| Covid Figures Exaggerated 09:19 - Jul 19 with 21631 views | Boris_ |
Who would have thought it?
Scotland and Wales classing anyone who had Covid with in 28 days of dying as a Covid death, regardless of their actual cause of death.
In England, we are classing anyone who has ever tested positive for Covid as a covid death. So someone could have have tested positive in February and get run over by a bus today, and they will be added to the list of Covid deaths.
As I have said all along, the numbers are fabricated and exaggerated. History will show that we performed as well, if not better than most of the large European countries ( which will upset some on here )
Cancer Research UK are predicting that the lack of urgent care and referrals could contribute up to 35,000 excess deaths as well.
Heart conditions etc also contributing to excess deaths.
The truth is unraveling.
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 11:40 - Jul 22 with 953 views | Bison |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 11:17 - Jul 22 by DorsetIan |
The issue is not influence per se. It is undisclosed influence. Obama was not sneaking around - he said what he said and many people were put off by it and the fact of him saying it.
If Putin had come our and said I think a Trump presidency is a great idea, the US people could have taken or left what he said. But given that most people would have been a little suspicious about anything that Putin wanted, that might not have had the desired result. Far better to try to influence from the shadows where noone can judge the motives of the influencer.
It's interesting that all the Brexit supporting cry-babies are now bending over backwards to dismiss anything that could reduce the legitimacy of the Brexit vote.
What they should be wondering is why did Putin want what they voted for? |
Oh I see , so the thick leavers were unfairly influenced by the Russians and I reversely affected by Obama whilst the remainers never fell for the Russians ( or Scots by the looks in their referendum ) and thought obama was spot.
Thanks for explaining it to me Ian . I was under the impression that trying to influence the will of the British people through misinformation and threats was just wrong. |  |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 11:45 - Jul 22 with 942 views | JaySaint |
so, EU and US influence in our elections - fine
Sneaky russian influence (that cannot be proved - bad and cancel all elections (ie, Brexit) |  |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 11:51 - Jul 22 with 934 views | Bison |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 11:45 - Jul 22 by JaySaint |
so, EU and US influence in our elections - fine
Sneaky russian influence (that cannot be proved - bad and cancel all elections (ie, Brexit) |
Rephrase that Jay as obviously if it's US with Trump influence that's also bad as he can't possibly mean we are at the front of the queue as our FRIEND Obama threatened us with going to the back of the queue and threatening our economy if we didn't vote the way he wanted.
As I said I don't have a clue what a twitter Russian bot would look like so out of interest anyone got any examples of what they were saying ? The Obama hreat I watched on the telly with rest of the nation so it was pretty obvious the nature of the threat. | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 11:52 - Jul 22 with 933 views | DorsetIan |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 11:40 - Jul 22 by Bison |
Oh I see , so the thick leavers were unfairly influenced by the Russians and I reversely affected by Obama whilst the remainers never fell for the Russians ( or Scots by the looks in their referendum ) and thought obama was spot.
Thanks for explaining it to me Ian . I was under the impression that trying to influence the will of the British people through misinformation and threats was just wrong. |
I don't think you're that stupid, so if you can't acknowledge that there's a massive difference between open, attributed influence and secret, disguised influence, then you're being deliberately obtuse.
Doesn't really address my main point either does it. Do you not worry that what you want seems to align with the wishes of Vladimir Putin? If you don't, you should. | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 11:56 - Jul 22 with 928 views | DorsetIan |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 11:45 - Jul 22 by JaySaint |
so, EU and US influence in our elections - fine
Sneaky russian influence (that cannot be proved - bad and cancel all elections (ie, Brexit) |
Certainly can't be proved if you don't look for it - and the report yesterday was saying that the UK did not try very hard at all to look for it.
It has been proved in the US. There's no doubt that the Russians attempted to influence the last US election.
But if you're a Trump supporter (are you, still??!...) then you can, of course, write it off as fake news. | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:04 - Jul 22 with 924 views | Bison |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 11:52 - Jul 22 by DorsetIan |
I don't think you're that stupid, so if you can't acknowledge that there's a massive difference between open, attributed influence and secret, disguised influence, then you're being deliberately obtuse.
Doesn't really address my main point either does it. Do you not worry that what you want seems to align with the wishes of Vladimir Putin? If you don't, you should. |
The fact I agree with Putin on Brexit has nothing to do with it , I think it is beneficial to the UK and yes a EU without the UK is worse off , that's obvious and it's upto the EU to sort out their relationship with him. Putin would love NATO to dissolve but I certainly don't agree with him on that.
Putin wants the UK to split so does that mean the SNP are Putin supporters or that they should be worried about independence and drop it ?
