| The spine is there, the rest is not working 17:03 - Sep 21 with 4582 views | Hunterhoop |
We appear hard to beat.
Performance down the spine are strong:
Nardi
JCS & Cook
Field
Frey
They are all playing well. They are doing their job.
The rest is not right, and frankly Cifuentes needs to work it out.
We tried to play out the same way for 90 mins today with zero success. We did not create a chance from playing out from the back and rarely even broke the half way line. Pragmatism might be required.
Our “ballers” need to uo their game. Madsen is coasting and half asleep off the ball. Andersen is way below his level. Dembele had a great assist but offered little else. Smyth’s end product continues to be poor. Lloyd is green. Saito was good today but he blows hot and cold. Even Varane came on and was rolled twice in midfield being the wrong side.
A lot do the squad needs to seriously step up. They are performing below their known ability or expectation. We were far too static today and far too cautious on the ball. And that wasn’t on Field or the centre halves. Our ball players were not finding space to receive it. They simply did not do their jobs. And off the ball they were abysmal.
Cifuentes has not worked out our best team yet. But the spine is there…
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| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 17:07 - Sep 21 with 4525 views | mart_Goblin |
It feels like everything is on hold until Chair returns .
Like, until he’s back, we won’t know the way this team fits together.
One or 2 not fitting in or playing well enough . Of course it will take time but they should be moulding together better than they are |  | | |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 17:27 - Sep 21 with 4349 views | Antti_Heinola |
Couldn’t make the game today but sounds like similar issues to the whole season. I’m not too worried though. We haven’t lost since the opening day and have shown character and work ethic in every match. Not clicking and a bit ponderous, but these things are a bit easier to improve. Its really a new team out there and we’ve been competitive in all games, against some difficult opposition, particularly away.
As Simmo said on the pod we need to recognise all this and trust the squad will develop. Varane has his best game by miles on tuesday. Frey has improved dramatically. We could do with some clean sheets but as Hunter says the spine is decent. It’ll be slow but I think we’ll see progress. |  |
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| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 17:53 - Sep 21 with 4185 views | baz_qpr |
I thought today was a classic 12:30 on Saturday performance. We lacked intensity, the crowd lack intensity. We can't high press against a team that goes long all the time either.
I thought the inversion of Paal into Centre Midfield 1st half to give us an extra attacker worked against us, the ball stuck in the middle of the park going between the defence and the defensive midfield with 5 fairly static players in front of them with no space to work made it difficult Millwall on the other hand whilst direct were pulling our defence all over the place (especially on transition) and ultimately our goal came from the one time we broke from deep with space for Dembele to run into.
I would also say with Madsen, Anderson, Dembele and Saito you had 4 quite passive players all technicians in a game where we need to win the right to play, and none of those really looking to get in behind always coming deep so we became predictable.
2nd half the subs actually made us worse, neither Smyth or Lloyd got into the game at all. Neither managed to stretch them and both Varane and Field were then too deep.
tbh we did well to come away with a draw at half time I thought this was a game we would lose.
We need to play to our strengths and that has to be working out ways to get Dembele and Saito/Chair/Smyth into space to run ahead of them. We are at our best as well when we mix it up a bit more, far too predictable today.
Having said all that Anderson, Dunne and Smyth had particularly poor performances.
Frey MOTM by a country mile, great goal well taken |  | | |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 17:58 - Sep 21 with 4149 views | SimonJames |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 17:27 - Sep 21 by Antti_Heinola |
Couldn’t make the game today but sounds like similar issues to the whole season. I’m not too worried though. We haven’t lost since the opening day and have shown character and work ethic in every match. Not clicking and a bit ponderous, but these things are a bit easier to improve. Its really a new team out there and we’ve been competitive in all games, against some difficult opposition, particularly away.
As Simmo said on the pod we need to recognise all this and trust the squad will develop. Varane has his best game by miles on tuesday. Frey has improved dramatically. We could do with some clean sheets but as Hunter says the spine is decent. It’ll be slow but I think we’ll see progress. |
We haven't lost since the opening day, but all of the teams above us from 7-13 have lost at least two games.
