| McNulty's comments on 19:59 - Jul 30 with 3005 views | TalkingSutty |
| McNulty's comments on 19:51 - Jul 30 by dawlishdale |
Expertly put, and echoes my personal views. Under older Boards, with CD and DK as Chair, there was little need to have fans representation because generally, with one or two exceptions, things ran relatively smoothly. Sadly, when Bottomley arrived, there was almost instant turmoil on the Board, and eventually CD stepped down, leaving Andrew Kilpatrick at the helm, which sadly played straight into Roger's hands.
The trouble is that if a Trust representative questions too closely the decisions or actions of the Board; they will just side step him and carry on regardless. This is why Murray is in a very difficult position.
Getting back to the EGM vote, I have given the matter much thought and have decided to abstain. I cannot vote for or against a motion without having sufficient information about it. I would suggest every other shareholder does the same. It may force the Board into making the statement that we all need, and that they should have released on day one. If the Board don't issue full disclosure to shareholders, and the motion isn't carried, it will be entirely their fault. |
Good post. If the board don't issue full disclosure to shareholders, and the motion isn't carried, what do you think the shareholders/ Trust/ fans should do then? The Chairman and Director have already indicated that the probable outcome will then be liquidation. What does everybody else on the forum think should happen? It's all too much of a gamble for me, even if they struck lucky and found a investor, what sort of investor would it be and would they then have to be accepted into the club through desperation? The other part of the gamble is probable liquidation. It's not a difficult decision for me, i think we should try to row our own boat. [Post edited 30 Jul 2023 20:20]
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| McNulty's comments on 20:12 - Jul 30 with 2947 views | sxdale |
| McNulty's comments on 19:51 - Jul 30 by dawlishdale |
Expertly put, and echoes my personal views. Under older Boards, with CD and DK as Chair, there was little need to have fans representation because generally, with one or two exceptions, things ran relatively smoothly. Sadly, when Bottomley arrived, there was almost instant turmoil on the Board, and eventually CD stepped down, leaving Andrew Kilpatrick at the helm, which sadly played straight into Roger's hands.
The trouble is that if a Trust representative questions too closely the decisions or actions of the Board; they will just side step him and carry on regardless. This is why Murray is in a very difficult position.
Getting back to the EGM vote, I have given the matter much thought and have decided to abstain. I cannot vote for or against a motion without having sufficient information about it. I would suggest every other shareholder does the same. It may force the Board into making the statement that we all need, and that they should have released on day one. If the Board don't issue full disclosure to shareholders, and the motion isn't carried, it will be entirely their fault. |
If shareholders abstain, wouldn't that mean it would just be easier for the BOD to have the vote carried? |  | | |
| McNulty's comments on 20:23 - Jul 30 with 2893 views | dawlishdale |
| McNulty's comments on 20:12 - Jul 30 by sxdale |
If shareholders abstain, wouldn't that mean it would just be easier for the BOD to have the vote carried? |
I'm not entirely sure. I thought they needed 75% of votes to be in favour of the proposal for it to be carried.
What i really want is for the board to see a bit of sense and tell shareholders the details of what they are proposing in advance.
I also don't want the fans forum to be dominated by discussion of the EGM although I think that's now inevitable. | | | |
| McNulty's comments on 21:10 - Jul 30 with 2774 views | sxdale |
| McNulty's comments on 20:23 - Jul 30 by dawlishdale |
I'm not entirely sure. I thought they needed 75% of votes to be in favour of the proposal for it to be carried.
What i really want is for the board to see a bit of sense and tell shareholders the details of what they are proposing in advance.
I also don't want the fans forum to be dominated by discussion of the EGM although I think that's now inevitable. |
I think all that any of us want is for the board to come clean, I'm just concerned that abstaining will reduce the overall number of votes needed to reach the 75%.
It's a sh1tty situation the board has put us all in. Do we go with what they want on blind faith and get rid of probably our best safety net, or go against them and possibly risk the future of our club.
It's all so easily resolved by just giving us the information we need, why the f****** secrecy?
