| Ashes 2023 16:47 - Jun 8 with 101210 views | Hoopstar |
Ah the home Ashes series is almost upon us, my personal favourite sporting event (not down under, that's just generally depressing.) I need something big sporting wise to focus on and quit my worrying about QPR for a while.
Anyone going?
I was at the first day of the World Test Championship at the Oval yesterday. The Aussies looked in depressingly good nick with the bat and their pace attack appears as terrifying as ever.
I think it's going to be an exciting, tough, tense series that'll go down to the wire. I only managed to get tickets to the very final day of the Ashes on 31st July at the Oval, you never know.
I predict...
Crawley to average less than 20 with Duckett getting closer to mid 30s
Brook to really secure his position as an outstanding talent and mainstay of the team
Pope to struggle again~
Root, in what could be his last home Ashes, proving his worth again
Bairstow - haven't a clue which version turns up post broken foot
Broad - an Ashes too far? You'd be mad to write him or Jimmy off.
Robinson to nab Smith at least four times..
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| Ashes 2023 on 20:03 - Jul 31 with 1821 views | Sonofpugwash |
You can't write endings like that.Well done Broadey. |  |
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| Ashes 2023 on 23:01 - Jul 31 with 1642 views | numptydumpty |
Can't help thinking Jimmy should be hanging up his boots also.
Feeling Jimmy is on the down slope now and he has four years on Broad also but both Woakes and Wood have been brilliant last three tests.
Moeen possibly also last series. Big changes ahead. |  |
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| Ashes 2023 on 23:42 - Jul 31 with 1603 views | flynnbo |
| Ashes 2023 on 19:37 - Jul 31 by thame_hoops |
Now Alex Carey wont just be remembered for that run out, he’ll be remembered for being Broads last wicket |
And being caught by Bairstow-he’ll always be remembered for that too! |  | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 23:54 - Jul 31 with 1587 views | The_Beast1976 |
| Ashes 2023 on 20:03 - Jul 31 by Sonofpugwash |
You can't write endings like that.Well done Broadey. |
Was in Sri Lanka for his Test debut. In 2007. Was at The Oval today for his final Test appearance. Only seems like yesterday when he broke into three team. Incredible player. Such a shame he's now gone. Thanks for the memories |  | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 00:04 - Aug 1 with 1578 views | SydneyRs |
Australia know they've got away with one. They came to end "bazball" and failed.
Would have been an absolute travesty had they won the series, a series that could easily have been 4-1 England. Obviously the Old Trafford rain robbed us of a win and we threw away the first test. Also learned from it though and more controlled aggression saw us dominate most of the last 3 games.
I didn't think we'd have the bowling to compete, especially having to bring Moeen back from retirement, so was pleasantly surprised. Doesn't change the fact we need to find younger bowlers going forward. Fantastic send off for Broad and nice to see the Aussies give him a good reception too.
Has there ever been so many exciting test matches in such a short space of time as there's been since England's change of approach? Let's be honest, the majority of test matches are pretty dull and only for purists. England's games have been so entertaining and long may it continue. They genuinely play without fear.
Happy forthcoming silver jubilee Australia, will be 26 years since a series win in England by the time they return! | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 00:09 - Aug 1 with 1573 views | Nov77 |
Yup, if it hadn’t rained in Manchester, that win today would have made it 3-2, imagine the scenes. Would have been up there with 2005.
Six weeks of Bazball had made me forget about rangers and the horrors of Gazball to come. |  |
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| Ashes 2023 on 02:31 - Aug 1 with 1534 views | SydneyRs |
| Ashes 2023 on 19:37 - Jul 31 by thame_hoops |
Now Alex Carey wont just be remembered for that run out, he’ll be remembered for being Broads last wicket |
There was that little period a couple of games ago too when Bairstow made him look an idiot by pinching singles off a few deliveries than went through to him. No doubt Bairstow would have enjoyed that a lot.
