| Swansea financial sweepstake 09:57 - Jun 5 with 19154 views | Shaky |
for fun and education!
So I posted a chart in the long Potter thread that summarised the club's financial position, highlighting the relationship between the purchase of players and how they have been financed; overwhelmingly through the use of various forms of debt.
(Note: There's a typo on the 2017 total: should be £91.7m Not £97.1m)
What is interesting is to try to analyse where we stand today after the changes that have happened since the end of the last financial year 31 July 2017.
The asset side of that equation is relatively straight forward to forecast based on player ins and outs, and probably looks roughly as follows as of right now:
However, the player registrations component will obviously change before the end of the financial year due to transfers both in and out.
With that the financing needs also change. We are fairly certain that no new share capital will be provided by Kaplan & Co, but one way that the financing side will look better is by making profits such as on player sales that will boost shareholders' funds on the balance sheet. (the formula for that is last year's plus this year's profit after tax less any dividends paid).
As such the good news is that I estimate that as of right now profit on player sales is around £52 million for the current 2018 financial year to date.
The bad news is that despite this I still reckon the club will make a loss for the year:
However, the transfer season remains young, and estimates of the final 2018 tally for profit on player sales and any other metrics you want to take a stab at is now open until the close of business on 31st July.
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 10:08 - Jun 5 with 5959 views | jackjackjackjack |
Can you give a breakdown on how you've managed to come up with your "profit on player sales" figures? |  |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 10:20 - Jun 5 with 5924 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 10:08 - Jun 5 by jackjackjackjack |
Can you give a breakdown on how you've managed to come up with your "profit on player sales" figures? |
Profit on player sales is what they have been sold for less their value in the books contributing to total player registrations on the balance sheet.
Value on the books is basically the signing cost multiplied by the percentage of the players' contract remaining.
So for example let's assume Mawson is sold for £25 million. He was signed in August 2016 on a 4 year contract which means he has 2 years left, for a reported £5.3 million to which I have added 10% for agents fees making his total cost £5.8m
Therefore the profit would be £25m received less book value of £5.8m x 50% = £22.4m.
Players sold/let go this financial year:
- Gylfi Siggurdsen
- Fernando Llorente
- Modou Barrow
- Franck Tabanou
- Marvin Emnes | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 14:32 - Jun 5 with 5815 views | AlfieMooresSon |
Haven't got time to study it are we screwed or not? | | | |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 14:40 - Jun 5 with 5800 views | omarjack |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 10:20 - Jun 5 by Shaky |
Profit on player sales is what they have been sold for less their value in the books contributing to total player registrations on the balance sheet.
Value on the books is basically the signing cost multiplied by the percentage of the players' contract remaining.
So for example let's assume Mawson is sold for £25 million. He was signed in August 2016 on a 4 year contract which means he has 2 years left, for a reported £5.3 million to which I have added 10% for agents fees making his total cost £5.8m
Therefore the profit would be £25m received less book value of £5.8m x 50% = £22.4m.
Players sold/let go this financial year:
- Gylfi Siggurdsen
- Fernando Llorente
- Modou Barrow
- Franck Tabanou
- Marvin Emnes |
Wait so..if we sold Siggy for 40 m and we bought him for 10 m..
he had 2 years left on his 5 years contract..which means his book value is around 4 m when we sold him..
Therefore..the profit we made of selling him is 36 m.
True?
But how does it get recorded in the books exactly?
Can you show me a breakdown of your est sale figure (52 m) and estimated buy (34 m)?
thanks. [Post edited 5 Jun 2018 14:41]
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 15:39 - Jun 5 with 5721 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 14:32 - Jun 5 by AlfieMooresSon |
Haven't got time to study it are we screwed or not? |
Not necessarily.
Sell players soon and sell them well, and the parachute payment will give significant financial spending power relative to Championship peers in 19/21.
On the other hand hang on to deadwood failures from he last campaign, and you are pissing the parachute payments down the drain on excessive wage packets. | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 15:51 - Jun 5 with 5699 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 14:40 - Jun 5 by omarjack |
Wait so..if we sold Siggy for 40 m and we bought him for 10 m..
he had 2 years left on his 5 years contract..which means his book value is around 4 m when we sold him..
Therefore..the profit we made of selling him is 36 m.
True?
But how does it get recorded in the books exactly?
Can you show me a breakdown of your est sale figure (52 m) and estimated buy (34 m)?
thanks. [Post edited 5 Jun 2018 14:41]
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I'm using slightly different numbers for Siggy, with all my sales prices basically coming from transfermarket.com. They have him down as fetching £44.65 million.
