| Utterly Sick of It 21:55 - Sep 17 with 31835 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Our club competes for three competitions every year.
We toss off two of them.
In doing so, we disrespect those two competitions, our opponents, and ourselves.
I will never, never understand it.
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| Utterly Sick of It on 13:44 - Sep 18 with 2242 views | GroveR |
| Utterly Sick of It on 23:55 - Sep 17 by Northernr |
I think, fundamentally, I would like it if we'd tackled them every now and again. I accept everything, I know who we are, who they are, where this competition figures. I get it. But you can tackle them. It's okay, you can. It's Palace.
Actually, edit, I think the issue here is I'd rather win tonight than Saturday. I'd have chucked everything at that tonight. But the whole of the sport now disagrees. So I'm just old man shouting at cloud.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
You keep saying it's OK to tackle them but with that fùcking danger Sunny Delight running around in the middle, I'm not sure that's entirely accurate.
Varane (I think) was penalised at one stage for standing too close to Eze, who had the grace to at least look embarrassed. Kamada waved on with cynical tackles we're getting booked for.
We weren't the only ones showing Palace too much respect last night. |  | | |
| Utterly Sick of It on 13:52 - Sep 18 with 2181 views | Northernr |
| Utterly Sick of It on 13:44 - Sep 18 by GroveR |
You keep saying it's OK to tackle them but with that fùcking danger Sunny Delight running around in the middle, I'm not sure that's entirely accurate.
Varane (I think) was penalised at one stage for standing too close to Eze, who had the grace to at least look embarrassed. Kamada waved on with cynical tackles we're getting booked for.
We weren't the only ones showing Palace too much respect last night. |
I didn't think he was too bad, few decisions notwithstanding.
It's all given us something to talk about anyway haha. Can't quite recall a game where we've all been to the same match and come out with such polarised opinions on here. |  | | |
| Utterly Sick of It on 13:54 - Sep 18 with 2175 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Utterly Sick of It on 13:52 - Sep 18 by Northernr |
I didn't think he was too bad, few decisions notwithstanding.
It's all given us something to talk about anyway haha. Can't quite recall a game where we've all been to the same match and come out with such polarised opinions on here. |
Best of luck writing the match report!  | |
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| Utterly Sick of It on 13:58 - Sep 18 with 2127 views | BklynRanger |
I understand people talking about Dembele starting, but I thought the half he had last night was a bit of a learning curve for him too.
I saw at least 2 or 3 moves close up where he delayed a bit or thought he'd beaten his man when he hadn't, and lost the ball. Granted EDB's first 4 touches were all total duds but I thought he got better and is worth persevering with.
Which of course goes back to the question of whether this was the game to do that persevering, or during the long league season. I'd go with the latter on that choice last night I must admit. |  | | |
| Utterly Sick of It on 14:03 - Sep 18 with 2098 views | Northernr |
| Utterly Sick of It on 13:54 - Sep 18 by BrianMcCarthy |
Best of luck writing the match report! |
It's actually a really interesting one and takes me back to another polarising debate on here about whether Gareth Southgate was any good as England manager or not.
It's really easy to back both the idea Southgate was excellent and the idea he wasted our best opportunity for major trophies, with loads of compelling evidence, depending on which side of the argument you're on. But it's only a few moments. A couple of missed penalties going in, a Guehi header being cleared from the line, a Spain goal that's a milisecond or a different shoe size from being offside, that need to go the other way for him to be winning 1, 2, 3 trophies for England even and he's off to the palace to become Sir Gareth.
You're annoyed about last night. I came away a bit peeved. Others are the other way. And there's loads you can go on for both sides. But you can play the same game again, Eze doesn't get the deflection and/or Lloyd scores at the end and it's completely different - from the same game, with the same team selections. | | | |
| Utterly Sick of It on 14:18 - Sep 18 with 2026 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Utterly Sick of It on 14:03 - Sep 18 by Northernr |
It's actually a really interesting one and takes me back to another polarising debate on here about whether Gareth Southgate was any good as England manager or not.
