| Our manager 13:11 - Sep 4 with 3878 views | saint22 |
Has he actually apologised for the debacle on Saturday and taken responsibility for it with that abominable selection and tactics |  | | |  |
| Our manager on 16:17 - Sep 4 with 2657 views | SaintNick |
I would say firstly the only real issue most would have had was that Sekoe Mara had been selected and Shea Adams on the bench, otherwise i don;t think many would have argued with the other 10 players on the pitch.
Secondly it wasn't the tactis that were the issue it was the players inability to do basic things like keep people back when we have corners and actually mark people in the box.
None of which are the managers fault, as i said elsewhere I doubt his last instructions were "Dont bother leave anyone back when we have corners " & "Dont bother marking people in the box" if he did say those things then the players followed his instructions to the rule |  |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
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| Our manager on 16:25 - Sep 4 with 2652 views | PatfromPoole |
| Our manager on 16:17 - Sep 4 by SaintNick |
I would say firstly the only real issue most would have had was that Sekoe Mara had been selected and Shea Adams on the bench, otherwise i don;t think many would have argued with the other 10 players on the pitch.
Secondly it wasn't the tactis that were the issue it was the players inability to do basic things like keep people back when we have corners and actually mark people in the box.
None of which are the managers fault, as i said elsewhere I doubt his last instructions were "Dont bother leave anyone back when we have corners " & "Dont bother marking people in the box" if he did say those things then the players followed his instructions to the rule |
Shea Charles or Che Adams???
Shea Charles, I guess (?)….. |  |
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| Our manager on 16:47 - Sep 4 with 2634 views | 1ASIN12 |
| Our manager on 16:17 - Sep 4 by SaintNick |
I would say firstly the only real issue most would have had was that Sekoe Mara had been selected and Shea Adams on the bench, otherwise i don;t think many would have argued with the other 10 players on the pitch.
Secondly it wasn't the tactis that were the issue it was the players inability to do basic things like keep people back when we have corners and actually mark people in the box.
None of which are the managers fault, as i said elsewhere I doubt his last instructions were "Dont bother leave anyone back when we have corners " & "Dont bother marking people in the box" if he did say those things then the players followed his instructions to the rule |
Is keeping players back at corners or telling them to go up for corners not part of the tactics ?
If you didn’t want your players to go up for corners why didn’t the coaching team , after all there are plenty of them , tell the players they didn’t want going forward to hang back ? | | | |
| Our manager on 16:49 - Sep 4 with 2628 views | Heisenberg |
| Our manager on 16:17 - Sep 4 by SaintNick |
I would say firstly the only real issue most would have had was that Sekoe Mara had been selected and Shea Adams on the bench, otherwise i don;t think many would have argued with the other 10 players on the pitch.
Secondly it wasn't the tactis that were the issue it was the players inability to do basic things like keep people back when we have corners and actually mark people in the box.
None of which are the managers fault, as i said elsewhere I doubt his last instructions were "Dont bother leave anyone back when we have corners " & "Dont bother marking people in the box" if he did say those things then the players followed his instructions to the rule |
‘It wasn’t the tactics that were the issue’
Worst goals against in the entire league which replicates RMs record at Swansea points to more than players not doing there jobs. We were all over the place. The buck stops with the manager. At the current rate we will concede over a 100 goals by the end of the season. Something is wrong with RMs tactics and he needs to take responsibility. |  |
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| Our manager on 17:08 - Sep 4 with 2589 views | Southamptonfan |
| Our manager on 16:17 - Sep 4 by SaintNick |
I would say firstly the only real issue most would have had was that Sekoe Mara had been selected and Shea Adams on the bench, otherwise i don;t think many would have argued with the other 10 players on the pitch.
Secondly it wasn't the tactis that were the issue it was the players inability to do basic things like keep people back when we have corners and actually mark people in the box.
None of which are the managers fault, as i said elsewhere I doubt his last instructions were "Dont bother leave anyone back when we have corners " & "Dont bother marking people in the box" if he did say those things then the players followed his instructions to the rule |
I tend to agree with you Nick. Anyone who saw Adam Armstrongs run from one end of the pitch to the other, in the QPR game, that resulted in massive cheers around St Mary's, will tell you - that's what's needed. Many of those players are not putting the effort in. It's happened under various managers.
