| sad but true 00:07 - Jun 20 with 8765 views | shrewranger |
at the end of the england game tonight my son,a rangers fan .texted me to say,..if england had played terry and cole instead of baines and jagielka we would have a few more points than we have now,i tend to agree... |  | | |  |
| sad but true on 11:57 - Jun 20 with 1543 views | Ingham |
daveB said it.
We know any permutation might work out. That's part of our confusion. As someone said, weren't the old guard the ones who performed so insipidly last time?
We know QPR might play in the World Cup and they MIGHT win it. Anyone MIGHT. The issue is how likely it is.
We have three dominant countries in the World Cup, way ahead of all the rest, with 12 wins between them in 19 Finals, and appearances in almost every Final.
But even Brazil have only won 5 out of 19. 14 failures, compared to 5 wins. And 3 of those 5 wins in four tournaments.
But we never make any use of our failures. Our mindset never changes. We quickly say 'next time', and think that doing the same thing every time will finally 'work out'.
It is difficult for every country to decide on their best team. Even when some players pick themselves, managers often treat them warily. They become prima donnas, they get too much attention from the opposition, or they unbalance the team.
And most games England play are marginal. Even at the end, it could have gone any one of three ways last night.
To overcome that kind of thing, and make England one level better (a realistic Semi Final contender, but not good enough to win) would require the sort of thinking our Clubs had in the late seventies and early eighties.
Some way of reducing the odds in our favour. Liverpool and their fan club never played like Ajax or Real Madrid. But they found a way that suited them and the English game. They were very defensive-minded, but always as a means of turning defence into attack.
But you can't just tell the players. It must become second nature, as Liverpool did with their training system. Repetition, over and over again, of the basics. Exploit any errors, create chances, and, when defending, do the same in reverse. No mistakes (except own goals in semi-finals against QPR, thanks, chaps), and no chances going begging.
We don't even try, because we know it is tough, and with the big money in the Premier League for the people running the game, it is secondary. SELLING the game, and the World Cup, is what matters. Not winning it. They have no idea how to win it.
We are strong. As footballers, we are nothing in world terms. But we overperform madly to get to this level. That is a strength. Either we need to develop better players to exploit it, or we need to develop a system to make things easier for non-stellar players.
Liverpool adapted their striker role very well. Ponderous but determined Roger Hunt, Keegan's relentless guts, Rush's cool pace, Dalglish's generalling qualities, and the Irish guy whose name completely escapes me, a strange successor to Keegan and Rush, but who could hardly stop himself from scoring. Awkward looking, no pace, but they just gave him the ball where he wanted it, and he contrived to get it in.
They were able to make decisions like that because they had a framework against which to make them. And it was a framework that had a track record. We're still doing all the things that never worked, and telling ourselves we'll get it right.
Yes, but we don't know what 'it' is.
There is no single formula, there may be rules of thumb. You have to work with what you can get.
Best of all is that they are ALL losers. Even Brazil, Even Man Utd. Most of what they do is failure.
If the great managers had one thing in common, one key to it all that they all understood, my guess would be that it was that. Not only are they all losers, they are EXPERTS at losing. Even Germany.
Give the opportunities to them in the way they're used to getting them, and they will defeat themselves. They expect it. In their heart of hearts, they expect it. That is the slimy underbelly of 'belief'. If belief worked, every team would win.
They're all scared of failure. Underneath the bravado. There is something big to exploit there, but do we know how to exploit it. We always expose our weaknesses for them to get at. When we understand how to minimise those risk, we will have learned something.
Clough knew it, Ramsey knew it, Paisley knew it, and no doubt Ferguson knew it too. All of them won in Europe or at the World level, against teams which were far more the fancy dans of world cup legend.
It can be done. At the moment, we lack the honesty to admit the magnitude of our failings.