We are hard to beat, but when are we going to look like a team that wins games? |  |
| 100% of people who drink water will die. |
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| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 18:01 - Sep 21 with 4131 views | WadR |
Wholeheartedly agree with nearly all of this.
However, while I'm not calling for him to be dropped or calling him bad, I thought Field was really poor today and the central midfield was the biggest problem we had today. He was caught in possession multiple times including in the phase just before our equaliser where they could've made it two nil. 64% pass completion! Only 3 long balls so it wasn't even a case of bravely trying probing or direct passes.
And one excellent vintage block in the second half aside, I thought he was unusually off the boil out of possession. Got his feet in a mess to give up that free kick in the second half.
Agree we were far too static but think Dembele made some really intelligent runs and was always offering for the ball. He also matched Watmore, sprinting back 60/70 yards in the second half - so put in his fair share of graft. |  | | |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 18:24 - Sep 21 with 4010 views | Pdog |
I'd like to see Santos or Ashby given a run at RB to give some more balance, threat, energy and options going forward.
As much as i love Jimmy, a fine stand-in job and great backs-to-the-wall option, it's never quite looked natural. |  | | |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 18:46 - Sep 21 with 3900 views | WatfordR |
The points about being static and too cautious are key. While the back four are trying to play out, look beyond them and our lot are often just stood watching. It's no wonder the back four look cautious. The midfielders have simply got to move the opposition around and look to create space for others. That's not just a problem today but for a number of seasons imo.
On the plus side, I thought our goal was absolutely the best thing about the game today, quality from Dembele, Saito and Frey, the sort of goal I can't remember us scoring for a very long time. Frey's movement and finish were just top drawer.
Like a few others on here, I feel this season will all be about how we finsih, not how we start. |  | | |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 19:37 - Sep 21 with 3726 views | Spaceman_P |
what's the deal with the 12:30 slump at loftus road? it's like we as fans collectively become a morgue.
We were buzzing last year, away support even this year has been brilliant.... but at home especially at 12:30.... it's like a wake. |  | | |
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| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 20:28 - Sep 21 with 3559 views | Hunterhoop |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 18:46 - Sep 21 by WatfordR |
The points about being static and too cautious are key. While the back four are trying to play out, look beyond them and our lot are often just stood watching. It's no wonder the back four look cautious. The midfielders have simply got to move the opposition around and look to create space for others. That's not just a problem today but for a number of seasons imo.
On the plus side, I thought our goal was absolutely the best thing about the game today, quality from Dembele, Saito and Frey, the sort of goal I can't remember us scoring for a very long time. Frey's movement and finish were just top drawer.
Like a few others on here, I feel this season will all be about how we finsih, not how we start. |
Frey looks like a top all round number 9. Hold up play strong. Won’t get bullied. A threat from crosses and in behind. He’s not great at anything but he is good at a lot. We might have found our main man up top though. Crowd definitely warming to him. | | | |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 20:38 - Sep 21 with 3501 views | stainrods_elbow |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 18:24 - Sep 21 by Pdog |
I'd like to see Santos or Ashby given a run at RB to give some more balance, threat, energy and options going forward.
As much as i love Jimmy, a fine stand-in job and great backs-to-the-wall option, it's never quite looked natural. |
Think I'd agree with that, as Santos is improving and clearly likes to get forward. I can foresee Smyth operating well with him on that side, with Saito working the other flank. |  |
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| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 20:41 - Sep 21 with 3506 views | Rangersw12 |
Wise words...... | | | |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 20:45 - Sep 21 with 3471 views | QPunkR |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 17:58 - Sep 21 by SimonJames |
We haven't lost since the opening day, but all of the teams above us from 7-13 have lost at least two games.
