| No coach to Stockton on 19:52 - Jan 6 with 3731 views | 442Dale |
“We have had forwarded to us; an indirect question posted on another social media site regarding potential coach travel options for the Stockton Town game this coming Wednesday
We have asked the Club who have replied:
“The Club no longer organise coach travel and the Trust is not in a position to organise the trip to Stockton at such short notice.””
Sorry, does that last bit make sense?!
Questions for the Trust, as they’re able to take them from “another social media site”:
When were they advised that the game may be moved to Stockton? (Noting that they have a rep on the club board who could then liaise with those who do sterling work in sorting coaches for away trips)
Were any enquiries made at this stage with coach companies about arranging possible travel? |  |
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| No coach to Stockton on 20:00 - Jan 6 with 3686 views | D_Alien |
| No coach to Stockton on 19:52 - Jan 6 by 442Dale |
“We have had forwarded to us; an indirect question posted on another social media site regarding potential coach travel options for the Stockton Town game this coming Wednesday
We have asked the Club who have replied:
“The Club no longer organise coach travel and the Trust is not in a position to organise the trip to Stockton at such short notice.””
Sorry, does that last bit make sense?!
Questions for the Trust, as they’re able to take them from “another social media site”:
When were they advised that the game may be moved to Stockton? (Noting that they have a rep on the club board who could then liaise with those who do sterling work in sorting coaches for away trips)
Were any enquiries made at this stage with coach companies about arranging possible travel? |
It's just badly worded, but it reads as if the club are answering a question on behalf of the Trust
Definitely not a Freudian slip |  |
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| No coach to Stockton on 20:01 - Jan 6 with 3677 views | judd |
| No coach to Stockton on 19:52 - Jan 6 by 442Dale |
“We have had forwarded to us; an indirect question posted on another social media site regarding potential coach travel options for the Stockton Town game this coming Wednesday
We have asked the Club who have replied:
“The Club no longer organise coach travel and the Trust is not in a position to organise the trip to Stockton at such short notice.””
Sorry, does that last bit make sense?!
Questions for the Trust, as they’re able to take them from “another social media site”:
When were they advised that the game may be moved to Stockton? (Noting that they have a rep on the club board who could then liaise with those who do sterling work in sorting coaches for away trips)
Were any enquiries made at this stage with coach companies about arranging possible travel? |
I'm puzzled too .
Why is the club replying on behalf of the Trust?
Looked at in isolation, this may seem a trivial matter, but the wording and paucity of effort is an unacceptable trait running through decision making.
Social media was used to express concerns about the AGM 530 start and closing the Sandy, yet were not followed up. Why now? |  |
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| No coach to Stockton on 23:06 - Jan 6 with 3417 views | Dalenet |
So not only do the club think it is beneath them to apologise for the postponement again, they decided to switch the home game to a ground over 100 miles away and don't think they have any responsibility to help fans get there.
The sooner we have a football regulator in place the better. Our fan engagement is worse than ever. |  | | |
| No coach to Stockton on 00:09 - Jan 7 with 3320 views | Sandyman |
The Trust newsletter states, with reference to closing The Sandy for the Stockton game and the pitch, "The Trust hopes during the week beginning 6th Jan to put out a more detailed statement on all matters subject to clarification on the above by the Club." After the game has been postponed and moved out of town. Stable door, horse, bolted. |  | | |
| No coach to Stockton on 06:27 - Jan 7 with 3153 views | TalkingSutty |
| No coach to Stockton on 23:06 - Jan 6 by Dalenet |
So not only do the club think it is beneath them to apologise for the postponement again, they decided to switch the home game to a ground over 100 miles away and don't think they have any responsibility to help fans get there.