As I've mentioned before you might hear some more honest assessments about that incident from the Aus players in the post career auto bio books. | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 09:46 - Aug 1 with 1418 views | BlackCrowe |
| Ashes 2023 on 19:24 - Jul 31 by stowmarketrange |
What a great day and a great test match.I thought it was all over when the heavens opened,but we stuck at it and what a brilliant way to end a career.
Now on the train home to watch the highlights on tv. |
Same...decamped to the Beehive for a few when the heavens open and then back in to watch the drama unfold. Had to then hot foot it up to the Hackney Empire to meet my daughter for a gig. It was a long long day. |  |
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| Ashes 2023 on 09:48 - Aug 1 with 1413 views | robith |
What a summer - from listening to the end of Edgbaston on TMS outside KIngs Cross station on my way home, being there at Headingly day 4, having a laugh as day 4 at the Oval was rained off and smashing through my cool box, one for the ages |  | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 13:14 - Aug 1 with 1319 views | Malintabuk |
Just got my ticket for the Oval vs NZ in September, a pre cursor for our WC clash... bet it will be warmer in India than the Oval on a September evening!!!!
Still a shame there is no international cricket in England, in August which for me is really bad ...
But the series will leave a lasting memory and look forward to India in the new year
With the Rs most likely struggling this year might be worth a trip over to see Baz ball | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 13:53 - Aug 1 with 1264 views | derbyhoop |
Was it the best Test series ever?
Quite possibly. I can'r remember a better one.
é evenly matched teams, so 2-2 was about right. Although England may well have won at Old Trafford, that would have changed the approaches at the Oval.
The downside is the retirement of Broad and the decline of Anderson. Robinson, Wood and Tongue coming through as replacements but unlikely to have the same quality or longevity. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Ashes 2023 on 14:49 - Aug 1 with 1214 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Ashes 2023 on 13:53 - Aug 1 by derbyhoop |
Was it the best Test series ever?
Quite possibly. I can'r remember a better one.
é evenly matched teams, so 2-2 was about right. Although England may well have won at Old Trafford, that would have changed the approaches at the Oval.
The downside is the retirement of Broad and the decline of Anderson. Robinson, Wood and Tongue coming through as replacements but unlikely to have the same quality or longevity. |
2005 was better, but nowhere near as free scoring IMO. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Ashes 2023 on 14:54 - Aug 1 with 1206 views | Nov77 |
yeah 2005 was better, player quality was higher, it was on free-to-air tv as well so the whole country was invested in it, and, we got the win after a long time losing to one of Ozs best ever teams. | |
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| Ashes 2023 on 15:01 - Aug 1 with 1185 views | MrSheen |
| Ashes 2023 on 14:54 - Aug 1 by Nov77 |
yeah 2005 was better, player quality was higher, it was on free-to-air tv as well so the whole country was invested in it, and, we got the win after a long time losing to one of Ozs best ever teams. |
Beating a team with Warne, McGrath, Ponting, Hayden, Langer and Gilchrist in it seems even more remarkable in hindsight. |  | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 15:12 - Aug 1 with 1176 views | robith |
| Ashes 2023 on 13:53 - Aug 1 by derbyhoop |
Was it the best Test series ever?
Quite possibly. I can'r remember a better one.
é evenly matched teams, so 2-2 was about right. Although England may well have won at Old Trafford, that would have changed the approaches at the Oval.
The downside is the retirement of Broad and the decline of Anderson. Robinson, Wood and Tongue coming through as replacements but unlikely to have the same quality or longevity. |
Coming through? Wood is 33 and Robinson is 29
Edit: press post by accident. In 4 years time I suspect the only players still in the squad will be Brook, Crawley, Tongue, Pope and maybe Duckett [Post edited 1 Aug 2023 15:14]
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| Ashes 2023 on 15:33 - Aug 1 with 1143 views | johnhoop |
| Ashes 2023 on 15:12 - Aug 1 by robith |
Coming through? Wood is 33 and Robinson is 29
Edit: press post by accident. In 4 years time I suspect the only players still in the squad will be Brook, Crawley, Tongue, Pope and maybe Duckett [Post edited 1 Aug 2023 15:14]
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Very true. I can’t help feeling that although it was a great series it was a missed opportunity to regain the Ashes because it was the high-water mark for this team.