We are hard to beat, but when are we going to look like a team that wins games? |
Exactly that. We haven't looked like a winning team for about 80+% of the season so far. Very lackadaisical |  |
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| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 20:56 - Sep 21 with 3435 views | bosh67 |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 20:45 - Sep 21 by QPunkR |
Exactly that. We haven't looked like a winning team for about 80+% of the season so far. Very lackadaisical |
Yet we don't lose matches from losing positions. Let's not forget that. In fact we don't lose many games at all. |  |
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| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 21:19 - Sep 21 with 3363 views | Antti_Heinola |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 20:45 - Sep 21 by QPunkR |
Exactly that. We haven't looked like a winning team for about 80+% of the season so far. Very lackadaisical |
lackadaisical is very harsh imo. lacking determination or enthusiasm? i'm not getting that, at all. Quite the opposite, considering we've come from behind in almost every game this season. | |
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| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 09:24 - Sep 23 with 2556 views | TheChef |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 17:07 - Sep 21 by mart_Goblin |
It feels like everything is on hold until Chair returns .
Like, until he’s back, we won’t know the way this team fits together.
One or 2 not fitting in or playing well enough . Of course it will take time but they should be moulding together better than they are |
Yes arguably Chair is the missing piece, but even with his time out it'll take him a few games to get up to speed.
The conundrum remains what is the best attacking three combination playing behind Frey; and then who is best suited to playing alongside Field as the DCM two?
I trust Cifuentes to work it out. |  |
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| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 09:35 - Sep 23 with 2516 views | JamesB1979 |
I think we look a much better side with Colback in it. Andersen has been the biggest disappointment. All the new guys need to be given time. Varrane is improving game by game. I think (maybe it’s more hope) that there’s a really good player there. The others have been inconsistent. That is expected and is why we need patience. | | | |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 09:53 - Sep 23 with 2340 views | loftus77 |
My only Machiavellian thought this morning, which others must have had.
This slightly underwhelming (?), ever-so-steady start does have the effect of keeping Marti/Xavi under the parapet, no? Is it all part of a data-enabled Nourry-inspired cunning plan? Those Southampton, Wolves and Everton vacancies are imminent imho. | | | |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 11:43 - Sep 23 with 2153 views | davman |
Agree that our CBs and the current CF are not the problem and agree that defensively Field is part of a strong spine. However, offensively the problem is everywhere in front of the two CBs and behind the CF.
As said on another thread, no-one DEMANDS the ball and then progresses it. Sadly, aside from Yellow Card Colback, I am yet to see anyone fulfill that role in this team.
They are also frightened to take quick goal kicks as we are not in our structure. Guess what, guys; neither is the opposition so that might be a perfect idea!
And if Frey gets injured, we'll have the spine of an earth worm. |  |
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| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 12:08 - Sep 23 with 2065 views | Hunterhoop |
It isn’t just players showing for a pass to feet although I completely agree that Madsen and Andersen failed to do this on Saturday anywhere near enough given their role in the side. Chair will obviously help in this regard because it’s probably his greatest strength.
However, I think the bigger issue is how quickly we try to move it. Dunne and Paal repeatedly took 3-4 touches (Dunne especially) which completely kills any ability to play out. It allows the press to cut off the ball down the line to feet of your wide player.
Equally, JCS repeatedly turned down passes forward to Saito, Frey, and occasionally Madsen which were on, but required half decent execution (20-30 yard passes) and a good touch by the receiver. Instead it’s back across to Cook or out to Paal, but so conservatively he has to turn his shoulders to face JCS meaning he needs an extra touch to play it forward.
Paal also is incredibly conservative in possession. In the first half especially, Saito, who had the beating of his full back, came short into space to receive a ball to feet so he could turn several times and Paal turned it down and went back inside. Millwall were coming across to close the passing lane down but a good pass would have beaten the press (worst result was a throw in to us) and got to Saito.
Perhaps he was wary of Saito retaining it? Therein lies another problem. I think the players don’t trust each other yet. With the top players we’ve had in recent decades (Ferdinand, Sinclair, Buszacky, Adel, Eze) their teammates want to get them the ball whenever the can as soon as they can. Chair is someone that fits that mould who is trusted today. But I’m not sure the back 4 and Field trust the rest of them not to cough it up immediately and create a counter for the opposition. So we turn down passes that are on.