The sooner we have a football regulator in place the better. Our fan engagement is worse than ever. |
The sooner the Ogdens start smelling the coffee the better. Simon Gauge is not capable of running a football club, his track record since he became chairman will tell you that. Every decision he makes is a bad one and invariably it results in alienating the fans..the paying customers. He has no background in business and i hope to god the Ogden family aren't relying on him to engage with local councillors or influential people. His personality and communication skills are the opposite of what is required. The Ogdens need to seriously look at this and engage with their fellow Directors. As for the Trust, well they aren't fit for purpose neither, a nodding dog in Simon Gauge's back pocket. Things need to change and quickly, Cameron Ogden needs to start taking some responsibility and speaking to other people, including the fans...and i don't mean the fan in the Boardroom. As a outsider looking in you would suspect that sabotage was at play since the Ogden take over, that's how much regression we have seen with the stagnation of the club and the alienation of the fans by those purporting to be in charge of running the club. We expectrd the opposite and so did the Ogden family i think. It's time the other Directors all got a grip of this situation and the club. We need a new co- chairman. [Post edited 7 Jan 6:36]
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| No coach to Stockton on 06:31 - Jan 7 with 3141 views | James1980 |
Do you ever get the feeling fans are seen as an irritance, by some? | |
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| No coach to Stockton on 07:29 - Jan 7 with 3075 views | nordenblue |
| No coach to Stockton on 06:31 - Jan 7 by James1980 |
Do you ever get the feeling fans are seen as an irritance, by some? |
Some folk at the club could do a lot worse than to listen to what Wigan Warriors Matt Peet said after his team won the award at SPOTY regarding supporters.........this should be put up in massive letters.
"That's our strength in our sport: we look at how we can help our supporters and communities, rather than what we can take from them." | | | |
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| No coach to Stockton on 08:14 - Jan 7 with 3040 views | James1980 |
| No coach to Stockton on 06:27 - Jan 7 by TalkingSutty |
The sooner the Ogdens start smelling the coffee the better. Simon Gauge is not capable of running a football club, his track record since he became chairman will tell you that. Every decision he makes is a bad one and invariably it results in alienating the fans..the paying customers. He has no background in business and i hope to god the Ogden family aren't relying on him to engage with local councillors or influential people. His personality and communication skills are the opposite of what is required. The Ogdens need to seriously look at this and engage with their fellow Directors. As for the Trust, well they aren't fit for purpose neither, a nodding dog in Simon Gauge's back pocket. Things need to change and quickly, Cameron Ogden needs to start taking some responsibility and speaking to other people, including the fans...and i don't mean the fan in the Boardroom. As a outsider looking in you would suspect that sabotage was at play since the Ogden take over, that's how much regression we have seen with the stagnation of the club and the alienation of the fans by those purporting to be in charge of running the club. We expectrd the opposite and so did the Ogden family i think. It's time the other Directors all got a grip of this situation and the club. We need a new co- chairman. [Post edited 7 Jan 6:36]
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But the vast amount money put in to the club acts as a shield against any criticism. | |
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| No coach to Stockton on 09:25 - Jan 7 with 2935 views | D_Alien |
| No coach to Stockton on 06:27 - Jan 7 by TalkingSutty |
The sooner the Ogdens start smelling the coffee the better. Simon Gauge is not capable of running a football club, his track record since he became chairman will tell you that. Every decision he makes is a bad one and invariably it results in alienating the fans..the paying customers. He has no background in business and i hope to god the Ogden family aren't relying on him to engage with local councillors or influential people. His personality and communication skills are the opposite of what is required. The Ogdens need to seriously look at this and engage with their fellow Directors. As for the Trust, well they aren't fit for purpose neither, a nodding dog in Simon Gauge's back pocket. Things need to change and quickly, Cameron Ogden needs to start taking some responsibility and speaking to other people, including the fans...and i don't mean the fan in the Boardroom. As a outsider looking in you would suspect that sabotage was at play since the Ogden take over, that's how much regression we have seen with the stagnation of the club and the alienation of the fans by those purporting to be in charge of running the club. We expectrd the opposite and so did the Ogden family i think. It's time the other Directors all got a grip of this situation and the club. We need a new co- chairman. [Post edited 7 Jan 6:36]
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I've said it before, but it looks to me as if SG has fed his co-chair with his own line on the fanbase. It'll take something major for us to change that
My earlier comment was, of course, tongue in cheek
