| Our Style Of Play 19:40 - Jul 25 with 5018 views | union_jack |
I don’t pretend to be an expert on tactics, formations etc. indeed far from it but the style of play we’ve adopted for quite a few years just has not worked for us.
If the Köln game was anything to go by, and I only saw snippets, it seems this playing out from the back is going to be on the agenda once again. I just don’t think we are equipped to be successful with this style. We invite pressure on ourselves because we don’t move the ball quick enough and invariably we end up losing it after a volley of passes which we can’t keep up with or sending the ball long and give away possession.
Now, I don’t know if the new additions are going to help, does anyone, but another season of frustration awaits methinks.
It would be good to hear from those more tactically savvy than me on this such as RichardO. And maybe try to persuade me otherwise😬? |  |
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| Our Style Of Play on 19:45 - Jul 25 with 2806 views | raynor94 |
After watching the Euros, teams were playing with a high tempo, and using wingers, with our signing of Eom and Ronald I was hoping we would be going down that line |  |
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| Our Style Of Play on 19:46 - Jul 25 with 2804 views | KeithHaynes |
I think playing a certain style trying to fit players in to roles is difficult.
I didn’t see any issues caused from the keeper playing out from the back last night. Fisher did it three times and Vigouroux did it when he could. It’s the way modern football is. |  |
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| Our Style Of Play on 19:50 - Jul 25 with 2787 views | Swans9 |
You can only do that style with better players than the opposition. I don't think Fisher is as bad as most posters on here. But I agree with you our squad is super thin. They all had a go at Duff and I was at Plymouth where we played well second half. It not about style its about depth of squad and that is why we lost to Brentford in the play off final. Hope I wrong but I think our squad poor. Lack investment and relying on past transfers of the u21 squad. Which is partly to do with Burnie was bought for 110k from Bradford I think and d James was bought for 100k or more from hull. I know I be corrected we all want best scfc stid |  | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 19:51 - Jul 25 with 2751 views | trampie |
Catenaccio |  |
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| Our Style Of Play on 19:51 - Jul 25 with 2780 views | union_jack |
| Our Style Of Play on 19:46 - Jul 25 by KeithHaynes |
I think playing a certain style trying to fit players in to roles is difficult.
I didn’t see any issues caused from the keeper playing out from the back last night. Fisher did it three times and Vigouroux did it when he could. It’s the way modern football is. |
I didn’t see all the game so I may have missed that but what I saw of Vigouroux was him kicking long (and accurately) to the flanks which is better than this centre half taking the goal kick, passing to the keeper who is then under pressure and so on.
I know we’ve been a club playing a ‘cultured’ style but sometimes I’d like to see us be a bit more ‘industrial’ in our approach. Get it in there, bish bash bosh😁.
And yes Rayns , the Spanish way was wonderful but do we have the standard if personnel against dyed in the wool championship defenders? [Post edited 25 Jul 19:53]
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| Our Style Of Play on 20:02 - Jul 25 with 2736 views | KeithHaynes |
| Our Style Of Play on 19:50 - Jul 25 by Swans9 |
You can only do that style with better players than the opposition. I don't think Fisher is as bad as most posters on here. But I agree with you our squad is super thin. They all had a go at Duff and I was at Plymouth where we played well second half. It not about style its about depth of squad and that is why we lost to Brentford in the play off final. Hope I wrong but I think our squad poor. Lack investment and relying on past transfers of the u21 squad. Which is partly to do with Burnie was bought for 110k from Bradford I think and d James was bought for 100k or more from hull. I know I be corrected we all want best scfc stid |
Whatever they cost the person who recruited them did well there, earned the club around forty million. | |
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| Our Style Of Play on 20:15 - Jul 25 with 2699 views | Swans9 |
That wasn't the point we haven't got the strength in depth now to play out from the back against better squads. We would love to have MC Burnie and d James in our u21 now but the investment in buying young players is not there | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 20:17 - Jul 25 with 2692 views | jack247 |
| Our Style Of Play on 19:51 - Jul 25 by union_jack |
I didn’t see all the game so I may have missed that but what I saw of Vigouroux was him kicking long (and accurately) to the flanks which is better than this centre half taking the goal kick, passing to the keeper who is then under pressure and so on.
I know we’ve been a club playing a ‘cultured’ style but sometimes I’d like to see us be a bit more ‘industrial’ in our approach. Get it in there, bish bash bosh😁.
And yes Rayns , the Spanish way was wonderful but do we have the standard if personnel against dyed in the wool championship defenders? [Post edited 25 Jul 19:53]
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We tried that last season and were spectacularly unsuccessful. I think it was our worst start since the early 90s. Results took an immediate upturn when Duff completely abandoned it after the Cardiff game.
I only saw the highlights of the Koln game and know what you mean. One of the goals was caused by overplaying it down our left and eventually getting turned over. That was a bit Martinesque.
Williams generally tries to get it forward and wide fairly quickly, but doesn’t do it at the expense of possession. He just tries to cut out the needless and dangerous passes as well as those that slow us down and allow opponents to get into defensive shape.
