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Having read the biography of robert enke, the German keeper who killed himself, I feel really sorry for karius. To come back from this will be really hard, and they level of regret/shame he is feeling must be awful.
Does that mean I don't blame him? No, they were two awful and unforgivable mistakes...but I can still have some sympathy too, he's a human being.
I’m not going to include them on here, but there were tweets to Karius last night calling for his son to get cancer.
The way the Liverpool players and manager left the keeper on his own at the end and the way the fans have abused him on twitter today makes a mockery of all this you'll never walk alone nonsense
It was too quick for him to have meant it, even Ramos couldn't have done that, looked like a freak accident, If Salah bends his arm rather than falls on it straight he'd have been fine
I think you have underestimated quite how calculated Ramos is. He is the master of the dark arts and gets away with it the vast majority of the time. Later in the game he was caught blatantly looking over his shoulder for Mane to then leap up in the air as if he had been seriously caught. I put nothing past him and unfortunately for some reason, no one takes any action against him.
Ramos is a low life shitbag. All that is wrong with present day footballer. The referee might have missed it but his teammates know what’s going on. Anyone like to speak up.?
I’m not going to include them on here, but there were tweets to Karius last night calling for his son to get cancer.
What is wrong with these people.
That is sick
But every opposition fan is going to rip him in every game next season, it would happen at LR if we were to play them but I would be amazed if he plays for them again a keeper will be high on their buy list.
I think you have underestimated quite how calculated Ramos is. He is the master of the dark arts and gets away with it the vast majority of the time. Later in the game he was caught blatantly looking over his shoulder for Mane to then leap up in the air as if he had been seriously caught. I put nothing past him and unfortunately for some reason, no one takes any action against him.
[Post edited 27 May 2018 19:48]
An interesting innovation to work out how to avoid tackles that bring irritating red or yellow cards and instead focus on inflicting upper body injuries. In years to come I believe the Ramos dislocator will be seen on a par with the Cruyff turn.
I think you have underestimated quite how calculated Ramos is. He is the master of the dark arts and gets away with it the vast majority of the time. Later in the game he was caught blatantly looking over his shoulder for Mane to then leap up in the air as if he had been seriously caught. I put nothing past him and unfortunately for some reason, no one takes any action against him.
[Post edited 27 May 2018 19:48]
I know Ramos is a cheat but no way could he have planned to do that, was a freak accident. Salah didn't help himself by hooking his arm around Ramos to start with putting him in a position where he was likely to hit the deck.
It was too quick for him to have meant it, even Ramos couldn't have done that, looked like a freak accident, If Salah bends his arm rather than falls on it straight he'd have been fine
The act itself looked intentional but he couldn't have known the outcome, although he must have known there was a reasonable chance of inflicting some type of injury.
I know Ramos is a cheat but no way could he have planned to do that, was a freak accident. Salah didn't help himself by hooking his arm around Ramos to start with putting him in a position where he was likely to hit the deck.
I dislike Ramos, so I may be clouded in my opinion, but he clamps Salah’s arm against his body and then brings them both down. I think he knew he had a pretty good chance of causing an injury of some sort. As has been seen on many occasions, Ramos doesn’t care about any fellow player, he will leave the boot in or follow through with an elbow with no regard for any injury he might cause.
Liverpool FC and their fans are hypocrites. Heysel seems to have been conveniently airbrushed from their history.
[Post edited 28 May 2018 8:30]
We all know that that was down to uefa,the Italians and the Belgians.It was nothing to do with their fans wanting to fight anyone. The Man City coachs happened to get in the way of them passing a few bottles bricks and flares to each other too. I see one idiot has started an online campaign asking uefa to ban Ramos for injuring their star player.When will these people realise that they lost the game because their keeper fecked up twice and the chimp scored a wonder goal?
Ramos also floored Karius with a sly elbow. He does this sort of thing all the time but always gets away with it.
I wonder if the sly elbow had anything to do with Karius' performance. Maybe maybe not but an elbow to the head is not going to improve your concentration.
I dislike Ramos, so I may be clouded in my opinion, but he clamps Salah’s arm against his body and then brings them both down. I think he knew he had a pretty good chance of causing an injury of some sort. As has been seen on many occasions, Ramos doesn’t care about any fellow player, he will leave the boot in or follow through with an elbow with no regard for any injury he might cause.
