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Lloyd - Lone Striker Role on 19:13 - Dec 14 by 1JD
Time will tell, but he’s a more complete striker than Armstrong, who has pace and that’s about it. I watched sinclair in our youth set up and first posted about him on here. The report reads as it did then - rapid and promising but no touch or back to goal game. That hasn’t changed. Which Bristol City fans are finding out, much to their dislike.
Whilst Lloyd also lacks touch and technique, he retains the ball more often, even if it is in an unorthodox fashion. Whereas playing into Armstrong was like hitting a pin ball machine. That counts for a lot - and if Lloyd can hold it up, whilst also running the channels in behind, he’ll have a better career than Sinclair. And whilst not showing it yet for the first team, he also a far better finisher based on seeing him in u21s. Again, Sinclair significantly lacks in that department.
For us anoraks on here who like this level of insight, this post is spot on, tho does beg the question why did Cifuentes start him in must not lose games and what were Bristol City thinking spending that money on him?
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Lloyd - Lone Striker Role on 13:21 - Dec 15 with 1129 views
Lloyd - Lone Striker Role on 12:17 - Dec 15 by ParkRoyalR
For us anoraks on here who like this level of insight, this post is spot on, tho does beg the question why did Cifuentes start him in must not lose games and what were Bristol City thinking spending that money on him?
I think because the allure of Armstrong is what reels you in. You witness the explosive pace, and the subsequent threat of playing on the shoulder and running in behind. And you think, wow, what potential.
But that’s a surface level analysis. Can he do the basics? Can he control the football? Does he have game intelligence? Does he have striker smarts? Does he know when to run, when to hold? Can he beat a man with a trick? Can he finish? And so on. Can any of this be trained? Can some of it? All of it? None of it?
However, the punchline is that all of these attributes - and your base starting level - determine your likelihood of “making it at a given standard”. And the higher the league - the higher the attribute(s) required. The lower your starting level, the less likelihood you have of raising it to the levels required.
How you assess needed attributes and how you score those attributes, is a matter of perspective. And how you predict the level can be enhanced to the degree needed, is again a matter of perspective. That’s the difference between a good scout and an average one. What they see, versus what you do not.
Practical & Simplified Example: If I score Armstrong at 3/10. And think he can get to 5/10. (Jumping 2 levels is reasonable via training and practice). But another scout scores him at 5/10 and thinks he can also jump 2 levels to 7/10. We have a different opinion. I assess he won’t make it, you assess he will.
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Lloyd - Lone Striker Role on 13:39 - Dec 15 with 1057 views
The guy played 6 games (no goals) for Shamrock Rovers reserves - that was his 'starting level' before coming to us'. Since then, he's managed a paltry 6 goals in nearly 80 games for us and Brizzle. He's a non-scoring barnstorming winger, probably at League One level, for me, at best. Failing that, an amateur boxer.
Lloyd - Lone Striker Role on 13:21 - Dec 15 by 1JD
I think because the allure of Armstrong is what reels you in. You witness the explosive pace, and the subsequent threat of playing on the shoulder and running in behind. And you think, wow, what potential.
But that’s a surface level analysis. Can he do the basics? Can he control the football? Does he have game intelligence? Does he have striker smarts? Does he know when to run, when to hold? Can he beat a man with a trick? Can he finish? And so on. Can any of this be trained? Can some of it? All of it? None of it?
However, the punchline is that all of these attributes - and your base starting level - determine your likelihood of “making it at a given standard”. And the higher the league - the higher the attribute(s) required. The lower your starting level, the less likelihood you have of raising it to the levels required.
How you assess needed attributes and how you score those attributes, is a matter of perspective. And how you predict the level can be enhanced to the degree needed, is again a matter of perspective. That’s the difference between a good scout and an average one. What they see, versus what you do not.
Practical & Simplified Example: If I score Armstrong at 3/10. And think he can get to 5/10. (Jumping 2 levels is reasonable via training and practice). But another scout scores him at 5/10 and thinks he can also jump 2 levels to 7/10. We have a different opinion. I assess he won’t make it, you assess he will.
I think players who have genuine pace will always get chances to develop all those other skills over players with no pace as a lot of the other attributes can be coached/learned.
Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man
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Lloyd - Lone Striker Role on 15:10 - Dec 15 with 925 views
Lloyd - Lone Striker Role on 14:48 - Dec 15 by OldPedro
I think players who have genuine pace will always get chances to develop all those other skills over players with no pace as a lot of the other attributes can be coached/learned.
Agree, he’ll be given a chance versus others than don’t have the electric pace. But it’s a busted flush. A striker at this level requires upwards of at least 10+ core attributes. Not meaning to be harsh, but SA has 1 of 10. That’s 10%. And a huge gap to fill.
And most of those attributes, contrary to popular belief by fans, cannot be trained (at least to the level required). It’s not normal to go from Sunday league touch, to championship-level touch, with training. Even on a daily basis. If that were the case, all sprinters would be footballers, and they are not for good reason.