I don’t think we’ll see much lumping down the channels this season. | | | |
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| Our Style Of Play on 20:21 - Jul 25 with 2680 views | Dr_Winston |
There's nothing fundamentally wrong with playing out from the back. We've done it under every manager from Flynn onwards. Some managers have taken it to extremes, others have been happier to cycle the ball from defence to midfield somewhat quicker. Problems arise when you either do it far too much (Russy), or not well enough (Duff).
For us, we perfected the art when we had Williams and Flores at CB, with Leon and JdG in front of them. Both defenders were completely comfortable in possession, and both midfielders used space and time superbly. Things were never quite the same with Fernandez and Ki.
Anyway, I digress.
No problem playing out from the back as long as we don't do it stupidly and take unnecessary risks just for the sake of it. Finally having some pace in the side should make that a lot easier as we'll have a lot more options for the "out" ball. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Our Style Of Play on 21:16 - Jul 25 with 2621 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Our Style Of Play on 19:51 - Jul 25 by trampie |
Catenaccio |
Bless you |  |
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| Our Style Of Play on 07:38 - Jul 26 with 2411 views | onehunglow |
Dead right
We are not equipped to play as such
It should be obvious
We don’t have the skill
We need to be more pragmatic .
Nowt wrong with hoofingbthe ball clear
Harder to score from 50 yds than 5
We have committed Harri kari for too long
Yet,we carry it on.
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| Our Style Of Play on 07:46 - Jul 26 with 2388 views | jack247 |
| Our Style Of Play on 07:38 - Jul 26 by onehunglow |
Dead right
We are not equipped to play as such
It should be obvious
We don’t have the skill
We need to be more pragmatic .
Nowt wrong with hoofingbthe ball clear
Harder to score from 50 yds than 5
We have committed Harri kari for too long
Yet,we carry it on.
I |
It was one pre season friendly.
We haven’t played hari kari football since Russell Martin left. | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 07:50 - Jul 26 with 2380 views | heatwave |
There's playing out from the back with 30 passes that gets you as far as the halfway line with the keeper getting about 5-6 of those touches. That tends to happen when the opposition don't press aggressively.
Then there's playing out from the back when they do press aggressively which tends to be suicidal unless you have the standard of players who are of a quality to do it.
I know it's perceived to be the modern game but is it that entertaining when it's tried for the majority of the game? |  | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 08:21 - Jul 26 with 2345 views | onehunglow |
| Our Style Of Play on 07:46 - Jul 26 by jack247 |
It was one pre season friendly.
We haven’t played hari kari football since Russell Martin left. |
No.
We have played it well before that chap you mention | |
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| Our Style Of Play on 08:23 - Jul 26 with 2340 views | jack247 |
| Our Style Of Play on 08:21 - Jul 26 by onehunglow |
No.
We have played it well before that chap you mention |
I said we haven’t played it since | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 08:25 - Jul 26 with 2341 views | onehunglow |
| Our Style Of Play on 08:23 - Jul 26 by jack247 |
I said we haven’t played it since |
I’ve had a rough night  | |
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| Our Style Of Play on 08:25 - Jul 26 with 2341 views | RichardO |
Hi Union, I don't think of myself as tactically savvy and try to comment on what I see, same as most posters, who like yourself who have pointed out the issues we see as the problem with our team. Most of the comments I make have similarly been made by others.
Playing out from the back is fine as long as we are astute and quick enough to realise when teams are going to press us so we can exploit the spaces created in other areas of the pitch quickly.
Not over committing players to a crowd area of a pitch while we had possession leaving us open to counter attack.
Against Köln we were guilty for both goals of trying to play football in tight areas of the pitch.
The first passing out from the back, the ball should have been sent forward into the spaces that their press left | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 08:52 - Jul 26 with 2315 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
I’d rather be playing the nice pretty possession football in the opposition half, not on our own 6 yard line. | |
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| Our Style Of Play on 08:55 - Jul 26 with 2308 views | jack247 |
| Our Style Of Play on 08:52 - Jul 26 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
I’d rather be playing the nice pretty possession football in the opposition half, not on our own 6 yard line. |
That’s what we generally tried to do once we signed Ronald and the lad from Norwich.
It wasn’t always successful, but part of that is down to being a bit blunt up front. | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 08:56 - Jul 26 with 2311 views | Dr_Winston |
The concern I have, and I've not seen much to convince me otherwise so far, is that Williams is definitely a disciple of Martin when it comes to the general management of a defence. We will not achieve anything whilst leaking goals, no matter how entertaining or capable we may be going forward.
Defences have to be strong, well organised and take as few risks as possible. All three of which we failed almost completely at between 2021 & 2023, and didn't look particularly hot at from the start of this year either. Getting that right will go a big way towards deciding whether LW will be a success or not. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Our Style Of Play on 09:57 - Jul 26 with 2254 views | RichardO |
Hi Union, I don't think of myself as tactically savvy, I try to comment on what I see, same as most posters, who like yourself who have pointed out the issues we see as the problem with our team. Most of the comments I make have similarly been made by others.
Playing out from the back is fine as long as we are astute and quick enough to realise when teams are going to press us so we can exploit the spaces created in other areas of the pitch quickly.
