:57 - Jul 16 with 1732 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:44 - Jul 16 by jack247 |
TV money went up dramatically last season. We were one of the only clubs without a net transfer deficit last summer, we then spent £20m in January. The Americans haven't put money into transfers.
If we don't replace Gylfi with quality we are looking at parachute payments this time next year. |
So did costs.
Who is saying don't replace him with quality though?
Thats certainly not my view. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:58 - Jul 16 with 1722 views | max936 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:47 - Jul 16 by EasternJack |
All this debate on breaking even, profit, resale value etc
I'm pretty sure I follow the Swans to watch football - the classier, the better. Really don't give a monkeys about the finances as long as we keep it sensible.
If 25M means we're competitive on the field this year then it's a "no brainer". The alternative is by definition unacceptable.
Argue that one. |
Can we be sure that this player is worth it though, I know nothing about him myself apart from what I've read on this thread, it seems to me after reading the thread that he's been around a few clubs without really achieving much, yet we are possibly gonna spend 27 million on him. |  |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:58 - Jul 16 with 1722 views | Borojack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:49 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
Because they were not in the list I was presented with.
Im not sure what point you are making though. None of those are even close to the sort of calibre of player I have said we should be buying with the apparent fee we seem happy to be spending.
If we are going to obliterate our transfer record then £30m attracts a top quality player, with resale value. I don't think Tabanou, Baston or Paloschi can be described as that?
Everton signed Davy Klaasen for cheaper. Hes 24 years old, was brilliant for Ajax and has 14 caps and 4 goals for Holland. |
The point I am trying to make is our record signing is a young and hungry player who did nothing to justify the fee.
All signings are a gamble but we should be signing on ability.
Age for me is secondary.
I know nothing about the player mentioned in this thread but if Clement and the scouting team think he warrants the fee that's good enough for me.
But I don't think for a minute we would pay 30 million euro for this player. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:01 - Jul 16 with 1709 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:58 - Jul 16 by Borojack |
The point I am trying to make is our record signing is a young and hungry player who did nothing to justify the fee.
All signings are a gamble but we should be signing on ability.
Age for me is secondary.
I know nothing about the player mentioned in this thread but if Clement and the scouting team think he warrants the fee that's good enough for me.
But I don't think for a minute we would pay 30 million euro for this player. |
Being young isn't the trigger to splash a load of money on someone though is it. Who had heard of Baston prior to his arrival? Who had been linked with Baston before his arrival? How many times has he been touted for a Spain call up?
Baston is certainly not the type of player im describing, so his age and his signing in general is not relevant at all. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:04 - Jul 16 with 1693 views | jack247 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:57 - Jul 16 by E20Jack |
So did costs.
Who is saying don't replace him with quality though?
Thats certainly not my view. |
Which costs went up?
You are advocating either buying cheaper, younger or both. If we can get a cheaper, younger player who is just as good, then I agree with you. If we can't, a £15m profit between the two sales would represent decent business, as long as he is fit for purpose.
The be all and end all is staying up. | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:06 - Jul 16 with 1675 views | jack247 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 22:58 - Jul 16 by Borojack |
The point I am trying to make is our record signing is a young and hungry player who did nothing to justify the fee.
All signings are a gamble but we should be signing on ability.
Age for me is secondary.
I know nothing about the player mentioned in this thread but if Clement and the scouting team think he warrants the fee that's good enough for me.
But I don't think for a minute we would pay 30 million euro for this player. |
I don't know how accurate the reports are, but if he has a €30m buy out clause and we opened the bidding at €25m, I'd expect us to be back in for him | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:09 - Jul 16 with 1660 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 23:04 - Jul 16 by jack247 |
Which costs went up?
You are advocating either buying cheaper, younger or both. If we can get a cheaper, younger player who is just as good, then I agree with you. If we can't, a £15m profit between the two sales would represent decent business, as long as he is fit for purpose.
The be all and end all is staying up. |
Our operating costs have increased year on year and no doubt will comtinue to do so. We posted a £14.2m loss on our last set of accounts.
There is nothing to positively advocate at the moment. There is a potential deal on the table to sign a 27 year old with a sketchy record, signed for £700k season before last.... for €30m (?!) which I am certainly not advocating in any way shape or form.
I am stating that with that amount of money, there absolutely is a better method to replace Gylfi which has a higher chance of protecting the long term goals to have a club in the PL - and that is to sign proven class, at a younger age to enable the cycle to continue when they leave and we get to sell at peak value - not buy at peak value.
The be all end end all is most certainly not staying up. It is ensuring we give ourselves the best chance to stay up for a prolonged period of time. Not spunking it all so we get a good few years. [Post edited 16 Jul 2017 23:15]
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