| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion 11:01 - Oct 1 with 5659 views | jacksinceever |
Has anyone have a realistic cost of buying land, building a new purpose built stadium and putting in all the necessary infrastructure (from which Swans would then gain 100% of all profit from attendances, catering, car parking etc), as opposed to the cost of extending a stadium they will (as things stand) never own, have limited potential to expand or improve and pay out a large part of income to third parties (including companies piggybacking on the club's success by charging for parking, etc from which the club sees not a red cent) |  | | |  |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 01:26 - Oct 2 with 1193 views | jazzswan |
Stadium would cost £27 Million to buy from the Council |  | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 03:48 - Oct 2 with 1175 views | dameedna |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 12:47 - Oct 1 by jacksinceever |
It just seems crazy to me. it's like living in social housing or paying a rip-off landlord when you got a wad in the bank and could buy your own house outright.
Owning your stadium and growing the club are not mutually exclusive (in fact the stadium is an asset that can raise capital at a later date if needed) |
SCFC is not a specialised real estate asset manager, investor, facility manager or ticket administrator. The club might be able to do tickets for a bigger fee but that's about the limit of it's professional capability. We would be better off concentrating on improving the squad, recruitment, training facilities, merchandise, marketing and ownership stability. |  | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 05:33 - Oct 2 with 1165 views | MyFinalHeaven |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 01:26 - Oct 2 by jazzswan |
Stadium would cost £27 Million to buy from the Council |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Stadium
£27m is the cost it took to build the stadium, but I doubt the Council would let it go for that little. |  |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 06:34 - Oct 2 with 1147 views | Dr_Winston |
There's not exactly a line forming to buy the place, so I wouldn't be so sure.
They're talking about selling the County Hall, so an offer in that region for a stadium of no use to anyone else and no profit to the council would probably be considered. |  |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 07:41 - Oct 2 with 1127 views | Uxbridge |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 06:34 - Oct 2 by Dr_Winston |
There's not exactly a line forming to buy the place, so I wouldn't be so sure.
They're talking about selling the County Hall, so an offer in that region for a stadium of no use to anyone else and no profit to the council would probably be considered. |
I strongly suspect the stadium could be bought or leased for considerably less than the build cost. |  |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 08:27 - Oct 2 with 1090 views | Le_Swans |
How much did the council actually put into the build of the new stadium? Weren't there all kinds of grants / funds that help pay for it?
Surely the council would just want to recoup the money they put in? | | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 09:55 - Oct 2 with 1043 views | Catullus |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 18:16 - Oct 1 by Dewi1jack |
Got to agree with Ux again.
Since we moved from our old, beautifully ugly home, there have been a small minority of us advocating buying White Rock.
We've always been shouted down by people with a limited vision of the future. Maybe at the times we've said it, it wasn't right for the club.
Now the council are skint and I see no reason that any bank would refuse a mortgage, it is an ideal time to buy.
Who in their right mind, would spend thousands, let alone millions, building an extension on a home they rent?
Besides, the stadium would become an excellent asset, should (hopefully never, but never say never) the club ever need to raise finance. Could also mean getting a better interest rate on a short-term loan; all businesses can suffer cash-flow problems after all.
And we're no exception. |
Take out a mortgage? Seriously? have you any idea how much that would cost? And we'd need a fixed rate or any rise could be catastrophic.
Besides, not owning the stadium has it's advantages. It protects us from a takeover being the biggest advantage.
And, what is the problem in investing in the stadium, not owning it is no reason. After all, the council will never kick us out. What would they do with it? The Ospreys don't fill it, can't afford it by themselves.
And the idea about possibly raising funds against the stadium is a non starter to me. If that day ever comes, we are in trouble.