Still waiting for an email from the club. I emailed Mr Delves on Friday so we'll see what tomorrow brings. | | | |
| McNulty's comments on 22:33 - Jul 30 with 2615 views | Marjorie_Plane |
I just want my football club back …. Please! |  | | |
| McNulty's comments on 22:55 - Jul 30 with 2557 views | nordenblue |
| McNulty's comments on 19:59 - Jul 30 by TalkingSutty |
Good post. If the board don't issue full disclosure to shareholders, and the motion isn't carried, what do you think the shareholders/ Trust/ fans should do then? The Chairman and Director have already indicated that the probable outcome will then be liquidation. What does everybody else on the forum think should happen? It's all too much of a gamble for me, even if they struck lucky and found a investor, what sort of investor would it be and would they then have to be accepted into the club through desperation? The other part of the gamble is probable liquidation. It's not a difficult decision for me, i think we should try to row our own boat. [Post edited 30 Jul 2023 20:20]
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I've not received a single email from the club for weeks and weeks, as a shareholder I'm guessing that's not quite right with all this brewing? | | | |
| McNulty's comments on 23:06 - Jul 30 with 2522 views | wozzrafc |
| McNulty's comments on 20:23 - Jul 30 by dawlishdale |
I'm not entirely sure. I thought they needed 75% of votes to be in favour of the proposal for it to be carried.
What i really want is for the board to see a bit of sense and tell shareholders the details of what they are proposing in advance.
I also don't want the fans forum to be dominated by discussion of the EGM although I think that's now inevitable. |
Unfortunately I think your right. The fans need to ask difficult questions if the board are not prepared to give more details upfront. I understand that some information is financially sensitive and should be reserved for shareholders but this EGM has been arranged at such short notice people need an every opportunity to consider such an important decision.
Needs must. If the forum is the only time that the BoD can beheld to account then so be it.
I feel sorry for BJ who would love this chance to build a relationship with the fans ahead of the new season and try and build some positive momentum.
Someone at the club needs to get a grip of this situation and start to treat the fans and shareholders with respect . I urge the board to consider Most fans are reasonable and will listen if presented with the facts. But never take them for granted or worse still for fools. [Post edited 30 Jul 2023 23:07]
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| McNulty's comments on 00:03 - Jul 31 with 2431 views | mikehunt |
I haven't had any correspondence regarding the EGM either. Have emailed Mr Delves about it.
This is deja vu all over again: We fought hard to wrest the ground from the slimey one's clutches, only to find ourselves in the same situation.
I get that, somehow, we have run out of money (after being assured that we were now being run prudently) yet now find we need significant finances to steady ourselves until erm .... well what precisely?
We need to be assured that the ground is not at long term risk by some legal chicanery in the small print. The very thing we, as shareholders and fans are not being allowed to consider.
As an aside, they built 50 houses on Rossendale Utd's old ground. Our ground is worth a lot of money to a developer. [Post edited 31 Jul 2023 0:11]
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| The worm of time turns not for the cuckoo of circumstance. |
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| McNulty's comments on 06:09 - Jul 31 with 2321 views | TalkingSutty |
| McNulty's comments on 23:06 - Jul 30 by wozzrafc |
Unfortunately I think your right. The fans need to ask difficult questions if the board are not prepared to give more details upfront. I understand that some information is financially sensitive and should be reserved for shareholders but this EGM has been arranged at such short notice people need an every opportunity to consider such an important decision.
Needs must. If the forum is the only time that the BoD can beheld to account then so be it.
I feel sorry for BJ who would love this chance to build a relationship with the fans ahead of the new season and try and build some positive momentum.
Someone at the club needs to get a grip of this situation and start to treat the fans and shareholders with respect . I urge the board to consider Most fans are reasonable and will listen if presented with the facts. But never take them for granted or worse still for fools. [Post edited 30 Jul 2023 23:07]
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One thing that is concerning is the lack of comment and direction from the Supporters Trust. We now have a proper crisis on our hands. I don't think it's good enough to suggest that the Trust committee are there to just deliver a message on behalf of their members. I see that as not wanting to choose sides and trying to keep a foot in both camps. That's not what a supporters Trust is there to do. The ST exists to look after the football club and ultimately put its best interests first. If the club is in danger or there is a feeling that its existence is being threatened then they speak up and show leadership..advise their members and sound the alarm bells loud and clear. Have we seen that?
