| Coming home to roost — Column on 23:01 - Oct 24 with 6139 views | zicoshoops |
I would usually say...........
What's going on?
We should be told
Sort it out.
But I can't....because...
You've just nailed it.........beautifully. |  | |  |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 23:10 - Oct 24 with 6100 views | Brightonhoop |
Brilliant piece Clive. Nailed it. It was Tune's to screw up twice and they did. The bill is all thiers. Getting dumped out of the Prem once was careless, twice was fcking stoopid. Dont really want to mention £10 Mil for Sandro again but, oh ffs I just did oops, how careless.
I still have nightmares about Rangers 3rd keeper being Brazils national treasure.... [Post edited 25 Oct 2017 0:47]
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| Coming home to roost — Column on 23:23 - Oct 24 with 6057 views | PunteR |
Bang on.
"It was Fernandes’, and Tune’s, strategy, and always has been. "
"The buck stops with them, and so should the fine." |  |
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| Coming home to roost — Column on 23:25 - Oct 24 with 6053 views | daveB |
The whole culture of the club was changed when Paladini first came in, it got worse under Flavio then went to hell when Mark Hughes came in. If Redknapp had gone that summer we went down I think Fernandes would have brought in a similar style of manager, an Allardyce or Pullis and the outcome in what we spent would have been similar.
Ferdinand and Hoos have finally changed that culture to a more workable model and I really hope people start to get behind them now |  | | |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 00:43 - Oct 25 with 5949 views | Boston |
When I read the OP I naturally assumed this would be a piece concerning Blackburn, it sort of was. | |
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| Coming home to roost — Column on 00:55 - Oct 25 with 5927 views | Noelmc |
Spot on analysis Clive.
Is there any significance that it was an arbitration ruling rather than a court ruling? Normally with arbitration the parties involved agree in advance to abide by the ruling. Does this affect our rights and/or grounds of appeal? |  | | |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 01:02 - Oct 25 with 5923 views | Boston |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 00:55 - Oct 25 by Noelmc |
Spot on analysis Clive.
Is there any significance that it was an arbitration ruling rather than a court ruling? Normally with arbitration the parties involved agree in advance to abide by the ruling. Does this affect our rights and/or grounds of appeal? |
The significance is no-ones going down for this....except QPR, by about three divisions if we're not careful. | |
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| Coming home to roost — Column on 07:26 - Oct 25 with 5726 views | TonyHongKong |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 00:55 - Oct 25 by Noelmc |
Spot on analysis Clive.
Is there any significance that it was an arbitration ruling rather than a court ruling? Normally with arbitration the parties involved agree in advance to abide by the ruling. Does this affect our rights and/or grounds of appeal? |
Most parties usually accept an arbitration ruling, that's correct. | |
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| Coming home to roost — Column on 08:06 - Oct 25 with 5663 views | Northernr |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 00:55 - Oct 25 by Noelmc |
Spot on analysis Clive.
Is there any significance that it was an arbitration ruling rather than a court ruling? Normally with arbitration the parties involved agree in advance to abide by the ruling. Does this affect our rights and/or grounds of appeal? |
It's a good question that I don't know the answer to. I was under the impression we'd agreed to a binding arbitration. |  | | |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 08:20 - Oct 25 with 5637 views | Phildo |
...also for an appeal proportionality is a tough one to argue on an appeal. Its is a bit of an alien concept in UK law - more common in Napoleonic legal systems but has begun to appear in some UK reasoning as a result of ECJ judgements. Possibly an appeal on these grounds was reserved in the agreement to arbitrate but overall I would expect the confidential advice the club has is not too optimistic. |  | | |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 08:20 - Oct 25 with 5637 views | rbsranger |
As always another great article Clive.
Without meaning to slaughter some sacred cows here (and without taking any blame away from TF and Tune/ Air Asia) I do think that our sliding doors moment came before Hughes came here.... If only Warnock had told the newly appointed chairman on August 31 to put his chequebook away, none of this would have happened. It was after all Warnock that bought Barton, SWP and A Ferdinand that day and created the 2 different classes in the dressing room with those idiots on significantly more money than the team that had taken us up to the PL in the first place. Now had we stood still that day I assume that there is a better than even chance we would have gone down that year, but we might have gone down with team spirit and we would have been able to pocket the parachute payments in order to make a better fist of it the second time around. Don't forget that it was good ol' Joey who helped get Warnock sacked by undermining him in the dressing room and his wages that created the class difference in what was a great bunch.