The manager, as you say, doesn't say "Don't run, don't tackle, don't mark up, just stand there lads and don't put any effort in", because that's what they did and that's what they did all last season. So these players need to take responsibility and try harder. The manager has his roll to play, but it doesn't matter what tactics you employ, if the players don't put a shift in. Armstrong showed against QPR, what's needed. All the players should be running like crazy. But they don't.
They need to work harder and perform for their fans regardless. They get paid thousands a week, dam well earn your.money and stop standing there as the opposition breeze past with ease. The manager in his interviews says he wants them to run and tackle and be aggressive. If they refuse to do it on the pitch, then they need to stop refusing and follow their manager's instructions. RM has made it clear he expects them to run, ta kle and be aggressive. They didn't do it on Saturday, so they must be refusing - all on 50 grand a week. And this has happened for years under different managers. They have the same.problem at Everton. [Post edited 4 Sep 2023 17:17]
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| Our manager on 17:18 - Sep 4 with 2561 views | saint901 |
It was absolutely the tactics, compounded by some individual errors.
The first goal - how can a ball be played to the back post four yards out and not be collected by the keeper? How can the right back and centre back allow the ball to go that far?
Then the keeper gets beaten from long(ish) range at his near post?
Then we have defenders either chasing a ball they lost and a pass later being out of the game or failing to make a 10/15 yard pass to a team mate.
Possession football is great when you have the ball and are making pretty pictures. Set pieces don't really work with that tactic because you need a different type of player, one who can attack the ball/space and try to make something happen.
None of the forwards we had at the start of the game can do that. Either they're not willing to go where it might hurt or they're too small and get blocked out or their game is based on open play.
Worse, if you set up for possession, have a set piece and lose the ball (inevitable) then you need to cover for a fast break - and we failed dismally in that.
And I'm sorry but Mara should be loaned out to the lower leagues. When he's on the pitch it's the same as playing with 10 men or worse because he just gives the ball away all the time. Whatever he does in training to impress the manager, disappears in a competitive match and I'm baffled as to why he was preferred to Che.
I'm hoping this was a one off and that lessons will be learned but I fear that the other Champ managers are looking at that and working out how to beat us. | | | |
| Our manager on 17:38 - Sep 4 with 2537 views | Ifonly |
| Our manager on 16:17 - Sep 4 by SaintNick |
I would say firstly the only real issue most would have had was that Sekoe Mara had been selected and Shea Adams on the bench, otherwise i don;t think many would have argued with the other 10 players on the pitch.
Secondly it wasn't the tactis that were the issue it was the players inability to do basic things like keep people back when we have corners and actually mark people in the box.
None of which are the managers fault, as i said elsewhere I doubt his last instructions were "Dont bother leave anyone back when we have corners " & "Dont bother marking people in the box" if he did say those things then the players followed his instructions to the rule |
As I've said elsewhere, with respect that's totally wrong. If we don't keep anyone back when we have a corner - in the first minute of the game, not the last - that is absolutely the manager's fault.
In a professional club, set pieces are drilled on the training ground. Who goes up and who stays back is decided by the coaches. You seem to think it's up to the players who decide on the day. It only works that way in pub teams, not professional ones. Late in the game a pro team may adapt to the situation, but in the first minute what they do at a set piece is purely based on work at the training ground.
We were a shambles on Saturday and RM has to take primary responsibility. To be fair to him, we haven't been able to defend at set pieces or when teams break on us for a few years now. But he hasn't made any progress on those issues so far and needs to get going soon. | | | |
| Our manager on 17:55 - Sep 4 with 2515 views | Southamptonfan |
| Our manager on 17:38 - Sep 4 by Ifonly |
As I've said elsewhere, with respect that's totally wrong. If we don't keep anyone back when we have a corner - in the first minute of the game, not the last - that is absolutely the manager's fault.
In a professional club, set pieces are drilled on the training ground. Who goes up and who stays back is decided by the coaches. You seem to think it's up to the players who decide on the day. It only works that way in pub teams, not professional ones. Late in the game a pro team may adapt to the situation, but in the first minute what they do at a set piece is purely based on work at the training ground.
