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Ah, February 2nd, 2024 - Groundhog Day in Punxsutawney, a spectacle where, in a twist of fate, the groundhog saw the shadow of Little Jim McNulty and scurried back to its den. This act, folks, is the epitome of doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different outcome. So, brace yourselves for six more weeks of:
Execs weaving tales of doom and gloom, waxing lyrical about our sheer luck in having not just a team, but the right to have a team. Or was it the right to have the right to a team? It starts to sound like one of those movies that leaves you with a migraine.
Manager Little Jim, spinning tales so thick with clichés it feels like he graduated top of his class from the University of Baffle-speak, majoring in Chocolate Box Clichés 101.
Tactics? More like tip-toe tactics. Playing as if they're scared to dirty their kit because someone used the last of the Fairy Non-Bio. Seriously, at one point D'Mani Mellor was charging down their keeper, and I thought, "Here we go, it's on!" But no, after five passes, we're back with our defense, playing it as safe as a John Lewis display mannequin.
And the commentators? Listening to them is like tuning into the Chinese Communist Party's spokesperson — always on message. How about some guest commentators who sound like actual fans? A bit of Northern bluntness and humor wouldn't go amiss. There was a moment when D'Mani Mellor was subbed off, and the commentator actually said, "Great game from D'Mani, put in a real shift, no assists, no goals, but great effort." Really? If that's the bar for greatness, then I'm an undiscovered football prodigy.
So, it seems we're in for six more weeks of the team going through the motions, standing around like showroom dummies, probably daydreaming they were Manchester City.
Maybe I should've taken up golf. At least there, when you talk to yourself about doing the same thing and expecting a different result, it's just called practicing your swing.
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Groundhog day ... again on 19:45 - Feb 7 with 3750 views
Groundhog day ... again on 19:28 - Feb 7 by watford_dale
I don't think there would have been many takers because everyone will use the £175 sandy ticket as a comparator that provides entrance to 23 games equating to £7.60 a game.
The current offer of £120 for an 8 game bundle may attract a few (I personally don't think it will as there is no jeopardy involved - promotion or relegation) but, based on the season ticket pricing, this ticket is massively overpriced and should have been priced at £60 (the exact amount is £60.87). Why am I going to pay £120 for 8 when I can get another 15 for £55, which would be the season ticket.
As stadium occupancy is only 22 - 23%, that is an opportunity missed because the matchday experience is certainly not being sold on entertainment at all.
Some good points, especially about the Sandy ticket price which illustrates the weaknesses of one idea. It’s the perfect example of why proper discussions and planning ahead of time is important - to come up with something that in as good as it can be.
That’s the argument that has existed for so long: Having a structure in place that everyone can buy into would enable better decision making, taking into account different opinions and information. Anyone who wants the best for the club could argue against that or find excuses to not look at achieving it. Until we actually acknowledge and address that, we’ll have hundreds of posts repeating the same thing (yes, totally aware of the repetitive nature).
It’s a bit like that film where that bloke keeps living the same day over and over.
Groundhog day ... again on 19:28 - Feb 7 by watford_dale
I don't think there would have been many takers because everyone will use the £175 sandy ticket as a comparator that provides entrance to 23 games equating to £7.60 a game.
The current offer of £120 for an 8 game bundle may attract a few (I personally don't think it will as there is no jeopardy involved - promotion or relegation) but, based on the season ticket pricing, this ticket is massively overpriced and should have been priced at £60 (the exact amount is £60.87). Why am I going to pay £120 for 8 when I can get another 15 for £55, which would be the season ticket.
As stadium occupancy is only 22 - 23%, that is an opportunity missed because the matchday experience is certainly not being sold on entertainment at all.
You make a good point there WD on price point.
Radcliffe Borough, two leagues below us, price at the level where this offer is.
It’s now reached the tipping point of the club being at the perfect storm of very cheap tickets, a EFL standard ground to maintain, insufficient footfall and significant inflation through wages and costs.