I don't understand why Trust Committee members never stand up and ask searching questions at the fans forums, they would probably know the relevant questions better than anybody so why can't they do that? Why don't they do that on Thursday evening at the fans forum and the members can see them acting on their behalf at maybe the most important forum in th clubs history? They should be independent from those in the Boardroom and the forum is the perfect platform for them to also ask pertinent questions.
If this EGM had been called at any other club and the Chairman indicated that liquidation was on the horizon i don't believe that there would be no direction or a concerned statement from their supporters Trust, unfortunately that's what we've seen now for days, since the announcement. We will have some Trust members who are genuinely not capable of working things out for themselves, some will suffer with mental health, autism etc. I believe they want and need direction and opinion from the Trust Committe to help them when it comes to deciding which way to vote. It's not good enough as a supporters trust to just sit back , give no direction or more importantly opinion and leave it to the members to decide. If the Trust Committee think that a yes vote is the best option then come out and say it, make a reasoned argument and then give some sort of indication as to what the Trust, Shareholders, fans could do should liquidation look inevitable. To just sit back, do nothing and hope isn't a option, especially at a time when we have a Trust Director in the Boardroom. Once they do that then fans can still decide what they want to do. [Post edited 31 Jul 2023 7:42]
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| McNulty's comments on 07:28 - Jul 31 with 2244 views | D_Alien |
| McNulty's comments on 22:33 - Jul 30 by Marjorie_Plane |
I just want my football club back …. Please! |
For that to happen, i believe we'd need someone as Chairman who's "Dale from birth" |  |
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| McNulty's comments on 07:37 - Jul 31 with 2213 views | NorthernDale |
Many fans are speculating on what is going on, so of our fans have seem to have written our obituary already, but as fans, what we need is more information, is the money needed as a backstop to cover costs until we get money owed into the club through the EFL money or transfer fees or are seriously skint.
That is why the trust should seek a meeting with Simon to clarify the facts, I am not saying that the information should be publicised on the forum, because it could sensitive information. However if the trust governing body is satisfied and there are safeguards in place to protect the ground, then this would help fans decide to say yes or no to the proposal | | | |
| McNulty's comments on 07:55 - Jul 31 with 2176 views | TalkingSutty |
| McNulty's comments on 07:37 - Jul 31 by NorthernDale |
Many fans are speculating on what is going on, so of our fans have seem to have written our obituary already, but as fans, what we need is more information, is the money needed as a backstop to cover costs until we get money owed into the club through the EFL money or transfer fees or are seriously skint.
That is why the trust should seek a meeting with Simon to clarify the facts, I am not saying that the information should be publicised on the forum, because it could sensitive information. However if the trust governing body is satisfied and there are safeguards in place to protect the ground, then this would help fans decide to say yes or no to the proposal |
The Chairman and Director told us the other day in their statement. The injection of money,with conditions attached, is to buy us a bit more time to find a investor. If we dont find a investor then we are looking at liquidation. That's what they said. There was no mention of backstop, money owed, transfer fees. No mention of any other plan. It puts the ball in the shareholders and fans court. Maybe everybody is weary of the battle and would rather just take the gamble, accept the money and if we lose the club, we lose the club. It does wear you down after a while. | | | |
| McNulty's comments on 07:58 - Jul 31 with 2170 views | frenzied |
| McNulty's comments on 07:37 - Jul 31 by NorthernDale |
Many fans are speculating on what is going on, so of our fans have seem to have written our obituary already, but as fans, what we need is more information, is the money needed as a backstop to cover costs until we get money owed into the club through the EFL money or transfer fees or are seriously skint.