Not over committing players to a crowded area of a pitch while we have possession leaving us open to counter attack.
Against Köln we were guilty for both goals of trying to play football in tight areas of the pitch.
The first was from passing out from the back, the ball should have been sent forward into the spaces that their press left, by getting the ball to a player his back to our goal he has a view of the whole pitch to choose from but instead he passes into a congested area?
The second was caused by taking too long on the ball and getting caught with the ball in a congested area, if the defenders have moved into a positions to offer themselves for a pass then they tend to be out of position defensively, was that the reason our defence was cut open?
At all times of a game you have to expect a quick press and act accordingly ensuring you are covered defensively, Martin seem to learn that too late and Cooper's teams ended up defending too deep towards the ends of games with clearances that didn't have an outlet up front.
Squad a bit thin didn't Martin found out late that with the same players, if you change things instead of using the same tactics all the time you can win games, not all the time but a variation on a theme can work.
Our team has to be adaptable to counter anything the opposition throws at us meaning the managers has to know what his players are capable of.
Maybe being thin on the ground might mean less margin of error when assessing players, in one minute gone the next, maybe player need more time to be assessed.in th first team.
Luke knows some of the players from his time with Martin here and the ups and down of his time here last year although given the number who have left and the number in, it will be a bit of struggle to gauge his team with new and young players to quickly fit in with which ever styles of play Williams adopts.
Nice having wingers putting balls into the opposition box but playing out from our box, if we get it out, we are not getting players up in support quick enough from deeper positions to create the numbers in the opposition box to take advantage of those crosses. Yates and Cullen have scored goals as the lone striker but they need support if you expect them to score more. Yates out on loan, is Cullen going to be able to be affective if he doesn't have more support and William's tactics cannot be adapted to suit if we have no alternatives. | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 14:49 - Jul 26 with 2119 views | jack247 |
| Our Style Of Play on 08:56 - Jul 26 by Dr_Winston |
The concern I have, and I've not seen much to convince me otherwise so far, is that Williams is definitely a disciple of Martin when it comes to the general management of a defence. We will not achieve anything whilst leaking goals, no matter how entertaining or capable we may be going forward.
Defences have to be strong, well organised and take as few risks as possible. All three of which we failed almost completely at between 2021 & 2023, and didn't look particularly hot at from the start of this year either. Getting that right will go a big way towards deciding whether LW will be a success or not. |
I just don’t see the first paragraph at all. We don’t defend, or more to the point play out from defence anything like we did under Martin.
We don’t launch it, but there are no one twos around hungry strikers or suicidal passing in our own box. We look to get it out of that area quickly and purposefully.
We don’t look particularly capable going forward, which is a big issue for me. Entertaining maybe, but toothless. 57 goals all season isn’t going to get you far. | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 16:15 - Jul 26 with 2081 views | onehunglow |
| Our Style Of Play on 14:49 - Jul 26 by jack247 |
I just don’t see the first paragraph at all. We don’t defend, or more to the point play out from defence anything like we did under Martin.
We don’t launch it, but there are no one twos around hungry strikers or suicidal passing in our own box. We look to get it out of that area quickly and purposefully.
We don’t look particularly capable going forward, which is a big issue for me. Entertaining maybe, but toothless. 57 goals all season isn’t going to get you far. |
I do 247
Clear signs of faffing about when a straightforward clearance wouod have removed danger
Our style was and is to retain the ball then lose it and gift dumbarse goals
60% possession and lose
Absolutely stupid
To me Williams is a clone of that chap you mention | |
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| Our Style Of Play on 16:27 - Jul 26 with 2072 views | jack247 |
| Our Style Of Play on 16:15 - Jul 26 by onehunglow |
I do 247
Clear signs of faffing about when a straightforward clearance wouod have removed danger
Our style was and is to retain the ball then lose it and gift dumbarse goals
60% possession and lose
Absolutely stupid
To me Williams is a clone of that chap you mention |
He doesn’t play anything like Russell Martin. If he hadn’t been on his staff, I doubt anybody would have linked the styles.
In fairness, no other manager, to my knowledge anyway, plays the way Martin played here. | | | |
| Our Style Of Play on 16:46 - Jul 26 with 2043 views | Dr_Winston |
| Our Style Of Play on 14:49 - Jul 26 by jack247 |
I just don’t see the first paragraph at all. We don’t defend, or more to the point play out from defence anything like we did under Martin.
We don’t launch it, but there are no one twos around hungry strikers or suicidal passing in our own box. We look to get it out of that area quickly and purposefully.
We don’t look particularly capable going forward, which is a big issue for me. Entertaining maybe, but toothless. 57 goals all season isn’t going to get you far. |
We looked defensively shaky as hell in a lot of games after he took over. Not as idiotically so as we did at times under RM, but still awfully naive on a regular basis. We didn't show any signs of trying to adapt our setup against teams at the top end of the division and got gubbed by basically all of them.
He needs to show a bit of pragmatism sometimes. Sticking with a certain way despite clear evidence that it doesn't work is exactly Martin. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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