| We are like a rudderless ship. 19:53 - Mar 15 with 5433 views | NOTRAC |
Why did we sign Ngog.The January window now seems to have been a disaster for us.We even got the Ki loan wrong.We seem to have lost the forward thinking mentality that has made us so successful in the past years. At the moment we are like a rudderless ship both in Board and team management.We need to sort things out quick |  |
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:26 - Mar 16 with 1031 views | Dr_Winston |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:23 - Mar 16 by blaine_scfc |
Who does he answer to though? No one from what I can see. |
In theory he answers to the shareholders. If enough of the shareholders think he's doing a bad job then he can be removed (worst case scenario).
Maybe blaine's right. Maybe the fact that most of the shareholders are his mates is a good enough reason to bring in a chairman/CEO who they can be dispassionate about. No reason why he can't still be involved somewhere in the running of the club.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:30 - Mar 16 with 1019 views | Uxbridge |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:26 - Mar 16 by Dr_Winston |
In theory he answers to the shareholders. If enough of the shareholders think he's doing a bad job then he can be removed (worst case scenario).
Maybe blaine's right. Maybe the fact that most of the shareholders are his mates is a good enough reason to bring in a chairman/CEO who they can be dispassionate about. No reason why he can't still be involved somewhere in the running of the club.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
It's not theory, it's fact.
It should be commonplace to review recent events to see how to improve in future. The handling of recent events should absolutely come under that. |  |
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:31 - Mar 16 with 1017 views | Dr_Winston |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:30 - Mar 16 by Uxbridge |
It's not theory, it's fact.
It should be commonplace to review recent events to see how to improve in future. The handling of recent events should absolutely come under that. |
But will that happen given how tight he is with Dineen, MM and Co? | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:35 - Mar 16 with 1011 views | Uxbridge |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:31 - Mar 16 by Dr_Winston |
But will that happen given how tight he is with Dineen, MM and Co? |
Good question.
By itself the Trust can't force anything through at the moment. Thats part of the reason I'm really keen on them increasing past 25%. | |
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:43 - Mar 16 with 996 views | Dr_Winston |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:35 - Mar 16 by Uxbridge |
Good question.
By itself the Trust can't force anything through at the moment. Thats part of the reason I'm really keen on them increasing past 25%. |
The NBA and early supporters trust didn't control any of SCFC at the time yet they still forced change.
I genuinely believe that one of the most important roles of the Supporter Director and Trust in general is to ask the questions and say the things that the club would really prefer they didn't. To use a political term, their job is to be the Awkward Squad. To be the oversight.
With the use of the media and internet then the voice of the supporters can wield far more power and influence than a 20% shareholding would in a normal company.
This post has been edited by an administrator | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:45 - Mar 16 with 993 views | WarwickHunt |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:26 - Mar 16 by Dr_Winston |
In theory he answers to the shareholders. If enough of the shareholders think he's doing a bad job then he can be removed (worst case scenario).
Maybe blaine's right. Maybe the fact that most of the shareholders are his mates is a good enough reason to bring in a chairman/CEO who they can be dispassionate about. No reason why he can't still be involved somewhere in the running of the club.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
This.
ASAP. |  | | |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:49 - Mar 16 with 984 views | blaine_scfc |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:43 - Mar 16 by Dr_Winston |
The NBA and early supporters trust didn't control any of SCFC at the time yet they still forced change.
I genuinely believe that one of the most important roles of the Supporter Director and Trust in general is to ask the questions and say the things that the club would really prefer they didn't. To use a political term, their job is to be the Awkward Squad. To be the oversight.
With the use of the media and internet then the voice of the supporters can wield far more power and influence than a 20% shareholding would in a normal company.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
The supporter director seems just as friendly with Jenkins as Dineen and co. What they say goes and I don't really see any one asking any questions at all, which is the worrying part as far as I'm concerned. [Post edited 16 Mar 2014 9:50]
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:51 - Mar 16 with 980 views | Dull1Thomas |
We couldn't get the players ML wanted (although he said didn't think we needed any) and others didn't want to come. In my opinion we wasted too much time on Ince who was never going to sign for us.
By that time someone decided we needed more players and bought two who they had some knowledge of. | |
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:55 - Mar 16 with 969 views | WarwickHunt |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:43 - Mar 16 by Dr_Winston |
The NBA and early supporters trust didn't control any of SCFC at the time yet they still forced change.
I genuinely believe that one of the most important roles of the Supporter Director and Trust in general is to ask the questions and say the things that the club would really prefer they didn't. To use a political term, their job is to be the Awkward Squad. To be the oversight.
With the use of the media and internet then the voice of the supporters can wield far more power and influence than a 20% shareholding would in a normal company.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Well, the Trust chairman admitted on here he didn't know offhand what the £3.2m payment to MM's company was for (and if I remember correctly, they weren't consulted over ML's sacking).
Seems obvious that Jenkins & Co. do whatever the f*ck they want...