It's really easy to back both the idea Southgate was excellent and the idea he wasted our best opportunity for major trophies, with loads of compelling evidence, depending on which side of the argument you're on. But it's only a few moments. A couple of missed penalties going in, a Guehi header being cleared from the line, a Spain goal that's a milisecond or a different shoe size from being offside, that need to go the other way for him to be winning 1, 2, 3 trophies for England even and he's off to the palace to become Sir Gareth.
You're annoyed about last night. I came away a bit peeved. Others are the other way. And there's loads you can go on for both sides. But you can play the same game again, Eze doesn't get the deflection and/or Lloyd scores at the end and it's completely different - from the same game, with the same team selections. |
All very true. Totally accept that.
The Southgate debate is a good comparison. No-one was changing their mind on him. Even if he had won a couple of tournaments, many people would have said that another manager would have won more, or won better.
What I've found interesting about this morning is that posters who normally agree with each other feel differently on this debate. And I suspect none of us will change our mind too easily. I doubt if I will.
For that reason, I do think that the few posters who suggested that it's a philosophical debate are probably correct. Even if we had won last night, for instance, I would still feel off about that teamsheet. And I'm not even saying that I'm right: it's just how I think. | |
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| Utterly Sick of It on 14:29 - Sep 18 with 1970 views | Juzzie |
It's a bit like being awash with football stats.... XG this, blocked shots that, % possession the other and so on.
In the end, there's only one stat that counts.... the FT score.
Everything else just fills up MoTD/media/SM space which is what actually dominates things. |  | | |
| Utterly Sick of It on 14:45 - Sep 18 with 1906 views | joe90 |
| Utterly Sick of It on 14:29 - Sep 18 by Juzzie |
It's a bit like being awash with football stats.... XG this, blocked shots that, % possession the other and so on.
In the end, there's only one stat that counts.... the FT score.
Everything else just fills up MoTD/media/SM space which is what actually dominates things. |
Agree and disagree...the FT score is the only stat that counts in a cup competition. There's none of this 'we go again'.
However, over the course of season, if used well, stats can really help you. Small margins, big gains and all that.
The problem I have with stats is they don't always follow how we as fans watch the game, and an over reliance can stifle instinctive more entraining style of play.
Anyway, QPR lost in the cup and we're all complaining about the same things we complain about every season. It's reassuring given the current climate of uncertainty. [Post edited 18 Sep 14:49]
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| Utterly Sick of It on 14:54 - Sep 18 with 1866 views | daveB |
| Utterly Sick of It on 12:35 - Sep 18 by Ned_Kennedys |
Reading some of the posts on here we might as well bin off all Cup games at the first opportunity so we avoid extra pesky midweek games and the players are not ‘overloaded’ and by doing so we will avoid injuries as these only occur during these inconvenient Cup games.
Then we can concentrate on reaching 16th place and play our very best for the really big league games of the season like Millwall at home and Preston away. |
That seems a bit over the top, not sure anyone is actually saying that
The changes last night were not about saving tired players it was giving players an opportunity.
I would say 8 of the team from last night's starting 11 will feature on Saturday either starting or coming on (Paal, Field, Cook, Varane. Madsen, Smyth, Saito and Celar), all 4 subs who came on likely to be involved as well
[Post edited 18 Sep 14:58]
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| Utterly Sick of It on 15:00 - Sep 18 with 1817 views | TheChef |
I think as pointed out already we played our best possible team last Saturday and they were very lucky to come away with a draw against a fairly crap Wednesday side.
Last night we had something of a patched up team against a decent virtually full strength PL team, who came a whisker away from a potential 2-2 draw and a penalty shoot out. There seems to be some expectation that we could have done more and therefore probably won the game? I could maybe understand the annoyance had it been another Championship team or from the leagues below, but not really this.
Yes it's disappointing but in the end, we take the positives and move on.
Look forward to doing this all over again for the FA Cup  |  |
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| Utterly Sick of It on 15:23 - Sep 18 with 1731 views | Paddyhoops |
| Utterly Sick of It on 14:03 - Sep 18 by Northernr |
It's actually a really interesting one and takes me back to another polarising debate on here about whether Gareth Southgate was any good as England manager or not.