We are paying the price for the cheap season ticket experiment which of 2017/18 which simply hasn’t moved with costs or the times or seen the expected take up.
For an adult: * Our most expensive season card nets the club £13.47 per seat of which we keep £11.23 after the VAT is paid over. * Our cheapest season card nets the club £7.60 per place of which keep £6.34 after the VAT is paid over.
Russ Green’s March 2017 video states for 2,000 season ticket holders it’s £250 anywhere in the ground. We were hoping for 4,000 season ticket holders!
Fast forward 6 years and I think ours are priced at £175, £245 and £310. Still at around 2,000 season ticket holders.which means:
Price deflation/loss to the club in the Sandy. Price deflation/loss to the club in the Pearl Street. Main Stand inflation is +24%.
(I’m not adjusting for the Covid refunds either which make those figures worse.)
RPI over the six year period from the video is 36%
If we sell tickets at Northern Premier League prices then either shareholders and/or “the Board” of the day have to fund the losses if our playing costs are at National League or EFL levels and there is no one-off.
£15 in at Radcliffe vs £15 in at Dale if you sign up to all 8 games.
The occupancy point is a bit of a red herring until we match revenues and costs at the same expectation levels. If the local hoardes descend on Spotland we will be able to accommodate them.
We are aspirationally seeking Tier 4 football selling tickets at Tier 7 prices with a Tier 4/5 cost base.
That’s the elephant in the room that drives everything else.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
Groundhog day ... again on 23:32 - Feb 7 by RAFCBLUE
You make a good point there WD on price point.
Radcliffe Borough, two leagues below us, price at the level where this offer is.
It’s now reached the tipping point of the club being at the perfect storm of very cheap tickets, a EFL standard ground to maintain, insufficient footfall and significant inflation through wages and costs.
We are paying the price for the cheap season ticket experiment which of 2017/18 which simply hasn’t moved with costs or the times or seen the expected take up.
For an adult: * Our most expensive season card nets the club £13.47 per seat of which we keep £11.23 after the VAT is paid over. * Our cheapest season card nets the club £7.60 per place of which keep £6.34 after the VAT is paid over.
Russ Green’s March 2017 video states for 2,000 season ticket holders it’s £250 anywhere in the ground. We were hoping for 4,000 season ticket holders!
Fast forward 6 years and I think ours are priced at £175, £245 and £310. Still at around 2,000 season ticket holders.which means:
Price deflation/loss to the club in the Sandy. Price deflation/loss to the club in the Pearl Street. Main Stand inflation is +24%.
(I’m not adjusting for the Covid refunds either which make those figures worse.)
RPI over the six year period from the video is 36%
If we sell tickets at Northern Premier League prices then either shareholders and/or “the Board” of the day have to fund the losses if our playing costs are at National League or EFL levels and there is no one-off.
£15 in at Radcliffe vs £15 in at Dale if you sign up to all 8 games.
The occupancy point is a bit of a red herring until we match revenues and costs at the same expectation levels. If the local hoardes descend on Spotland we will be able to accommodate them.
We are aspirationally seeking Tier 4 football selling tickets at Tier 7 prices with a Tier 4/5 cost base.
That’s the elephant in the room that drives everything else.
Not sure I agree with you on this one RAFC Blue. Pricing is a bit subjective, but in 2019/20 season we asked main standers to pay £250 for their season ticket. With inflation that would be £306 today. We charged £310 last Summer for this season. So we have already increased our season ticket price by more than inflation AND we have been relegated twice in the same time period. Of course you can argue that £250 was too low in 2019 - but you can't ignore that that is where we were.