We are just on different sides of this Brexit debate so Russian influence is not good nor is US when it comes to influencing the UK public in my opinion. I don't take your view that 1 is acceptable whilst the other is not , they are both wrong. | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:07 - Jul 22 with 914 views | JaySaint |
I dont think EU involvement in our internal democratic process is acceptable...but hey, matters little right? | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:19 - Jul 22 with 902 views | DorsetIan |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:04 - Jul 22 by Bison |
The fact I agree with Putin on Brexit has nothing to do with it , I think it is beneficial to the UK and yes a EU without the UK is worse off , that's obvious and it's upto the EU to sort out their relationship with him. Putin would love NATO to dissolve but I certainly don't agree with him on that.
Putin wants the UK to split so does that mean the SNP are Putin supporters or that they should be worried about independence and drop it ?
We are just on different sides of this Brexit debate so Russian influence is not good nor is US when it comes to influencing the UK public in my opinion. I don't take your view that 1 is acceptable whilst the other is not , they are both wrong. |
You're still being obtuse. One is open. One is underhand. Deny it if you want, but big difference.
Listening to Boris J at PMQs as I write. Like all of you on here, he simply ducks the difficult questions and waffles on with pre-planned gags and soundbites.
Russian report sat on for 10 months with no serious justification. Simply no answer from PM as to why.
Trump's obfuscation has only, finally, been busted by the cold facts of the thousands of unnecessary US deaths caused by his woeful handling of Covid there.
Boris' grandiloquent obfuscation will continue to pull the wool over eyes here too until the cold facts smack him in the face at some future point too. | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:38 - Jul 22 with 887 views | JaySaint |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:19 - Jul 22 by DorsetIan |
You're still being obtuse. One is open. One is underhand. Deny it if you want, but big difference.
Listening to Boris J at PMQs as I write. Like all of you on here, he simply ducks the difficult questions and waffles on with pre-planned gags and soundbites.
Russian report sat on for 10 months with no serious justification. Simply no answer from PM as to why.
Trump's obfuscation has only, finally, been busted by the cold facts of the thousands of unnecessary US deaths caused by his woeful handling of Covid there.
Boris' grandiloquent obfuscation will continue to pull the wool over eyes here too until the cold facts smack him in the face at some future point too. |
One thing is for certain, there were absolutely NO pro-EU bots all over social media...nope, none at all....nothing, nada, nil | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:43 - Jul 22 with 882 views | Boris_ |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:19 - Jul 22 by DorsetIan |
You're still being obtuse. One is open. One is underhand. Deny it if you want, but big difference.
Listening to Boris J at PMQs as I write. Like all of you on here, he simply ducks the difficult questions and waffles on with pre-planned gags and soundbites.
Russian report sat on for 10 months with no serious justification. Simply no answer from PM as to why.
Trump's obfuscation has only, finally, been busted by the cold facts of the thousands of unnecessary US deaths caused by his woeful handling of Covid there.
Boris' grandiloquent obfuscation will continue to pull the wool over eyes here too until the cold facts smack him in the face at some future point too. |
Nobody cares mush. It's just another thing for you to ball your eyes out to a bunch of strangers on a football forum about.
We are leaving the EU and there's nothing you can do about it.
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:44 - Jul 22 with 881 views | Boris_ |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:38 - Jul 22 by JaySaint |
One thing is for certain, there were absolutely NO pro-EU bots all over social media...nope, none at all....nothing, nada, nil |
It's only a matter of time before the extreme left start demanding a 'peoples vote' and say it was the Russians that caused Brexit and it's not the will of the people yada yada yads
Luckily for them, Boris has a huge majority and it will fall on death ears and we'll be out within 6 months.  | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:52 - Jul 22 with 871 views | Bison |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:19 - Jul 22 by DorsetIan |
You're still being obtuse. One is open. One is underhand. Deny it if you want, but big difference.
Listening to Boris J at PMQs as I write. Like all of you on here, he simply ducks the difficult questions and waffles on with pre-planned gags and soundbites.
Russian report sat on for 10 months with no serious justification. Simply no answer from PM as to why.
Trump's obfuscation has only, finally, been busted by the cold facts of the thousands of unnecessary US deaths caused by his woeful handling of Covid there.
Boris' grandiloquent obfuscation will continue to pull the wool over eyes here too until the cold facts smack him in the face at some future point too. |
I find you very condescending Ian I must say. You are definitely an expert over me regarding Russian bots as I have no idea what they said or whether they influenced anyone at all my guess is they were preaching to the converted so had little effect but feel free to accuse me of something else.
The Obama speech however I did see and you are right is was open , an open threat and that did offend me as it was a direct and open attempt to influence the citizens of the UK by threatening them with economic misery , you are also right that did influence the way I would of voted in the referendum ( I did not vote by the way ).
I presume they held onto the report as it would of been used to demand another referendum and try to continue the circus. Even James O'Brian who I presume you like said it would not of had any effect on Brexit. | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 13:22 - Jul 22 with 853 views | grumpy |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:44 - Jul 22 by Boris_ |
It's only a matter of time before the extreme left start demanding a 'peoples vote' and say it was the Russians that caused Brexit and it's not the will of the people yada yada yads
Luckily for them, Boris has a huge majority and it will fall on death ears and we'll be out within 6 months. |
Would you leave without a deal? |  | | |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 13:24 - Jul 22 with 851 views | DorsetIan |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:43 - Jul 22 by Boris_ |
Nobody cares mush. It's just another thing for you to ball your eyes out to a bunch of strangers on a football forum about.
