| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 02:09 - Sep 17 with 9854 views | DannyPaddox |
Haha ... does this clownery have no end.
Ps: I respect LFW may be fed up with politics and the state of the nation (aren’t we all) but in the context of parliament being shut down and democracy being tested to the max it doesn’t look good there’s no politics on here. I suggest at the very least keep it to one thread. |  | | |  |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 20:09 - Sep 17 with 2482 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Has someone tied Clive up in a cupboard? |  | | |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 21:06 - Sep 17 with 2378 views | baldyoldgit |
ive got a qpr flag from the play off final. so what.
the currency makes trade easier, cheaper and financial rules simpler to follow and apply. if we'd have been in the euro it wouldn't have plunged like the pound has since the referendum and we'd have been much better off.
the parliament creates, checks and enforces rules. would you be happier if they just called it "big meeting place"?
Pfft about the army. we can veto it if we want. also, armies tend to have more rules than you can shake a stick at. i'm actually struggling to see whats wrong with an EU army anyway. probably makes economic sense. |  | | |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 21:34 - Sep 17 with 2338 views | Russian__Bot |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 19:23 - Sep 17 by WestbourneR |
Yes of course evil big business wants us to stay in the institution that has advanced workers rights and protections. They desperately want us to be a part of broadly left leaning liberal political and economic institution.
Meanwhile the working man's warriors Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Nigel Farage want to save us from the George Soros (yawn) conspiracy. And Russia really wants us to leave because they want what's best for us too. Putin has our best interests at heat.
This kind of 'logic' makes as much sense as the people who say the vested interests of scientists needing grants for their universities and research are driving a lie about climate change. As if those vested interest outweigh the OIL INDUSTRY. It's funny no one casts the same ridiculous doubts on the dangers of smoking. But I suppose if you see someone die in front of you from lung cancer it's harder to deny that the nebulous threat of climate change.
You only have to look at workers rights in the US (no statutory holiday and 6 WEEKS maternity) to imagine what a Britain might look like by now outside the EU. If only the people hating on it took the time to look into how much we've personally gained from membership.
We (were) the 4th biggest economy in the world - and that didn't happen by accident, that happened while we were in the EU. [Post edited 17 Sep 2019 19:30]
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This is a really complex question and workers rights is one part of it. I would say what the EU does best for big companies is create barriers to entry for new entrants to the market. Be that small start ups or non-EU nations competition
But that's too big a topic for here. The more simple point I believe you miss is this: the left leaning slant of EU is temporary and certainly not permanent. We are potentially tieing ourselves and future generations for good if we don't get out now and I would point to now: NF (Le Pen) 2nd biggest party in France, AfD far right second biggest and growing in Germany, Far right governments in Austria, Italy, Poland and Hungary.
Even if I were to accept your point on workers rights. What do you the next generation do when an economic crash hits and they elect the next Hitler, Mussolini or Franco? Or AfD and NF take power. Is it worth that risk?! If Boris and co change workers rights in a way we don't like we vote them out and change it
How would you stop a right or far right dominated commission? That's my concern
Fair enough you may disagree but I passionately believe you are looking at it in the wrong way | | | |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 21:37 - Sep 17 with 2332 views | Russian__Bot |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 19:34 - Sep 17 by isawqpratwcity |
I've tried to find that Jean Monnet quote source and it doesn't pop up anywhere except in quotes used to justify Brexit. I'd be obliged if you could indicate where Monnet originally expounds that.
Btw, I assume that you are also username "QPR", posting on myanimelist.net ? |
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/679277/History-EU-how-bureaucrats-seized
This article is one of many containing this quote. Which is also attributed to him by Lord Salisbury to Kate Hoey
I first read while studying at uni ago and two years ago in a City AM article I posted on this site before with that quote has been removed.
It has been counter claimed recently that its paraphrasing what he said. Which is a bizarre claim because if this is a direct quote of Hilton paraphrasing him it remains valid. It’s not in dispute that it’s a reflection of Monnet even if we take that bizarre claim at face calue
Original quotes off the internet from something in 1952... not a true barometer | | | |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 22:46 - Sep 17 with 2258 views | colinallcars |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 21:34 - Sep 17 by Russian__Bot |
This is a really complex question and workers rights is one part of it. I would say what the EU does best for big companies is create barriers to entry for new entrants to the market. Be that small start ups or non-EU nations competition
But that's too big a topic for here. The more simple point I believe you miss is this: the left leaning slant of EU is temporary and certainly not permanent. We are potentially tieing ourselves and future generations for good if we don't get out now and I would point to now: NF (Le Pen) 2nd biggest party in France, AfD far right second biggest and growing in Germany, Far right governments in Austria, Italy, Poland and Hungary.