I/We obviously want the back 4 and Field to be bolder. I think the full backs can certainly be braver with the touchline for support and because they are being extremely slow in possession as things stand. However, I think in general the team need to gain more trust in each other.
Dembele is obviously the player you would think most of the team would have the most confidence in to control the ball and turn without losing it. And for that reason, I think he needs to start central.
I’d play Field and Colback/Varane, with Dembele at 10, Saito on the left, and then either Andersen or Smyth out wide right depending on the oppo and their form. | | | |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 12:25 - Sep 23 with 1985 views | TheChef |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 12:08 - Sep 23 by Hunterhoop |
It isn’t just players showing for a pass to feet although I completely agree that Madsen and Andersen failed to do this on Saturday anywhere near enough given their role in the side. Chair will obviously help in this regard because it’s probably his greatest strength.
However, I think the bigger issue is how quickly we try to move it. Dunne and Paal repeatedly took 3-4 touches (Dunne especially) which completely kills any ability to play out. It allows the press to cut off the ball down the line to feet of your wide player.
Equally, JCS repeatedly turned down passes forward to Saito, Frey, and occasionally Madsen which were on, but required half decent execution (20-30 yard passes) and a good touch by the receiver. Instead it’s back across to Cook or out to Paal, but so conservatively he has to turn his shoulders to face JCS meaning he needs an extra touch to play it forward.
Paal also is incredibly conservative in possession. In the first half especially, Saito, who had the beating of his full back, came short into space to receive a ball to feet so he could turn several times and Paal turned it down and went back inside. Millwall were coming across to close the passing lane down but a good pass would have beaten the press (worst result was a throw in to us) and got to Saito.
Perhaps he was wary of Saito retaining it? Therein lies another problem. I think the players don’t trust each other yet. With the top players we’ve had in recent decades (Ferdinand, Sinclair, Buszacky, Adel, Eze) their teammates want to get them the ball whenever the can as soon as they can. Chair is someone that fits that mould who is trusted today. But I’m not sure the back 4 and Field trust the rest of them not to cough it up immediately and create a counter for the opposition. So we turn down passes that are on.
I/We obviously want the back 4 and Field to be bolder. I think the full backs can certainly be braver with the touchline for support and because they are being extremely slow in possession as things stand. However, I think in general the team need to gain more trust in each other.
Dembele is obviously the player you would think most of the team would have the most confidence in to control the ball and turn without losing it. And for that reason, I think he needs to start central.
I’d play Field and Colback/Varane, with Dembele at 10, Saito on the left, and then either Andersen or Smyth out wide right depending on the oppo and their form. |
Agree on your last para for now - but what about when Chair is fit? | |
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| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 12:31 - Sep 23 with 1953 views | Hunterhoop |
Chair plays on the left, so he comes in for Saito.
Can Saito be repurposed to the right? Not sure.
Chair could play down the middle and Dembele play right with Saito left, but Chair had very rarely played there for us, so presume he’d rather play on the left to cut in. | | | |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 12:57 - Sep 23 with 1905 views | E15Hoop |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 12:31 - Sep 23 by Hunterhoop |
Chair plays on the left, so he comes in for Saito.
Can Saito be repurposed to the right? Not sure.
Chair could play down the middle and Dembele play right with Saito left, but Chair had very rarely played there for us, so presume he’d rather play on the left to cut in. |
You have to think that the instruction has been coming from Marti to get it to Dembele (and/or Chair when he's back) as quickly as possible, as worst case scenario would surely be that they both get targeted in the same way that Eze and Grealish did at this level.