Our achilles heel is not whether we should charge the existing season card holders significantly more than inflation for an inferior product, but how we price to attract a whole host of new fans week in week out. Winning helps of course, but jacking up pricing beyond inflation when absolute attendances are in decline is not good business sense. Our gate prices for main stand and willbutts at £24 isn't good value at this level whatever you might think. The twenty is plenty campaign for Premier League seemed funny at the time it was announced - and we think £24 for non league football is okay. It isn't and we need to find a way to grow the fan base, offer a plethora of deals to get bums on seats and reward those that come. At the very least discount the one off ticket to say £20 if bought before the day of the game. I fear that jacking up pricing for a mid table non league club will only accelerate the decline in attendances.
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Groundhog day ... again on 21:02 - Feb 10 with 2792 views
Groundhog day ... again on 20:10 - Feb 10 by Dalenet
Not sure I agree with you on this one RAFC Blue. Pricing is a bit subjective, but in 2019/20 season we asked main standers to pay £250 for their season ticket. With inflation that would be £306 today. We charged £310 last Summer for this season. So we have already increased our season ticket price by more than inflation AND we have been relegated twice in the same time period. Of course you can argue that £250 was too low in 2019 - but you can't ignore that that is where we were.
Our achilles heel is not whether we should charge the existing season card holders significantly more than inflation for an inferior product, but how we price to attract a whole host of new fans week in week out. Winning helps of course, but jacking up pricing beyond inflation when absolute attendances are in decline is not good business sense. Our gate prices for main stand and willbutts at £24 isn't good value at this level whatever you might think. The twenty is plenty campaign for Premier League seemed funny at the time it was announced - and we think £24 for non league football is okay. It isn't and we need to find a way to grow the fan base, offer a plethora of deals to get bums on seats and reward those that come. At the very least discount the one off ticket to say £20 if bought before the day of the game. I fear that jacking up pricing for a mid table non league club will only accelerate the decline in attendances.
I think its the case that if we don't pay more, there is no club. Without any hint that discussions to sell the club are still happening, we have to act accordingly. Hence prices must go up, I would suggest 20% plus a mark up to the nearest round figure price point across the board with the gap between Seniors and other adults being reduced markedly. The only other change would be to offer free tickets to accompanied U12s to allow the "pester power" to work a little better.
Equally we need to recognise where we are at and start entertaining, better to lose 3-4 than sideways passing ad nauseam for a 1-1 or a single goal defeat. The biggest problem is that its just not much fun anymore... Put simply there isn't a single player in this team that I would cross the road to watch. At least even Dogshit Donnelly looked as if he was making an effort, most of the time this lot look like they need someone to put the square key in their backs and wind them up. We get bullied too easily.
Groundhog day ... again on 21:02 - Feb 10 by 49thseason
I think its the case that if we don't pay more, there is no club. Without any hint that discussions to sell the club are still happening, we have to act accordingly. Hence prices must go up, I would suggest 20% plus a mark up to the nearest round figure price point across the board with the gap between Seniors and other adults being reduced markedly. The only other change would be to offer free tickets to accompanied U12s to allow the "pester power" to work a little better.
Equally we need to recognise where we are at and start entertaining, better to lose 3-4 than sideways passing ad nauseam for a 1-1 or a single goal defeat. The biggest problem is that its just not much fun anymore... Put simply there isn't a single player in this team that I would cross the road to watch. At least even Dogshit Donnelly looked as if he was making an effort, most of the time this lot look like they need someone to put the square key in their backs and wind them up. We get bullied too easily.
Its just all so farking tedious.
So are you not going to games now or is there a route without roads that need crossing on the way to Spotland?
For all the recent failings, and there are plenty that need to be addressed, this team’s effort over the season can’t really be questioned. Unless telling Harvey Gilmour might help his performances having been required to play every game so far?
Groundhog day ... again on 21:02 - Feb 10 by 49thseason
I think its the case that if we don't pay more, there is no club. Without any hint that discussions to sell the club are still happening, we have to act accordingly. Hence prices must go up, I would suggest 20% plus a mark up to the nearest round figure price point across the board with the gap between Seniors and other adults being reduced markedly. The only other change would be to offer free tickets to accompanied U12s to allow the "pester power" to work a little better.