It's really easy to back both the idea Southgate was excellent and the idea he wasted our best opportunity for major trophies, with loads of compelling evidence, depending on which side of the argument you're on. But it's only a few moments. A couple of missed penalties going in, a Guehi header being cleared from the line, a Spain goal that's a milisecond or a different shoe size from being offside, that need to go the other way for him to be winning 1, 2, 3 trophies for England even and he's off to the palace to become Sir Gareth.
You're annoyed about last night. I came away a bit peeved. Others are the other way. And there's loads you can go on for both sides. But you can play the same game again, Eze doesn't get the deflection and/or Lloyd scores at the end and it's completely different - from the same game, with the same team selections. |
I said before on the thread that there was really good atmosphere in the lower loft standing .
A few new faces in there as it was a cup match but in general the usual grizzled 40 to 60 year olds showed up . Still going nuts and acting like 20 year olds when Field banged that one .
Disappointed at the result but generally happy with the performance and where we are in comparison to this time last year.
I get where Brian is coming but this year is about improving from last years nerve shredding season .
If that’s getting to top ten and making it through a couple of rounds of cup competition, I’ll take it .
Call me Mr unambitous. |  | | |
| Utterly Sick of It on 15:24 - Sep 18 with 1715 views | vanrrrr |
| Utterly Sick of It on 13:52 - Sep 18 by Northernr |
I didn't think he was too bad, few decisions notwithstanding.
It's all given us something to talk about anyway haha. Can't quite recall a game where we've all been to the same match and come out with such polarised opinions on here. |
After the game last night I was actually feeling much better than I did walking out Saturday...was a bit surprised by some of the negativity today
We better win Saturday or the pitchforks will be out!! | | | |
| Utterly Sick of It on 15:30 - Sep 18 with 1689 views | daveB |
| Utterly Sick of It on 14:18 - Sep 18 by BrianMcCarthy |
All very true. Totally accept that.
The Southgate debate is a good comparison. No-one was changing their mind on him. Even if he had won a couple of tournaments, many people would have said that another manager would have won more, or won better.
What I've found interesting about this morning is that posters who normally agree with each other feel differently on this debate. And I suspect none of us will change our mind too easily. I doubt if I will.
For that reason, I do think that the few posters who suggested that it's a philosophical debate are probably correct. Even if we had won last night, for instance, I would still feel off about that teamsheet. And I'm not even saying that I'm right: it's just how I think. |
If that team started a league game would you feel angry about it? If that was a league game other than changing the keeper I'm not sure many people would complain.
For me a far bigger problem than which players started was our tactics to stand off them and have zero attacking threat, whenever we got the ball there were no options to get out of our half until Marti changed things at half time. That problem was there on Saturday at Sheffield Wednesday as well in the first half | | | |
| Utterly Sick of It on 15:31 - Sep 18 with 1675 views | TheChef |
| Utterly Sick of It on 15:24 - Sep 18 by vanrrrr |
After the game last night I was actually feeling much better than I did walking out Saturday...was a bit surprised by some of the negativity today
We better win Saturday or the pitchforks will be out!! |
Absolutely nailed on we lose on Saturday | |
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| Utterly Sick of It on 15:42 - Sep 18 with 1617 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Utterly Sick of It on 15:30 - Sep 18 by daveB |
If that team started a league game would you feel angry about it? If that was a league game other than changing the keeper I'm not sure many people would complain.
For me a far bigger problem than which players started was our tactics to stand off them and have zero attacking threat, whenever we got the ball there were no options to get out of our half until Marti changed things at half time. That problem was there on Saturday at Sheffield Wednesday as well in the first half |
"If that team started a league game would you feel angry about it?"
Good question. Funnily enough, Dave, I asked that question of myself this morning (during one of those much-needed personal sanity checks!). For what it's worth, I think that I'd be very disappointed. And very worried. But overall I'd prefer the management rest players for a league game than a knockout cup game. | |
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| Utterly Sick of It on 15:46 - Sep 18 with 1572 views | rbee |
| Utterly Sick of It on 12:35 - Sep 18 by Ned_Kennedys |
Reading some of the posts on here we might as well bin off all Cup games at the first opportunity so we avoid extra pesky midweek games and the players are not ‘overloaded’ and by doing so we will avoid injuries as these only occur during these inconvenient Cup games.
