| Some realities? Measuring Success 12:59 - Mar 27 with 6248 views | jacksfullaces |
The last few weeks has been a real eye opener for me in terms of re-evaluating what supporting the Swans is all about, but I think needs a bit og grounded thought.
Like many others I want my team to succeed, but am beginning to question how we measure success. For many it appears to be a winning side who plays good football, although the emphasis over a period of time is on the former. This begs the question that long term can we actually sustain the expectations of our fan base in the Premier League? As with the best will in the world it is unlikely we are going to be challenging for honours on a regular basis, and mid table safety likely to be as good as it gets. This leads to problem number 1 for many - people lose interest if we are not on an upward trajectory. (points/tables/trophies wise)
Which leads to a second point in relation to stadium expansion and attracting new fans. One of the upside of the PL is also a downside in media exposure. A team like Swansea will generally be battling to get to mid table, and that is often not a particularly attractive product to bring on new fans. In fact one can argue that attendances both home and away this year have dropped already, so a groundswell of new support is not necessarily in the offing. Appreciate more community stuff can be done but wouldn't expect this to necessarily create huge numbers.
Strangely as I write this I can therefore see some of the issues the board are having to deal with, and whilst I was as annoyed as the next person as to the almost personal vendetta that seemed to be developing betweeen Jenkins/Laudrup, I can also see that maybe they accept some of these practicalities and have to make on the face of it disappointing decisions relating to stadium expansion and player purchases. So i go back to the first questions, measuring success? jenkins et al clearly do so on football values and possibly even community values, whereas many others are doing so in terms of success, player purchases, ground size.
Is it time for people to re-evaluate how they measure success/progress if they are to continue to enjoy watching their club. I think I might have to, it doesn't mean wanting to be relegated, it robably means enjoying the moment, and accepting that even with progress we probably will be relegated at some point. For that benchmark to change, I'd be interested in some reasonable views as to what would need to happen. |  | | |  |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 13:01 - Mar 27 with 4881 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
Community values? A few years ago I would agree. These days, not so much. |  |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 14:08 - Mar 27 with 4785 views | scottishjack |
The past few years have been nothing short of amazing, and in a way I think Huw Jenkins and the board have become a victim of that success if you know what I mean?
For example, the core of our support would probably have not expected to reach the Premier league, and I would imagine that most of us would have been quite impressed that we reached the championship. If we had stayed there and competed, that would have been an achievement from where we were when our current board took the reigns. Somehow though, we exceeded that and made it to the Premier League! And this is where the expectations went through the roof.
The best way I can explain is this, I started watching the Swans on their slide down the divisions in the 80's, I still loved the few highs and many lows, so I am making the most of our time in the top division, but my expectations are tempered by the reality that I have seen in the past and if we drop down, then so be it. On the other hand, my lad started coming with me regularly when we moved to the Liberty, all he has seen is things getting better and better, he really hasn't experienced bad times, and no matter how many times I try to explain to him, I do worry about his reaction if we truly had a couple of bad seasons. |  | | |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 14:12 - Mar 27 with 4775 views | Darran |
Why does everyone forget about the two new training complexes that have just about been delivered? |  |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 14:17 - Mar 27 with 4765 views | scottishjack |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 14:12 - Mar 27 by Darran |
Why does everyone forget about the two new training complexes that have just about been delivered? |
Innit! F**k planning for the future, we want success and we want it now! Can't believe we aren't in the Champions League quarter finals next week ffs! Huw Out!!! | | | |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 14:36 - Mar 27 with 4729 views | jacksfullaces |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 14:12 - Mar 27 by Darran |
Why does everyone forget about the two new training complexes that have just about been delivered? |
players showering with public - are these new complexes a retreat from community engagement then ;) lost our core values mun.... | | | |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 14:44 - Mar 27 with 4706 views | Cooperman |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 14:12 - Mar 27 by Darran |
Why does everyone forget about the two new training complexes that have just about been delivered? |
And the fact that we are one of the few clubs who are cash rich. |  |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 16:37 - Mar 27 with 4617 views | Dewi1jack |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 14:17 - Mar 27 by scottishjack |
Innit! F**k planning for the future, we want success and we want it now! Can't believe we aren't in the Champions League quarter finals next week ffs! Huw Out!!! |
Our expansion should take us beyond the Camp Nou capacity as well. Not planning for the future at all
Up to 12,000 staged expansion is small time thinking.