Equally we need to recognise where we are at and start entertaining, better to lose 3-4 than sideways passing ad nauseam for a 1-1 or a single goal defeat. The biggest problem is that its just not much fun anymore... Put simply there isn't a single player in this team that I would cross the road to watch. At least even Dogshit Donnelly looked as if he was making an effort, most of the time this lot look like they need someone to put the square key in their backs and wind them up. We get bullied too easily.
Its just all so farking tedious.
Self defeating. A 20% increase (plus roundings as you say) will bring around £75k ex VAT if everybody renews. But at almost £400 they won't. I would accept an increase in single figures to reflect inflation, but once you start shafting the loyal fans you are in perpetual decline. You are normally sensible on commercial matters, but over pricing a sub standard product would be commercial suicide. "Must do better" is my marking of the club on attempts to attract new fans consistently and on trying to ask us to drive revenue on non gate related activities. The recent Board response told me they think it is all a bit too hard. It is hard work and needs real targeted effort, but putting prices up by more than 20% would be suicide.
ps - we don't need a free pie or a free programme as an incentive to buy a season ticket.
2
Groundhog day ... again on 18:17 - Feb 12 with 2281 views
Groundhog day ... again on 22:14 - Feb 10 by Dalenet
Self defeating. A 20% increase (plus roundings as you say) will bring around £75k ex VAT if everybody renews. But at almost £400 they won't. I would accept an increase in single figures to reflect inflation, but once you start shafting the loyal fans you are in perpetual decline. You are normally sensible on commercial matters, but over pricing a sub standard product would be commercial suicide. "Must do better" is my marking of the club on attempts to attract new fans consistently and on trying to ask us to drive revenue on non gate related activities. The recent Board response told me they think it is all a bit too hard. It is hard work and needs real targeted effort, but putting prices up by more than 20% would be suicide.
ps - we don't need a free pie or a free programme as an incentive to buy a season ticket.
The price sensitivity is a key issue to generating take-up but so is running at £0.5m deficit per season.
There's no debate that the public of Rochdale are price sensitive. £1 for a game sees a massive takeup - £20 is too much.
For 2024/25, if there is no one prepared to underwrite the annual operating deficit then it will be a combination of: (a) reducing costs (the playing budget being the largest cost element) (b) increasing prices
That's not a criticism that's the economic reality of where the club is and no different to lots of others in the non-league pyramid.
We'd almost be better trying to get everyone in the Wilbutts Lane, trying to sell 3,000 season tickets for £275 (remembering that the club only get £229.16 of that because of VAT) and having one lot of stewarding costs for one stand.
That's £12 a game discounted. £20 on the day.
For the bigger attendances we would have to open other stands but for 18/19 of the league games it wouldn't be an issue.
We can dance around it all we like but asking individuals to commit to being the backstop of funding and hoping for a cup run or player sale isn't going to work in 2024/25. Neither is whacking up ticket prices because that makes is so unaffordable that not coming is an easy choice.
I think the club said somewhere that there is a saving for each stand that isn't opened. I've no idea how many stewards are saved by having just the Wilbutts but its the easiest one to try.
For sure, if we just repeat what we have done for the last 8 seasons it will be the same 2,000 ish and the same financial deficit, unless the playing budget is then reduced to compensate it.
We lose a lot of EFL money next year if we stay down, which looks very likely.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
Groundhog day ... again on 18:17 - Feb 12 by RAFCBLUE
The price sensitivity is a key issue to generating take-up but so is running at £0.5m deficit per season.
There's no debate that the public of Rochdale are price sensitive. £1 for a game sees a massive takeup - £20 is too much.