We are, or at least were, approaching our fourth season in the biggest league in the world and we're being run by amateurs. We've outgrown the board, our fans need to wake the f*ck up. | | | |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:55 - Mar 16 with 965 views | blaine_scfc |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:55 - Mar 16 by WarwickHunt |
Well, the Trust chairman admitted on here he didn't know offhand what the £3.2m payment to MM's company was for (and if I remember correctly, they weren't consulted over ML's sacking).
Seems obvious that Jenkins & Co. do whatever the f*ck they want...
We are, or at least were, approaching our fourth season in the biggest league in the world and we're being run by amateurs. We've outgrown the board, our fans need to wake the f*ck up. |
This. In a nutshell ^^^^ | | | |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:56 - Mar 16 with 961 views | ApeShit |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:49 - Mar 16 by blaine_scfc |
The supporter director seems just as friendly with Jenkins as Dineen and co. What they say goes and I don't really see any one asking any questions at all, which is the worrying part as far as I'm concerned. [Post edited 16 Mar 2014 9:50]
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Exactly. |  | | |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:01 - Mar 16 with 939 views | Bing |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:56 - Mar 16 by ApeShit |
Exactly. |
I think its fair to say that the current supporter director like his predecessor has outgrown his effectiveness. Dineen became cosy with the board and ended up with his own shareholding and become a rich man as a result and Cooze has gone the same way - too cosy with the current board and afraid to challenge them over anything | | | |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:02 - Mar 16 with 933 views | Dr_Winston |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:55 - Mar 16 by WarwickHunt |
Well, the Trust chairman admitted on here he didn't know offhand what the £3.2m payment to MM's company was for (and if I remember correctly, they weren't consulted over ML's sacking).
Seems obvious that Jenkins & Co. do whatever the f*ck they want...
We are, or at least were, approaching our fourth season in the biggest league in the world and we're being run by amateurs. We've outgrown the board, our fans need to wake the f*ck up. |
First line is a little harsh. I wouldn't expect Phil to know the ins and outs of the accounts off by heart, nor would I expect the club to ask the Trust for permission to sack a manager. The director is there to have a say about that stuff.
Rest of it I concur with completely. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:03 - Mar 16 with 932 views | Uxbridge |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 09:55 - Mar 16 by WarwickHunt |
Well, the Trust chairman admitted on here he didn't know offhand what the £3.2m payment to MM's company was for (and if I remember correctly, they weren't consulted over ML's sacking).
Seems obvious that Jenkins & Co. do whatever the f*ck they want...
We are, or at least were, approaching our fourth season in the biggest league in the world and we're being run by amateurs. We've outgrown the board, our fans need to wake the f*ck up. |
The lack of awareness regarding MMs building of Landore is rather surprising I agree. Lessons regarding communication need to be lesrned. There's no excuse for keeping the Trust out of the loop on such matters.
There needs to be a review of current setup during the close season imo. | |
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:05 - Mar 16 with 923 views | Dr_Winston |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:01 - Mar 16 by Bing |
I think its fair to say that the current supporter director like his predecessor has outgrown his effectiveness. Dineen became cosy with the board and ended up with his own shareholding and become a rich man as a result and Cooze has gone the same way - too cosy with the current board and afraid to challenge them over anything |
He may challenge them over stuff. Problem is nobody knows if he does or doesn't. He has previously defended the club over things on here in the past. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:08 - Mar 16 with 908 views | Uxbridge |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:05 - Mar 16 by Dr_Winston |
He may challenge them over stuff. Problem is nobody knows if he does or doesn't. He has previously defended the club over things on here in the past. |
Doesn't mean he doesn't. It's an impossible gig. Agree communication is key, and it's been lacking a little. | |
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:12 - Mar 16 with 886 views | Dr_Winston |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:08 - Mar 16 by Uxbridge |
Doesn't mean he doesn't. It's an impossible gig. Agree communication is key, and it's been lacking a little. |
Communication is everything.
It's a widely held belief that Jenks gets more involved than he should do with transfers. IF that is true, then the SD should be releasing that information to the fans so he can be held accountable for it. If it's untrue, then he should be denying it so the rumours can stop (they probably won't in any case, but at least he'll have tried).
Silence achieves nothing. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:15 - Mar 16 with 879 views | Bing |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:05 - Mar 16 by Dr_Winston |
He may challenge them over stuff. Problem is nobody knows if he does or doesn't. He has previously defended the club over things on here in the past. |
Does he post often and on what kind of subjects? The debate on here in the week around the accounts was an interesting one - money to Dineen, Cooze and Morgan which may be the best deal for the club but would these people have got the gigs if they werent shareholders? Add to that all the club communication comes through jim whites company and you have a lot of people making money off the back of this club and all very cosy with them as well. look up at the directors box each game and see a trust board member taking a freebie too | | | |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:20 - Mar 16 with 870 views | Uxbridge |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:12 - Mar 16 by Dr_Winston |
Communication is everything.