We can get Messi and Ronaldo instead of Emnes then |  |
| If you wake up breathing, thats a good start to your day and you'll make many thousands of people envious. |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 18:06 - Mar 27 with 4547 views | scottishjack |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 16:37 - Mar 27 by Dewi1jack |
Our expansion should take us beyond the Camp Nou capacity as well. Not planning for the future at all
Up to 12,000 staged expansion is small time thinking.
We can get Messi and Ronaldo instead of Emnes then |
100% agree... and if we don't win the Superbowl next season then I for one will not be renewing my season ticket! | | | |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 18:13 - Mar 27 with 4537 views | Dr_Winston |
Funny how disappointment about an already strong team that had £20m spent on it spending the season battling relegation, allied to a club increasingly treating the people who saved it as customers rather than fans apparently equates to thinking that we should be smashing teams weekly in a 40,000 seater stadium. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 18:45 - Mar 27 with 4511 views | ApeShit |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 18:13 - Mar 27 by Dr_Winston |
Funny how disappointment about an already strong team that had £20m spent on it spending the season battling relegation, allied to a club increasingly treating the people who saved it as customers rather than fans apparently equates to thinking that we should be smashing teams weekly in a 40,000 seater stadium. |
Well said. |  | | |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 18:49 - Mar 27 with 4500 views | Glyn1 |
Simple. Expand the stadium and don't be offended if most games don't sell out. If we remain a stable mid-table team playing good football then I would be happy with that.
It would also be great if the kids in Camarthen, Pembroke and the rest of west Wales supported us instead of Man Utd and we should encourag that |  |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 18:56 - Mar 27 with 4488 views | Cooperman |
It won't be long before the next generation of kids stop supporting Manure and start supporting Man City. | |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 19:29 - Mar 27 with 4432 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 18:56 - Mar 27 by Cooperman |
It won't be long before the next generation of kids stop supporting Manure and start supporting Man City. |
I look forward to engaging YayaToureSuperstar and others in Swansea related debates in the future. | |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 19:52 - Mar 27 with 4392 views | exiledclaseboy |
The best way to deal with mid-table "mediocrity", which with the best will in the world is the most we can aim for if we want to stick around the Premier League for the long term, is to take each game as an individual event and enjoy it on that basis. That's easier, of course, if we're comfortably above the drop zone and don't have to look over our shoulders as we have been in the past two seasons. Not so much this one. I genuinely don't understand the untold misery our three years in the Premier League seem to have brought on a significant chunk of our fanbase. I've loved every minute of it.
Perversely I'm quite enjoying the position we find ourselves in now. Every game is massive, every point to be treasured and we're equally as interested in how the teams around us have got on as in our own result. Arsenal on Tuesday was only my second away game of the season and I celebrated the equaliser with as much gusto as I celebrated the winner against Man City at the Lib in our first season. You can't buy that kind of rush. That enjoyment will only remain with the benefit of hindsight if we kick off in the Premier League again in August though. |  |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 19:57 - Mar 27 with 4371 views | Darran |
I agree imagine if we'd got to 45 points in December and not won another game all season ,it would be mental. | |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 19:58 - Mar 27 with 4365 views | exiledclaseboy |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 19:57 - Mar 27 by Darran |
I agree imagine if we'd got to 45 points in December and not won another game all season ,it would be mental. |
Similar to last season. We won the League Cup (great) got to 40 points (brilliant) by the beginning of March and then everyone went on holiday. The highlight of that period being the comedy win at Wigan. | |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 19:59 - Mar 27 with 4364 views | Darran |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 19:58 - Mar 27 by exiledclaseboy |
Similar to last season. We won the League Cup (great) got to 40 points (brilliant) by the beginning of March and then everyone went on holiday. The highlight of that period being the comedy win at Wigan. |
Innit. | |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 19:59 - Mar 27 with 4364 views | midswan |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 19:52 - Mar 27 by exiledclaseboy |
The best way to deal with mid-table "mediocrity", which with the best will in the world is the most we can aim for if we want to stick around the Premier League for the long term, is to take each game as an individual event and enjoy it on that basis. That's easier, of course, if we're comfortably above the drop zone and don't have to look over our shoulders as we have been in the past two seasons. Not so much this one. I genuinely don't understand the untold misery our three years in the Premier League seem to have brought on a significant chunk of our fanbase. I've loved every minute of it.