What a mess |  | | |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 08:33 - Oct 25 with 5592 views | Northernr |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 08:20 - Oct 25 by rbsranger |
As always another great article Clive.
Without meaning to slaughter some sacred cows here (and without taking any blame away from TF and Tune/ Air Asia) I do think that our sliding doors moment came before Hughes came here.... If only Warnock had told the newly appointed chairman on August 31 to put his chequebook away, none of this would have happened. It was after all Warnock that bought Barton, SWP and A Ferdinand that day and created the 2 different classes in the dressing room with those idiots on significantly more money than the team that had taken us up to the PL in the first place. Now had we stood still that day I assume that there is a better than even chance we would have gone down that year, but we might have gone down with team spirit and we would have been able to pocket the parachute payments in order to make a better fist of it the second time around. Don't forget that it was good ol' Joey who helped get Warnock sacked by undermining him in the dressing room and his wages that created the class difference in what was a great bunch.
What a mess |
Yeh fair point, does add more to the 'it all comes back to TF' argument. | | | |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 09:06 - Oct 25 with 5520 views | TheChef |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 08:33 - Oct 25 by Northernr |
Yeh fair point, does add more to the 'it all comes back to TF' argument. |
Yep - if only Fernandes had taken over the club in September!! |  |
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| Coming home to roost — Column on 10:12 - Oct 25 with 5366 views | stevec |
As been said, TF agreed to arbitration so TF needs to honour the decision.
If we carry this on the FL are just going to harden their stance now they're in the box seat. They may be willing to be a bit more generous if the owners stop taking the piss. |  | | |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 10:32 - Oct 25 with 5326 views | qprichard |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 08:06 - Oct 25 by Northernr |
It's a good question that I don't know the answer to. I was under the impression we'd agreed to a binding arbitration. |
My understanding is while we agreed to be bound by the arbitration, this only applied to the judgement not the punishment which if any would decided by the football league.
If my memory is correct we agreed to arbitration provided the punishment did not involve a points deduction. On reflection maybe not the best move. | | | |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 10:50 - Oct 25 with 5282 views | EastR |
Good article Clive.
Completely agree with your setting out of the culprits in this whole miserable affair, but it’s worth highlighting something else that can’t be overlooked, and is a huge contributing factor in getting us here.
The takeover of the club was done against the backdrop of a property deal. The owners gambled on being a major player in the development at OOC. That was the motivation and the strategy.
They wanted a PL league club to front that (the Air Asia Arena), and the signing of Park was only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the exposure planned with the club at the centre of a leisure and residential complex in the most expensive part of the city, in the one of the most expensive property markets in the world.
That why they’ve persevered with £250m+ of losses and if OOC had gone to plan so far without hesitation would suck up another £50m of a fine to not sink that deal.
But we are at a crossroads with that. They must be close to the point where the viability and the returns on the planned development versus the cost of securing it are diminishing. That’s why they’ve changed course finally (quite rightly) and the clubs finances are being managed in a more responsible way.
With or without FFP, isn’t that what we should be doing anyway? As you point out, other similar sized clubs have managed it and established themselves in the top tier.
Fernandes and the other investors must be kicking themselves for their reckless approach (note how the Mittals gradually withdrew and reduced their investment early on when things were going pear shaped). In any business sense it has been a disaster.
The worry for me is that this drags on, the property deal gets less attractive and they finally walk away lumbering us with the legacy.
It’s happened on Fernandes watch, and he needs to sort it out. | |
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| Coming home to roost — Column on 10:52 - Oct 25 with 5273 views | Northernr |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 10:50 - Oct 25 by EastR |
Good article Clive.
Completely agree with your setting out of the culprits in this whole miserable affair, but it’s worth highlighting something else that can’t be overlooked, and is a huge contributing factor in getting us here.
The takeover of the club was done against the backdrop of a property deal. The owners gambled on being a major player in the development at OOC. That was the motivation and the strategy.
They wanted a PL league club to front that (the Air Asia Arena), and the signing of Park was only the tip of the iceberg in terms of the exposure planned with the club at the centre of a leisure and residential complex in the most expensive part of the city, in the one of the most expensive property markets in the world.
That why they’ve persevered with £250m+ of losses and if OOC had gone to plan so far without hesitation would suck up another £50m of a fine to not sink that deal.
But we are at a crossroads with that. They must be close to the point where the viability and the returns on the planned development versus the cost of securing it are diminishing. That’s why they’ve changed course finally (quite rightly) and the clubs finances are being managed in a more responsible way.
With or without FFP, isn’t that what we should be doing anyway? As you point out, other similar sized clubs have managed it and established themselves in the top tier.
