| Sorry guys but more help needed. 18:17 - Nov 20 with 1917 views | RangersDave |
If anyone can help with advice here I'd be grateful. I have no cash or savings having been unemployed since I left my employer in August so a solicitor will be my last hope.
Anyway,
My previous employer has through their solicitor presented me with a 40 page dosier stating that I stole clients from them, and have lied about them on forums.
They want by the 7th December £138,384.34 as compensation for losing the 'contract' due to their inability to complete designs that would lead to product.
The client walked away, and eventually sought me out and has asked me to help. My old employer is unhappy with this but my contract says I cannot approach anyone, but doesn't say they cannot approach me.
I'm trained in 1 particular specialist field and as there wasn't clause stopping me starting up on my own, this is what I have done.
So I have 2 weeks to answer them and pay up the full amount, plus the 6 weeks wages they paid me while they put me on gardening leave.
My thoughts are to tell them to go hang, they lost the deal, it wasn't my fault they were bargaining on getting that money to stay afloat (if indeed they sink) but I know it was in their cash projections for the next 12 months.
They lost it through their ineptitude and untruths, (provable due to a paper trail I have).
Oh there was no contract, only the one to supply the designs. And follow on would then be an official order, and my ex company has already lost another client in recent weeks through ineptitude.
Any help gratefully received.
Cheers
Dave |  |
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 18:42 - Nov 20 with 1865 views | TheBlob |
No contract?Tell them to fukk right off.
And if you have proof that no untruths were instigated hit them with a counter suit of Defamation. |  |
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 18:55 - Nov 20 with 1834 views | DWQPR |
Dave, hope you are well and the Missus too. If this helps I left my last employer 13 years ago to go self-employed. In my contract was a clause that I could not approach my clients. This company is a big FTSE100 company. Anyway. I contacted many of my old clients and asked that if they were contacted by my old company that they would state that they approached me. The could not prove a thing. If this client would testify that they approached you after you left, the only thing that your old employer could hang you with possibly is phone records. Therefore I doubt that they have a leg to stand on. Sounds like a panic measure by them, especially with the amount that they are asking for is beyond the means of most. I would still contact a lawyer. Most will give you free advice initially and provide proper guidance. |  |
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 19:07 - Nov 20 with 1809 views | RangersDave |
Hello mate,
Yes we are both fine thanks, and same back :-)
We indeed never had contracts and the client pulled everything before my now client had given even a tentative order.
I have lots of e-mails giving me a paper trail, and proof that I was approached, not the approacher.
So I know they have no legs to stand on, but it's always better to get others opinions on this.
I also know that if they take it to court their dosier is factually inaccurate and would show them up as pretty much incompetent. Their solicitor won't know what's hit her to be honest when my guy stands up and says 'your honour, none of this is true and hers the proof'.
It's more of a nagging worry for me , plus the blinking cost that I don't gave the dosh for to pay a solicitor.
Cheers
Dave | |
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 19:08 - Nov 20 with 1806 views | RangersDave |
Oh and an ironic thing is the guy they've employed to replace me offered to help me out financially if I ever decided to leave. Lol
Cheers
Dave | |
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 19:18 - Nov 20 with 1771 views | Lblock |
Unless your ex firm are willing to pay for the absolute top dog legal team and retrospectively spend time compiling a false trail then I'd say you've a strong position.
I would write to them (Recorded Delivery) as an individual first stating they are wrong on all counts, you have not solicited any of their Clients but have been sought out and have no golden handcuff clauses or agreement in place plus (most importantly) that you do not wish to engage in expensive legal arguments and that this surprising claim out of the blue is causing you stress and mental anguish.
If they dont drop it get a lawyer on board and fight it plus as noted above issue a counter claim for distress and recovery of costs.
If you are REALLY worried they may have a case against you then transfer all your assets into someone elses name you can trust. What's not there cant be dissolved!!! |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 21:19 - Nov 20 with 1660 views | kensalriser |
get a solicitor on legal aid. Don't f about. No doubt this is a scare tactic, if it is, a letter from a half decent solicitor will see them off. |  |
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 22:17 - Nov 20 with 1592 views | thame_hoops |
| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 21:19 - Nov 20 by kensalriser |
get a solicitor on legal aid. Don't f about. No doubt this is a scare tactic, if it is, a letter from a half decent solicitor will see them off. |
I don't think you'll qualify for legal aid?
Before I started my company I was in sales and it was always in a contract that if you left you can't approach customers but I was told by a lawyer once that this isn't enforceable due to the European laws that you can't stop a man making a living. Mate, lawyers are expensive but you do need one I'm afraid. Good luck, seriously.
