| Time to go 16:53 - Dec 12 with 24575 views | DubaiR |
Worst start in 6 seasons. 1 win in 8. We are not making progress.
Yes sold eze and lost others but also spent 8 million.
No clue today, another turgid performance |  | | |  |
| Time to go on 17:22 - Dec 19 with 1273 views | stowmarketrange |
| Time to go on 14:19 - Dec 18 by Antti_Heinola |
Good points dave, but would say Barnsley might say the same about us were the situation reversed.
I think the stuff abotu the year of development is a bit overly simplistic, but it is certainly what the club are aiming for.
In some ways, the club has moved I think a fairly momentous distance in a few short years. I would say in about 2016 we were all talking about how we hadn't sold a player for real money since Crouch. That's changed, and dramatically. Around the same time, we were saying we hadn't had a proper youth team graduate since Langley. That has changed, and to the extent that it's been regular for us in the last 18 months to field half a side that has graduated from youth age groups. That is phenomenal change in actually a very short space of time.
Yet at the same time, as that process begins to work and we begin to sell for proper money that we can re-invest, we naturally expect immediate results. Someone said we need to be improving every season, well, I'm afraid no club improves every season. There can be setbacks, there can be great leaps forward, then a falling away. It's not easy, and sometimes you need to be able to look at the bigger picture, not just the next two months (this is the view of too many fans: most years we get calls for getting in Mick McCarthy 'to the end of the season', it seems, but this is dangerous short term thinking).
Now let's take Warnock at the club where he spent the longest - Sheff U. His placings were:
16th, 10th, 13th, 3rd, 8th, 8th, 2nd
Now, plus side, never even close to relegation, but under those finishes, under paramaters offered by some of our fans, he'd have been out in Season 3 (not improving year on year, going backwards), and probably Season 5 (stagnating, no improvement). It took him several years to get the team into the Prem, but consistency and belief helped him do it.
Now, is Warbs as good a manager as Warnock? In terms of overall football management, no. In terms of bettering young players specifically, I'd say probably yes (at Sheff U, after clearing out some dead wood in his first season, he went 5 years without selling anyone for any sort of fee until Jagielka was sold just after he left - that says a great deal about his (effective) style (also in evidence when with us)), but in most other respects, Warnock is a better manager. We should question, we should be wondering why we are this low and on such a poor run when he actually had money to spend this season, but I think we can do that without over-simplifying how football clubs work (ie: just buy players at a better stage of development; we should be improving every year) - things are simply not that easy - or everyone would be doing it.
HunterHoop will say anticipate and act early... but what if this season players bed in, Dykes improves and starts scoring in March, and grabs 6 from open play in the last 10 games, and then next season we reinvest again and we're looking at top 8 next season? I get for us this is season after season of roughly the same thing (see Bristol below), but do we punish the current manager for the 'failings' of the previous 4 or 5?
You mention Bristol (a club never promoted to the Prem, mind) as an example, but their last few finishes have been:
18, 17, 11, 8, 12
I mean, that's not a million miles from our record of the last five seasons is it? An 8th placed finish would be wonderful of course, but let's not pretend they're some sort of super club doing amazing things we're not.
The Dykes issue is an interesting one. To me, he looks a good player, and what we needed - a sort of battering ram for the front three behind to play off, as Helguson once was (although he's not at Heidar's level (yet), by any means). Early signs were that's what he was, but he's lacking confidence, he's missing great chances, and his movement and positioning in the box is not helping us. Look at Hugill's goal v Brum last season at home. Look at the near post run he makes for Bright. I'm not sure I've seen Dykes make a near post run all season. I could be wrong, but for all the chat that Chair and BOS don't pass to him, there are very few times when there aren't two defenders between them and him.
There's nothing wrong in questioning, and maybe this whole thread will be moot when Ainsworth's determined side beat us tomorrow, but every appointment we as fans say 'time for consistency, time for something long term, and if we're not top 6 in 18 months, then the manager has to go. It's crazy. |
Every team in this league gets an advantage that we don’t get.They all get to play charity park rangers twice a season. |  | | |
| Time to go on 17:27 - Dec 19 with 1246 views | Antti_Heinola |
Was out trying to have a bit of Christmas cheer, so (thankfully) missed the game.
I still wouldn't get rid, but judging from comments, I'm in a tiny minority and it doesn't sound like there's much of a defence for him now.
Frustrating. At half time v Brentford we had just had two good results and had been the better side and should have gone on to win the game. Since then, 30mins v Bristol C apart, we've lacked confidence and looked poor throughout, Chair, Dickie and Dieng accepted.
Wouldn't be surprised if he went soon, and when I feel like that, as I'm always one of the last to tip, the manager rarely lasts much longer.
Big question is, who thefk next? Whoever it is needs to get as much as they can for BOS and buy a CDM, a left back and a CB. Maybe even a RB. And hope to god they can get a tune out of Dykes/Bonne/Kelman. |  |
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| Time to go on 17:36 - Dec 19 with 1182 views | Match82 |
| Time to go on 17:27 - Dec 19 by Antti_Heinola |
Was out trying to have a bit of Christmas cheer, so (thankfully) missed the game.
I still wouldn't get rid, but judging from comments, I'm in a tiny minority and it doesn't sound like there's much of a defence for him now.
Frustrating. At half time v Brentford we had just had two good results and had been the better side and should have gone on to win the game. Since then, 30mins v Bristol C apart, we've lacked confidence and looked poor throughout, Chair, Dickie and Dieng accepted.
Wouldn't be surprised if he went soon, and when I feel like that, as I'm always one of the last to tip, the manager rarely lasts much longer.