For 2024/25, if there is no one prepared to underwrite the annual operating deficit then it will be a combination of: (a) reducing costs (the playing budget being the largest cost element) (b) increasing prices
That's not a criticism that's the economic reality of where the club is and no different to lots of others in the non-league pyramid.
We'd almost be better trying to get everyone in the Wilbutts Lane, trying to sell 3,000 season tickets for £275 (remembering that the club only get £229.16 of that because of VAT) and having one lot of stewarding costs for one stand.
That's £12 a game discounted. £20 on the day.
For the bigger attendances we would have to open other stands but for 18/19 of the league games it wouldn't be an issue.
We can dance around it all we like but asking individuals to commit to being the backstop of funding and hoping for a cup run or player sale isn't going to work in 2024/25. Neither is whacking up ticket prices because that makes is so unaffordable that not coming is an easy choice.
I think the club said somewhere that there is a saving for each stand that isn't opened. I've no idea how many stewards are saved by having just the Wilbutts but its the easiest one to try.
For sure, if we just repeat what we have done for the last 8 seasons it will be the same 2,000 ish and the same financial deficit, unless the playing budget is then reduced to compensate it.
We lose a lot of EFL money next year if we stay down, which looks very likely.
Unfortunately, whilst I can see some of the financial aspects of the ‘one stand’ idea, it doesn’t factor in how many fans would simply choose not to come - the Sandy debate in the past has shown this. Also, wouldn’t it impact the hospitality sales if fans were not using the main stand? Similarly the amount of money taken in the Ratcliffe at half time which sees both bars full of fans.
Do you agree that a working group, made up of the club/Trust and supporters analysing factors such as the ‘pay on the day’ figures for each game, to come to the most effective route forward possible is a good idea? This could start, but not be limited to, the upcoming meeting about season cards next month.
Groundhog day ... again on 18:39 - Feb 12 by 442Dale
Unfortunately, whilst I can see some of the financial aspects of the ‘one stand’ idea, it doesn’t factor in how many fans would simply choose not to come - the Sandy debate in the past has shown this. Also, wouldn’t it impact the hospitality sales if fans were not using the main stand? Similarly the amount of money taken in the Ratcliffe at half time which sees both bars full of fans.
Do you agree that a working group, made up of the club/Trust and supporters analysing factors such as the ‘pay on the day’ figures for each game, to come to the most effective route forward possible is a good idea? This could start, but not be limited to, the upcoming meeting about season cards next month.
There are lots of factors to consider.
The primary financial issue is that circa 2,000 season tickets at £6.34+VAT for entry into the Sandy Lane, £8.87+VAT for entry into the Pearl Street or £11.23 for a Main Stand ticket means the club loses circa £0.5m of its aggregate league gate and next year, doing everything the same will see that loss increase because the EFL monies reduce.
Does supporter experience for 2024/25 ally with financial needs of the club given the loss of EFL monies ? Probably not.
I don't like paying more but I will if asked. Others will have their own views and might not want to or be able to; both also important.
I had thought there was already such discussions in place between Trust/club around the future, that is certainly how it appears from the most recent newsletters and I saw earlier that the session in March had been brought forward since it clashed with the Curry Night.
It certainly seems sensible to explore all options but if the answer is we'd like cheap tickets that drive the club into a loss making position then what do you do?
Prices will inevitably have to rise IMO unless there are individuals who will bankroll the club where it makes operating losses. Even with a modest price increase there will still need to be cost cutting and some will not stand for the modest increase and pick and choose their games.
In some cases as arranged a better financial outcome for the club is if a supporter buys a smaller number of full priced games rather than a season ticket.
Ideas to achieve better footfall are admirable and welcome but with attendances around 3,000 and not many significant away attendances in the National League, the reality needs to be accepted for what it is - we have a large percentage of our home attendance on season tickets and not may walkups or interest from the town apart from the games against teams like Oldham.
There certainly needs to be a better focus on specifics and looking at how we can maximise income from existing supporters and others who may attend more/for the first time.