Perversely I'm quite enjoying the position we find ourselves in now. Every game is massive, every point to be treasured and we're equally as interested in how the teams around us have got on as in our own result. Arsenal on Tuesday was only my second away game of the season and I celebrated the equaliser with as much gusto as I celebrated the winner against Man City at the Lib in our first season. You can't buy that kind of rush. That enjoyment will only remain with the benefit of hindsight if we kick off in the Premier League again in August though. |
Absolutely spot on.Its been (and still is ) fantastic,long may it continue. | | | |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 20:00 - Mar 27 with 4361 views | NeathJack |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 19:52 - Mar 27 by exiledclaseboy |
The best way to deal with mid-table "mediocrity", which with the best will in the world is the most we can aim for if we want to stick around the Premier League for the long term, is to take each game as an individual event and enjoy it on that basis. That's easier, of course, if we're comfortably above the drop zone and don't have to look over our shoulders as we have been in the past two seasons. Not so much this one. I genuinely don't understand the untold misery our three years in the Premier League seem to have brought on a significant chunk of our fanbase. I've loved every minute of it.
Perversely I'm quite enjoying the position we find ourselves in now. Every game is massive, every point to be treasured and we're equally as interested in how the teams around us have got on as in our own result. Arsenal on Tuesday was only my second away game of the season and I celebrated the equaliser with as much gusto as I celebrated the winner against Man City at the Lib in our first season. You can't buy that kind of rush. That enjoyment will only remain with the benefit of hindsight if we kick off in the Premier League again in August though. |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 20:15 - Mar 27 with 4323 views | swancity |
Recent research confirmed that we are in the bottom three in the Premier League this season in terms of transfer fees paid and salaries, with only Crystal Palace who are bottom and one other, who I think were Hull City, being below us.
Couple this with us having the smallest stadium and lowest attendances, we are punching above our weight and it demonstrates that we are, in reality, exceeding realistic expectations in 15th place.
It puts the achievements of last season into context when Michael Laudrup worked a miracle . And the year before when we surprised teams with our stylish pass and move philosophy under Brendan Rodgers.
It will get more and more difficult to stay in the PL. And of course we may go down this season. The uncertainty makes it fascinating doesn't it. Lots of fans are losing a bit of interest as the novelty value wears off but they are being replaced by new fans. Interesting times indeed. | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 21:08 - Mar 27 with 4253 views | DwightYorkeSuperstar |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 20:15 - Mar 27 by swancity |
Recent research confirmed that we are in the bottom three in the Premier League this season in terms of transfer fees paid and salaries, with only Crystal Palace who are bottom and one other, who I think were Hull City, being below us.
Couple this with us having the smallest stadium and lowest attendances, we are punching above our weight and it demonstrates that we are, in reality, exceeding realistic expectations in 15th place.
It puts the achievements of last season into context when Michael Laudrup worked a miracle . And the year before when we surprised teams with our stylish pass and move philosophy under Brendan Rodgers.
It will get more and more difficult to stay in the PL. And of course we may go down this season. The uncertainty makes it fascinating doesn't it. Lots of fans are losing a bit of interest as the novelty value wears off but they are being replaced by new fans. Interesting times indeed. |
Could you please share a link to this recent research, thank you. | |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 22:04 - Mar 27 with 4184 views | swancity |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 21:08 - Mar 27 by DwightYorkeSuperstar |
Could you please share a link to this recent research, thank you. |
The table was shown on Sky Sports last night, on the Footballers Football Show I think it was called
The difference between the likes of Chelsea and Manchester City and Swansea and Crystal Palace did not warrant them being in the same division. It puts our achievements into perspective. | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 23:13 - Mar 27 with 4111 views | Catullus |
I think most of us already knew what the "recent research" showed. Some clubs spend more on one player than we did in the whole of the transfer periods.