That is why the trust should seek a meeting with Simon to clarify the facts, I am not saying that the information should be publicised on the forum, because it could sensitive information. However if the trust governing body is satisfied and there are safeguards in place to protect the ground, then this would help fans decide to say yes or no to the proposal |
Spot on
What we need are facts from the horses mouth.
All this speculation and often vilification of certain individuals is not helpful purely generates a lot of heat and very little light.
I await the outcome of any meeting..all the nonsense on twitter etc is garbage. | | | |
| McNulty's comments on 08:39 - Jul 31 with 2107 views | DaleFan7 |
| McNulty's comments on 06:09 - Jul 31 by TalkingSutty |
One thing that is concerning is the lack of comment and direction from the Supporters Trust. We now have a proper crisis on our hands. I don't think it's good enough to suggest that the Trust committee are there to just deliver a message on behalf of their members. I see that as not wanting to choose sides and trying to keep a foot in both camps. That's not what a supporters Trust is there to do. The ST exists to look after the football club and ultimately put its best interests first. If the club is in danger or there is a feeling that its existence is being threatened then they speak up and show leadership..advise their members and sound the alarm bells loud and clear. Have we seen that?
I don't understand why Trust Committee members never stand up and ask searching questions at the fans forums, they would probably know the relevant questions better than anybody so why can't they do that? Why don't they do that on Thursday evening at the fans forum and the members can see them acting on their behalf at maybe the most important forum in th clubs history? They should be independent from those in the Boardroom and the forum is the perfect platform for them to also ask pertinent questions.
If this EGM had been called at any other club and the Chairman indicated that liquidation was on the horizon i don't believe that there would be no direction or a concerned statement from their supporters Trust, unfortunately that's what we've seen now for days, since the announcement. We will have some Trust members who are genuinely not capable of working things out for themselves, some will suffer with mental health, autism etc. I believe they want and need direction and opinion from the Trust Committe to help them when it comes to deciding which way to vote. It's not good enough as a supporters trust to just sit back , give no direction or more importantly opinion and leave it to the members to decide. If the Trust Committee think that a yes vote is the best option then come out and say it, make a reasoned argument and then give some sort of indication as to what the Trust, Shareholders, fans could do should liquidation look inevitable. To just sit back, do nothing and hope isn't a option, especially at a time when we have a Trust Director in the Boardroom. Once they do that then fans can still decide what they want to do. [Post edited 31 Jul 2023 7:42]
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This is exactly why I'm hesitant to renew my membership. I don't think the Trust (other than some of the good activities they do such as the curry nights etc) are separating themselves and holding the board to account enough, especially as the biggest shareholder.
On the other hand, I feel like as many people as possible need to vote on what the trust should vote as part of the EGM. | | | |
| McNulty's comments on 09:40 - Jul 31 with 2029 views | wozzrafc |
| McNulty's comments on 07:55 - Jul 31 by TalkingSutty |
The Chairman and Director told us the other day in their statement. The injection of money,with conditions attached, is to buy us a bit more time to find a investor. If we dont find a investor then we are looking at liquidation. That's what they said. There was no mention of backstop, money owed, transfer fees. No mention of any other plan. It puts the ball in the shareholders and fans court. Maybe everybody is weary of the battle and would rather just take the gamble, accept the money and if we lose the club, we lose the club. It does wear you down after a while. |
“ The injection of money,with conditions attached, is to buy us a bit more time to find a investor. If we dont find a investor then we are looking at liquidation.”
That’s not what he said. The only time they mentioned liquidation was in terms of when the loan would be paid in the case of the worse case scenario.
If you read the statement there is no reference to what would happen if the loan option is not taken.
The only reference there is is to the fact the loan is to provide additional funds.
The fact is we don’t know, and that’s why we need clarification on the situation. | | | |
| McNulty's comments on 09:55 - Jul 31 with 1977 views | 100notout |
| McNulty's comments on 07:55 - Jul 31 by TalkingSutty |
The Chairman and Director told us the other day in their statement. The injection of money,with conditions attached, is to buy us a bit more time to find a investor. If we dont find a investor then we are looking at liquidation. That's what they said. There was no mention of backstop, money owed, transfer fees. No mention of any other plan. It puts the ball in the shareholders and fans court. Maybe everybody is weary of the battle and would rather just take the gamble, accept the money and if we lose the club, we lose the club. It does wear you down after a while. |
“If we dont find a investor then we are looking at liquidation. That's what they said.”