Even if I were to accept your point on workers rights. What do you the next generation do when an economic crash hits and they elect the next Hitler, Mussolini or Franco? Or AfD and NF take power. Is it worth that risk?! If Boris and co change workers rights in a way we don't like we vote them out and change it
How would you stop a right or far right dominated commission? That's my concern
Fair enough you may disagree but I passionately believe you are looking at it in the wrong way |
You make it sound so easy to “vote the likes of Boris out” Thatcher took away workers' rights but people kept voting her in. She wasn't defeated at the polls at all. With politics in the mess it's in now, I shouldn't be surprised if Johnson went on and won election after election. |  | | |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 02:26 - Sep 18 with 2176 views | DavieQPR |
The whole Luxembourg protest was organised by a Canadian opera singer. They even have people who it has nothing to do with it poking their noses in now. |  | | |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 07:02 - Sep 18 with 2114 views | jonno |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 19:23 - Sep 17 by WestbourneR |
Yes of course evil big business wants us to stay in the institution that has advanced workers rights and protections. They desperately want us to be a part of broadly left leaning liberal political and economic institution.
Meanwhile the working man's warriors Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Nigel Farage want to save us from the George Soros (yawn) conspiracy. And Russia really wants us to leave because they want what's best for us too. Putin has our best interests at heat.
This kind of 'logic' makes as much sense as the people who say the vested interests of scientists needing grants for their universities and research are driving a lie about climate change. As if those vested interest outweigh the OIL INDUSTRY. It's funny no one casts the same ridiculous doubts on the dangers of smoking. But I suppose if you see someone die in front of you from lung cancer it's harder to deny that the nebulous threat of climate change.
You only have to look at workers rights in the US (no statutory holiday and 6 WEEKS maternity) to imagine what a Britain might look like by now outside the EU. If only the people hating on it took the time to look into how much we've personally gained from membership.
We (were) the 4th biggest economy in the world - and that didn't happen by accident, that happened while we were in the EU. [Post edited 17 Sep 2019 19:30]
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"We (were) the 4th biggest economy in the world - and that didn't happen by accident, that happened while we were in the EU."
Actually, it didn't. In 1960 the UK was the second largest economy in the world, well before it joined the EEC (later the EU). It was 4th when it joined the EU and is the 5th currently. |  | | |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 07:08 - Sep 18 with 2117 views | Northernr |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 20:09 - Sep 17 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Has someone tied Clive up in a cupboard? |
No, apparently it's not right that we don't have a thread as exciting, enlightened and useful as this at the top of the board while the team is playing the best football for ten years and we've just won three on the bounce - not that you hear from half the people on this thread about that of course - so I've decided to leave it in the hope that you'll realise how fcking thoroughly irritating threads like this are and it burns itself out. |  | | |
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| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 07:10 - Sep 18 with 2114 views | nix |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 22:46 - Sep 17 by colinallcars |
You make it sound so easy to “vote the likes of Boris out” Thatcher took away workers' rights but people kept voting her in. She wasn't defeated at the polls at all. With politics in the mess it's in now, I shouldn't be surprised if Johnson went on and won election after election. |
I agree with this. The number of people I've heard saying how amusing Boris is and how much they like him, rather than seeing it for what it is: a carefully designed shtick designed to distract us from his incompetence, lies, obfuscations and real motivations, He really has contempt for others but hides it with that smirk and people see it as a jovial bumbling good humour. But read what someone who know him really well says about him. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minist Hastings is not some rabid left winger but a former editor of the Daily Telegraph, so no axe to grind there.
Thatcher was similarly able to win people over despite the cost to them personally. She decimated communities, and made no attempt to repair them. Boris blames all this on the EU, it is the foreigner that is competing for your jobs that is to blame, not the governments that have consistently ignored them. She changed our view of our fellow man. We have been trained to be selfish, no such thing as society. And yet we also expect society to do everything for us, nanny tells us what to do. Our lack of social housing is not down to Jonny foreigner, as Boris would have us believe, but to Thatcher selling off the housing stock and banning the councils from rebuilding with the money raised.