It’s such a shame we didn’t capitalise on the work of supporters and the Trust at the end of last season and have something structured in place ahead of our first season in non league. A plan that could then have been worked on and adapted as the campaign went on. But as has been said hundreds of times, that sort of meandering has been going on at Spotland for many years. We shouldn’t be surprised it’s hasn’t been any different recently.
But yeah, season ticket prices should go up (how much is another debate). It’s something many were surprised about a year ago when it didn’t happen, which if there was a structure in place then could have happened with supporters being aware of the reasoning - especially if they were continually involved in the process.
From the P&L with the last set accounts, I think fans contributed 27% or so of revenue. That includes visiting supporters.
Bearing in mind those are June 2022 accounts, I think that percentage rises very sharply when you disregard EFL monies and the youth development grant, which fall away and one off transfer fees.
It will be something nearer 75% on a National League basis.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
Groundhog day ... again on 13:55 - Feb 13 by RAFCBLUE
Bearing in mind those are June 2022 accounts, I think that percentage rises very sharply when you disregard EFL monies and the youth development grant, which fall away and one off transfer fees.
It will be something nearer 75% on a National League basis.
The other aspect to this is that a season ticket rise is easier to implement than other fund raising exercises, yes there is the VAT to account for but most people just want to watch football, not get involved buying shares and organising standing orders and the like. A big hike in ST prices should have been done after the MH fiasco, but it will have to happen sooner than later. If it turns out that people won't are cannot pay, then the writing is on the wall anyway, unless an investor comes forward. As I have said many times, you cant keep taking more and more money from the same people but we have to try and buy time and get the club on some sort of even financial keel to make it a more attractive proposition either for an investor or as a fan- owned organisation. I remember paying £12 a game to stand in the Sandy before the cheap ST idea emerged and that was a much bigger chunk of disposable income over 23 games than a ST is today. Maybe we should think about splitting the cost into monthy payments somehow, like the wycombe system, but with a front ended weighting. And the Pension is going up 8.7% in April....
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Groundhog day ... again on 14:56 - Feb 13 with 1729 views
Groundhog day ... again on 14:41 - Feb 13 by 49thseason
The other aspect to this is that a season ticket rise is easier to implement than other fund raising exercises, yes there is the VAT to account for but most people just want to watch football, not get involved buying shares and organising standing orders and the like. A big hike in ST prices should have been done after the MH fiasco, but it will have to happen sooner than later. If it turns out that people won't are cannot pay, then the writing is on the wall anyway, unless an investor comes forward. As I have said many times, you cant keep taking more and more money from the same people but we have to try and buy time and get the club on some sort of even financial keel to make it a more attractive proposition either for an investor or as a fan- owned organisation. I remember paying £12 a game to stand in the Sandy before the cheap ST idea emerged and that was a much bigger chunk of disposable income over 23 games than a ST is today. Maybe we should think about splitting the cost into monthy payments somehow, like the wycombe system, but with a front ended weighting. And the Pension is going up 8.7% in April....
In those accounts, just over £300k was raised as sponsorship and commercial (source: 2022 AGM). 5.6% of turnover.
A 20% hike on season ticket prices, assuming we maintain current numbers of buyers, would generate c. £250k additional income, but that presumes no risk in such a price hike.
The club does analyse matchday attendance and can identify pay on the day sales.
Groundhog day ... again on 21:02 - Feb 10 by 49thseason
I think its the case that if we don't pay more, there is no club. Without any hint that discussions to sell the club are still happening, we have to act accordingly. Hence prices must go up, I would suggest 20% plus a mark up to the nearest round figure price point across the board with the gap between Seniors and other adults being reduced markedly. The only other change would be to offer free tickets to accompanied U12s to allow the "pester power" to work a little better.