And we know that it'll take several of our players wages to equal the wages of just one megastar at a big club.
ECB made the point very well, he said perversely but it makes perfect sense. A lot more people have been engaged in furious debate about our current situation. Last season people were apathetic long before seasons end!!
For myself, I often enjoy the current season more in retrospect than I did "in the moment" I look back at the rise under Toshack with rose tinted glasses, which makes it an almost surreal thing. I was just 13 when we hit the old division one. I didn't understand a lot of the things, I just watched the games and enjoyed them. Now I know a lot more about it, the finances, the politics, the rules, they are all a part of the experience whereas before all I cared about was from the moment they crossed the white line until the final whistle went.
The reality is we will get relegated one day, probably. Another reality is that in some ways I enjoyed the journey to the PL more than the being there.
The club has to grow, if we want long term PL football we need more fans coming to games regularly. The facilities needed improving. You can't compete (long term) in the Pl with league two facilities.
It'll be a long time, if ever, before we pay 30 million for a player. And our upward spiral had to stop somewhere.
The truth is I have never expected us to win every game. All I have ever asked for is that we try. If we get relegated but we have gone down fighting, I can accept that. I could never accept players giving up, not trying or a manager that was happy to say we can't win those games.
When we were lower league and we played higher placed teams, we were always up for it. We did West ham at the Vetch, so I could not accept going to the Boleyn and going down with a whimper to ten men.
If we stay up this season it will have been a successful season. And even if we go down we are very well positioned to compete next time around.
Long term I hope we get bigger as a club but as long as we still have a club I will be happy. A lot happier than some other clubs supporters (Hull if the name change happens, Cardiff obviously) because our team is still Swansea City and we still play in our traditional colours.
Maybe we should adopt a motto, hope for the best but prepare for the worst? because when it comes to Premier league football, even a big gun can have a bad season. | |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 23:15 - Mar 27 with 4110 views | hammy |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 19:52 - Mar 27 by exiledclaseboy |
The best way to deal with mid-table "mediocrity", which with the best will in the world is the most we can aim for if we want to stick around the Premier League for the long term, is to take each game as an individual event and enjoy it on that basis. That's easier, of course, if we're comfortably above the drop zone and don't have to look over our shoulders as we have been in the past two seasons. Not so much this one. I genuinely don't understand the untold misery our three years in the Premier League seem to have brought on a significant chunk of our fanbase. I've loved every minute of it.
Perversely I'm quite enjoying the position we find ourselves in now. Every game is massive, every point to be treasured and we're equally as interested in how the teams around us have got on as in our own result. Arsenal on Tuesday was only my second away game of the season and I celebrated the equaliser with as much gusto as I celebrated the winner against Man City at the Lib in our first season. You can't buy that kind of rush. That enjoyment will only remain with the benefit of hindsight if we kick off in the Premier League again in August though. |
Yes, this relegation battle is really enjoyable in a perverse kind of way. Just makes every match more intense and more interesting. But would be very nice to finally beat the Canaries on Saturday ! |  |
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| Some realities? Measuring Success on 00:03 - Mar 28 with 4076 views | JJJack |
| Some realities? Measuring Success on 19:58 - Mar 27 by exiledclaseboy |
Similar to last season. We won the League Cup (great) got to 40 points (brilliant) by the beginning of March and then everyone went on holiday. The highlight of that period being the comedy win at Wigan. |
"comedy win at Wigan." 
Christ that game was bizarre. I remember the old man phoning me at half-time and being apoplectic at our supposed ineptitude whereas I thought we were doing ok, told him to calm down and that I could see us winning it. 2nd half was just priceless....Schecter's goal. Dwight fecking tiendalli somehow scoring, Wigan's defending, Roberto's face etc, ect. Brilliant entertainment . |  | | |
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