All the others are dreamers too. If we get real, at least we might see THEM for what they are. And that's a start. |  | | |
| sad but true on 12:54 - Jun 20 with 1507 views | Nov77 |
| sad but true on 10:12 - Jun 20 by TW_R |
Yeah - but so did Upson, James and Barry. I remember one goal where James dives out of the way of the ball. |
Joe hart dived out of the way of suarez's second, if he'd stood up the ball would of hit him. |  |
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| sad but true on 12:59 - Jun 20 with 1502 views | kysersosaqpr |
Not the defence - if Rooney had put away his three clear cut chances in the two games we'd be through. Any defence will occasionally get breached with likes of balotelli an Suarez. We should have out scored them both, but missed the sort of chances they tucked away. | |
| The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. |
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| sad but true on 13:04 - Jun 20 with 1497 views | R_from_afar |
It's not only about the defence. We need one or even two *defensive* midfielders to provide proper cover. Players willing to hold their position, track back, mark properly, concentrate, nick the ball cleanly and move it on to a creative player. Players with grit, focus and determination.
The trouble is, at almost every level of the game, such players are unfashionable and mostly detested. Tackling and marking are not highly rated skills.
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| sad but true on 13:05 - Jun 20 with 1497 views | Harps1609 |
| sad but true on 12:54 - Jun 20 by Nov77 |
Joe hart dived out of the way of suarez's second, if he'd stood up the ball would of hit him. |
1 on 1 from that angle, the keeper needs to stand tall, not do a star jump!!
Hart had no chance for the first but should have saved the second IMO. | | | |
| sad but true on 13:18 - Jun 20 with 1485 views | SpiritofGregory |
| sad but true on 11:57 - Jun 20 by Ingham |
daveB said it.
We know any permutation might work out. That's part of our confusion. As someone said, weren't the old guard the ones who performed so insipidly last time?
We know QPR might play in the World Cup and they MIGHT win it. Anyone MIGHT. The issue is how likely it is.
We have three dominant countries in the World Cup, way ahead of all the rest, with 12 wins between them in 19 Finals, and appearances in almost every Final.
But even Brazil have only won 5 out of 19. 14 failures, compared to 5 wins. And 3 of those 5 wins in four tournaments.
But we never make any use of our failures. Our mindset never changes. We quickly say 'next time', and think that doing the same thing every time will finally 'work out'.
It is difficult for every country to decide on their best team. Even when some players pick themselves, managers often treat them warily. They become prima donnas, they get too much attention from the opposition, or they unbalance the team.
And most games England play are marginal. Even at the end, it could have gone any one of three ways last night.
To overcome that kind of thing, and make England one level better (a realistic Semi Final contender, but not good enough to win) would require the sort of thinking our Clubs had in the late seventies and early eighties.
Some way of reducing the odds in our favour. Liverpool and their fan club never played like Ajax or Real Madrid. But they found a way that suited them and the English game. They were very defensive-minded, but always as a means of turning defence into attack.
But you can't just tell the players. It must become second nature, as Liverpool did with their training system. Repetition, over and over again, of the basics. Exploit any errors, create chances, and, when defending, do the same in reverse. No mistakes (except own goals in semi-finals against QPR, thanks, chaps), and no chances going begging.
We don't even try, because we know it is tough, and with the big money in the Premier League for the people running the game, it is secondary. SELLING the game, and the World Cup, is what matters. Not winning it. They have no idea how to win it.
We are strong. As footballers, we are nothing in world terms. But we overperform madly to get to this level. That is a strength. Either we need to develop better players to exploit it, or we need to develop a system to make things easier for non-stellar players.
Liverpool adapted their striker role very well. Ponderous but determined Roger Hunt, Keegan's relentless guts, Rush's cool pace, Dalglish's generalling qualities, and the Irish guy whose name completely escapes me, a strange successor to Keegan and Rush, but who could hardly stop himself from scoring. Awkward looking, no pace, but they just gave him the ball where he wanted it, and he contrived to get it in.
They were able to make decisions like that because they had a framework against which to make them. And it was a framework that had a track record. We're still doing all the things that never worked, and telling ourselves we'll get it right.