These company's that think they can bully people, fcuk them, I was sick of working for bullies hence why i started by myself too. |  | | |
| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 08:10 - Nov 21 with 1446 views | Bigears |
Most of the advice I can give is all covered above as it appears they have been through what you have e.g. they can only recover monies for the contract they signed and lost, any future business they cant touch you for, transfer all your assets to someone else name then they cant touch that, you should have emails or correspondence showing they chased you.
You can also get your contract, any contract that stops you gong to work for someone else needs to be very specific, if it is worded generic to cover all of your work then this will not count.
The lawyer is playing hard ball, hoping your panic and pay without consulting this is a normal tactic. Reply as mentioned above, dont pay and if there is a chance that they may be right, ask them to prove their lost and then go through them with a fne tooth comb and birng them down and negotiate.
But dont pay fight it as most of these are bluffing, and please seek legal advice from someone who specialists. It may cost, but will save you a lot f u think they have a case.
But first of all, relax dont panic, dont respond automaticly, take your time and plan your steps | | | |
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 09:14 - Nov 21 with 1381 views | pomanjou |
During the 6 weeks paid 'gardening leave' did you assist in any way the client of your former employer even if he initiated the contact? The date of the initial contact could be crucial. During that period did you engage in any forum activity that could be regarded as even remotely negative of your former employer?
Given your specialist field and inability to pay (even if you had any inclination to do so!)
you should be in touch with an employment law specialist lawyer for clarification of your position and any possible financial downside.
Don't rely on football forums for something so important. |  |
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 09:16 - Nov 21 with 1377 views | headhoops |
Hi Dave,
as previously mentioned most of the advice has already been given. For what its worth if you have to spend money on a lawyer get an absolute fuc£ off one. (I'm a publisher and was looking at a £100,000 libel claim - I paid Carter Ruck £250 just for a letter - the other side bottled it straight away).
I would check out transferring your assets - if this is done after you left the company I don't think you are as safe as some have intimated - plus it may look like you are trying to hide something.
You seem to have everything else in good shape - hold your nerve and if necessary put in a counterclaim for stress etc. Take advice but if you are going to do it - list the directors individually as well as the company - that way when you win if the company cannot pay you then the directors I believe do.
As mentioned I'm not a lawyer - get a good one.
Good luck. |  |
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 09:48 - Nov 21 with 1342 views | stevec |
Dave, I am sorry to hear your predicament. It sounds as if you are unable to get legal aid and clearly cannot afford a solicitor. I don't know if the retrospective nature of the problem may be an issue but if you have been approached by ex clients and was in a position to set up a business, membership of the FSB (Federation of Small Businesses) could possibly help you. They offer free legal advice and also are able to fight your case for you, I believe at no cost. There may be a limit but I suspect your litigation would not breach it.
As I say, not sure how they would view this given it happened before you joined but over the years I have found them very helpful. Maybe worth a try.
Whatever happens, good luck. |  | | |
| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 10:17 - Nov 21 with 1300 views | SomersetHoops |
| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 09:48 - Nov 21 by stevec |
Dave, I am sorry to hear your predicament. It sounds as if you are unable to get legal aid and clearly cannot afford a solicitor. I don't know if the retrospective nature of the problem may be an issue but if you have been approached by ex clients and was in a position to set up a business, membership of the FSB (Federation of Small Businesses) could possibly help you. They offer free legal advice and also are able to fight your case for you, I believe at no cost. There may be a limit but I suspect your litigation would not breach it.
As I say, not sure how they would view this given it happened before you joined but over the years I have found them very helpful. Maybe worth a try.
Whatever happens, good luck. |
I don't think the FSB will help retrospectively, although they may give you advice if you join. In your position I would try the Citizen's Advice Bureau as they should be able to advise what your options are. Your ex-employers can say what they like in a letter, but it doesn't have any authority of action unless they take it through the courts. From what you say if they did go to court they would not have a good case, but the outcome of any legal action would depend on what is presented to those in Judgement and who they believe based on the evidence. |  |
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 11:33 - Nov 21 with 1250 views | RangersDave |
Amazing that my previous employer is trying to get monies from me it says they lost when my now client sacked them and then moved to me. They had no contract with my client per se, and admit that in an e-mail I've been forwarded from my now client from my ex CEO.
So no contract, they have no guarantee of monies coming in, so how can they claim this?
Also my client never ordered stock from them either so that can't be factored in.
I've just joined the FSB as I think it could be valuable to me to be a member and I will ring them shortly.
I am, because of my ex CEO on blood pressure pills ( he once said to me 'if I'm not making you I'll, then I'm not doing my job') and this certainly isn't helping things especially after a sleepless night last night.
