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The return of National Service 07:37 - May 26 with 5758 viewsGwyn737

New Tory policy:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpddxy9r4mdo

What’s next? Milk having to be delivered in bottles by a milkman? Penny sweets that actually cost 1p?

It’s gone ‘The Thick of It’ very early.

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The return of National Service on 09:40 - May 28 with 1135 viewscontroversial_jack

The return of National Service on 19:21 - May 27 by AnotherJohn

I'm not sure about this particular scheme which looks like a rabbit pulled from a hat, but I do worry about what appears to be a widespread disdain for military service and a perception that strong defences are an outdated concept. It is as though too many of us now live is this cosy liberal bubble, in which we assume we are protected by something called the international rule-based order and war in Europe is impossible. Actually, outside the bubble there are powerful authoritarian states who don't subscribe to this liberal order, and may well seek to do us harm. In many other countries a period of military service, or at least a period of training, is mandatory because governments realise that national defence is a real issue. I don't think there is anything old fashioned about that. Nor if push comes to shove will participation be optional.


This country would be better off keeping out of conflicts and stop following the Yanks in their failed proxy wars instead of wanting our kids as cannon fodder.
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The return of National Service on 10:11 - May 28 with 1102 viewsoldtownjack

The return of National Service on 19:21 - May 27 by AnotherJohn

I'm not sure about this particular scheme which looks like a rabbit pulled from a hat, but I do worry about what appears to be a widespread disdain for military service and a perception that strong defences are an outdated concept. It is as though too many of us now live is this cosy liberal bubble, in which we assume we are protected by something called the international rule-based order and war in Europe is impossible. Actually, outside the bubble there are powerful authoritarian states who don't subscribe to this liberal order, and may well seek to do us harm. In many other countries a period of military service, or at least a period of training, is mandatory because governments realise that national defence is a real issue. I don't think there is anything old fashioned about that. Nor if push comes to shove will participation be optional.


Which is why it is so disgraceful, what this Govt has done to our armed forces since 2010.
[Post edited 28 May 10:11]

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The return of National Service on 12:55 - May 28 with 1049 viewsmajorraglan

The return of National Service on 09:40 - May 28 by controversial_jack

This country would be better off keeping out of conflicts and stop following the Yanks in their failed proxy wars instead of wanting our kids as cannon fodder.


Nobody in the west wants to see children packed off to war and used as canon fodder, but there are times we have to stand up to aggressors and tyrants, you know 1939, Ukraine etc etc, if we don’t we’ll just be steamrollered in to servitude.
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The return of National Service on 15:47 - May 28 with 1003 viewscontroversial_jack

The return of National Service on 12:55 - May 28 by majorraglan

Nobody in the west wants to see children packed off to war and used as canon fodder, but there are times we have to stand up to aggressors and tyrants, you know 1939, Ukraine etc etc, if we don’t we’ll just be steamrollered in to servitude.


It's a very different situation now though. NATO is the tyrant and aggressor
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The return of National Service on 18:01 - May 28 with 962 viewssons_of_omri

The return of National Service on 12:55 - May 28 by majorraglan

Nobody in the west wants to see children packed off to war and used as canon fodder, but there are times we have to stand up to aggressors and tyrants, you know 1939, Ukraine etc etc, if we don’t we’ll just be steamrollered in to servitude.


Do you really think Russia wants to control Europe?? Seriously? They have the upper hand economically with oil and gas but isn’t that a reason to befriend them rather than box them into a corner? Pariah states will only ever reform when there are peaceful trade negotiations to be had.

The war in Ukraine would have been over a year or more ago had Boris not interfered. How many lives on both sides have been lost since?
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The return of National Service on 20:16 - May 28 with 920 viewsFlashberryjack

The return of National Service on 15:47 - May 28 by controversial_jack

It's a very different situation now though. NATO is the tyrant and aggressor


[Post edited 28 May 20:19]

Hello
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The return of National Service on 21:25 - May 28 with 866 viewsReslovenSwan1

The return of National Service on 18:01 - May 28 by sons_of_omri

Do you really think Russia wants to control Europe?? Seriously? They have the upper hand economically with oil and gas but isn’t that a reason to befriend them rather than box them into a corner? Pariah states will only ever reform when there are peaceful trade negotiations to be had.

The war in Ukraine would have been over a year or more ago had Boris not interfered. How many lives on both sides have been lost since?


And Kherson Lyman Izyum etc and an area of Scotland under Russian control. Germany helped build the new pipeline and it was a joint effort,

The policy of befriendment was used as leverage not friendship. Russian tried to freeze Germans into surrender. Germany told them to 'eff off'.

Russian is way to big to be boxed in. All the gates to Europe were open. Ukrainians and at least young Belorussian want to live in European style democracies but prefer not to have to fight Russia to get it.