We were a shambles on Saturday and RM has to take primary responsibility. To be fair to him, we haven't been able to defend at set pieces or when teams break on us for a few years now. But he hasn't made any progress on those issues so far and needs to get going soon. |
There needs to be some leadership on the pitch too, as we have said for years. Whatever the manager says, in the heat if the battle, one or two senior players need to be taking responsibility on the pitch and simply saying " Get back, mark up" whatever is needed. Instead they just stand there shrugging their shoulders looking surprised. [Post edited 4 Sep 2023 18:06]
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| Our manager on 19:25 - Sep 4 with 2456 views | saint22 |
| Our manager on 16:17 - Sep 4 by SaintNick |
I would say firstly the only real issue most would have had was that Sekoe Mara had been selected and Shea Adams on the bench, otherwise i don;t think many would have argued with the other 10 players on the pitch.
Secondly it wasn't the tactis that were the issue it was the players inability to do basic things like keep people back when we have corners and actually mark people in the box.
None of which are the managers fault, as i said elsewhere I doubt his last instructions were "Dont bother leave anyone back when we have corners " & "Dont bother marking people in the box" if he did say those things then the players followed his instructions to the rule |
Adams
Charles
Alcaraz
All should have started | | | |
| Our manager on 21:39 - Sep 4 with 2377 views | saintwizzler |
A decent goalkeeper will organise his defence. |  |
| We thought that we had the answers,
It was the questions we had wrong. |
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| Our manager on 21:50 - Sep 4 with 2372 views | SaintNick |
| Our manager on 21:39 - Sep 4 by saintwizzler |
A decent goalkeeper will organise his defence. |
You can either have a goalkeeper that organises the defence or a central defender, we have neither, when Shilton arrived in his first 7 League games he conceded 4 at home to newly promoted Watford, 6 away at Spurs and another 5 at Liverpool, in a grand total of 18 goals in the opening 7 League games.
At the time he was regarded the best goalkeeper in the World, if you dont have a good defence then it doesn't matter who you have in goal | |
| Satisfying The Bloodlust Of The Masses In Peacetime |
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| Our manager on 22:27 - Sep 4 with 2330 views | A1079 |
Reading all these comments and other posts there is one definable fact that be it last season, the season before or this current one, we are a team, a club with persistent issues and failings which have not thus far been fixable whatever the manager or coach in charge. Which comes down to 2 things: we either keep appointing managers/coaches not up to the job or we persistently employ a group of players that appear to be incompetent at doing the basics or just won't. | | | |
| Our manager on 23:49 - Sep 4 with 2277 views | SFC_Referee |
| Our manager on 19:25 - Sep 4 by saint22 |
Adams
Charles
Alcaraz
All should have started |
Tbf we were never gonna be able to start all of them and satisfy everyone. As I also thought that Stu, Downes, Smallbone and A.Armstrong. As up front I think it was only really Mara who everyone agreed shouldn’t of played, and in midfield any could’ve arguably started.
So like Nick said, it’s only really Mara which RM can be blamed for |  |
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| Our manager on 06:58 - Sep 5 with 2219 views | saintwizzler |
| Our manager on 21:50 - Sep 4 by SaintNick |
You can either have a goalkeeper that organises the defence or a central defender, we have neither, when Shilton arrived in his first 7 League games he conceded 4 at home to newly promoted Watford, 6 away at Spurs and another 5 at Liverpool, in a grand total of 18 goals in the opening 7 League games.
At the time he was regarded the best goalkeeper in the World, if you dont have a good defence then it doesn't matter who you have in goal |
It matters when the goalkeeper lets shots go through him and when making diving saves doesn’t palm the ball away from the danger area.
Both Bazunu and McCarthy time and time again make errors that lead to goals.
That could have been 10-0 last Saturday with the antics Bazunu was up to.
Basic goalkeeping.
The goalkeeper has the best view of all the players and should be screaming at his defenders.
First goal on Saturday “Edozie left shoulder you cûnt, your man b’Jesus so it is!”
But still let’s keep playing him. He came from Man City so he must be good. | |
| We thought that we had the answers,
It was the questions we had wrong. |
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| Our manager on 07:18 - Sep 5 with 2195 views | Heisenberg |
| Our manager on 06:58 - Sep 5 by saintwizzler |
It matters when the goalkeeper lets shots go through him and when making diving saves doesn’t palm the ball away from the danger area.