No that’s not what they said at all and that is a very misleading and dangerous comment. Go back and read the statement.
Don’t get me wrong I have no confidence in this board. They have shown themselves to be unable to run a football club and they are Treating the fans with contempt. I wonder what Graham Morris thinks of all this? After all he is still holding a relatively large number of shares | |
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| McNulty's comments on 09:59 - Jul 31 with 1963 views | wozzrafc |
| McNulty's comments on 09:55 - Jul 31 by 100notout |
“If we dont find a investor then we are looking at liquidation. That's what they said.”
No that’s not what they said at all and that is a very misleading and dangerous comment. Go back and read the statement.
Don’t get me wrong I have no confidence in this board. They have shown themselves to be unable to run a football club and they are Treating the fans with contempt. I wonder what Graham Morris thinks of all this? After all he is still holding a relatively large number of shares |
Great minds 😉 | | | |
| McNulty's comments on 10:04 - Jul 31 with 1931 views | D_Alien |
The obvious route, should the EGM vote fail, is to place the club into administration, which (in my limited understanding of these matters) isn't the same as liquidation
Those with any major interests (including the Trust) should be making plans as we speak [Post edited 31 Jul 2023 10:09]
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| McNulty's comments on 10:19 - Jul 31 with 1870 views | _Windydale |
My simplistic theory which is a complete guess, because im completely on the outside and don't mix with any cliques
I'm hoping the reason for vagueness and the lack of information, and also the quietness of the trust regarding its opinions. Is that we are very close to getting a good investor which is obviously the preferred option. Not a done deal yet but close.
However we have to show we have a plan b if it falls through it.might stop any stalling for a cheaper deal. and that we CAN wait for more investors, by providing this proposal to lend money to see us ticking along for a season.
Lack of detail could be because it's a backup plan of action, but not the main thrust of boards attention lately. | | | |
| McNulty's comments on 10:33 - Jul 31 with 1808 views | DaleFan7 |
| McNulty's comments on 10:04 - Jul 31 by D_Alien |
The obvious route, should the EGM vote fail, is to place the club into administration, which (in my limited understanding of these matters) isn't the same as liquidation
Those with any major interests (including the Trust) should be making plans as we speak [Post edited 31 Jul 2023 10:09]
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I think that would depend of the level of debt the club is in and who its owed to. At our last accounts we had creditors of roughly £1.1m but assets of around £3m including the stadium, debtors etc. Have we started to default on that debt and are we currently running as insolvent? If we are, surely the 2023 accounts would have to be signed as something other than a going concern and then we'd know more about it. Last year's accounts weren't signed until 31 March 2023 though.
The other option would be to enter a CVA like Bury did if we can't pay creditors but I think they'd argue that we have enough assets to pay them off given the worth of the ground.
If we are still solvent given we have more assets than liabilities then their other option would be to enter into voluntary liquidation and pay everyone off and give the shareholders whatever is left after that.
It's been touted that they are wanting to recover what was paid for the shares they bought (I'm not close enough to it so don't actually know if this is the case) but surely the shares in a struggling non-league club are not worth the same as one in the football league. | | | |
| McNulty's comments on 10:40 - Jul 31 with 1768 views | judd |
| McNulty's comments on 10:33 - Jul 31 by DaleFan7 |
I think that would depend of the level of debt the club is in and who its owed to. At our last accounts we had creditors of roughly £1.1m but assets of around £3m including the stadium, debtors etc. Have we started to default on that debt and are we currently running as insolvent? If we are, surely the 2023 accounts would have to be signed as something other than a going concern and then we'd know more about it. Last year's accounts weren't signed until 31 March 2023 though.
