| Naughton 19:44 - Dec 23 with 7465 views | SgorioFruit |
absolute garbage
painful to watch
You know before the game where the players do their warm up exercises? Can I suggest that Naughton practices throw ins for one hour solid before the game. |  |
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| Naughton on 00:56 - Dec 24 with 2203 views | jasper_T |
| Naughton on 00:42 - Dec 24 by jack247 |
We won’t get an upgrade on Naughton in the Championship. If we don’t get relegated we can’t afford to go down the ‘sink or swim’ route. I’m not sure we can if we do get relegated.
I’ve got nothing against any of our U23 players BTW. Just feel the environment they work in is counter productive. It’s all very well them winning their league and playing fantastic Swanselona football, but they are never going to be any use to the first team if they are thrust there directly from that, whichever league we are in next season. |
Worked out pretty well for Ben Davies. |  | | |
| Naughton on 01:03 - Dec 24 with 2186 views | jack247 |
| Naughton on 00:56 - Dec 24 by jasper_T |
Worked out pretty well for Ben Davies. |
Did he actually play for the under 23s then? I thought he broke through before that [Post edited 24 Dec 2017 1:03]
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| Naughton on 01:10 - Dec 24 with 2178 views | Rancid |
Ben Davies eh.Wasnt Taylor injured and Laudrup just plucked him from nowhere and into the first team and hes never looked back.The best Full Back in the League they are saying now.
Maybe our best success along with Joe Allen that our academy has ever brought through.Its been a while since though and these young Scots seem to be the way forward for us.It ain't working if that's our plan. |  | | |
| Naughton on 01:19 - Dec 24 with 2173 views | whiterock |
| Naughton on 01:10 - Dec 24 by Rancid |
Ben Davies eh.Wasnt Taylor injured and Laudrup just plucked him from nowhere and into the first team and hes never looked back.The best Full Back in the League they are saying now.
Maybe our best success along with Joe Allen that our academy has ever brought through.Its been a while since though and these young Scots seem to be the way forward for us.It ain't working if that's our plan. |
I know I’ll get criticise but I though Fulton was assured today | | | |
| Naughton on 01:28 - Dec 24 with 2159 views | Rancid |
| Naughton on 01:19 - Dec 24 by whiterock |
I know I’ll get criticise but I though Fulton was assured today |
Yeah me too.I think most did. | | | |
| Naughton on 02:33 - Dec 24 with 2131 views | jasper_T |
| Naughton on 01:03 - Dec 24 by jack247 |
Did he actually play for the under 23s then? I thought he broke through before that [Post edited 24 Dec 2017 1:03]
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Did Ben Davies have experience at a higher level than Connor Roberts, George Byers, Dan James etc. in your opinion?
Did the old u21s play a higher standard of competition than the current U23 PL2? | | | |
| Naughton on 02:45 - Dec 24 with 2125 views | jasper_T |
| Naughton on 01:10 - Dec 24 by Rancid |
Ben Davies eh.Wasnt Taylor injured and Laudrup just plucked him from nowhere and into the first team and hes never looked back.The best Full Back in the League they are saying now.
Maybe our best success along with Joe Allen that our academy has ever brought through.Its been a while since though and these young Scots seem to be the way forward for us.It ain't working if that's our plan. |
Laudrup had been watching the youth sides and had identified Ben Davies as a player with potential early on. He'd been on the bench and had come on for a few minutes once before Taylor's injury iirc. He wasn't a superstar in the u21s but it wasn't exactly out of nowhere either.
Josh Sheehan was another that Laudrup involved in the first team. That door closed once Monk came in (and injuries didn't help).
McBurnie is the only comparable young player to get first team appearances for us since then. Kingsley, Fulton and Mo Barrow all had a lot of senior appearances under their belts before we bought them. | | | |
| Naughton on 03:45 - Dec 24 with 2107 views | LeonWasGod |
| Naughton on 02:45 - Dec 24 by jasper_T |
Laudrup had been watching the youth sides and had identified Ben Davies as a player with potential early on. He'd been on the bench and had come on for a few minutes once before Taylor's injury iirc. He wasn't a superstar in the u21s but it wasn't exactly out of nowhere either.
Josh Sheehan was another that Laudrup involved in the first team. That door closed once Monk came in (and injuries didn't help).
McBurnie is the only comparable young player to get first team appearances for us since then. Kingsley, Fulton and Mo Barrow all had a lot of senior appearances under their belts before we bought them. |
And let's not forget that Ben looked like Bambi on ice as soon as he came in for Tayls. Very nervy for the first couple of games, but we had to stick with him. And good job we did, he learned very quickly and the rest of that season he was superb.