The way the club is currently run defends against cash flow problems, even if we go down we are not as susceptible as most other clubs. | |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 11:01 - Oct 2 with 1008 views | raynor94 |
Look what it has cost arsenal, wenger has already warned spurs, and these two are massive compared to us, madness to even think of building a new stadium, expanding the liberty is the only way to go |  |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 14:52 - Oct 2 with 954 views | llareggub |
we went into this agreement with the stadium with our eyes open and have had ten years of success it could of gone the other way it could so easily be the ospreys keeping us afloat as far as im concerned we are indebted to the ospreys and the council we are in this together besides from what i have heard for many of the last ten years we havent paid a penny to the council ..........there are so many aspiring venture capitalists an budding richard branson's in tinternet land its laughable  | | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 16:19 - Oct 2 with 929 views | tomdickharry |
An owned stadium is far from an excellent asset,if the Swans wasted money buying the Liberty doubt if any financial institution would lend substantive sums against it.Present arrangements are fine and hopefully as we develop even more in years to come capacity will increase accordingly.
The latest accounts when they are published will make interesting reading in respect of total Salaries/Wages paid to Football Employees,if as I suspect the sum is even as low as 10% more than the previous set then no wonder Jenkins and the board are on the look out for new investment.To sum up - there will be no purchase of of the Liberty by the present board,no new Stadium Built,limited capacity expansion in short/medium term. | | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 18:04 - Oct 2 with 888 views | johnlangy |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 14:52 - Oct 2 by llareggub |
we went into this agreement with the stadium with our eyes open and have had ten years of success it could of gone the other way it could so easily be the ospreys keeping us afloat as far as im concerned we are indebted to the ospreys and the council we are in this together besides from what i have heard for many of the last ten years we havent paid a penny to the council ..........there are so many aspiring venture capitalists an budding richard branson's in tinternet land its laughable |
Haven't paid a penny to the council ? The rent may be small but we pay around £1 m a year from our gate receipts. Not trivial. | | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 09:22 - Oct 3 with 842 views | Catullus |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 18:04 - Oct 2 by johnlangy |
Haven't paid a penny to the council ? The rent may be small but we pay around £1 m a year from our gate receipts. Not trivial. |
I think we pay that money to Stadco. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere (possibly on here) that until recently the council has had very little return from stadco/us? | |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 09:33 - Oct 3 with 837 views | Uxbridge |
Why would we pay money to the council? The stadium is run as a not-for-profit. We pay the vast majority of costs relating to the running and maintenance of the stadium. Reckon anyone else is chipping in for the big screens and those horrid floodlights? | |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 09:49 - Oct 3 with 817 views | johnlangy |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 09:22 - Oct 3 by Catullus |
I think we pay that money to Stadco. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere (possibly on here) that until recently the council has had very little return from stadco/us? |
You're correct. But the post I replied to could be seen to imply that the Swans aren't paying their way. The rent, I believe, is not a huge amount but the £1 m (or more) of gate receipts that we pay to Stadco is around 6 times the amount the Ospreys pay.
I was just making the point that the Swans are paying their dues in that way rather than what they pay to the Council. | | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 10:05 - Oct 3 with 795 views | builthjack |
How about coming to an agreement with the council of paying say 30 million, but doing it over about 7 years or so, about 4.3 million a year. Charge the Ospreys 500k a year, do a few big concerts etc, make money from our own bars, get some proper food outlets going, make better use of the stadium, and it would mostly pay for itself. |  |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 11:02 - Oct 3 with 767 views | perchrockjack |
They weren't expecting us to stay in PL
It seems they re still not | |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 11:06 - Oct 3 with 764 views | Darran |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 10:05 - Oct 3 by builthjack |
How about coming to an agreement with the council of paying say 30 million, but doing it over about 7 years or so, about 4.3 million a year. Charge the Ospreys 500k a year, do a few big concerts etc, make money from our own bars, get some proper food outlets going, make better use of the stadium, and it would mostly pay for itself. |
You're talking sense it'll never work. |  |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 12:01 - Oct 3 with 737 views | JJJack |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 10:05 - Oct 3 by builthjack |
How about coming to an agreement with the council of paying say 30 million, but doing it over about 7 years or so, about 4.3 million a year. Charge the Ospreys 500k a year, do a few big concerts etc, make money from our own bars, get some proper food outlets going, make better use of the stadium, and it would mostly pay for itself. |
Mate, as has been said above, there is no need/point . Ok, so we currently have to chuck a few quid over from catering. Whoopy do....peanuts. As we pointed out to CCFC when they were near bankruptcy and trying to value their stadium at £50m.....it ain't worth a fraction of that. Who the hell wants to buy an empty stadium?? Of course the land is of value but demolition would cost money. We are fine as we are...absolutely NO WAY should we even attempt to buy the thing for the minimal returns we could get. |  | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 12:29 - Oct 3 with 724 views | jacksinceever |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 12:01 - Oct 3 by JJJack |
Mate, as has been said above, there is no need/point . Ok, so we currently have to chuck a few quid over from catering. Whoopy do....peanuts. As we pointed out to CCFC when they were near bankruptcy and trying to value their stadium at £50m.....it ain't worth a fraction of that. Who the hell wants to buy an empty stadium?? Of course the land is of value but demolition would cost money. We are fine as we are...absolutely NO WAY should we even attempt to buy the thing for the minimal returns we could get. |
As your online now, please answer my reply to your post a few days ago:
JJ, I'm not sure which way you are coming at this from, but just to be clear I am not against social housing or rent privately for those who need to.