I'm not even sure that, having been tasked by his father with stabilising the club and putting a business plan in place to move towards Dale becoming a true community club, CO understands the community. His life from birth has been very different from his father's. That's no criticism whatsoever (how can it be?) but simply a reflection on how a disconnect can occur
The question is: what can be done to change that? I've referenced the way in which the Golden Share issue impacts upon all this. It needs to happen, and whilst the Trust obtained an answer to my question by way of "being written into the articles of association" and "consulting other clubs who've done this" how long does that take? It could - and should - have happened by now. The takeover by the Ogdens took much less time [Post edited 7 Jan 9:27]
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| No coach to Stockton on 09:35 - Jan 7 with 2886 views | Rehsad |
| No coach to Stockton on 08:14 - Jan 7 by James1980 |
But the vast amount money put in to the club acts as a shield against any criticism. |
...and the conversion of that money into shares gives SG a 20%+ position in the Boardroom. It also makes it very difficult for the Trust (or another form of Supporter body) to slowly buy him out. I mention this latter point because it is one of the differences between us and York. The "Trust" at York has a 25% share ownership position. Judd referenced York in an earlier thread with reference to how their Golden Share works. York has incorporated the key points of a Golden Share into its Memorandum and Articles - but it actually goes further than that - it incorporates other elements throughout the M&A that gives the Trust significant say. Note that what I am not doing here is comparing our majority owners to that of the family controlling York. I do think though that if we want a 'trust' position to work then it probably requires all non Ogden family shares transferring to it. I'd be happy transfer mine if the Articles of such a Trust were sound - but it's easy for me to say that as I don't hold half a million plus shares. It would be a way forwards though.
Edit: I was typing this as DAlien was posting - my comments on the Golden Share were made before I saw his. [Post edited 7 Jan 10:02]
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| No coach to Stockton on 09:39 - Jan 7 with 2873 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
| No coach to Stockton on 06:27 - Jan 7 by TalkingSutty |
The sooner the Ogdens start smelling the coffee the better. Simon Gauge is not capable of running a football club, his track record since he became chairman will tell you that. Every decision he makes is a bad one and invariably it results in alienating the fans..the paying customers. He has no background in business and i hope to god the Ogden family aren't relying on him to engage with local councillors or influential people. His personality and communication skills are the opposite of what is required. The Ogdens need to seriously look at this and engage with their fellow Directors. As for the Trust, well they aren't fit for purpose neither, a nodding dog in Simon Gauge's back pocket. Things need to change and quickly, Cameron Ogden needs to start taking some responsibility and speaking to other people, including the fans...and i don't mean the fan in the Boardroom. As a outsider looking in you would suspect that sabotage was at play since the Ogden take over, that's how much regression we have seen with the stagnation of the club and the alienation of the fans by those purporting to be in charge of running the club. We expectrd the opposite and so did the Ogden family i think. It's time the other Directors all got a grip of this situation and the club. We need a new co- chairman. [Post edited 7 Jan 6:36]
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No TS, what we need is a professional chief exec (& deputy) who are answerable directly to Cameron & by extension Peter.
The current set up isn’t working. |  | | |
| No coach to Stockton on 10:16 - Jan 7 with 2791 views | TalkingSutty |
| No coach to Stockton on 08:14 - Jan 7 by James1980 |
But the vast amount money put in to the club acts as a shield against any criticism. |
The fans have also contributed vast amounts of money down the years, far in excess of what Simon Gauge and his family have. David Clough contributed hundreds of thousands of pounds of his own money and raised many hundreds of thousands of pounds. Past Chairman and Directors have contributed hundreds of thousands of pounds. All of this before Simon Gauge even knew Rochdale had a football club. We also have people like our ex Director Jamie Sarsfield and others such as Richard Knight who have tipped up big sums of money into the club. This isn't the Simon Gauge show James, it's a old historic club and it's still going because for over 100 years the fans, shareholders, chairman and Directors have all contributed financially. They've done that in good faith without taking back. Every season the fans contribute hundreds of thousands of pounds to the club by purchasing season tickets, merchandise, hospitality, sponsorship, food and beverages. Every season they do that and a lot of our fans have been doing this for 40/50/60 /70 years. Long before Simon Gauge was born. It's great that he put in a lot of money at a crucial time in our history but that doesn't give him a free pass to think that he owns the club and can do with it as he likes, because he doesn't and he can't. | | | |
| No coach to Stockton on 10:21 - Jan 7 with 2769 views | TalkingSutty |
| No coach to Stockton on 09:39 - Jan 7 by Plattyswrinklynuts |
No TS, what we need is a professional chief exec (& deputy) who are answerable directly to Cameron & by extension Peter.