I wonder whether we'd give players the time to develop now? Mesa came in, made one mistake and was dropped. VDH comes in but is dropped as soon as Fed is back. Maybe they're not fair comparisons but Ben certainly benefited from having a good run in the team. |  | | |
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| Naughton on 05:22 - Dec 24 with 2098 views | Dr_Winston |
| Naughton on 03:45 - Dec 24 by LeonWasGod |
And let's not forget that Ben looked like Bambi on ice as soon as he came in for Tayls. Very nervy for the first couple of games, but we had to stick with him. And good job we did, he learned very quickly and the rest of that season he was superb.
I wonder whether we'd give players the time to develop now? Mesa came in, made one mistake and was dropped. VDH comes in but is dropped as soon as Fed is back. Maybe they're not fair comparisons but Ben certainly benefited from having a good run in the team. |
Your second paragraph is absolutely bang on.
Players play one game then drop out of the side. How are they expected to develop any kind of form on those grounds? The odd appearance in the u23's is no substitute for proper game time.
As well as the fact that when they do come in and play well they're often dropped straight back out again. VdH did very well in Fede's absence and should have kept his place. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Naughton on 07:50 - Dec 24 with 2063 views | jack247 |
| Naughton on 02:33 - Dec 24 by jasper_T |
Did Ben Davies have experience at a higher level than Connor Roberts, George Byers, Dan James etc. in your opinion?
Did the old u21s play a higher standard of competition than the current U23 PL2? |
He probably did yes, but quality wasn’t the point, intensity was. The old U21s was more of a reserve team and he’d have been up against squad players looking to make an impression and get back into their own teams. If he’d been playing in training paced matches where players like McBurnie look like Pele, who is to say Laudrup would have even promoted to the senior squad that summer.
Anyway, you asked me to answer Dungs points, I did and you have only challenged one part of one of my answers. Even then you eventually reverted to selling, replacing with better in the Championship and using an unproven youngster to cover both fullbacks. | | | |
| Naughton on 12:27 - Dec 24 with 2019 views | jasper_T |
| Naughton on 07:50 - Dec 24 by jack247 |
He probably did yes, but quality wasn’t the point, intensity was. The old U21s was more of a reserve team and he’d have been up against squad players looking to make an impression and get back into their own teams. If he’d been playing in training paced matches where players like McBurnie look like Pele, who is to say Laudrup would have even promoted to the senior squad that summer.
Anyway, you asked me to answer Dungs points, I did and you have only challenged one part of one of my answers. Even then you eventually reverted to selling, replacing with better in the Championship and using an unproven youngster to cover both fullbacks. |
Cobblers. The old u21s didn't play at a higher standard at all. | | | |
| Naughton on 12:36 - Dec 24 with 2013 views | jack247 |
| Naughton on 12:27 - Dec 24 by jasper_T |
Cobblers. The old u21s didn't play at a higher standard at all. |
Read again. Intensity, not standard. You’re an intelligent man, you must be able to see that playing in glorified training games is no preparation for Premier League or Championship football. It’s not fair on the players.
Anyway, Naughton doesn’t deserve half the abuse he gets, which is the more prevalent point. I don’t really care about the U23s and won’t until they have a system capable of grooming the odd player for the first team, whatever level we are at. | | | |
| Naughton on 12:47 - Dec 24 with 2006 views | jasper_T |
| Naughton on 12:36 - Dec 24 by jack247 |
Read again. Intensity, not standard. You’re an intelligent man, you must be able to see that playing in glorified training games is no preparation for Premier League or Championship football. It’s not fair on the players.
Anyway, Naughton doesn’t deserve half the abuse he gets, which is the more prevalent point. I don’t really care about the U23s and won’t until they have a system capable of grooming the odd player for the first team, whatever level we are at. |
The old u21s were just as low in intensity. There weren't 4 or 5 senior players alongside Ben Davies every week, busting a gut for 90 minutes trying to impress.
Reserve football is never going to be ideal preparation, but it's certainly not gone backwards here. | | | |
| Naughton on 12:52 - Dec 24 with 1998 views | jack247 |
| Naughton on 12:47 - Dec 24 by jasper_T |
The old u21s were just as low in intensity. There weren't 4 or 5 senior players alongside Ben Davies every week, busting a gut for 90 minutes trying to impress.
Reserve football is never going to be ideal preparation, but it's certainly not gone backwards here. |
We’ve pumped a lot of money into it and it’s producing players that struggle in lower league football. Appreciate Allen, Jazz and McDonald broke through before we were in the Premier league, but it doesn’t seem to produce players of that standard now, let alone Ben Davies.
As I’ve said enough times on this thread, this is a tangent. I’ve answered your post about Naughton, you haven’t disagreed with a lot of what I’ve said. | | | |
| Naughton on 13:40 - Dec 24 with 1965 views | whoflungdung |
Ben and naughtiness are like different gravies | |
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| Naughton on 15:49 - Dec 24 with 1922 views | jasper_T |
| Naughton on 12:52 - Dec 24 by jack247 |
We’ve pumped a lot of money into it and it’s producing players that struggle in lower league football. Appreciate Allen, Jazz and McDonald broke through before we were in the Premier league, but it doesn’t seem to produce players of that standard now, let alone Ben Davies.