Yes, but we don't know what 'it' is.
There is no single formula, there may be rules of thumb. You have to work with what you can get.
Best of all is that they are ALL losers. Even Brazil, Even Man Utd. Most of what they do is failure.
If the great managers had one thing in common, one key to it all that they all understood, my guess would be that it was that. Not only are they all losers, they are EXPERTS at losing. Even Germany.
Give the opportunities to them in the way they're used to getting them, and they will defeat themselves. They expect it. In their heart of hearts, they expect it. That is the slimy underbelly of 'belief'. If belief worked, every team would win.
They're all scared of failure. Underneath the bravado. There is something big to exploit there, but do we know how to exploit it. We always expose our weaknesses for them to get at. When we understand how to minimise those risk, we will have learned something.
Clough knew it, Ramsey knew it, Paisley knew it, and no doubt Ferguson knew it too. All of them won in Europe or at the World level, against teams which were far more the fancy dans of world cup legend.
It can be done. At the moment, we lack the honesty to admit the magnitude of our failings.
All the others are dreamers too. If we get real, at least we might see THEM for what they are. And that's a start. |
There is a lack of passion. The England players aren't proud to represent their country. If you are proud to represent your country, you will make sure that you play for the team, are fit and fight for every ball. Why is it that a Scotsman can say that he is proud to be Scottish yet an Englishman is brainwashed into saying that they are British ? I always correct people when they say I am British - I am English.
There was a player for Uraguay who suffered concussion and was defying the team doctor who was trying to stop him from running back on to the pitch. Suarez had keyhole surgery on his knee 5 weeks ago but made sure that he was fighting fit for last nights game.
The FA don't care about the national team, they just want to line their pockets. The funding of grass roots football is a disgrace, there should be quotas placed on clubs to develop English players and to enhance their passing and skill levels. Like I've said before money talks and the only way to force the FA to change their attitude is to hit them in the pocket. The fans need place sanctions on FA products.
Yes Uraguay have a population of approx 4m and we have many more therefore the law of averages states that we should do better. However the statement does not show that the top football league and academys in Uraguay contain mostly players from Uraguay whilst ours contain few Englishmen therefore they will nurture their players much more than we nurture ours. If their players then excel they will move to clubs in Argentina, Brazil and Spain where there is a focus on technical ability. |  | | |
| sad but true on 13:19 - Jun 20 with 1485 views | Tonto |
taking Terry and Cole would be a HUGE backwards step. They are part of the been there didn't do that generation. OK so we may have got a point or two, but this squad is as much about the future as it is about the now.
Give the younger playyers their chance to get expereince, learn from their mistakes, and hopefully be better for it at the next tournament, when Terry and Cole will have long since retired and will be committing adultery with a different set of scags |  |
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| sad but true on 13:22 - Jun 20 with 1475 views | TacticalR |
Uruguay were winning World Cups when we were still swinging from the trees. [Post edited 20 Jun 2014 13:23]
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| sad but true on 10:20 - Jun 22 with 1415 views | TW_R |
| sad but true on 10:54 - Jun 20 by simmo |
SO WHAT! Do you want to win the game against Uruguay last night or do you want a better chance to win an actual tournament in 6/8/12 years?! |
Well Cahill is 28 and Jagielka is 32 in a couple of months. If they're both being selected in 6 years time we really are screwed.
The WC only comes round once every 4 years. Personally I think you should be selecting the players you think are the best to help you win the tournament. There are plenty of qualifiers and friendlies to give new players a go. Hodgson would probably argue he did that, but are there really no better players than Jagielka and Henderson? |  | | |
| sad but true on 15:34 - Jun 22 with 1374 views | RangersAreBack |
| sad but true on 00:46 - Jun 20 by Nov77 |
Didn't terry and cole play in the last World Cup when we got stuffed by Germany? |
Yes, though Upson was Terry's partner. Klose scored a similarly ridiculous route one goal. |  | | |
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