My parents did it, my wife's parents did it, most of my family did it at one time or another.
I would have done but I was fortunate enough to be able to raise a deposit and pay for my home.
It just eats away at me that my parents (and many like them) paid over 35 years probably about ten times what their house would have cost them, if they could have only afforded the mortgage at the time. That was different times.
I cannot see the club's landlords being overly helpful if we were to fall on hard times again ("What did you waste all those millions on Mr Jenkins or whoever?") and our only assets are the players who's value can change by the day
I see the argument that a stadium ownership would make us more attractive to asset strippers, but currently should we fall from grace it's possible we'd have no assets to strip | | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 13:29 - Oct 3 with 697 views | trampie |
The up keep can be astronomical of owning your own stadium, spoke to a fan years ago that was involved with the trust when the Swans were in difficulties and he was delighted that we don't own our new ground, subsequently I have read stories about the Scarlets ground and the pros and the cons, although I was brought up to buy my own home, a sports ground is not a house, owning a stadium can be a huge financial millstone around a teams neck, a lot of large successful football and rugby teams in Europe play on a municipal ground. |  |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 13:36 - Oct 3 with 689 views | LeonisGod |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 08:27 - Oct 2 by Le_Swans |
How much did the council actually put into the build of the new stadium? Weren't there all kinds of grants / funds that help pay for it?
Surely the council would just want to recoup the money they put in? |
Not sure if correct or not, but these figures are from a presentation on the build:
£000s
Sale of site plus interest 28,390
Sportslot Grant 3,000
Football Foundation Grant 2,500
Sponsorship 800
ƒƒCouncil Funds 3,949
TOTAL 39,168
Some other interesting stuff in here about how it was built. http://www.constructingexcellence.org.uk/pdf/Wales/061024_Interserve.pdf |  | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 13:41 - Oct 3 with 682 views | Tom1912 |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 12:47 - Oct 1 by jacksinceever |
It just seems crazy to me. it's like living in social housing or paying a rip-off landlord when you got a wad in the bank and could buy your own house outright.
Owning your stadium and growing the club are not mutually exclusive (in fact the stadium is an asset that can raise capital at a later date if needed) |
Its not like this at all though. We don't have a wad in the bank and the landlord isn't a rip off-far from it in fact. When we are getting the rent so cheaply it makes sense to maintain the current arrangement. | | | |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 13:55 - Oct 3 with 663 views | Dewi1jack |
| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 10:05 - Oct 3 by builthjack |
How about coming to an agreement with the council of paying say 30 million, but doing it over about 7 years or so, about 4.3 million a year. Charge the Ospreys 500k a year, do a few big concerts etc, make money from our own bars, get some proper food outlets going, make better use of the stadium, and it would mostly pay for itself. |
Makes sense, but as Daz says, you can't use sensible logic on here or with Swansea Council.
It doesn't work and may even be breaking the rules!! |  |
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| Cost of Building a new Stadium v Expansion on 14:13 - Oct 3 with 647 views | glynthomas |
Perhaps its not to build a new staduim that is required but buy the land opposite where the industrial units are,build a multi storey car park,to take all the extra cars etc when they expand,build a an indoor arena for two football pitches and other sports that are lacking indoor facities,turn the area into sports village as such and have a link up with both universities in the city.
I seems legacy is the name which is a feeling you get off the board nowadays. | | | |
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