As well as Broad and Ali retiring with Anderson not far off, Woakes is 34 and Wood 33 so probably none of the bowlers will be around when we next play Australia. Of the key batsmen, hopefully Root will stick around to break a few records but Bairstow is 33 and Stokes 32 and held together by glue and sticky-tape.
So, as Robith says, we’re going to have to find most of a new team in the next three or four years, the one consolation being that most of the Aussies’ best players are nearing the end of their careers as well. | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 15:51 - Aug 1 with 1126 views | qpr1976 |
| Ashes 2023 on 15:12 - Aug 1 by robith |
Coming through? Wood is 33 and Robinson is 29
Edit: press post by accident. In 4 years time I suspect the only players still in the squad will be Brook, Crawley, Tongue, Pope and maybe Duckett [Post edited 1 Aug 2023 15:14]
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England going forward…..
With 3/4 years difference in age, I’d wish Broad was continuing and Jimmy retiring. Wouldn’t rule out Stokes persuading Broad to come out of retirement to cover injuries like Ali for Leach…..
Jimmy shouldn’t be selected in India in Jan/Feb/Mar. Their pitches don’t suit him.
Nor should Woakes. Excellent on home turf, but doesn’t travel well.
Wood at 33 will not play back to back Tests, maybe share with Archer (if he ever plays 5 days again)
Robinson, Tongue, Potts, Curran (Sam) & maybe Overton going forward.
Foakes should be WK. He’s our best and as mentioned plays spin well. No issue with Bairstow being selected as a batsman (instead of Lawrence) and as WK backup for injury to Foakes.
Glad Crawley came good, but he and Duckett need to keep improving.
We desperately need a quality spinner. I expect Rehan Ahmed to travel with Leach & Root.
I still think Stokes made a mistake declaring on day 1 on Test 1 of an Ashes series. Root 118* & Robinson 30* seeing it like a beach ball on a great batting wickets with just 6 overs left (4 after the innings turnaround). Add 30+ runs over the psychological 400 mark, declare overnight.
Instead we let the Aussies off the hook and handed them a little momentum.
TBF Bairstows WK didn’t help the first 2 tests either. Nor going for a wander at Lords.
Anyway, it’s great to watch. Long may that continue….. | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 16:22 - Aug 1 with 1104 views | robith |
| Ashes 2023 on 15:51 - Aug 1 by qpr1976 |
England going forward…..
With 3/4 years difference in age, I’d wish Broad was continuing and Jimmy retiring. Wouldn’t rule out Stokes persuading Broad to come out of retirement to cover injuries like Ali for Leach…..
Jimmy shouldn’t be selected in India in Jan/Feb/Mar. Their pitches don’t suit him.
Nor should Woakes. Excellent on home turf, but doesn’t travel well.
Wood at 33 will not play back to back Tests, maybe share with Archer (if he ever plays 5 days again)
Robinson, Tongue, Potts, Curran (Sam) & maybe Overton going forward.
Foakes should be WK. He’s our best and as mentioned plays spin well. No issue with Bairstow being selected as a batsman (instead of Lawrence) and as WK backup for injury to Foakes.
Glad Crawley came good, but he and Duckett need to keep improving.
We desperately need a quality spinner. I expect Rehan Ahmed to travel with Leach & Root.
I still think Stokes made a mistake declaring on day 1 on Test 1 of an Ashes series. Root 118* & Robinson 30* seeing it like a beach ball on a great batting wickets with just 6 overs left (4 after the innings turnaround). Add 30+ runs over the psychological 400 mark, declare overnight.
Instead we let the Aussies off the hook and handed them a little momentum.
TBF Bairstows WK didn’t help the first 2 tests either. Nor going for a wander at Lords.