Wise sage since Toshack era
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The return of National Service on 08:28 - May 29 with 764 viewsBoundy

The return of National Service on 10:11 - May 28 by oldtownjack

Which is why it is so disgraceful, what this Govt has done to our armed forces since 2010.
[Post edited 28 May 10:11]


The dismantling of our armed forces isn't' a new policy and has been occurring since the 70's ( from a 176,00), under both Labour and and the Torys watch, yes there have been cuts ( far too many) but combine this with a poor recruitment take up , a more stringent medical criteria ( ( a fat nation is an unfit nation) along with a generation who baulk at the idea of any authority being imposed on them.

"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."

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The return of National Service on 08:59 - May 29 with 743 viewsonehunglow

The return of National Service on 08:28 - May 29 by Boundy

The dismantling of our armed forces isn't' a new policy and has been occurring since the 70's ( from a 176,00), under both Labour and and the Torys watch, yes there have been cuts ( far too many) but combine this with a poor recruitment take up , a more stringent medical criteria ( ( a fat nation is an unfit nation) along with a generation who baulk at the idea of any authority being imposed on them.


Kids now not too keen on being told what to do

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The return of National Service on 09:08 - May 29 with 734 viewsGwyn737

I’m always surprised when you think about all that’s gone wrong in this country, why it’s gone wrong and who caused it, it’s young people who get the blame and are charged with sorting it out.

The vast majority of young people are hard working, positive members of society.

You wouldn’t think so from reading this website.
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The return of National Service on 09:16 - May 29 with 724 viewsonehunglow

The return of National Service on 09:08 - May 29 by Gwyn737

I’m always surprised when you think about all that’s gone wrong in this country, why it’s gone wrong and who caused it, it’s young people who get the blame and are charged with sorting it out.

The vast majority of young people are hard working, positive members of society.

You wouldn’t think so from reading this website.


Vast.? Who says so ?
I do feel for them though .
Many are ignorant and insular
Christ, they live by device

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The return of National Service on 09:27 - May 29 with 719 viewscontroversial_jack

The return of National Service on 08:59 - May 29 by onehunglow

Kids now not too keen on being told what to do


They are wiser than previous generations
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The return of National Service on 09:52 - May 29 with 693 viewsGwyn737

The return of National Service on 09:16 - May 29 by onehunglow

Vast.? Who says so ?
I do feel for them though .
Many are ignorant and insular
Christ, they live by device


That’s helps my point.
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The return of National Service on 11:31 - May 29 with 648 viewsBoundy

The return of National Service on 09:52 - May 29 by Gwyn737

That’s helps my point.


Ignorant by choice or bad schooling ?

"In a free society, the State is the servant of the people—not the master."

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The return of National Service on 11:36 - May 29 with 643 viewsGwyn737

The return of National Service on 11:31 - May 29 by Boundy

Ignorant by choice or bad schooling ?


Some are. Most aren’t.

Maybe some of the reactions are because of being told constantly by older people how awful they all are?

Every generation seems to say this about the next.
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The return of National Service on 11:51 - May 29 with 632 viewsJumpingJackFlash

The return of National Service on 11:36 - May 29 by Gwyn737

Some are. Most aren’t.

Maybe some of the reactions are because of being told constantly by older people how awful they all are?

Every generation seems to say this about the next.


I agree. At 67 my generation is in power and has been for some time.

What a terrible mess my generation has made of things for young people going forward.
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The return of National Service on 12:26 - May 29 with 609 viewsGwyn737

The return of National Service on 11:51 - May 29 by JumpingJackFlash

I agree. At 67 my generation is in power and has been for some time.

What a terrible mess my generation has made of things for young people going forward.


And in the initial polling of the national service policy, it that generation that are the keenest to volunteer others for volunteering.
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The return of National Service on 23:44 - May 29 with 542 viewsmajorraglan

The return of National Service on 08:28 - May 29 by Boundy

The dismantling of our armed forces isn't' a new policy and has been occurring since the 70's ( from a 176,00), under both Labour and and the Torys watch, yes there have been cuts ( far too many) but combine this with a poor recruitment take up , a more stringent medical criteria ( ( a fat nation is an unfit nation) along with a generation who baulk at the idea of any authority being imposed on them.


The dismantling of our armed forces has accelerated significantly over the last 14 years and staffing levels are bumping along at historic lows. I know the Conservatives traditionally claim to be the party of law and order and the protectors of the armed forces, but looking at things in terms of budgets that doesn’t seem to equate with reality.

In cash terms, spending on defence peaked under John Major in the early 90’s, it then started falling back before it started to increase under Tony Blair in 1997 (£39.9bn) peaking at £73.5bn in 2007. During the Labour years, spending on defence was around 2.5% of GDP.
Defence spending then fell back under Cameron/ Osborne and then May to £52bn (1.9% of GDP) in 2017 before starting to creep up.

Defence spending in 2022 was £69bn and around 2% of GDP - this is still lower than it was under Labour in 2007 and less than the 2.5% figure the Trumpster wants to see across NATO.

If Labour’s defence budget of £39.9bn from 1997 had kept pace with inflation, then we’d now be spending £76.2bn on defence per year.
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