We are leaving the EU and there's nothing you can do about it.
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A helpful contribution Boris.
I don't think you've made a point like for at least 5 or 10 minutes. I'd almost forgotten that was your view. | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 13:28 - Jul 22 with 844 views | JaySaint |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 13:22 - Jul 22 by grumpy |
Would you leave without a deal? |
yes. I would | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 13:34 - Jul 22 with 839 views | DorsetIan |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 12:52 - Jul 22 by Bison |
I find you very condescending Ian I must say. You are definitely an expert over me regarding Russian bots as I have no idea what they said or whether they influenced anyone at all my guess is they were preaching to the converted so had little effect but feel free to accuse me of something else.
The Obama speech however I did see and you are right is was open , an open threat and that did offend me as it was a direct and open attempt to influence the citizens of the UK by threatening them with economic misery , you are also right that did influence the way I would of voted in the referendum ( I did not vote by the way ).
I presume they held onto the report as it would of been used to demand another referendum and try to continue the circus. Even James O'Brian who I presume you like said it would not of had any effect on Brexit. |
It's not for me to educate you about the ways in which the Russians have attempted to influence politics in the West. The position in the US is well documented. You can read all about it yourself. I wouldn't want to be condescending.
Lots of people heard Obama and were put off by him getting involved. They could draw that conclusion because he wasn't sneaking around. The Russians know that they would have no influence if they were open about what they wanted, so they tried to influence under the radar.
It all very well to say they were preaching to the converted but why were they doing it, if it wasn't going to have any effect? Social media messaging is clearly a very powerful tool. Check out how much the Conservatives spent on it at the last election. | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 13:34 - Jul 22 with 839 views | Bazza |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 13:24 - Jul 22 by DorsetIan |
A helpful contribution Boris.
I don't think you've made a point like for at least 5 or 10 minutes. I'd almost forgotten that was your view. |
No-one can possibly quantify any impact the Russians did or didn't have on the referendum so you're flogging a dead horse.
Meanwhile in other news the Labour have to cough up £500,000 effectively for denial of anti-semitic behaviour - wonder if that, if known, would have had any influence on the General Election- another dead horse. | | | |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 13:38 - Jul 22 with 830 views | DorsetIan |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 13:34 - Jul 22 by Bazza |
No-one can possibly quantify any impact the Russians did or didn't have on the referendum so you're flogging a dead horse.
Meanwhile in other news the Labour have to cough up £500,000 effectively for denial of anti-semitic behaviour - wonder if that, if known, would have had any influence on the General Election- another dead horse. |
They managed to to quantify it in the US in relation to the US election, so you're just wrong about that. | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 13:55 - Jul 22 with 818 views | JaySaint |
how about EU meddling in the referendum and 2019 election?
when are we quantifying that? | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 13:59 - Jul 22 with 812 views | Bazza |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 13:38 - Jul 22 by DorsetIan |
They managed to to quantify it in the US in relation to the US election, so you're just wrong about that. |
I don't think there was any real quantification? | | | |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 14:01 - Jul 22 with 812 views | Sadoldgit |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 13:55 - Jul 22 by JaySaint |
how about EU meddling in the referendum and 2019 election?
when are we quantifying that? |
What did the EU do in the referendum exactly? I remember them saying they wish that they had faught their corner but stayed out of it. If they did meddle, they didn’t make a very good job of it did they?! |  | | |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 14:10 - Jul 22 with 809 views | DorsetIan |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 13:55 - Jul 22 by JaySaint |
how about EU meddling in the referendum and 2019 election?
when are we quantifying that? |
If they did it secretly by trying to manipulate social media, that would also be deserving of criticism.
Do you have evidence for secret EU bot factories or similar? | |
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 14:28 - Jul 22 with 794 views | JaySaint |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 14:10 - Jul 22 by DorsetIan |
If they did it secretly by trying to manipulate social media, that would also be deserving of criticism.
Do you have evidence for secret EU bot factories or similar? |
Oh, so overtly is fine then....?
they may have did so secretly, we just don't know about it..
[Post edited 22 Jul 2020 14:32]
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| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 14:34 - Jul 22 with 779 views | DorsetIan |
| Covid Figures Exaggerated on 14:28 - Jul 22 by JaySaint |
Oh, so overtly is fine then....?
they may have did so secretly, we just don't know about it..
[Post edited 22 Jul 2020 14:32]
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Yes open attempts to influence are fine. People are not stupid, if they know who the person trying to influence is, they are in a position to judge whether they have any vested interests and whether they are telling the truth. It's called open democratic debate.
Yes, I'm equally concerned about the attempts by New Zealand's Maori population to secretly influence the Brexit vote. There's no evidence that they did, but if they were doing it secretly... | |
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