Both Bazunu and McCarthy time and time again make errors that lead to goals.
That could have been 10-0 last Saturday with the antics Bazunu was up to.
Basic goalkeeping.
The goalkeeper has the best view of all the players and should be screaming at his defenders.
First goal on Saturday “Edozie left shoulder you cûnt, your man b’Jesus so it is!”
But still let’s keep playing him. He came from Man City so he must be good. |
The question is why was a young inexperienced winger left as last man when we had a corner. Nothing to do with our manager who can’t organise a team that can defends ? | |
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| Our manager on 07:29 - Sep 5 with 2190 views | saintwizzler |
| Our manager on 22:27 - Sep 4 by A1079 |
Reading all these comments and other posts there is one definable fact that be it last season, the season before or this current one, we are a team, a club with persistent issues and failings which have not thus far been fixable whatever the manager or coach in charge. Which comes down to 2 things: we either keep appointing managers/coaches not up to the job or we persistently employ a group of players that appear to be incompetent at doing the basics or just won't. |
Exactly this.
The appointment of Russell Martin is a gamble. It may pay off, it may not.
Nathan Jones was a gamble. Selles got the job on the back of beating Chelsea.
We’ve needed a good spine of a team. Goalkeeper, Centre Back(s), Defensive Midfielder and Centre Forward.
We still haven’t got the goalkeeper. Bazunu may well become an excellent goalkeeper but to throw someone so young into a poor Premier League team last season was utter madness.
Centre Back - we have an experienced Championship winning player with Burnley last season and Captain of the England u21s now in TBH. Where was he Saturday? SAT ON THE BENCH.
Defensive Midfielder - again a youngster due to the owners profit making scheme, but in Shea Charles looks a good player in this position.
Big and strong. Where was he Saturday? SAT ON THE BENCH.
Centre Forward - Now the transfer window has shut and Che Adams is in the building he is the man in this position. Championship is his level. With Adam Armstrong moving to the wing.
Where was Che Adams on Saturday? SAT ON THE BENCH.
A good transfer window but McCarthy should have been moved on, at whatever cost, and a decent Championship level (or higher) goalkeeper bought.
But now we are stuck with Bazunu and McCarthy till January so it is what it is.
Why Martin didn’t pick TBH, Charles and Adams on Saturday only he knows?
And please none of this ‘right frame of mind bollôcks’ they are paid handsomely to do a job, SO GET ON AND DO IT! | |
| We thought that we had the answers,
It was the questions we had wrong. |
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| Our manager on 07:38 - Sep 5 with 2182 views | Heisenberg |
‘The appointment of RM is a gamble’. It’s not a gamble at all. He can’t set up a team that defends. It doesn’t matter which players we have and if we have a world class keeper if we leave Edozie has as the only man back when we have a corner. Or leave your back four unprotected all the time. I keep saying it and happy to be proven wrong but we have absolutely no chance of going up if we continue conceding like we do. And it’s Martins responsibility to sort it. We should have appointed an experienced manager who has been there and done it. With our squad we would not be conceding like we do. | |
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| Our manager on 07:51 - Sep 5 with 2174 views | saint22 |
| Our manager on 23:49 - Sep 4 by SFC_Referee |
Tbf we were never gonna be able to start all of them and satisfy everyone. As I also thought that Stu, Downes, Smallbone and A.Armstrong. As up front I think it was only really Mara who everyone agreed shouldn’t of played, and in midfield any could’ve arguably started.