As I’ve said enough times on this thread, this is a tangent. I’ve answered your post about Naughton, you haven’t disagreed with a lot of what I’ve said. |
Which of our recent academy players have struggled in lower league football? | | | |
| Naughton on 15:57 - Dec 24 with 1918 views | jasper_T |
I don't find that list of past success stories a particularly compelling argument against the current academy setup given that two of them would not get into our first team now let alone as young players, and three of them got their breaks when we were in lower divisions.
Only Ben Davies made the leap from the youth sides to the Premier League, and he only got the opportunity to develop due to a particularly forward thinking manager, and a freak long term injury in his specialist position.
The academy isn't a failure for not having produced several more Ben Davieses by now. | | | |
| Naughton on 16:00 - Dec 24 with 1912 views | jack247 |
| Naughton on 15:49 - Dec 24 by jasper_T |
Which of our recent academy players have struggled in lower league football? |
Connor Roberts couldn’t break into the Bristol Rovers team. Shrewsbury sent Dan James back, I think because of their loan quota. I’m not sure if Keston Davies is injured or not being picked. I think Kenji Gorre did ok at Northampton last season. | | | |
| Naughton on 17:07 - Dec 24 with 1860 views | jack247 |
| Naughton on 15:57 - Dec 24 by jasper_T |
I don't find that list of past success stories a particularly compelling argument against the current academy setup given that two of them would not get into our first team now let alone as young players, and three of them got their breaks when we were in lower divisions.
Only Ben Davies made the leap from the youth sides to the Premier League, and he only got the opportunity to develop due to a particularly forward thinking manager, and a freak long term injury in his specialist position.
The academy isn't a failure for not having produced several more Ben Davieses by now. |
It hasn’t produced any Shaun McDonalds, let alone Ben Davieses | | | |
| Naughton on 17:09 - Dec 24 with 1858 views | jacksfullaces |
looks like it will be rangel at liverpool so rest easy... | | | |
| Naughton on 17:17 - Dec 24 with 1847 views | jasper_T |
| Naughton on 16:00 - Dec 24 by jack247 |
Connor Roberts couldn’t break into the Bristol Rovers team. Shrewsbury sent Dan James back, I think because of their loan quota. I’m not sure if Keston Davies is injured or not being picked. I think Kenji Gorre did ok at Northampton last season. |
Kenji Gorre was a United academy player.
Roberts couldn't break into Rovers side because he was brought in as backup for a Dyche-like manager who plays a settled side and doesn't rotate. Rovers fans I spoke to at the time liked what they saw of him in the cups, chances were always going to be limited barring serious injury to senior players.
He's looked raw at Championship level this year from what I've seen. Better going forward than back certainly. But Boro have as much strength and definitely more depth at right back than we do (Christie, Shotton & Fabio). Two bad loan decisions if we were hoping he'd get the regular games he needs to develop.
Dan James could go either way. He's been suffering regularly injuries and knocks for quite a while (not unusual for pacey young players), and wasn't up to speed when he went to Shrewsbury, who flew out of the blocks in League One. Was clearly unfit in the Wales-Portugal u21 fixture just after the loan was terminated, and nowhere near his level last season. A hernia has held him back since.
I'd be chuffed to see them both on our bench in place of Routledge and Rangel.
Keston Davies was a makeweight player never expected to make much of a career and I'm delighted he got a chance at League football. Great attitude.
If Jazz Richards and Shaun McDonald count as successes of the old system we can add Ryan Hedges to the list for the new. We sold him for actual money and he's getting regular Championship games and a Wales cap this season. And Joe Rodon soon when the Bournemouth transfer goes through. | | | |
| Naughton on 17:22 - Dec 24 with 1839 views | jasper_T |
| Naughton on 17:07 - Dec 24 by jack247 |
It hasn’t produced any Shaun McDonalds, let alone Ben Davieses |
Shaun McDonald is a League One player with 3 career PL appearances to his name. We've got recent graduates playing at that level and higher. | | | |
| Naughton on 17:33 - Dec 24 with 1831 views | johnlangy |
I disagree. I think he's far better than most on here give him credit for.
That doesn't mean he's a world beater but then we haven't got any of them. | | | |
| Naughton on 18:24 - Dec 24 with 1804 views | max936 |
| Naughton on 19:54 - Dec 23 by Neath_Jack |
Naughton has been one of our better players this season.
Throw ins on the other hand are an absolute disgrace, which is not all his fault either. |
I thought he did just fine yesterday, nobody moves to get into positions to accept a throw in, they're all frightened of the responsibility. [Post edited 24 Dec 2017 18:46]
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| Naughton on 18:33 - Dec 24 with 1795 views | Rancid |
Agree.I've never seen a real problem with Naughton.
He'll never be the best RB in the league but he's decent enough and can hold his own.Id prefer a new LB if anything. | | | |
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