| Clydach murders on 23:21 - Oct 22 with 1956 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 23:06 - Oct 22 by britferry |
Why would a witness sit on evidence for 20 odd years?
I thought the first 2 witnesses were credible, the 3rd, was a joke and let the program down.
Would be interesting to see if that sock gets re-tested, seems a crucial piece of evidence. |
It isnt just that. Having local knowledge it just seems so far fetched that at the actual time 4am someone decides to walk over the mountain there is a car coming down. There is nothing up there except a few farms and an old chapel. It isnt even used as a short cut. You can get to Pontardawe that way but there isnt a pub or basically anything there just farms. |  | |  |
| Clydach murders on 23:45 - Oct 22 with 1921 views | Highjack |
| Clydach murders on 22:56 - Oct 22 by Gowerjack |
Yep
You're right
You don't know an awful lot about this case.. |
Yes which is why I said I don’t know an awful lot about this case. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 23:56 - Oct 22 with 1912 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 22:20 - Oct 22 by controversial_jack |
It's not the job of the police to prove innocence |
Disclosure has to be complete otherwise it’s an unfair trial. Which now looks to be the case. I didn’t realise that Morris wasn’t even a suspect for a year until the Lewis’s were eliminated from the police inquiries. That’s a long time for someone who seemed such a violent man to be then thought of as a possible suspect. He didn’t leave the pub til 11.30, had 8 pints inside him and speed and walked a half a mile or more , broke in, killed the old woman , changed a fuse in the house before Mandy and her daughters got home . All in 18 minutes. That’s what really got me thinking tonight. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 00:04 - Oct 23 with 1904 views | Jack123 |
Interesting, I wasn't very impressed with the fella who come forward after all this time, I would guess that counts for nothing!
But I wasn't aware of the bloody handprint found, that made me think. Surely some top guy could make sense of the handprint and either rule out morris, or prove his guilt beyond doubt. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 00:06 - Oct 23 with 1901 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 00:04 - Oct 23 by Jack123 |
Interesting, I wasn't very impressed with the fella who come forward after all this time, I would guess that counts for nothing!
But I wasn't aware of the bloody handprint found, that made me think. Surely some top guy could make sense of the handprint and either rule out morris, or prove his guilt beyond doubt. |
If it’s suppressed as evidence it’s surely illegal ? It’s disclosure to the jury could have had the case against Morris thrown out. | |
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| Clydach murders on 00:38 - Oct 23 with 1887 views | Jack123 |
| Clydach murders on 00:06 - Oct 23 by Brynmill_Jack |
If it’s suppressed as evidence it’s surely illegal ? It’s disclosure to the jury could have had the case against Morris thrown out. |
I would think so!! But didn't they say on the programme that the prosecution ruled that out or something like that? Surely the prosecution have no right to rule out damming evidence.
Edit, Did they say the jury were told to rule that out? [Post edited 23 Oct 2020 0:46]
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| Clydach murders on 00:53 - Oct 23 with 1879 views | Brian_Laudrup |
That e-fit, that hasn't been shown at either trial! | | | |
| Clydach murders on 01:43 - Oct 23 with 1859 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 00:53 - Oct 23 by Brian_Laudrup |
That e-fit, that hasn't been shown at either trial! |
Now that truly is staggering | |
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| Clydach murders on 02:15 - Oct 23 with 1851 views | Jack123 |
| Clydach murders on 01:43 - Oct 23 by Brynmill_Jack |
Now that truly is staggering |
It is, but it's also isn't, when you think about it, the defence case can hardly say, here's an efit it must have been him, he was there..That's the police job.
So i guess there is no way they could present an efit in court?
It wasn't him!! It was him..
And I will say,I could spend hours and hours on this, reading the evidence and it still makes no sense..
[Post edited 23 Oct 2020 2:28]
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| Clydach murders on 05:58 - Oct 23 with 1829 views | Brian_Laudrup |
| Clydach murders on 02:15 - Oct 23 by Jack123 |
It is, but it's also isn't, when you think about it, the defence case can hardly say, here's an efit it must have been him, he was there..That's the police job.
So i guess there is no way they could present an efit in court?
It wasn't him!! It was him..
And I will say,I could spend hours and hours on this, reading the evidence and it still makes no sense..
[Post edited 23 Oct 2020 2:28]
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"That's the police job."
I suppose it is, and it looks the spitting image of one of their officers. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 07:35 - Oct 23 with 1788 views | trampie |
Who knows if he did it but that is the point, did the jury get it wrong, did the jury get it right but in error due to 'beyond reasonable doubt', was what was presented fair and was it correct to reach a guilty verdict based on that evidence. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 07:38 - Oct 23 with 1783 views | trampie |
If it was in Scotland would the jury returned a 'not proven' verdict in this case I wonder.
Which is basically we don't think you are innocent but the trial has not proved you guilty beyond reasonable doubt/ we don't know if you are innocent or guilty. [Post edited 23 Oct 2020 9:38]
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| Clydach murders on 07:44 - Oct 23 with 1775 views | trampie |
I wonder who the expert at the end thinks who might have done it, the one they asked to profile the killer...hmm | |
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| Clydach murders on 07:47 - Oct 23 with 1770 views | trampie |
Was there more than one person involved in the killings I wonder, who knows hey or was it simply Morris all along. | |
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| Clydach murders on 08:01 - Oct 23 with 1760 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 00:04 - Oct 23 by Jack123 |
Interesting, I wasn't very impressed with the fella who come forward after all this time, I would guess that counts for nothing!