She sold off Britain's public services, claiming that it would result in us owning them ourselves and promote competition and investment and not shackled by government, whereas in fact our water companies and railways cost us a lot more but it all goes to overseas investors, not into improving the services. I cannot remember ever having so many services cancelled as we have now and the cost of our rail journeys is astronomical compared to mainland Europe. Meanwhile our sewers still have holes in them and yet we pay considerably.
All this and the people who suffered most kept voting her in.
The banking crisis had its roots in part from the very lack of regulation (termed bureaucracy) that this government is seeking to promote through leaving the EU. They want to remove controls that prevent them from decimating workers' rights, They don't want a body like the EU that wants companies to pay more corporate taxes and prevent people hiding income generated in the UK in tax havens abroad, which is why Mr Cayman Islands himself, Jacob Rees Mogg, is such an arch Brexiteer. One of the biggest funders of Brexit promoters like Vote Leave, Robert Edmiston, has a personal address in Portugal and business interests registered in Malta and appeared in the Panama Papers. These people have vested interests in leaving the EU that have nothing to do with improving the lives of the working people of this country, but they will still be fooled by them because they own the media, like the Barclay brothers who own the Telegraph and live in the Channel Islands and Monaco and have their business interests in the British Virgin Islands. Or Rupert Murdoch who owns the Sun, The Times and all the Talk Sport franchise and lives in the US.
People think they are asserting their independence by voting Leave, not realising how they have been manipulated into it. Which is why so many people feel so strongly about it but can't really explain why. |  | | |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 07:27 - Sep 18 with 2081 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 07:10 - Sep 18 by nix |
I agree with this. The number of people I've heard saying how amusing Boris is and how much they like him, rather than seeing it for what it is: a carefully designed shtick designed to distract us from his incompetence, lies, obfuscations and real motivations, He really has contempt for others but hides it with that smirk and people see it as a jovial bumbling good humour. But read what someone who know him really well says about him. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/24/boris-johnson-prime-minist Hastings is not some rabid left winger but a former editor of the Daily Telegraph, so no axe to grind there.
Thatcher was similarly able to win people over despite the cost to them personally. She decimated communities, and made no attempt to repair them. Boris blames all this on the EU, it is the foreigner that is competing for your jobs that is to blame, not the governments that have consistently ignored them. She changed our view of our fellow man. We have been trained to be selfish, no such thing as society. And yet we also expect society to do everything for us, nanny tells us what to do. Our lack of social housing is not down to Jonny foreigner, as Boris would have us believe, but to Thatcher selling off the housing stock and banning the councils from rebuilding with the money raised.
She sold off Britain's public services, claiming that it would result in us owning them ourselves and promote competition and investment and not shackled by government, whereas in fact our water companies and railways cost us a lot more but it all goes to overseas investors, not into improving the services. I cannot remember ever having so many services cancelled as we have now and the cost of our rail journeys is astronomical compared to mainland Europe. Meanwhile our sewers still have holes in them and yet we pay considerably.
All this and the people who suffered most kept voting her in.
The banking crisis had its roots in part from the very lack of regulation (termed bureaucracy) that this government is seeking to promote through leaving the EU. They want to remove controls that prevent them from decimating workers' rights, They don't want a body like the EU that wants companies to pay more corporate taxes and prevent people hiding income generated in the UK in tax havens abroad, which is why Mr Cayman Islands himself, Jacob Rees Mogg, is such an arch Brexiteer. One of the biggest funders of Brexit promoters like Vote Leave, Robert Edmiston, has a personal address in Portugal and business interests registered in Malta and appeared in the Panama Papers. These people have vested interests in leaving the EU that have nothing to do with improving the lives of the working people of this country, but they will still be fooled by them because they own the media, like the Barclay brothers who own the Telegraph and live in the Channel Islands and Monaco and have their business interests in the British Virgin Islands. Or Rupert Murdoch who owns the Sun, The Times and all the Talk Sport franchise and lives in the US.