The other option would be to enter a CVA like Bury did if we can't pay creditors but I think they'd argue that we have enough assets to pay them off given the worth of the ground.
If we are still solvent given we have more assets than liabilities then their other option would be to enter into voluntary liquidation and pay everyone off and give the shareholders whatever is left after that.
It's been touted that they are wanting to recover what was paid for the shares they bought (I'm not close enough to it so don't actually know if this is the case) but surely the shares in a struggling non-league club are not worth the same as one in the football league. |
The deadline for filing limited company accounts at Companies House is 9 months after our financial year ends, which is 30th June. |  |
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| McNulty's comments on 11:23 - Jul 31 with 1637 views | TalkingSutty |
| McNulty's comments on 09:55 - Jul 31 by 100notout |
“If we dont find a investor then we are looking at liquidation. That's what they said.”
No that’s not what they said at all and that is a very misleading and dangerous comment. Go back and read the statement.
Don’t get me wrong I have no confidence in this board. They have shown themselves to be unable to run a football club and they are Treating the fans with contempt. I wonder what Graham Morris thinks of all this? After all he is still holding a relatively large number of shares |
That's the jist of their message should a yes vote not be carried and and they don't find a investor. The Chairman did mention liquidation. I concede that they didn't say it in as many words but thats how many have interpreted the statement. It's disappointing that there was no mention of running the club properly and employing staff who can do the basics right. | | | |
| McNulty's comments on 11:43 - Jul 31 with 1570 views | kel |
| McNulty's comments on 10:19 - Jul 31 by _Windydale |
My simplistic theory which is a complete guess, because im completely on the outside and don't mix with any cliques
I'm hoping the reason for vagueness and the lack of information, and also the quietness of the trust regarding its opinions. Is that we are very close to getting a good investor which is obviously the preferred option. Not a done deal yet but close.
However we have to show we have a plan b if it falls through it.might stop any stalling for a cheaper deal. and that we CAN wait for more investors, by providing this proposal to lend money to see us ticking along for a season.
Lack of detail could be because it's a backup plan of action, but not the main thrust of boards attention lately. |
Talk of “cliques” doesn’t help anybody really does it? |  | | |
| McNulty's comments on 12:11 - Jul 31 with 1447 views | 100notout |
| McNulty's comments on 11:23 - Jul 31 by TalkingSutty |
That's the jist of their message should a yes vote not be carried and and they don't find a investor. The Chairman did mention liquidation. I concede that they didn't say it in as many words but thats how many have interpreted the statement. It's disappointing that there was no mention of running the club properly and employing staff who can do the basics right. |
I disagree thats not the gist of their message. If you were lending me say £100k you would want something to fall back on would you not? e.g. a charge over my house so that IF and I say again IF I do not/cannot pay you back then you are able to recover your money. That's not to say I wouldn't pay you back.
They should never have used the word liquidation because that just fuels speculation - just another of the many cock-ups they have made.
As somebody said - liquidation is a good way down the track - before that we would have to go into administration - as bad as that would be at least then we would have full disclosure. | |
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| McNulty's comments on 12:33 - Jul 31 with 1351 views | TalkingSutty |
| McNulty's comments on 12:11 - Jul 31 by 100notout |
I disagree thats not the gist of their message. If you were lending me say £100k you would want something to fall back on would you not? e.g. a charge over my house so that IF and I say again IF I do not/cannot pay you back then you are able to recover your money. That's not to say I wouldn't pay you back.
They should never have used the word liquidation because that just fuels speculation - just another of the many cock-ups they have made.
As somebody said - liquidation is a good way down the track - before that we would have to go into administration - as bad as that would be at least then we would have full disclosure. |
When the Chairman mentions lending the club money on condition that the very thing that protects the club is compromised, and then mentions liquidation in the same statement, as shareholders and supporters you have to look at the worst case scenario from the clubs perspective. The club is more important than any individual. A Chairman who mentions liquidation as a possible scenario ( that's what he did) should be prepared to be scrutinised by the shareholders. To not do so wouldn't be right. [Post edited 31 Jul 2023 12:34]
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