Anyway, it’s great to watch. Long may that continue….. |
Don't want to quote the whole post 1976, but Stokes' declaration wasn't why England lost. At the end of the game, England have lost by just 2 wickets, with I think about 27ish balls left in the match. They lost the first test because they dropped 6 catches, bodged a stumping and took a wicket off an egregious no ball.
Just my opinion, but throughout the series, people sought to provide systemic reasons for what I believe were just executional failings
Edit: don't want to quote it, so I....quoted it. Check out galaxy brain over here [Post edited 1 Aug 2023 16:25]
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| Ashes 2023 on 16:57 - Aug 1 with 1065 views | qpr1976 |
| Ashes 2023 on 16:22 - Aug 1 by robith |
Don't want to quote the whole post 1976, but Stokes' declaration wasn't why England lost. At the end of the game, England have lost by just 2 wickets, with I think about 27ish balls left in the match. They lost the first test because they dropped 6 catches, bodged a stumping and took a wicket off an egregious no ball.
Just my opinion, but throughout the series, people sought to provide systemic reasons for what I believe were just executional failings
Edit: don't want to quote it, so I....quoted it. Check out galaxy brain over here [Post edited 1 Aug 2023 16:25]
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I didn’t suggest the declaration lost us the test, but I felt it was a mistake and not worth it just giving them 4 overs to survive (they comfortably ended 14-0) the 6 overs would have beennbetter spent accruing more ‘easy’ runs. Some say if he hadn’t declared it would likely have ended in a draw (potentially giving us a series win ?), I don’t agree with that either. You can’t say for sure how day 5 will pan out near the end of day 1. Weather changes for a start. Cummins did brilliantly to steer them home with 2 wickets left, but If Aussies had needed 100+ at 8 down, not 72, they would have had to be more attacking, take more risks, etc.
I also did mention Bairstow’s mistakes, missed stumping and catches. So I agree, that was a major factor.
It’s just England should have won that Test, or at least not lost it. IMO.
England learnt throughout the series Full on Bazball would not succeed against the #1 Test nation. They had to temper it at times and go hard when the time was right (like the end of day 1)
My concern about Bazball and Stokes/McUllum constantly saying ‘No blame, were carry on regardless’ is that it gives players carte blanche to play wreckless shots or make poor decisions without any comeback or fear of consequences.
Apart from that, I Love it. And I’m already planning to see how we fair in 25/26 Ashes in person. | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 17:33 - Aug 1 with 1022 views | robith |
| Ashes 2023 on 16:57 - Aug 1 by qpr1976 |
I didn’t suggest the declaration lost us the test, but I felt it was a mistake and not worth it just giving them 4 overs to survive (they comfortably ended 14-0) the 6 overs would have beennbetter spent accruing more ‘easy’ runs. Some say if he hadn’t declared it would likely have ended in a draw (potentially giving us a series win ?), I don’t agree with that either. You can’t say for sure how day 5 will pan out near the end of day 1. Weather changes for a start. Cummins did brilliantly to steer them home with 2 wickets left, but If Aussies had needed 100+ at 8 down, not 72, they would have had to be more attacking, take more risks, etc.
I also did mention Bairstow’s mistakes, missed stumping and catches. So I agree, that was a major factor.
It’s just England should have won that Test, or at least not lost it. IMO.
England learnt throughout the series Full on Bazball would not succeed against the #1 Test nation. They had to temper it at times and go hard when the time was right (like the end of day 1)
My concern about Bazball and Stokes/McUllum constantly saying ‘No blame, were carry on regardless’ is that it gives players carte blanche to play wreckless shots or make poor decisions without any comeback or fear of consequences.