People think they are asserting their independence by voting Leave, not realising how they have been manipulated into it. Which is why so many people feel so strongly about it but can't really explain why. |
‘So many people feel strongly about it and don’t know why’
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| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 09:51 - Sep 18 with 1969 views | WestbourneR |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 07:02 - Sep 18 by jonno |
"We (were) the 4th biggest economy in the world - and that didn't happen by accident, that happened while we were in the EU."
Actually, it didn't. In 1960 the UK was the second largest economy in the world, well before it joined the EEC (later the EU). It was 4th when it joined the EU and is the 5th currently. |
Right so you don't think it's impressive that we've stayed in the top 5 since the 1960s when you consider the collapse of the British Empire and emergence of India and China since then? Not to mention Russia becoming a capitalist economy.
I fail to see how much higher you'd expect us to be, considering our size? I presume the wonderful new trade deals we're tearing up the Good Friday agreement to get are going to fire us to first spot?
No.
And this for me summarises the fallacy of Brexit. It's solving a problem that doesn't exist. [Post edited 18 Sep 2019 10:15]
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| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 12:04 - Sep 18 with 1868 views | derbyhoop |
Xavier Bettel's stunt on Monday was disrespectful to a visiting head of state. But it is symptomatic of EU politician's frustrations at UK's behaviour. Boris, the incredible Hulk, running away because 100 UK immigrants to Luxembourg, would have heckled him, was cowardly.
Over 3 years since the referendum and we know what we don't want but have no idea what we do want.
It's almost tempting to say that the UK should crash out without a deal, spent 3-6 months coming to terms with the consequences and, then, if it is damaging as UK govt analyses and 95% of leading economists expect, try to re-join on the same basis as we have today. But that cannot happen. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 12:32 - Sep 18 with 1836 views | stevec |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 12:04 - Sep 18 by derbyhoop |
Xavier Bettel's stunt on Monday was disrespectful to a visiting head of state. But it is symptomatic of EU politician's frustrations at UK's behaviour. Boris, the incredible Hulk, running away because 100 UK immigrants to Luxembourg, would have heckled him, was cowardly.
Over 3 years since the referendum and we know what we don't want but have no idea what we do want.
It's almost tempting to say that the UK should crash out without a deal, spent 3-6 months coming to terms with the consequences and, then, if it is damaging as UK govt analyses and 95% of leading economists expect, try to re-join on the same basis as we have today. But that cannot happen. |
I think you'll find it could, it's just the EU don't want to risk it.
As you say, why not honour the democratic vote, come out and if say after a year or two it's not working out then ask to come back in. That way the vote has been carried out, Remainers should at least be able to respect that, and if it failed I'm sure us Leavers would hold our hands up and accept it.
Simple reason that won't happen is the last thing the European Union wants is a country to show it can be successful outside and their whole project of political union falls apart. |  | | |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 13:10 - Sep 18 with 1784 views | derbyhoop |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 12:32 - Sep 18 by stevec |
I think you'll find it could, it's just the EU don't want to risk it.
As you say, why not honour the democratic vote, come out and if say after a year or two it's not working out then ask to come back in. That way the vote has been carried out, Remainers should at least be able to respect that, and if it failed I'm sure us Leavers would hold our hands up and accept it.
Simple reason that won't happen is the last thing the European Union wants is a country to show it can be successful outside and their whole project of political union falls apart. |
Sorry Steve. I said it couldn't happen and I stick by that.
The UK has too many special exemptions from EU law that would never be offered (don't go there!) if the UK wanted to re-join. And, I'm not sure the EU would be keen to have us back, given the shambolic approach of the last 3 years, unless we were more enthusiastic about membership than we have been for the last 10-20 years. Would the UK be prepared to sign up to the SM, and its 4 freedoms? Would the UK still want to try and conduct its own deals, invalidating the CU? Could the EU be sure that the UK wouldn't be disruptive and/or ambivalent about its membership? | |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 13:31 - Sep 18 with 1761 views | isawqpratwcity |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 21:37 - Sep 17 by Russian__Bot |
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/679277/History-EU-how-bureaucrats-seized
This article is one of many containing this quote. Which is also attributed to him by Lord Salisbury to Kate Hoey
I first read while studying at uni ago and two years ago in a City AM article I posted on this site before with that quote has been removed.