The current set up isn’t working. |
Agree with that but i think Simon should be removed from his position. His contribution should be recognised in the same way as Jack the Kitman for his services to the club. We need people running the club who are passionate, dynamic and engaging. People with a proven track record. [Post edited 7 Jan 10:27]
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| No coach to Stockton on 11:07 - Jan 7 with 2656 views | Plattyswrinklynuts |
| No coach to Stockton on 10:21 - Jan 7 by TalkingSutty |
Agree with that but i think Simon should be removed from his position. His contribution should be recognised in the same way as Jack the Kitman for his services to the club. We need people running the club who are passionate, dynamic and engaging. People with a proven track record. [Post edited 7 Jan 10:27]
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Yes, we have zero chance of “project 5000” or anything else with the current arrangement. | | | |
| No coach to Stockton on 11:32 - Jan 7 with 2557 views | TalkingSutty |
| No coach to Stockton on 11:07 - Jan 7 by Plattyswrinklynuts |
Yes, we have zero chance of “project 5000” or anything else with the current arrangement. |
Project 500 is more realistic the way that the club is being run. If those in charge with the day to day running of the club find it such a struggle to communicate with the current fan base then they have next to zero chance of enthusing the public of Rochdale. You need a big character to do that, somebody with great communication skills and somebody who people naturally gravitate towards. There is nobody at the club who fits the criteria, certainly not the co chairman or the club secretary. That's not being disrespectful, it's just speaking the truth. [Post edited 7 Jan 11:33]
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| No coach to Stockton on 17:25 - Jan 7 with 1969 views | Dale_4_Life |
Project 5000 is a great initiative as its so specific and so easily measured.
I am hopeful that the club gets the dynamic people in place to make this happen in the not too distant future.
That said when the incentives start flooding in and the marketing machine starts we all have our part to play as well to get this moving forward.
When will the BOD lay out the creative and dynamic plan so we can all get right behind it?. | | | |
| No coach to Stockton on 17:46 - Jan 7 with 1875 views | 442Dale |
| No coach to Stockton on 17:25 - Jan 7 by Dale_4_Life |
Project 5000 is a great initiative as its so specific and so easily measured.
I am hopeful that the club gets the dynamic people in place to make this happen in the not too distant future.
That said when the incentives start flooding in and the marketing machine starts we all have our part to play as well to get this moving forward.
When will the BOD lay out the creative and dynamic plan so we can all get right behind it?. |
For the existing fans to play a part there would have to be a significant shift to illustrate that the existing fans actually matter. | |
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| No coach to Stockton on 21:29 - Jan 7 with 1541 views | 100notout |
| No coach to Stockton on 11:32 - Jan 7 by TalkingSutty |
Project 500 is more realistic the way that the club is being run. If those in charge with the day to day running of the club find it such a struggle to communicate with the current fan base then they have next to zero chance of enthusing the public of Rochdale. You need a big character to do that, somebody with great communication skills and somebody who people naturally gravitate towards. There is nobody at the club who fits the criteria, certainly not the co chairman or the club secretary. That's not being disrespectful, it's just speaking the truth. [Post edited 7 Jan 11:33]
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This is a great post. I'm sure CO has already got plenty in his in-tray but, if he hasn't done so already, he would do well to take some time out of his day to have a read of this message board.