Equally we need to recognise where we are at and start entertaining, better to lose 3-4 than sideways passing ad nauseam for a 1-1 or a single goal defeat. The biggest problem is that its just not much fun anymore... Put simply there isn't a single player in this team that I would cross the road to watch. At least even Dogshit Donnelly looked as if he was making an effort, most of the time this lot look like they need someone to put the square key in their backs and wind them up. We get bullied too easily.
Its just all so farking tedious.
Disagree with the first paragraph, increasing the price when people can’t afford it and the quality continues to drop doesn’t make any sense. Time to drop the price and get bums on seats. 1% of the boroughs population attend matches.Has to change or we frankly won’t sustain a club in the future. Stockport, Chesterfield, York, Hartlepool all have miles better home attendances than us. If the cost base has to dramatically drop, so be it. At the moment I’d rather be a Scunthorpe fan than a Dale fan.(£16-£18 adult admission. Ave attendance 3,873).
But I agree with your second point. The team performance is very rarely entertaining and is not conducive to hooking and retaining new fans. For me it’s style of play that’s the problem, nothing to do with resources just boring negative often losing football. It has to change.
0
Groundhog day ... again on 19:56 - Feb 13 with 1454 views
Groundhog day ... again on 19:48 - Feb 13 by Rodingdale
Disagree with the first paragraph, increasing the price when people can’t afford it and the quality continues to drop doesn’t make any sense. Time to drop the price and get bums on seats. 1% of the boroughs population attend matches.Has to change or we frankly won’t sustain a club in the future. Stockport, Chesterfield, York, Hartlepool all have miles better home attendances than us. If the cost base has to dramatically drop, so be it. At the moment I’d rather be a Scunthorpe fan than a Dale fan.(£16-£18 adult admission. Ave attendance 3,873).
But I agree with your second point. The team performance is very rarely entertaining and is not conducive to hooking and retaining new fans. For me it’s style of play that’s the problem, nothing to do with resources just boring negative often losing football. It has to change.
But our home attendances have held up this season, and as Fitzo and others have posted, the football hasn’t always been “boring” or “negative”. If it was that bad, people would stop coming.
We’ve simply never come up with a proper plan over the years to grow attendances and capitalise on success/big games/schemes like the Fylde game. That’s not necessarily about dropping prices, but it does need a proper structure which everyone can get on board with.
Groundhog day ... again on 19:48 - Feb 13 by Rodingdale
Disagree with the first paragraph, increasing the price when people can’t afford it and the quality continues to drop doesn’t make any sense. Time to drop the price and get bums on seats. 1% of the boroughs population attend matches.Has to change or we frankly won’t sustain a club in the future. Stockport, Chesterfield, York, Hartlepool all have miles better home attendances than us. If the cost base has to dramatically drop, so be it. At the moment I’d rather be a Scunthorpe fan than a Dale fan.(£16-£18 adult admission. Ave attendance 3,873).
But I agree with your second point. The team performance is very rarely entertaining and is not conducive to hooking and retaining new fans. For me it’s style of play that’s the problem, nothing to do with resources just boring negative often losing football. It has to change.
I don't think there is funding to back any form of price drop, save for a financial deficit growing bigger and needing someone to fund it.
Remember next season we lose the EFL Parachute payment and 50% of the EFL grant so start worse off before we do anything on season ticket prices.
The £16-£18 admission (£13.33 + VAT to £15+VAT) theory works if everyone paid that, but they don't.
We have some season tickets at £6.34+VAT, so £7+VAT per game less than Scunthorpe take as a club than we take as a club.
Ignoring the different types of accommodation for a minute if every fan paid £16 (£13.33+VAT) next season then a season ticket then a season ticket would be £368 for the full season.
On a £20 match ticket that is 4.5 games discount for season ticket holders.
That's too expensive IMO but shows that a season ticket gives a sizeable cost saving plus the other benefits of priority.
The current Sandy Lane season ticket charges just £175 vs £460 on a per game basis - over 14 games discount, which would indicate that the season ticket is underpriced, the matchday ticket is overpriced or likely a bit of both.