It's a widely held belief that Jenks gets more involved than he should do with transfers. IF that is true, then the SD should be releasing that information to the fans so he can be held accountable for it. If it's untrue, then he should be denying it so the rumours can stop (they probably won't in any case, but at least he'll have tried).
Silence achieves nothing. |
There are things that cant be said, and things that can. Can be a difficult balancing act. Agree the balance isn't as I'd like it. | |
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:20 - Mar 16 with 867 views | Shaky |
FWIW, here is a partial extract of the exchange I had with Phil in a PM I sent Feb 8.
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My main concern, however, is the corporate governance position at the club level.
If you looked at the Cadbury report you will see that one of the key recommendations is that the roles of CEO and Chairman of the board should be separated.
The reason for that is that when a strong individual wears both hats, the ability of the board to do its job monitoring management's decision making and holding them accountable is severely compromised. The board is simply unable to carry out its responsibilities properly, and like I say on the forum I could give you several examples of that resulting in companies I have advised going tits up -- quite spectacularly.
Now I obviously realise that the Cadbury code and Stock Exchange exchange regulations don't strictly apply to the club, but that fact doesn't preclude the adoption of corporate governance best practice.
Furthermore, as I see it the Trust's shareholding owned by a diversified member base give the club some of the characteristics of a widely owned company that the regulations are exactly intended to protect.
Partly for that reason I think there is a very strong, legitimate argument that the Trust should appoint the Chairman of the Board.
Anyway, those are my thoughts; do with them as you see fit.
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:22 - Mar 16 with 858 views | Shaky |
Here is most of the first PM I sent him a day before:
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Totally ignoring the rights and wrongs of the current Ludrup-gate situation I genuinely believe this is a huge potential issue that could come back to bite you in future if you leave it unresolved.
In my day the state of the art on corporate governance was formulated in the Cadbury report which was subsequently incorporated into the London Stock Exchange Yellow Book Listing Rules.
The Report itself was particularly concerned with issues surrounding financial reporting having been commissioned in the wake of various financial scandals in the late 80s, but was wide ranging and I am certain that large parts are directly relevant to your situation.
I would urge you to take a look at it via this link I found for you: http://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/cadbury/report/
If you subsequently want to discuss it in confidence please send me a PM. | |
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:37 - Mar 16 with 807 views | blaine_scfc |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:22 - Mar 16 by Shaky |
Here is most of the first PM I sent him a day before:
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Totally ignoring the rights and wrongs of the current Ludrup-gate situation I genuinely believe this is a huge potential issue that could come back to bite you in future if you leave it unresolved.
In my day the state of the art on corporate governance was formulated in the Cadbury report which was subsequently incorporated into the London Stock Exchange Yellow Book Listing Rules.
The Report itself was particularly concerned with issues surrounding financial reporting having been commissioned in the wake of various financial scandals in the late 80s, but was wide ranging and I am certain that large parts are directly relevant to your situation.
I would urge you to take a look at it via this link I found for you: http://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/cadbury/report/
If you subsequently want to discuss it in confidence please send me a PM. |
Did you get a satisfactory reply? Obviously I wouldn't expect you to give any details as it was a private message. Just wondering were any questions answered about the points you rightly made. | | | |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:40 - Mar 16 with 796 views | Shaky |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:37 - Mar 16 by blaine_scfc |
Did you get a satisfactory reply? Obviously I wouldn't expect you to give any details as it was a private message. Just wondering were any questions answered about the points you rightly made. |
I think what I can say is I didn't receive a reply to my second PM (the one I posted first above). | |
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:49 - Mar 16 with 767 views | monmouth |
I'm not arguing with you Shaky as I get and empathise with your underlying argument, but Corporate Governancehas gone way beyond Cadbury in 1992. The UK Corporate Governance code is the baby you need if you're going down that route. That reinorces the split role and the role of independent directorsin spades, BUT of course no private company needs to adopt any of the principles and anyway could simply 'explain' if they wanted to adopt the UK CG code (it's 'comply or explain', by explaining, you actually comply). CG is all about resolving the agency problem and getting transparency for SHAREHOLDERS, not any third partylike fans. With SCFC there simply isn't an agency problem as the shareholders have full representation on the the Board, so there is no CG structural problem.
Hence, private companies can do basically as they like. The issue as I see it is that the Trust director is, in substance, the independent director in this particular structure, and the only real remedy is that if the actual shareholders (the Trust) represented by that Director aren't happy, then they can vote to replace him. Other than that,the way the club is run is at the discretion of the Board, so like it or not - and I'm not sure I do - there is no genuine CG issue here......as long as the Trust ensures that their Director discharges their required remit.
That's how I read the situaton anyhow. |  |
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| We are like a rudderless ship. on 10:51 - Mar 16 with 761 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| We are like a rudderless ship. on 21:13 - Mar 15 by Brynmill_Jack |
Well if we go down at least the prem tourists season tickets will be up for grabs for all our true fans who didn't renew before we went up. |
Yes but how do you feel about paying Prem prices to watch Championship football?
Don't you feel just a little bit betrayed by the board? | | | |
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