Then we can concentrate on reaching 16th place and play our very best for the really big league games of the season like Millwall at home and Preston away. |
As I said earlier we have played 'weakened teams' in cup games under several managers in recent seasons so it has to be a club policy.
Having said that we don't bin off games, that would be playing the kids, we give fringe players the chance to play. |  | | |
| Utterly Sick of It on 15:51 - Sep 18 with 1529 views | rbee |
| Utterly Sick of It on 14:54 - Sep 18 by daveB |
That seems a bit over the top, not sure anyone is actually saying that
The changes last night were not about saving tired players it was giving players an opportunity.
I would say 8 of the team from last night's starting 11 will feature on Saturday either starting or coming on (Paal, Field, Cook, Varane. Madsen, Smyth, Saito and Celar), all 4 subs who came on likely to be involved as well
[Post edited 18 Sep 14:58]
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I think Ben Williams and his team recommend that certain players don't play in the cup games. For instance Cook always plays but Dunne is rested. | | | |
| Utterly Sick of It on 15:51 - Sep 18 with 1527 views | dm97 |
| Utterly Sick of It on 15:42 - Sep 18 by BrianMcCarthy |
"If that team started a league game would you feel angry about it?"
Good question. Funnily enough, Dave, I asked that question of myself this morning (during one of those much-needed personal sanity checks!). For what it's worth, I think that I'd be very disappointed. And very worried. But overall I'd prefer the management rest players for a league game than a knockout cup game. |
Field at CB (albeit a mini injury crises and he actually did quite well), Walsh and EDB aside - would you actually be disappointed given current injuries? There will absolutely be games this season where that team isn’t too far off a normal league game side.
Broken record but this isn’t Drewe and Kelman you’re talking about. 2/3 midfielders last night cost about 3.5 mil between them. Add in a (low confidence) c.2 mil striker. Nourry has explicitly said we’ve invested to able to have a deeper squad so we’re not Illy and Willy FC.
I have to be honest I’m finding this idea that last nights team was incredibly weak to be very very odd, bar the exceptions above. |  | | |
| Utterly Sick of It on 15:56 - Sep 18 with 1491 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Utterly Sick of It on 15:51 - Sep 18 by dm97 |
Field at CB (albeit a mini injury crises and he actually did quite well), Walsh and EDB aside - would you actually be disappointed given current injuries? There will absolutely be games this season where that team isn’t too far off a normal league game side.
Broken record but this isn’t Drewe and Kelman you’re talking about. 2/3 midfielders last night cost about 3.5 mil between them. Add in a (low confidence) c.2 mil striker. Nourry has explicitly said we’ve invested to able to have a deeper squad so we’re not Illy and Willy FC.
I have to be honest I’m finding this idea that last nights team was incredibly weak to be very very odd, bar the exceptions above. |
"Field at CB (albeit a mini injury crises and he actually did quite well), Walsh and EDB aside - would you actually be disappointed given current injuries?"
Yes, I think I would, dm. Same response as to Dave's question. | |
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| Utterly Sick of It on 16:04 - Sep 18 with 1447 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| Utterly Sick of It on 15:51 - Sep 18 by dm97 |
Field at CB (albeit a mini injury crises and he actually did quite well), Walsh and EDB aside - would you actually be disappointed given current injuries? There will absolutely be games this season where that team isn’t too far off a normal league game side.
Broken record but this isn’t Drewe and Kelman you’re talking about. 2/3 midfielders last night cost about 3.5 mil between them. Add in a (low confidence) c.2 mil striker. Nourry has explicitly said we’ve invested to able to have a deeper squad so we’re not Illy and Willy FC.
I have to be honest I’m finding this idea that last nights team was incredibly weak to be very very odd, bar the exceptions above. |
It was CLEARLY weaker than it could have been.
A rare opportunity to play a latter stage Cup game at home against another London team under lights: some of us would treat this as a priority over a bog standard league game against Millwall.
Would have increased our chances of a win unless anyone can argue that EDB over Dembele for the whole game was a positive move?