It is an Aladdin's cave of information and would tell him exactly what the problems are and what he could do to address them. | |
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| No coach to Stockton on 22:41 - Jan 7 with 1391 views | judd |
| No coach to Stockton on 23:06 - Jan 6 by Dalenet |
So not only do the club think it is beneath them to apologise for the postponement again, they decided to switch the home game to a ground over 100 miles away and don't think they have any responsibility to help fans get there.
The sooner we have a football regulator in place the better. Our fan engagement is worse than ever. |
Your first paragraph sums it up perfectly.
Unwilling or unable to think outside a waterlogged box. | |
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| No coach to Stockton on 11:39 - Jan 8 with 844 views | Boss_Hog |
I'm curious why people are so quick to criticise the club at every opportunity? Don't get me wrong, there have been ample mistakes made and I've often shaken my head at some of the decisions they've taken, but sometimes things genuinely are out of their control. Take the Stockton game for example? The pitch is a mess, not necessarily through any fault of people running the club but these are the cards they've been dealt.
As fans, do we think the club genuinely wanted to switch the game to Stockton? We are bashing the club for not apologising for doing it, bashing them for not putting on a coach, all trivial matters in the overall scheme of things IMHO. The coaches, for example, aren't heavily used - no matter who puts them on - so realistically how many people would want to go on one to Stockton on a Weds night? The club will already be losing money having to travel all that way - as will fans who opt to go and support the team and all credit to those that do - but at some point you have to cut your loses. I'll cut mine by not going to the game but I would have gone had it been at home.
What we should be bashing them for is the lack of clarity/images of the pitch as it stands. An open and honest appraisal with transparency would aid fan engagement as they've nothing to hide but it would be helpful to know what the plan is between now and May.
I'm far from a club apologist, far from it, but I just think we are critising for the sake of it. | | | |
| No coach to Stockton on 11:59 - Jan 8 with 801 views | dawlishdale |
| No coach to Stockton on 11:39 - Jan 8 by Boss_Hog |
I'm curious why people are so quick to criticise the club at every opportunity? Don't get me wrong, there have been ample mistakes made and I've often shaken my head at some of the decisions they've taken, but sometimes things genuinely are out of their control. Take the Stockton game for example? The pitch is a mess, not necessarily through any fault of people running the club but these are the cards they've been dealt.
As fans, do we think the club genuinely wanted to switch the game to Stockton? We are bashing the club for not apologising for doing it, bashing them for not putting on a coach, all trivial matters in the overall scheme of things IMHO. The coaches, for example, aren't heavily used - no matter who puts them on - so realistically how many people would want to go on one to Stockton on a Weds night? The club will already be losing money having to travel all that way - as will fans who opt to go and support the team and all credit to those that do - but at some point you have to cut your loses. I'll cut mine by not going to the game but I would have gone had it been at home.
What we should be bashing them for is the lack of clarity/images of the pitch as it stands. An open and honest appraisal with transparency would aid fan engagement as they've nothing to hide but it would be helpful to know what the plan is between now and May.
I'm far from a club apologist, far from it, but I just think we are critising for the sake of it. |
It's part of a general frustration that I have (thus, can only speak for myself) about not feeling wanted or appreciated by the Board.
It's not down to one or two instances; this has been rumbling on now for a year or so.
I could name many things that contribute to the way I feel, but those in the Boardroom (be they the ones who put a great deal of their own money in to save us, or the ones who have taken a seat on the Board in return for services given to the club) should take heed. Without the supporters; there is no club.
At a time when everyone should have a huge amount of goodwill towards the club and the Ogden investment...something remains of the old school "them and us" mentality of the past toxic Board.
And sadly, I feel that, as predicted, the Trust Board representative has flown too close to the sun and is no longer any use to the people whom he is supposed to represent. | | | |
| No coach to Stockton on 12:07 - Jan 8 with 759 views | Dalenet |
| No coach to Stockton on 11:39 - Jan 8 by Boss_Hog |
I'm curious why people are so quick to criticise the club at every opportunity? Don't get me wrong, there have been ample mistakes made and I've often shaken my head at some of the decisions they've taken, but sometimes things genuinely are out of their control. Take the Stockton game for example? The pitch is a mess, not necessarily through any fault of people running the club but these are the cards they've been dealt.