But I wasn't aware of the bloody handprint found, that made me think. Surely some top guy could make sense of the handprint and either rule out morris, or prove his guilt beyond doubt. |
He couldnt have had a more top guy. His barrister for the second trial was Michael Mansfield QC. Barrister for the rich and famous and is well known for turning over miscarriages of justice including IRA cases and the Cardiff case. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 08:04 - Oct 23 with 1751 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 08:01 - Oct 23 by exhmrc1 |
He couldnt have had a more top guy. His barrister for the second trial was Michael Mansfield QC. Barrister for the rich and famous and is well known for turning over miscarriages of justice including IRA cases and the Cardiff case. |
He failed him made lots of mistakes.
Didn't focus on the timeline which alone might have been good enough to have got his client off.. [Post edited 23 Oct 2020 8:27]
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| Clydach murders on 08:18 - Oct 23 with 1733 views | trefelinjack |
| Clydach murders on 23:21 - Oct 22 by exhmrc1 |
It isnt just that. Having local knowledge it just seems so far fetched that at the actual time 4am someone decides to walk over the mountain there is a car coming down. There is nothing up there except a few farms and an old chapel. It isnt even used as a short cut. You can get to Pontardawe that way but there isnt a pub or basically anything there just farms. |
Yes very secluded isn't it. The perfect place to go to maybe dump evidence, avoid people after a crime... | | | |
| Clydach murders on 08:59 - Oct 23 with 1695 views | 1983 |
| Clydach murders on 07:47 - Oct 23 by trampie |
Was there more than one person involved in the killings I wonder, who knows hey or was it simply Morris all along. |
I've always thought about something like this, Mandy led a very colourful life nothing wrong with that but after following the case and reading the books she knew a lot of people & had relationships with a lot of people. Maybe she knew something she wasn't supposed to know. Morris the local idiot could he have done all that pizzed as a fart off his nut on speed? maybe not The wishy washy Lewis family? maybe not
I always thought there was a 3rd party as this was no random of the cuff killing but a very calculated killing
As for fella in the car driving from the Chapel area that early in the morning anyone in that area of Swansea of a certain age would know that the white chapel was a place for youngsters to meet up drink and smoke weed so not so ridiculous to be driving around there Saturday night/ Sunday morning |  |
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| Clydach murders on 09:01 - Oct 23 with 1692 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 08:04 - Oct 23 by trampie |
He failed him made lots of mistakes.
Didn't focus on the timeline which alone might have been good enough to have got his client off.. [Post edited 23 Oct 2020 8:27]
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so 2 barristers failed him including the one who has overturned numerous cases. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 09:08 - Oct 23 with 1687 views | britferry |
| Clydach murders on 00:04 - Oct 23 by Jack123 |
Interesting, I wasn't very impressed with the fella who come forward after all this time, I would guess that counts for nothing!
But I wasn't aware of the bloody handprint found, that made me think. Surely some top guy could make sense of the handprint and either rule out morris, or prove his guilt beyond doubt. |
the defence expert, for the hand-print, was used in the first trial but not the 2nd, so obviously this piece of evidence wasn't suppressed by the Cops | |
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| Clydach murders on 09:24 - Oct 23 with 1677 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Clydach murders on 09:08 - Oct 23 by britferry |
the defence expert, for the hand-print, was used in the first trial but not the 2nd, so obviously this piece of evidence wasn't suppressed by the Cops |
Mansfield’s mistake maybe? Or one of them? | |
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| Clydach murders on 09:30 - Oct 23 with 1668 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 09:01 - Oct 23 by exhmrc1 |
so 2 barristers failed him including the one who has overturned numerous cases. |
Yes indeed, timeline may have well have got him off, they should have majored on the Grandmother been killed first and subsequent timeline as a result of that. [Post edited 23 Oct 2020 9:49]
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| Clydach murders on 09:46 - Oct 23 with 1652 views | ItchySphincter |
| Clydach murders on 22:39 - Oct 22 by Highjack |
You misunderstand. The fact that so many people seem to be sticking by him and think he’s innocent despite knowing he’s a right horrible bastard suggests that there’s more to this than meets the eye. The normal reaction would be let him rot. |
I did ,fair point, but I would expect families or loved ones to give the benefit of the doubt if there is one, regardless of personality or previous behaviour. I can’t see him being exonerated TBH as there is undoubtedly conflict of interest so they’ll be working like mad to avoid that can of worms. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 09:50 - Oct 23 with 1644 views | pikeypaul |
Strange how the police were determined to ignore Mike the taxi drivers(barman in Mumbles the last few years,never talked to him about the case or knew he was involved) sighting of the two brothers walking towards the house at 2am .
Not followed up when he first reported it and also ignored when he reported it again a week later.
They are now saying they MAY ask him again about it 20 years later.You could not make it up. [Post edited 23 Oct 2020 9:56]
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| Clydach murders on 09:57 - Oct 23 with 1628 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 09:50 - Oct 23 by pikeypaul |
Strange how the police were determined to ignore Mike the taxi drivers(barman in Mumbles the last few years,never talked to him about the case or knew he was involved) sighting of the two brothers walking towards the house at 2am .
Not followed up when he first reported it and also ignored when he reported it again a week later.
They are now saying they MAY ask him again about it 20 years later.You could not make it up. [Post edited 23 Oct 2020 9:56]
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Yes indeed and without wishing to get too controversial the case stinkings of framing the debate at trial against Morris, of allowing evidence against him and not evidence for him, I wonder why ?.....hmm | |
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