Thanks for all your help guys, it's appreciated and keep the comments coming. If anything it's keeping me sane at the moment.
Cheers
Dave | |
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 13:36 - Nov 21 with 1168 views | derbyhoop |
2 points that have not been covered and may be relevant.
1. Does your Home/Home Contents insurance cover legal costs. May not apply, but, if you don't ask you don't get.
2. When the stress is keeping you awake at night, just phone your ex CEO to tell him is unwarranted threats are causing you medical difficulties and that you felt, as a responsible executive, he would want to know. At 2am it makes the problem personal to him, as well as you. |  |
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 13:53 - Nov 21 with 1148 views | FloridaR |
Hi Dave
What does the restrictive covenant on your contract say specifically about contact with clients ?
The stated duration of time on the contract that restricts you from having contact with a former client after leaving the company?
How long was your Gardening leave ?
I hope these 3 things give you something to go with...... [Post edited 21 Nov 2013 14:01]
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 14:10 - Nov 21 with 1124 views | RangersDave |
My contract says I cannot for a period of 6 months from leaving employment solicit business from existing clients of my previous employ.
It doesn't say they cannot solicit me (and the nub here is they solicited me after they sacked my previous employer, which I mean to view as they are free agents to do what they wish). I hope I've not got that wrong........now I'm even more concerned. Lol
Gardening leave was 6 weeks.
[Post edited 21 Nov 2013 14:11]
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 14:34 - Nov 21 with 1094 views | FloridaR |
Thanks Dave
Did the contract state what they are trying to restrict you from doing (specifically) with a ex client ?
ie They want by the 7th December £138,384.34 as compensation for losing the 'contract' due to their inability to *complete designs that would lead to product*. [Post edited 21 Nov 2013 14:37]
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 14:51 - Nov 21 with 1079 views | FloridaR |
Bit hard to determine facts at this point.
You should maybe contact a contract law specialist to squash the notion that you owe them 138 k & if you spend 1000 its better than losing your arse with 138,000. If you are a one man band then you need to earn a living but the other company who employed you should have known the risks of employing your services.
*I think at the end of the day if you stay away from trying to prove they are a shit company you will save a lot of stress.
[Post edited 21 Nov 2013 14:53]
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 14:52 - Nov 21 with 1077 views | Brightonhoop |
DONT call your ex-CEO at 2am in any circumstances, they will claim harrassment and the Judge will view very dimly in any action reaching Court.
Get a decent Lawyer, Employment specialists in the vanguard are prepared to still take cases on for a no win no fee basis, it is covered by an insurance premium you have to pay, should be less than £200. The Lawyer will always take on water tight cases on this basis because the insurer ill pay out for their fees. They will also factor in a percentage of compensation won for you.
You must counter claim. Particularly on Health grounds alone. Go and find a decent Lawyer that will consider your case. Ask around locally, CAB, local Community Law Centres etc. |  | | |
| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 14:58 - Nov 21 with 1071 views | RangersDave |
It just says that I must not solicit contact with clients of my past company with a view to causing my previous company loss of potential earnings.
My contention is I didn't solicit, I merely had contact made to me by e-mail (which I kept) after they had sacked my previous company, asking whether I would like to work for them.
My previous company was paid for work (in full) they did not complete, and were not guaranteed by contract production of the goods. So they can't really say loss of earnings when there aren't any earnings in any contract specified.
I have a copy of a mail from my ex boss to my client stating that the work done so far is paid for in full, and my client is free to take his business and intellectual property wherever he wishes.
Cheers
Dave | |
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 14:58 - Nov 21 with 1069 views | FloridaR |
By the way Dave.
Don't give any info relating to the other company about you & them entering into agreement in this demand period as it might not be you that they after trying to sue to get the money longterm... ;)
Sent message... [Post edited 21 Nov 2013 15:07]
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| Sorry guys but more help needed. on 15:23 - Nov 21 with 1057 views | DWQPR |
Dave
I think that the most important advice at the moment is that you shouldn't need to lose any sleep over this matter. It does sound from what you have stated that your ex-employer is trying it on. However, it is important to get legal advice and there are many areas where you can get initial advice free. One thing, that if this ever went to court that your ex-employer would need to provide is evidence that you solicited this client after leaving employment, and a solicitor representing you would ask for this evidence to be supplied prior to any potential hearing. Evidence can never be conjured up in court to surprise the opposition, it would just be disallowed. So it may well be worth having a chat with a legal firm, getting them to send back a warning letter and also threatening a counter suit. But don't let this make you ill. You haven't got the money and therefore they cannot take what you haven't got. | |
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