I know Ramos is a cheat and that but to plan to cause that injury is evil genius, so much could go wrong with it, Salah could have landed on his back if he hadn't left his arm out, was a bit of a freak. the Elbow on Karius was far worse.
i just see this stuff like Liverpool fans writing petitions to get him banned and it all seems pathetic as if they have never had a player who kicked and hurt people before cough Steve mcmahon, Graham Souness cough
if Ramos and co are using the dark arts then fight fire with fire don't stand there looking all wounded, give it to him back , plenty of the teams in the Premier league are so flakey that they lack any killer instinct , its all right looking all tippy tappy but tackling and roughing people up are part of the game if I were Henderson I would have raked my studs down the back of his leg as a payback then he wouldn't do it again
And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
I don't particularly like Liverpool and I get annoyed with the media's constant fawning over them but I did feel for Salah and Karius, the Real player who went off injured too. Salah and the Real player could miss the World Cup.
It looked to me as if there was a lot of evil intent in Ramos' challenge. He clung onto Salah's arm as long as possible, even when they were falling.
Who'd be a 'keeper? The first real goal was a bizarre fluke which had me asking myself if Benzema was allowed to get that close to the 'keeper. I'm not sure, my command of the rules of the game is not great!
The second Real goal was a piece of brilliance that you just can't do anything about. Bale has his back to goal and if you get too close to him, you risk him getting goalside.
As for the third, every 'keeper has made a howler like that, it's just that very few are unlucky enough to experience it at a crucial moment on the biggest stage. Karius has been OK this season and is clearly devastated by what happened. I hope he gets over it and that people treat him reasonably rather than slaughtering him. Some hope! His superb point blank save from Ronaldo's header was very soon forgotten.
Amazing that Real won that really. They were quite sloppy at the back and often seemed to have just the two CBs defending. Marcelo was further advanced than Ronaldo at times.
By the way, I am just back from holiday and watched the game in a bar in Crete. The bar was not that busy but there were at least three Greeks in Liverpool tops and they were clearly serious fans, not Johnny come lately glory hunters...
RFA
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
I don't particularly like Liverpool and I get annoyed with the media's constant fawning over them but I did feel for Salah and Karius, the Real player who went off injured too. Salah and the Real player could miss the World Cup.
It looked to me as if there was a lot of evil intent in Ramos' challenge. He clung onto Salah's arm as long as possible, even when they were falling.
Who'd be a 'keeper? The first real goal was a bizarre fluke which had me asking myself if Benzema was allowed to get that close to the 'keeper. I'm not sure, my command of the rules of the game is not great!
The second Real goal was a piece of brilliance that you just can't do anything about. Bale has his back to goal and if you get too close to him, you risk him getting goalside.
As for the third, every 'keeper has made a howler like that, it's just that very few are unlucky enough to experience it at a crucial moment on the biggest stage. Karius has been OK this season and is clearly devastated by what happened. I hope he gets over it and that people treat him reasonably rather than slaughtering him. Some hope! His superb point blank save from Ronaldo's header was very soon forgotten.
Amazing that Real won that really. They were quite sloppy at the back and often seemed to have just the two CBs defending. Marcelo was further advanced than Ronaldo at times.
By the way, I am just back from holiday and watched the game in a bar in Crete. The bar was not that busy but there were at least three Greeks in Liverpool tops and they were clearly serious fans, not Johnny come lately glory hunters...
RFA
"Who'd be a 'keeper? The first real goal was a bizarre fluke which had me asking myself if Benzema was allowed to get that close to the 'keeper. I'm not sure, my command of the rules of the game is not great!"
The ball was in open play so I'm pretty sure there's no pre-set distance one player has to be from another, as you would in a dead ball situation.
Just in the same way this happened.... open play and only one hand on the ball = goal.
There ARE definitions of when a gk has 'control' of the ball and when he can/cannot be challenged (See below)
8/10 refs on RefChat agree this was a goal - Karius has released the ball before he was 'challenged'.
In reality Karius threw the ball and it hit his opponent - I'm in the 'goal' camp.
law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct
2. Indirect free kick An indirect free kick is awarded if a player: prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from the hands or kicks or attempts to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it
A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball when: the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds accidentally from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save holding the ball in the outstretched open hand bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hands.