Apart from that, I Love it. And I’m already planning to see how we fair in 25/26 Ashes in person. |
Sorry champ, I wasn't meaning to comes across as digging you out personally, more using it as a jumping off point as I feel there's some outcome bias clouding the views. Putting them in for four overs is a good strategy, they just didn't execute it. The declaration is almost redundant when you drop so many chances and overstep massively when getting a guy out sub 50 who then makes 140+ | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 18:14 - Aug 1 with 2915 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Ashes 2023 on 17:33 - Aug 1 by robith |
Sorry champ, I wasn't meaning to comes across as digging you out personally, more using it as a jumping off point as I feel there's some outcome bias clouding the views. Putting them in for four overs is a good strategy, they just didn't execute it. The declaration is almost redundant when you drop so many chances and overstep massively when getting a guy out sub 50 who then makes 140+ |
Absolutely agree with this Robith.
See Barney Ronay's awful guff today about Woakes in the Guardian as another example.
The people who got hung up about Bazball and what it (supposedly) is were not the players, the captain or the coaches, but the media who got all in a tiz about it, and some supposedly bright commentators never seemed to quite get it. The same think England tempered their approach after the second test, which is a nonsense. The third and fifth tests could quite easily have gone the other way, as could the first and second. As you say, it was down to execution. |  |
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| Ashes 2023 on 09:56 - Aug 2 with 2764 views | robith |
| Ashes 2023 on 18:14 - Aug 1 by Antti_Heinola |
Absolutely agree with this Robith.
See Barney Ronay's awful guff today about Woakes in the Guardian as another example.
The people who got hung up about Bazball and what it (supposedly) is were not the players, the captain or the coaches, but the media who got all in a tiz about it, and some supposedly bright commentators never seemed to quite get it. The same think England tempered their approach after the second test, which is a nonsense. The third and fifth tests could quite easily have gone the other way, as could the first and second. As you say, it was down to execution. |
Well similarly everyone says England should've declared earlier in the 4th test, but what in the way the Aussies, Marnus especially, batted in the 3rd innings gave the indication England could've gotten them out sub 150 when they weren't allowed to bowl pace for most of it? | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 10:01 - Aug 2 with 2746 views | daveB |
| Ashes 2023 on 09:56 - Aug 2 by robith |
Well similarly everyone says England should've declared earlier in the 4th test, but what in the way the Aussies, Marnus especially, batted in the 3rd innings gave the indication England could've gotten them out sub 150 when they weren't allowed to bowl pace for most of it? |
if they had declared earlier they'd have needed to bat again which made winning the game impossible, only chance they had was get a 200+ lead and try and bowl them out quickly
I thought it was a really good series, shame we didn't get the decider at the Oval but every session felt big and went one way then the other. Not as good as 2005 imo but one of the best since then and possibly the last for a lot of these players. |  | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 15:26 - Aug 2 with 2645 views | MrSheen |
Academic exercise, but how many of the class of 2023 would have been good enough to break into their country's 2005 side? Not many I think...Smith for Clarke or Martyn, Cummins and perhaps Starc for Lee and perhaps Gillespie. For England, Root for Bell, Wood for Simon Jones and either Broad or Woakes perhaps for Hoggard. Ironically, Bairstow might have nudged ahead of Geraint Jones given both were iffy keepers in ahead of the competition for their batting. | | | |
| Ashes 2023 on 15:44 - Aug 2 with 2608 views | Nov77 |
| Ashes 2023 on 15:26 - Aug 2 by MrSheen |
Academic exercise, but how many of the class of 2023 would have been good enough to break into their country's 2005 side? Not many I think...Smith for Clarke or Martyn, Cummins and perhaps Starc for Lee and perhaps Gillespie. For England, Root for Bell, Wood for Simon Jones and either Broad or Woakes perhaps for Hoggard. Ironically, Bairstow might have nudged ahead of Geraint Jones given both were iffy keepers in ahead of the competition for their batting. |
I was pondering this same question yesterday. Bairstow would certainly give you more with the bat than Jones but I don’t remember his keeping being as bad Bairstow’s.
smith and root you’d have to find room for, but I’m not sure you could even find room for stokes
England 2005 vs England 2023 would be some game to watch. | |
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