Big question is, who thefk next? Whoever it is needs to get as much as they can for BOS and buy a CDM, a left back and a CB. Maybe even a RB. And hope to god they can get a tune out of Dykes/Bonne/Kelman. |
I wouldn't say it's a tiny majority antii but over the last 2-3 games a lot of people have tipped from "he'll definitely turn this around" to being on the edge.
The biggest concern I have is that going forwards we just don't seem to be playing as a team and for each other, just a bunch hh of individuals. That's not a very Warburton style and if he can't talk the team into doing that, then his influence becomes a bit worthless. |  | | |
| Time to go on 17:43 - Dec 19 with 1151 views | danehoop |
What worries me in all the calls for Warbs to go is that there isnt a lot out there to replace him that looks any better at the moment. I think just be careful what you wish for. The team has lost confidence and shape. Some players are not playing as they should (BOS) which is now probably the time to drop them, but we don't exactly have a great depth of squad to replace them.
Taking off both of our ball playing skilled midfielders today, presumably to get the extra striker on and get additional service into box just didn't work. Otherwise I can only assume that there was something else at play with fitness or knocks that we don't know about. The team just didnt respond to the Plan B, and that worries me.
I'm not sure what the answer is, but think that it feels as if the loss of Amos at just the wrong moment has ripped the heart out of Warburton's plans. We haven't really recovered from losing the box to box ball winner to support defence into attack. Chair and LTC aside, no-one has really stepped up. BOS just seems to be going through the motions, Dykes is largely starved of decent chances and Bonne is struggling to take up the slack. The defence is exposed by Cameron's lack of speed and Barbet's inconsistency.
I'd certainly be looking to bring in some of the younger players like Bettache and Kelman just to start freshening think up. If BOS is leaving and Bonne doesn't look yet ready to step up then try another angle, |  |
| Never knowingly understood |
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| Time to go on 17:44 - Dec 19 with 1142 views | actonman |
| Time to go on 17:27 - Dec 19 by Antti_Heinola |
Was out trying to have a bit of Christmas cheer, so (thankfully) missed the game.
I still wouldn't get rid, but judging from comments, I'm in a tiny minority and it doesn't sound like there's much of a defence for him now.
Frustrating. At half time v Brentford we had just had two good results and had been the better side and should have gone on to win the game. Since then, 30mins v Bristol C apart, we've lacked confidence and looked poor throughout, Chair, Dickie and Dieng accepted.
Wouldn't be surprised if he went soon, and when I feel like that, as I'm always one of the last to tip, the manager rarely lasts much longer.
Big question is, who thefk next? Whoever it is needs to get as much as they can for BOS and buy a CDM, a left back and a CB. Maybe even a RB. And hope to god they can get a tune out of Dykes/Bonne/Kelman. |
Antti , he has been out thought by every manager we have come up against for the past 3 months, he has no plan b apart from plan a part 2 . No interest . No fkn nothing . Reading was the last straw for me , they turned up and didn’t even fkin* try to score and yet won 1 - 0.
I’m sure he knows a bit more than me regarding football management so it looks like he has given up or don’t give a sh!t so he can get the fcuk out of our club ASAP |  | | |
| Time to go on 17:48 - Dec 19 with 1088 views | dm97 |
Need to find someone to just see us to the end of the season and then do a proper recruitment process. I, admittedly, do not know who fits the bill. LF ought to. But now fully agree, 8 wins in 38 since March is 24th form let alone relegation. |  | | |
| Time to go on 17:59 - Dec 19 with 1016 views | DannytheR |
| Time to go on 17:27 - Dec 19 by Antti_Heinola |
Was out trying to have a bit of Christmas cheer, so (thankfully) missed the game.
I still wouldn't get rid, but judging from comments, I'm in a tiny minority and it doesn't sound like there's much of a defence for him now.
Frustrating. At half time v Brentford we had just had two good results and had been the better side and should have gone on to win the game. Since then, 30mins v Bristol C apart, we've lacked confidence and looked poor throughout, Chair, Dickie and Dieng accepted.
Wouldn't be surprised if he went soon, and when I feel like that, as I'm always one of the last to tip, the manager rarely lasts much longer.
Big question is, who thefk next? Whoever it is needs to get as much as they can for BOS and buy a CDM, a left back and a CB. Maybe even a RB. And hope to god they can get a tune out of Dykes/Bonne/Kelman. |
Think with hindsight (and we might already be at the hindsight stage) it's Dykes and Bonne that have done for him. No-one sane was expecting miracles straight away but where they should be showing some signs of getting used to the level, we're knocking on for halfway through the season and they both now actually look worse with every game.
It isn't just the lack of goals (although the lack of goals is not a small problem.) They're dragging the team down with them - you could see the other players visibly deflate every time they failed to control a ball into the box, failed to even read it was even coming, or sprinted offside as if they were doing it for a bet.
You can get away with having weak links in other positions, but when your number 9 is a passenger and his understudy has the positional sense of a dog playing fetch, it's all a bit fkd. |  | | |
| Time to go on 18:02 - Dec 19 with 996 views | stowmarketrange |
| Time to go on 17:48 - Dec 19 by dm97 |
Need to find someone to just see us to the end of the season and then do a proper recruitment process. I, admittedly, do not know who fits the bill. LF ought to. But now fully agree, 8 wins in 38 since March is 24th form let alone relegation. |
Not if you draw the other 30 games. | | | |
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| Time to go on 18:06 - Dec 19 with 974 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Time to go on 18:02 - Dec 19 by stowmarketrange |
Not if you draw the other 30 games. |
But we haven't though.... |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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