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Lloyd - Lone Striker Role on 17:04 - Dec 15 with 792 views
I’ve always thought why lower-league academies don’t train players (or perhaps they do) from a young age to be hyper-specialized in a specific role. E.G, "The Back-to-Goal 1-in-5 Striker" - a player whose sole job is to take balls pinged at them from all angles, hold off defenders, and bring others into play. Think Gallen or Zamora - not prolific but invaluable for their hold-up play.
It’s common to see a player doing it all at youth level. But when they reach 1st team, their game usually focuses on a few key attributes, as the rest often fall short.
If a player were groomed from the age of 8 to master a specific role like the "Back-to-Goal Striker," they could train daily on:
• Aerial control to bring down lofted passes and draw fouls. • Hold-up play to shield the ball under pressure, knock-ons, one touch lay-offs etc.
By the time they reached senior level, they’d be specialists in their craft - an absolute shield, useful in actual real game scenarios. Surely the above is more achievable than hoping to produce a 20-goal a season striker that inevitably ends up in the Isthmian League.
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Lloyd - Lone Striker Role on 17:33 - Dec 15 with 721 views
Lloyd - Lone Striker Role on 17:04 - Dec 15 by Pdog
I’ve always thought why lower-league academies don’t train players (or perhaps they do) from a young age to be hyper-specialized in a specific role. E.G, "The Back-to-Goal 1-in-5 Striker" - a player whose sole job is to take balls pinged at them from all angles, hold off defenders, and bring others into play. Think Gallen or Zamora - not prolific but invaluable for their hold-up play.
It’s common to see a player doing it all at youth level. But when they reach 1st team, their game usually focuses on a few key attributes, as the rest often fall short.
If a player were groomed from the age of 8 to master a specific role like the "Back-to-Goal Striker," they could train daily on:
• Aerial control to bring down lofted passes and draw fouls. • Hold-up play to shield the ball under pressure, knock-ons, one touch lay-offs etc.
By the time they reached senior level, they’d be specialists in their craft - an absolute shield, useful in actual real game scenarios. Surely the above is more achievable than hoping to produce a 20-goal a season striker that inevitably ends up in the Isthmian League.
They do exactly this. But you still need a high level of back-to-goal talent to begin with. Again, it’s back to how good you are with this, naturally? What is your base level of ability back to goal? Do you score highly in this attribute as a kid?
The championship/ prem is an elite level sport. Furlong and Gallen likely had a back to goal game in an elite group to begin with. Or perhaps their touch was so good (talent), but the strength wasn’t there (physical), initially.
You can work with that because their natural talent is so high from the get go. But the physical is not, yet. (See Alfie Tuck). What you don’t want it is the other way around. (See Sinclair) , that’s far harder to pull off.
Lloyd - Lone Striker Role on 17:33 - Dec 15 by 1JD
They do exactly this. But you still need a high level of back-to-goal talent to begin with. Again, it’s back to how good you are with this, naturally? What is your base level of ability back to goal? Do you score highly in this attribute as a kid?
The championship/ prem is an elite level sport. Furlong and Gallen likely had a back to goal game in an elite group to begin with. Or perhaps their touch was so good (talent), but the strength wasn’t there (physical), initially.
You can work with that because their natural talent is so high from the get go. But the physical is not, yet. (See Alfie Tuck). What you don’t want it is the other way around. (See Sinclair) , that’s far harder to pull off.
It’s nature v nurture. You can’t polish a turd.
Or maybe you can, but it’s still a turd!
You are right of course about his future prospects but you could bet he will score when they come to LR in April and that will be galling..
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Lloyd - Lone Striker Role on 18:17 - Dec 15 with 608 views
Lloyd - Lone Striker Role on 17:33 - Dec 15 by 1JD
They do exactly this. But you still need a high level of back-to-goal talent to begin with. Again, it’s back to how good you are with this, naturally? What is your base level of ability back to goal? Do you score highly in this attribute as a kid?
The championship/ prem is an elite level sport. Furlong and Gallen likely had a back to goal game in an elite group to begin with. Or perhaps their touch was so good (talent), but the strength wasn’t there (physical), initially.
You can work with that because their natural talent is so high from the get go. But the physical is not, yet. (See Alfie Tuck). What you don’t want it is the other way around. (See Sinclair) , that’s far harder to pull off.
It’s nature v nurture. You can’t polish a turd.
Or maybe you can, but it’s still a turd!
So if Armstrong had enrolled in the Pdog Back-to-goal academy at age 11, and we dedicated training at this attribute to complement his physical, it’s likely that the attribute still wouldn’t stand out today due to a lower baseline of natural ability?
Yeah i see that.. or could it depend on how far his potential would allow him to climb the ladder of that particular attribute?
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Lloyd - Lone Striker Role on 18:24 - Dec 15 with 598 views
Lloyd - Lone Striker Role on 18:03 - Dec 15 by Harbour
You are right of course about his future prospects but you could bet he will score when they come to LR in April and that will be galling..
To be honest, I'm not really bothered about how Armstrong progresses or not - he didn't want to sign another contract to stay, so we sold him while we could.
Extra mature cheddar......a simple cheese for a simple man
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