I find it very very odd that some people have such little respect for the Cups and what QPR could achieve in them nowadays. |  | | |
| Utterly Sick of It on 16:18 - Sep 18 with 1364 views | daveB |
| Utterly Sick of It on 16:04 - Sep 18 by Ned_Kennedys |
It was CLEARLY weaker than it could have been.
A rare opportunity to play a latter stage Cup game at home against another London team under lights: some of us would treat this as a priority over a bog standard league game against Millwall.
Would have increased our chances of a win unless anyone can argue that EDB over Dembele for the whole game was a positive move?
I find it very very odd that some people have such little respect for the Cups and what QPR could achieve in them nowadays. |
He tends to make 3/4 changes to the middle game in a 3 game week normally whether it's league or cup so I'm not sure last night was a case of oh its the cup we won't bother and i think we're in an odd part of the season where we don't really have a strongest side yet, we've not had a single game yet where we have played well in both halves and that was the same last night.
Last few games it's been 4-3-3 so Dixon-Bonner was replacing Anderson last night with Smyth in for Dembele on the right, Madesn moved inside with Saito starting which given how they played at the weekend and how poor Madsen looked on the left I just don't see that as a lack of respect or lack of desire to win the game, he's still searching for the right balance in midfield. | | | |
| Utterly Sick of It on 16:29 - Sep 18 with 1304 views | numptydumpty |
My one over riding comment with all of this is, God help Marti when the line ups are announced for the FA cup third round in January !!!
Think this particular community online be best avoided that day !!!
Wtf happened to sensible people yesterday !!!
Can't be experiencing that again - am getting on a bit now - don't want to pick up anything dangerously contagious !!! 😂 |  |
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| Utterly Sick of It on 16:54 - Sep 18 with 1188 views | CateLeBonR |
| Utterly Sick of It on 15:56 - Sep 18 by BrianMcCarthy |
"Field at CB (albeit a mini injury crises and he actually did quite well), Walsh and EDB aside - would you actually be disappointed given current injuries?"
Yes, I think I would, dm. Same response as to Dave's question. |
As you allude to in your OP I don’t think this is just about last night. We’ve seen them field weakened sides for years and we have the worst record in the 3rd round of the FA cup of any club ever i believe. Our record in the league cup in the last 35 years isn’t much better either. Then we often follow it up by playing a crap league game, so what’s the point.
If you look at yesterday’s selection and performance in isolation it wasn’t bad at all but because of what’s happened in the past we’re more sensitive and critical and it’s completely understandable. [Post edited 18 Sep 16:56]
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| Utterly Sick of It on 17:12 - Sep 18 with 1085 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Utterly Sick of It on 10:29 - Sep 18 by TK1 |
The main thing about this thread that I find incredible is that I do not understand how anyone can look at how the team played at Sheffield Wednesday and say, yes, that's our best team. We were appalling. And in fact, all season we have only really played well for half an hour of any game at most.
The uncomfortable fact is neither we nor the coaching staff really know at this stage what the strongest team is. Our most expensive signings for some time all started last night. They *have* to work. And to work, they must play sometimes. Varane looks like he may have benefited from this. But the only two players we know are top quality - Chair and JCS - are injured. Without those two to hold it together, we are a whole new group trying to rub along.
Also, the idea already stated thread that "we will neither go up nor down this season" is mental. How could anyone look at the last three seasons and think that? We've been circling the drain. It's mid-September. We could easily go down. There's a lot to sort out with this squad |
The end of your first para. is the key worry.
I've been told off for saying (as echoed by Marti of late) that no team turns in a 90 minute performance at this level, a bit oddly. But, as you say, we play with passion and purpose for 30-45 minutes at most. Mostly, our first halves are tactically misconceived and /or energetically flat. if we had interviewers who kept on asking gutsy questions about that, perhaps we'd get some proper answers as to why. |  |
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| Utterly Sick of It on 17:17 - Sep 18 with 1063 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Utterly Sick of It on 15:51 - Sep 18 by rbee |
I think Ben Williams and his team recommend that certain players don't play in the cup games. For instance Cook always plays but Dunne is rested. |
Farcical and ridiculous if true!
I wish I had a manager who'd rest me, say, on Tuesdays because they're Tuesdays. | |
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