I don't disagree with you on the need to provide entertainment point.
George Bernard Shaw had it right:
"He who can does; he who cannot, teaches."
https://www.visittheusa.co.uk/
Groundhog day ... again on 19:56 - Feb 13 by 442Dale
But our home attendances have held up this season, and as Fitzo and others have posted, the football hasn’t always been “boring” or “negative”. If it was that bad, people would stop coming.
We’ve simply never come up with a proper plan over the years to grow attendances and capitalise on success/big games/schemes like the Fylde game. That’s not necessarily about dropping prices, but it does need a proper structure which everyone can get on board with.
I don’t agree with Fitzo, he sees what he sees, has his own view; and I get that as a journo he probably wants to maintain relationships with McNulty for professional reasons. But it doesn’t make him right. What I, and the people who I sit with see, its a bore fest. People turn up because they have bought season tickets in blind hope and it’s a habit. But they are the same people. We need to attract new people, hundreds of them - first by pricing sensibly in a low income town and then providing entertainment on the pitch.
I’m not talking about attendances holding up, I’m talking about growing them, break the mould - but a Saturday afternoon has to be more fun than it is at the moment to get people to come back.
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Groundhog day ... again on 20:26 - Feb 13 with 1395 views
Groundhog day ... again on 20:17 - Feb 13 by Rodingdale
I don’t agree with Fitzo, he sees what he sees, has his own view; and I get that as a journo he probably wants to maintain relationships with McNulty for professional reasons. But it doesn’t make him right. What I, and the people who I sit with see, its a bore fest. People turn up because they have bought season tickets in blind hope and it’s a habit. But they are the same people. We need to attract new people, hundreds of them - first by pricing sensibly in a low income town and then providing entertainment on the pitch.
I’m not talking about attendances holding up, I’m talking about growing them, break the mould - but a Saturday afternoon has to be more fun than it is at the moment to get people to come back.
He can answer for himself but Fitzochris is a fan like you and me so not sure why his profession matters! In the main I agree with his posts and others who see our issues as being multiple and others restricted to sticking to one way of playing. Because we don’t. As shown by those highlights at Altrincham which DAlien identified how direct the new keeper is with his passing rather than going short to defenders all the time. Results are the important thing of course, so it’s understandable that a 3-0 defeat rightly brings criticism; the manager got his selection all wrong.
We did attract hundreds of new fans on Boxing Day. The game wasn’t brilliant but we won and the fans went home happy. What did we do following that which has proven to be visible and consistent in terms of a plan to retain those people? That we are even still talking about it - your points about establishing the correct pricing are illustrative of this - shows how incredibly poor we have been.
Results are massively important, our failings as a football club off the pitch for many years are equally so.
Edit: the Fylde game WASN’T brilliant! Typo claimed it was. Don’t want a good result to mask an average match.
Groundhog day ... again on 19:56 - Feb 13 by 442Dale
But our home attendances have held up this season, and as Fitzo and others have posted, the football hasn’t always been “boring” or “negative”. If it was that bad, people would stop coming.
We’ve simply never come up with a proper plan over the years to grow attendances and capitalise on success/big games/schemes like the Fylde game. That’s not necessarily about dropping prices, but it does need a proper structure which everyone can get on board with.
A club whose attendances I've found interesting recent years is Morecambe.
In 2018/19, they averaged 2,033 In 2019/20, it was 2,228 (season cut short) In 2021/22, their first in League One, the average was 4,310 Last season, also in League One, it was 4,572 This season, back in League Two, it's currently 3,999.
What did they do that we didn't to almost double their average home crowd after a promotion and to see it still at almost 4,000 after relegation.
I know there would have been a new ground syndrome for a lot of visiting fans, but there has to be more to it than that, as Morecambe's own home support has grown significantly in the last five years.
When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf?
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