It has been counter claimed recently that its paraphrasing what he said. Which is a bizarre claim because if this is a direct quote of Hilton paraphrasing him it remains valid. It’s not in dispute that it’s a reflection of Monnet even if we take that bizarre claim at face calue
Original quotes off the internet from something in 1952... not a true barometer |
Yes, I've seen the quote repeated frequently, but that Express article isn't sufficient attribution for me. Pass. |  |
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| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 16:09 - Sep 18 with 1647 views | jonno |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 09:51 - Sep 18 by WestbourneR |
Right so you don't think it's impressive that we've stayed in the top 5 since the 1960s when you consider the collapse of the British Empire and emergence of India and China since then? Not to mention Russia becoming a capitalist economy.
I fail to see how much higher you'd expect us to be, considering our size? I presume the wonderful new trade deals we're tearing up the Good Friday agreement to get are going to fire us to first spot?
No.
And this for me summarises the fallacy of Brexit. It's solving a problem that doesn't exist. [Post edited 18 Sep 2019 10:15]
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I'm not expecting anything. What I'm saying is that you are implying that the UK is only as high up the economic league table because it is in the EU, and that is patently untrue as it was always one of the most successful economies well before that. There is no way of knowing absolutely where the UK might be had it not joined the EEC. | | | |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 11:03 - Sep 19 with 1357 views | JAPRANGERS |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 07:08 - Sep 18 by Northernr |
No, apparently it's not right that we don't have a thread as exciting, enlightened and useful as this at the top of the board while the team is playing the best football for ten years and we've just won three on the bounce - not that you hear from half the people on this thread about that of course - so I've decided to leave it in the hope that you'll realise how fcking thoroughly irritating threads like this are and it burns itself out. |
I was under the impression that political threads were banned now??
Politics just divide peeps.
QPR brings us all together.
You RRRRRRRRRRRRRRSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!! |  | | |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 12:03 - Sep 19 with 1306 views | peterlund_dk |
As a non-brit and not following any British media:
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| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 12:18 - Sep 19 with 1291 views | Mick_S |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 08:34 - Sep 19 by Northolt_Rs |
We beat Luton at the weekend - just in case any of the posters on this thread didn’t know!!!!!  [Post edited 19 Sep 2019 8:36]
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It was great but the bloke next to me was a compulsive nose picker.
Might have been nerves.
Edit: It wasn't my son, it was the person in the other seat next to me. [Post edited 19 Sep 2019 12:21]
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| Did I ever mention that I was in Minder? |
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| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 19:41 - Sep 19 with 1155 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 07:08 - Sep 18 by Northernr |
No, apparently it's not right that we don't have a thread as exciting, enlightened and useful as this at the top of the board while the team is playing the best football for ten years and we've just won three on the bounce - not that you hear from half the people on this thread about that of course - so I've decided to leave it in the hope that you'll realise how fcking thoroughly irritating threads like this are and it burns itself out. |
Good luck with that. | | | |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 00:41 - Sep 20 with 1079 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Luxembourg 1 ‘England’ 0 on 21:06 - Sep 17 by baldyoldgit |
ive got a qpr flag from the play off final. so what.
the currency makes trade easier, cheaper and financial rules simpler to follow and apply. if we'd have been in the euro it wouldn't have plunged like the pound has since the referendum and we'd have been much better off.
the parliament creates, checks and enforces rules. would you be happier if they just called it "big meeting place"?
Pfft about the army. we can veto it if we want. also, armies tend to have more rules than you can shake a stick at. i'm actually struggling to see whats wrong with an EU army anyway. probably makes economic sense. |
The EU army thing is a special bit of europhobe nonsense. Trotted out like it means Jean-Claude Juncker will be driving through Horse Guards Parade in a tank next week.
We have a NATO army right now, more or less totally controlled by the USA. Unfortunately, the C in C of the US army is Donald Trump, which is the teeniest bit of a problem.
At some point the USA will bugger off to leave us to our own devices (and that's not a Trump thing, it was coming with both Dubya and Obama) at which point the remaining members of NATO i.e. Europe will need to sort out some sort of replacement. Some EU countries are already thinking that way, that's all. But people who either go loopy at the thought of the EU or want to kiss-ass to the Americans (for some reason often the same people) go all weird about it. | | | |
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