His book value is a bit of a guess, in so far as he came in via that fishy deal with Ben Davis and Vorm. I am guessing it was £2m at the time of the sale.
On that basis the book keeping is as follows
Profit and loss account (player sales): + 44.64m-2m=£42.64m
Balance sheet (eventually when everything is settled):
Assets:
Player registration: -2m
Cash: +44.64m
Debt/Equity:
Equity reserves (retained profit): +£42.64m (less any tax)
Short term debt: (any tax payable) | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:02 - Jun 5 with 5675 views | TheResurrection |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 15:51 - Jun 5 by Shaky |
I'm using slightly different numbers for Siggy, with all my sales prices basically coming from transfermarket.com. They have him down as fetching £44.65 million.
His book value is a bit of a guess, in so far as he came in via that fishy deal with Ben Davis and Vorm. I am guessing it was £2m at the time of the sale.
On that basis the book keeping is as follows
Profit and loss account (player sales): + 44.64m-2m=£42.64m
Balance sheet (eventually when everything is settled):
Assets:
Player registration: -2m
Cash: +44.64m
Debt/Equity:
Equity reserves (retained profit): +£42.64m (less any tax)
Short term debt: (any tax payable) |
What a pile of pile of shit.
Take up watching trains FFS. |  |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:06 - Jun 5 with 5670 views | Shaky |
My estimates of 2018 YTD player sales:
The 2017 number is an actual taken from the accounts, but it matches my ex ante forecast using the same sources and approach very closely:
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:07 - Jun 5 with 5666 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:02 - Jun 5 by TheResurrection |
What a pile of pile of shit.
Take up watching trains FFS. |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:08 - Jun 5 with 5664 views | Darran |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:02 - Jun 5 by TheResurrection |
What a pile of pile of shit.
Take up watching trains FFS. |
I agree with you. WTF is the point of Shaky? What a twát. |  |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:19 - Jun 5 with 5650 views | AngelRangelQS |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 15:39 - Jun 5 by Shaky |
Not necessarily.
Sell players soon and sell them well, and the parachute payment will give significant financial spending power relative to Championship peers in 19/21.
On the other hand hang on to deadwood failures from he last campaign, and you are pissing the parachute payments down the drain on excessive wage packets. |
"Sell players soon and sell them well, and the parachute payment will give significant financial spending power relative to Championship peers in 19/21.
On the other hand hang on to deadwood failures from he last campaign, and you are pissing the parachute payments down the drain on excessive wage packets."
I could have told everyone that without making a load of graphs. [Post edited 5 Jun 2018 16:19]
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:26 - Jun 5 with 5632 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:19 - Jun 5 by AngelRangelQS |
"Sell players soon and sell them well, and the parachute payment will give significant financial spending power relative to Championship peers in 19/21.
On the other hand hang on to deadwood failures from he last campaign, and you are pissing the parachute payments down the drain on excessive wage packets."
I could have told everyone that without making a load of graphs. [Post edited 5 Jun 2018 16:19]
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Anyone can spout banalities.
What separates that which is useful from the dross is the ability to actually quantify these things meaningfully.
Hence the need for analysis. | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:29 - Jun 5 with 5614 views | E20Jack |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:02 - Jun 5 by TheResurrection |
What a pile of pile of shit.
Take up watching trains FFS. |
He has essentially put what myself, you and Lisa have been teaching him and put it in a graph and presented it as his own.
Still can’t spell our players correctly though. |  |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:31 - Jun 5 with 5611 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:29 - Jun 5 by E20Jack |
He has essentially put what myself, you and Lisa have been teaching him and put it in a graph and presented it as his own.
Still can’t spell our players correctly though. |
Well if it is your work and the Saviour's i am ripping off, you can of course point me to your original comments, can't you Dim? | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:34 - Jun 5 with 5597 views | Shaky |
As for Lisa -- any questions? | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:36 - Jun 5 with 5590 views | TheResurrection |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:26 - Jun 5 by Shaky |
Anyone can spout banalities.
What separates that which is useful from the dross is the ability to actually quantify these things meaningfully.
Hence the need for analysis. |
No, it really isn't.
We're on a pretty sound financial footing, especially with recent sales of players and the ones forecast to still be sold.
We're adjusting to life in the lower league so we'll now cut our cloth to suit our purse and that will mean boxing clever in the transfer market and new wages relative to our new surroundings.
We'll also attempt to sell our major assets, Mawson, Fab, Mesa and probably the Ayew's and Bony. This will give us further wiggle room. Throw in the parachute payments and for the first season in our history, we'll be starting life in our new division with one of, if not THE, biggest budgets in our league.
When have we ever been able to say that before.
You don't need complicated graphs and Anal terminology to tell us this.