Fernandes and the other investors must be kicking themselves for their reckless approach (note how the Mittals gradually withdrew and reduced their investment early on when things were going pear shaped). In any business sense it has been a disaster.
The worry for me is that this drags on, the property deal gets less attractive and they finally walk away lumbering us with the legacy.
It’s happened on Fernandes watch, and he needs to sort it out. |
Very good point. | | | |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 12:02 - Oct 25 with 5154 views | Wren67 |
I am really pleased to have found this site and to be kept informed and up to date with your excellent submissions, your reviews and reports of matches. I am particularly pleased with this article because I didn't really understand FFP and it's implications for QPR so thank you.
I think our Club and team needs our support now more than ever and I will be at Loftus Road on Saturday and on Tuesday night to lend my support.
Rsssssss for life. | | | |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 13:03 - Oct 25 with 5028 views | terryb |
Thanks Clive, a very good column which lays out the situastion as it is.
I do have one tiny quibble though!
At the time of the appointment of Redknapp, I argued that we were near certainities for relegation & that the club should have accepted this.
Thus, a manager should have been employed that was willing to not spend millions in the January & plan for the following season in the Championship, including how to deal with FFP.
However, the club chose the route that it took & there was only one possible outcome. I don't think I've ever known a more blatant abuse of rules than we managed that season!
The culpability is completely with our owners. | | | |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 13:42 - Oct 25 with 4929 views | derbyhoop |
Given our current circumstances, and the steps we have taken over the last 2 years, the suggested penalty is totally disproportionate.
However, the fine was not levied under the current rules but the preceding ones. If I understand correctly, the arbitration panel consisted of 3 QCs, who would be more than capable of making a legal assessment as to it's validity.
As Clive pointed out, QPR were in FLAGRANT breach of the regulations applicable at the time. It is now pointless blaming previous managers, their associates, the previous CEO and the owners. They were all culpable.
A fine of the size proposed would bankrupt a club that only has a turnover of around £25m (my guess) and falling rapidly as parachute payments come to an end. I cannot believe the FL would want that outcome however much they want to uphold the integrity of the competition, especially when other clubs were punished under the rules at the time.
I suspect there will be a further drawn out legal battle, before both parties settle for a more realistic figure, which could even be suspended in whole or part. |  |
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Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Coming home to roost — Column on 13:46 - Oct 25 with 4910 views | Northernr |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 13:03 - Oct 25 by terryb |
Thanks Clive, a very good column which lays out the situastion as it is.
I do have one tiny quibble though!
At the time of the appointment of Redknapp, I argued that we were near certainities for relegation & that the club should have accepted this.
Thus, a manager should have been employed that was willing to not spend millions in the January & plan for the following season in the Championship, including how to deal with FFP.
However, the club chose the route that it took & there was only one possible outcome. I don't think I've ever known a more blatant abuse of rules than we managed that season!
The culpability is completely with our owners. |
Mate I agree with you in hindsght but at the time I thought the idea of getting Redknapp in to try and scrape out of it was a reasonable idea so I can't very well sit here now and say 'idiots shouldn't have done that'.
He should never have been kept on for the following year though. | | | |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 13:47 - Oct 25 with 4904 views | TGRRRSSS |
Superb article Clive
If this goes through though I fear for our future I really do. |  | | |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 13:50 - Oct 25 with 4900 views | Northernr |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 13:47 - Oct 25 by TGRRRSSS |
Superb article Clive
If this goes through though I fear for our future I really do. |
Well QPR are never going to have the sort of money being talked about here so options going forward are:
- TF and Tune pay it now.
- TF and Tune pay it later
- TF and Tune fight it, get a bit knocked off, and pay it.
- TF and Tune refuse to pay it and we get kicked out of the league
- TF and Tune refuse to pay it and put the club into administration | | | |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 13:51 - Oct 25 with 4893 views | TGRRRSSS |
TF and Tune have previous don't they? F1 and Caterham...
I think them putting it into admin and walking away is plaisible now with the ground looking as far away as ever and the sheer competance needed from TF to even pull it off, things look decidedly grim. | | | |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 14:03 - Oct 25 with 4856 views | Northernr |
| Coming home to roost — Column on 13:51 - Oct 25 by TGRRRSSS |
TF and Tune have previous don't they? F1 and Caterham...
I think them putting it into admin and walking away is plaisible now with the ground looking as far away as ever and the sheer competance needed from TF to even pull it off, things look decidedly grim. |
He'll have another vineyard by the end of this. | | | |
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