If nothing else, that buys you a whole clump of cheap free kicks and the chance to shuffle everyone a few yards up the pitch, instead of suffocating poor Nardi, Cook, Clark-Salter, Dunne and paal the whole time. | | | |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 11:17 - Sep 24 with 1356 views | QPunkR |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 21:19 - Sep 21 by Antti_Heinola |
lackadaisical is very harsh imo. lacking determination or enthusiasm? i'm not getting that, at all. Quite the opposite, considering we've come from behind in almost every game this season. |
But like I said one of the match threads (I forget which - could apply to a few games already this season!), I'm not getting a never-say-die spirit from this team. The reason that we're coming from behind is that we lack any attacking intent before conceding a goal, from my perspective, and then only up our game and go for the opposition at that point. | |
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| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 12:09 - Sep 24 with 1275 views | E15Hoop |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 11:17 - Sep 24 by QPunkR |
But like I said one of the match threads (I forget which - could apply to a few games already this season!), I'm not getting a never-say-die spirit from this team. The reason that we're coming from behind is that we lack any attacking intent before conceding a goal, from my perspective, and then only up our game and go for the opposition at that point. |
Sounds like they all need to go for a Big Night Out, organised by Jimmy Dunne.. | | | |
| The spine is there, the rest is not working on 13:43 - Sep 24 with 981 views | Benny_the_Ball |
Great post, Hunter. Like most complex problems there are usually a number of issues at play but you've highlighted a few key ones.
Building anything to last requires solid foundations so it makes sense to focus first on the spine. This was lacking when Warnock came in but the additions of Kenny, Hill, Orr, Derry, and Mackie coupled with Helguson provided the spine that allowed the likes of Faurlin, Taarabt, Ephraim and Routledge to express themselves. Fortunately for Neil, once he'd bolstered the spine and unlocked Taarabt's potential everything just clicked into place. It isn't going to happen overnight for Marti as this time around QPR have introduced many players with little to no EFL experience and the team currently lacks the guile and know-how of their aforementioned predecessors.
In addition, for me Marti appears to be at a tactical crossroads. Last season he clearly decided to dilute his favoured progressive style for a more pragmatic approach in order to achieve safety. Despite bringing a serious upturn in form, this season he looks more keen to stick with his philosophy. Whilst I understand this, we don't quite have the personnel or experience to systematically execute this philosophy week in, week out across 90+ minutes. Hence, the inconsistent performances. In particular, the midfield remains a concern. Playing from the back through the lines requires midfielders who are comfortable receiving the ball on the turn in tight spaces and can break lines by passing forward or dribbling past players. We don't currently have that Faurlin, Francis, Taarabt or Rowlands type player. What we do have is a clutch of number 10s who are either being deployed on the flanks or in the hole behind Frey. This creates a disconnect resulting in defenders and/or goalkeeper being forced to play it long when pressed high.
This is why I think we're a better counter-attacking team and struggle at home where the onus is on us to force to issue. The goal against Millwall is a case in point. This was a counter attack that stemmed from Cook breaking up a Millwall attack and the back tracking Anderson playing a forward pass into space. On this occasion, the team was able to exploit the space because Millwall were still largely committed to their previous attack. You're not always going to be afforded that space, particularly at home where you're typically facing 2 banks, something which QPR struggle to break down.
That all being said, there are some encouraging signs that with time and confidence the team can eventually flourish. Much of top-level sport is mental and this has already been on acute display at QPR this season where the team has recovered many losing positions. Apart from fighting spirit, this demonstrates that when the players really apply themselves, believe and are brave, they are capable of executing Marti's gameplan. It remains to be seen whether they can progress to a team executing consistently week in, week out, over the full 90+ minutes, regardless of the scoreline.
In the short term, Chair's return should hopefully help with this, as he's brave on the ball and forward thinking. His inclusion could also open the door for Dembele playing more often in the 10 role where he's been more effective. In the long term, I remain glass half full, provided Cifuentes sticks around to complete the project. With that in mind, it would be nice to have Marti at the forum so fans can understand his thinking and the direction of travel. As Clive said, this would buy time and empathy from the fans. Sadly, I suspect we're going to have to make do with decoding Nourry's convoluted messages. |  | | |
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