As fans, do we think the club genuinely wanted to switch the game to Stockton? We are bashing the club for not apologising for doing it, bashing them for not putting on a coach, all trivial matters in the overall scheme of things IMHO. The coaches, for example, aren't heavily used - no matter who puts them on - so realistically how many people would want to go on one to Stockton on a Weds night? The club will already be losing money having to travel all that way - as will fans who opt to go and support the team and all credit to those that do - but at some point you have to cut your loses. I'll cut mine by not going to the game but I would have gone had it been at home.
What we should be bashing them for is the lack of clarity/images of the pitch as it stands. An open and honest appraisal with transparency would aid fan engagement as they've nothing to hide but it would be helpful to know what the plan is between now and May.
I'm far from a club apologist, far from it, but I just think we are critising for the sake of it. |
I couldn't disagree with you more. We have a dwindling fan base, we have a problem with a pitch that we have known about since October and haven't done enough to protect it. That is why people are angry. The fans are taken for granted. They were happy to take our season ticket money and some us spent thousands on shares in a vain hope to save the club - but yet we are taken for granted. I don't know how many thousands you spend on your trips to Spotland, but I have wasted a fortune this year trying to 'support' my team only to not see a game. Why shouldn't we criticise when the club can't say sorry, or tell us why they didn't protect the pitch. Would any of our decent CEOs over the past 20 years leave us in this vacuum? No. And any decent CEO would have acknowledged the embarrasment and at least offered to put a couple of free coaches to Stockton tonight to at least get some fans there to what is supposed to be a home game. The club hasn't even made the refunds of the tickets from Saturday as promised as yet.
It would seem your values and mine are completely different and we will just have to agree to disagree. I have simply had enough. If I stopped turning up tomorrow they wouldn't even notice. I know things happen - it is how it is dealt with that counts. Football is notoriously poor with how it deals with paying fans - and the planned football regulator is long overdue. Bring one in, make clubs accountable, and lets change the game for the better. I hope Murray resigns from the Board as he is on a hiding to nothing and I hope that one day the new owners will outline a vision that might bring Team Rochdale back. [Post edited 8 Jan 18:19]
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| No coach to Stockton on 12:48 - Jan 8 with 620 views | Boss_Hog |
Debate is good and it is fine to disagree.
How do you know the club haven't done enough to protect the pitch? For the purposes of clarity, I have seen the pitch and its condition first-hand as I live close to Spotland. I'm not trying to pick holes, I'm just wondering if the club had a problem with the pitch in October as you say, why wouldn't they do their utmost to protect it?
Surely that is absolute basics.
I'd also state that if you think a Football Regulator will change things in terms of club's communication to fans, again we'll have to agree to disagree., [Post edited 8 Jan 12:49]
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| No coach to Stockton on 12:53 - Jan 8 with 594 views | dawlishdale |
| No coach to Stockton on 12:48 - Jan 8 by Boss_Hog |
Debate is good and it is fine to disagree.
How do you know the club haven't done enough to protect the pitch? For the purposes of clarity, I have seen the pitch and its condition first-hand as I live close to Spotland. I'm not trying to pick holes, I'm just wondering if the club had a problem with the pitch in October as you say, why wouldn't they do their utmost to protect it?
Surely that is absolute basics.
I'd also state that if you think a Football Regulator will change things in terms of club's communication to fans, again we'll have to agree to disagree., [Post edited 8 Jan 12:49]
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I'll answer on behalf of everyone who hasn't got access to the pitch. We don't know. The last update was before the last postponed game, and it showed the pitch uncovered. The one before showed two very small rain covers which between them probably only protected 10-15% of the playing area. That's all we've had.
Surely ; given the awful weather we have had, someone at the club could take half an hour to update supporters? | | | |
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