Come on FFS.... | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:41 - Jun 5 with 5578 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:36 - Jun 5 by TheResurrection |
No, it really isn't.
We're on a pretty sound financial footing, especially with recent sales of players and the ones forecast to still be sold.
We're adjusting to life in the lower league so we'll now cut our cloth to suit our purse and that will mean boxing clever in the transfer market and new wages relative to our new surroundings.
We'll also attempt to sell our major assets, Mawson, Fab, Mesa and probably the Ayew's and Bony. This will give us further wiggle room. Throw in the parachute payments and for the first season in our history, we'll be starting life in our new division with one of, if not THE, biggest budgets in our league.
When have we ever been able to say that before.
You don't need complicated graphs and Anal terminology to tell us this.
Come on FFS.... |
i wasn't actually going to respond to that, because you proved my point offering up a prime example of a bunch of banalities without any kind of substance.
But it jogged my memory. You have plagerised much of that from some dross Lisa wrote a while back, haven't you? Why? [Post edited 5 Jun 2018 16:43]
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 17:19 - Jun 5 with 5508 views | E20Jack |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:31 - Jun 5 by Shaky |
Well if it is your work and the Saviour's i am ripping off, you can of course point me to your original comments, can't you Dim? |
Can you point me to where I valued Mawson at £60m and Jordan Ayew at £35m?
That’s all you do it regurgitate views you have previously disagreed with. We are financially fine, you were carrying round a sandwich board a few weeks back sayin we are doomed and the end is nigh before Lisa correctly told you that our position takes into consideration player values, something you are now happy to do. This was after you realising there was no excess money as I told you, even though stating we would have £20m+ excess.
The Trust state they are looking into UP so you jump in the bandwagon and try and pass it off as your own idea, even though it was blindingly obvious don’t you think?
Fraud. [Post edited 5 Jun 2018 17:24]
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 17:22 - Jun 5 with 5505 views | E20Jack |
Can we do a sweepstake how many times Shaky says the word banal or banalities this coming season? I think he saw it on countdown once and now tries to use it whenever he can. He reminds me of my cousin who learned the word “salvage” at school and then used it at every opportunity.
I am going with 83. [Post edited 5 Jun 2018 17:25]
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 18:00 - Jun 5 with 5470 views | Shaky |
Well Dim, the club is currently £80-90 million in debt.
If you think that's fine, you're an idiot.
However, that really isn't news to many people on this site.
What concerns me significantly more is that the Trust - in the form of their financial affiliate - didn't understand that when I went through the last financials.
Does she now? I certainly hope so, because that is rather important in the context of arguing for supporters' best interests. | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 18:14 - Jun 5 with 5440 views | jackjackjackjack |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 18:00 - Jun 5 by Shaky |
Well Dim, the club is currently £80-90 million in debt.
If you think that's fine, you're an idiot.
However, that really isn't news to many people on this site.
What concerns me significantly more is that the Trust - in the form of their financial affiliate - didn't understand that when I went through the last financials.
Does she now? I certainly hope so, because that is rather important in the context of arguing for supporters' best interests. |
Who do we owe the debt to? | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 18:18 - Jun 5 with 5434 views | Shaky |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 18:14 - Jun 5 by jackjackjackjack |
Who do we owe the debt to? |
Why do you ask, Dim? | |
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 19:10 - Jun 5 with 5395 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 16:34 - Jun 5 by Shaky |
As for Lisa -- any questions? |
Well I would ask why you’re taking a bunch of made up figures, analysing them and then talking about them for ages as though they’re correct when they’re not as it seems a bit of a waste of time, but I didn’t bother as I guess it’s up to you. | | | |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 19:19 - Jun 5 with 5381 views | Oldjack |
The 27 owners ,what cut will they be taking ? |  |
| Prosser the Tosser dwells on Phil's bum hole like a rusty old hemorrhoid ,fact
You Greedy Bastards Get Out Of OUR Club!
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| Swansea financial sweepstake on 19:31 - Jun 5 with 5358 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Swansea financial sweepstake on 18:00 - Jun 5 by Shaky |
Well Dim, the club is currently £80-90 million in debt.
If you think that's fine, you're an idiot.
However, that really isn't news to many people on this site.
What concerns me significantly more is that the Trust - in the form of their financial affiliate - didn't understand that when I went through the last financials.
Does she now? I certainly hope so, because that is rather important in the context of arguing for supporters' best interests. |
I understood it fine Shaky.
I attempted to point out that ignoring player trading was missing quite an important part of the way our financials work but you wouldn’t accept what I was saying.
What you are doing now is attempting to include player trading in your numbers which is what I said at the time was needed.
And your first statement is incorrect. | | | |
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