There ARE definitions of when a gk has 'control' of the ball and when he can/cannot be challenged (See below)
8/10 refs on RefChat agree this was a goal - Karius has released the ball before he was 'challenged'.
In reality Karius threw the ball and it hit his opponent - I'm in the 'goal' camp.
law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct
2. Indirect free kick An indirect free kick is awarded if a player: prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from the hands or kicks or attempts to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it
A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball when: the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds accidentally from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save holding the ball in the outstretched open hand bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hands.
The thing I was pondering was is Benzema so close that Karius can't actually throw it. To be honest, I doubt he was. Such a fluke but one of the risks 'keepers run if they try to get the ball out quickly, per the modern style. In the old days, when expectations of 'keepers' distribution and contribution to attacks were lower, Karius would've danced around the striker for a while until he had made space for an almighty, largely aimless hoof up the park.
RFA
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
There ARE definitions of when a gk has 'control' of the ball and when he can/cannot be challenged (See below)
8/10 refs on RefChat agree this was a goal - Karius has released the ball before he was 'challenged'.
In reality Karius threw the ball and it hit his opponent - I'm in the 'goal' camp.
law 12 - Fouls and Misconduct
2. Indirect free kick An indirect free kick is awarded if a player: prevents the goalkeeper from releasing the ball from the hands or kicks or attempts to kick the ball when the goalkeeper is in the process of releasing it
A goalkeeper is considered to be in control of the ball when: the ball is between the hands or between the hand and any surface (e.g. ground, own body) or by touching it with any part of the hands or arms except if the ball rebounds accidentally from the goalkeeper or the goalkeeper has made a save holding the ball in the outstretched open hand bouncing it on the ground or throwing it in the air A goalkeeper cannot be challenged by an opponent when in control of the ball with the hands.
I know it is a bit strange, but could the rules committee consider an extension to this rule? You might want to say: that a player on the opposing side of a goal keeper's team cannot interfere with the distribution of the ball, whether by hand or by foot, to any player located beyond the offending player, if that offending player is currently in the area bounded by the 18-yard box (i.e., penalty area and not including the semi-circle at the top). That is, inside the penalty box the goal keeper has a free chance to distribute the ball out of the box and it can be intercepted if the opponent is located outside of the box, but not inside. Thus also, if a goal keeper goes to the edge of the penalty area an opponent may, only from outside the box, challenge the attempted clearance, that being different to the current rules. Of course, a goal keeper just needs to step a few steps back before distributing the ball. A header by the goal keeper is not an attempt to distribute. If the goal keeper tries to distribute the ball to a teammate nearby then this extension does not apply if that player is nearer the goalkeeper than the opponent. Of course, this could just be opening a further can of worms in the interpretation stakes. However, I think this should make it all so much simpler for the officials to make a decision. Love to hear your thoughts on this, Pinner.
I know it is a bit strange, but could the rules committee consider an extension to this rule? You might want to say: that a player on the opposing side of a goal keeper's team cannot interfere with the distribution of the ball, whether by hand or by foot, to any player located beyond the offending player, if that offending player is currently in the area bounded by the 18-yard box (i.e., penalty area and not including the semi-circle at the top). That is, inside the penalty box the goal keeper has a free chance to distribute the ball out of the box and it can be intercepted if the opponent is located outside of the box, but not inside. Thus also, if a goal keeper goes to the edge of the penalty area an opponent may, only from outside the box, challenge the attempted clearance, that being different to the current rules. Of course, a goal keeper just needs to step a few steps back before distributing the ball. A header by the goal keeper is not an attempt to distribute. If the goal keeper tries to distribute the ball to a teammate nearby then this extension does not apply if that player is nearer the goalkeeper than the opponent. Of course, this could just be opening a further can of worms in the interpretation stakes. However, I think this should make it all so much simpler for the officials to make a decision. Love to hear your thoughts on this, Pinner.
Yes that's a fair point, but wonder if it could be made simpler by stating exact distance, attackers must retreat when GK has the ball in his hands - its 2 metres now for a throw in, so maybe 3 or 4 for GKs.
This example would still be a goal for me though - the attacker slightly raises his foot a millisecond before Karius releases the ball, but its marginal at best - that's why 8/10 refs said it was a goal!
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