So like Nick said, it’s only really Mara which RM can be blamed for |
complete tosh
Its all RM's fault, he picked the wrong team and the wrong personnel and his tactics were all wrong
If the players didn't follow his game plan then he lacks man management, if they did he got it all wrong
as someone else pointed out we had better players in positions that were left on the bench
keeper aside he could have picked abetter team | | | |
| Our manager on 07:56 - Sep 5 with 2168 views | Heisenberg |
| Our manager on 07:51 - Sep 5 by saint22 |
complete tosh
Its all RM's fault, he picked the wrong team and the wrong personnel and his tactics were all wrong
If the players didn't follow his game plan then he lacks man management, if they did he got it all wrong
as someone else pointed out we had better players in positions that were left on the bench
keeper aside he could have picked abetter team |
RM is like the Tory Education minister who despite schools falling down complains that no one tells her she is doing a good job. RM comments after the game at the weekend showed he took absolutely no responsibility at all. | |
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| Our manager on 08:21 - Sep 5 with 2159 views | Berber |
| Our manager on 16:17 - Sep 4 by SaintNick |
I would say firstly the only real issue most would have had was that Sekoe Mara had been selected and Shea Adams on the bench, otherwise i don;t think many would have argued with the other 10 players on the pitch.
Secondly it wasn't the tactis that were the issue it was the players inability to do basic things like keep people back when we have corners and actually mark people in the box.
None of which are the managers fault, as i said elsewhere I doubt his last instructions were "Dont bother leave anyone back when we have corners " & "Dont bother marking people in the box" if he did say those things then the players followed his instructions to the rule |
A manager that has a team so woefully deficient on the basics surely sn’t managing and coaching effectively? He has history. |  |
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| Our manager on 08:33 - Sep 5 with 2143 views | saintwizzler |
| Our manager on 07:38 - Sep 5 by Heisenberg |
‘The appointment of RM is a gamble’. It’s not a gamble at all. He can’t set up a team that defends. It doesn’t matter which players we have and if we have a world class keeper if we leave Edozie has as the only man back when we have a corner. Or leave your back four unprotected all the time. I keep saying it and happy to be proven wrong but we have absolutely no chance of going up if we continue conceding like we do. And it’s Martins responsibility to sort it. We should have appointed an experienced manager who has been there and done it. With our squad we would not be conceding like we do. |
Well it is a gamble!
A gamble on wether we can get back up in 2 seasons or become the next West Brom! | |
| We thought that we had the answers,
It was the questions we had wrong. |
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| Our manager on 09:35 - Sep 5 with 2104 views | saint22 |
| Our manager on 07:56 - Sep 5 by Heisenberg |
RM is like the Tory Education minister who despite schools falling down complains that no one tells her she is doing a good job. RM comments after the game at the weekend showed he took absolutely no responsibility at all. |
Our club is a bit like the Tory party generally, led by complete self serving fools only interested in making money for themselves and continually making awful decisions that affects everyone below them | | | |
| Our manager on 09:36 - Sep 5 with 2099 views | Heisenberg |
| Our manager on 08:33 - Sep 5 by saintwizzler |
Well it is a gamble!
A gamble on wether we can get back up in 2 seasons or become the next West Brom! |
It’s not a gamble if you know he’s not up to the job. Like putting money on a donkey to win the grand national. A few weeks ago RM made a comment about taking time for the players to understand his approach as it’s ‘a bit weird’. It’s not weird at all. Set up a team that can defend when you need to. | |
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| Our manager on 09:42 - Sep 5 with 2085 views | saintwizzler |
| Our manager on 09:36 - Sep 5 by Heisenberg |
It’s not a gamble if you know he’s not up to the job. Like putting money on a donkey to win the grand national. A few weeks ago RM made a comment about taking time for the players to understand his approach as it’s ‘a bit weird’. It’s not weird at all. Set up a team that can defend when you need to. |
There’s 11 games between now and the international break in November.
Let’s see where we are then.
But things defensively HAVE to change. | |
| We thought that we had the answers,
It was the questions we had wrong. |
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| Our manager on 09:44 - Sep 5 with 2085 views | SFC_Referee |
| Our manager on 07:51 - Sep 5 by saint22 |
complete tosh
Its all RM's fault, he picked the wrong team and the wrong personnel and his tactics were all wrong
If the players didn't follow his game plan then he lacks man management, if they did he got it all wrong
as someone else pointed out we had better players in positions that were left on the bench
keeper aside he could have picked abetter team |
Well it ain’t, as many on here and the saintswebb we’re debating who should/shouldn’t be playing in all the other positions outside of Mara’s, as yeah Che should’ve played over him all day long, but for midfield and wingers basically everyone else was up for debate which is exactly why many have argued over it.
And defensively, for who was available that was always gonna be the defence we played, although hopefully that can change with players becoming available. | |
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