| Expectations 21:39 - Oct 8 with 6510 views | meeee |
Whenever one of my friends asks, "what would be a good season for Rochdale." I always say 20th or above would be a good season for us with our budget and I know a lot of other Rochdale fans think the same way. I've even seen numerous posts on this forum saying exactly that. I know there is still a long way to go this season but assuming we carry on as we are and maintain our position of 18th would you feel disappointed? Would you class it as a successful season? We all say that survival in this league would be a success for a club like us but I'd be really disappointed with a bottom half finish this season. I think it shows how far we've come as a club that i'd be disappointed with a bottom half finish as during the days of League two football i'd have no doubt taken an 18th position season in league one. Hopefully Keith and the boys can start to kick on this season anyway |  | | |  |
| Expectations on 22:02 - Oct 8 with 6476 views | 442Dale |
18th would be fine if the side are playing some decent football and just coming out on the wrong side of results. We're 18th now because we're playing like that's our aim, when we know it isn't |  |
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| Expectations on 23:17 - Oct 8 with 6396 views | D_Alien |
The thing is, since we've no right to a top-half finish, and many teams in any league are going to lose plenty of matches, there are reasons why they do so
When Dale were dominant in L2 and more recently going on long successful runs in L1, I expect the fans of those teams we were beating were able to spot the deficiencies in their own personnel and tactics - and it's not difficult to do the same now Dale are finding themselves playing below the level we've become accustomed to, which is just fine - but how about we have a little patience?
How about we accept the great times we've had, and look forward to more of them when the manager is able to find the right combinations again? That might take some time, perhaps a full season
It's one thing to debate what the right personnel and system might be, it's another to whinge about 'playing for draws' as if the opposition are expected to just roll over and have their bollocks tickled. It's a bloody tough league, and teams are coming at us with championship-seasoned players as often as not
The question i'll pose right here is this - there's plenty who are happy to bask in the glory when we've been doing well; how many of you have got the balls to take some of the defeats and stick with it?
[Post edited 8 Oct 2017 23:24]
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| Expectations on 23:58 - Oct 8 with 6350 views | Hopwoodblue |
| Expectations on 23:17 - Oct 8 by D_Alien |
The thing is, since we've no right to a top-half finish, and many teams in any league are going to lose plenty of matches, there are reasons why they do so
When Dale were dominant in L2 and more recently going on long successful runs in L1, I expect the fans of those teams we were beating were able to spot the deficiencies in their own personnel and tactics - and it's not difficult to do the same now Dale are finding themselves playing below the level we've become accustomed to, which is just fine - but how about we have a little patience?
How about we accept the great times we've had, and look forward to more of them when the manager is able to find the right combinations again? That might take some time, perhaps a full season
It's one thing to debate what the right personnel and system might be, it's another to whinge about 'playing for draws' as if the opposition are expected to just roll over and have their bollocks tickled. It's a bloody tough league, and teams are coming at us with championship-seasoned players as often as not
The question i'll pose right here is this - there's plenty who are happy to bask in the glory when we've been doing well; how many of you have got the balls to take some of the defeats and stick with it?
[Post edited 8 Oct 2017 23:24]
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The only reason it's bad at the moment is because we have enjoyed good times in recent years. Anything but relegation is good enough for me. We have no right to expect a top ten finish every season. Ok it was bad on Saturday but not anywhere near as bad as it was back in the seventies. We've come along way and are going to experience dips in form and maybe have a poor season. We know the players we have are capable of better and I'm sure they know to. Let's just hope we turn it round and manage to finish outside the bottom four. |  |
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| Expectations on 07:44 - Oct 9 with 6208 views | DaleFan7 |
| Expectations on 23:58 - Oct 8 by Hopwoodblue |
The only reason it's bad at the moment is because we have enjoyed good times in recent years. Anything but relegation is good enough for me. We have no right to expect a top ten finish every season. Ok it was bad on Saturday but not anywhere near as bad as it was back in the seventies. We've come along way and are going to experience dips in form and maybe have a poor season. We know the players we have are capable of better and I'm sure they know to. Let's just hope we turn it round and manage to finish outside the bottom four. |
I agree that we're going to have poor games and seasons and we need to be realistic that we can't play Brazilian football every week but I also don't agree we should still be looking back to times 40-50 years ago and be saying 'well, remember how bad it was then, so if we're playing bad, it doesn't matter because it's still better than then.' |  | | |
| Expectations on 09:23 - Oct 9 with 6133 views | DaleiLama |
If you answer the question generically, for a club of our size and budget, the answer is probably not in this league.
Having said that, the manager and the squad decide how well we perform, not the budget and history.
From my perspective, I have been bullish the past few seasons in predicting our final league place. I tried to search for it out of curiosity, but search doesn't seem to work (for me) at the mo. It matters not.
This season, I didn't make a prediction. Not out of superstition, but more a result of a gut feeling (not claiming to be Nostradamus with the benefit of hindsight either, in case anyone is tempted to think along those lines). I can't explain it and have pondered it often. Losing NML, Lund and Allen is not just subtracting quality players and proven contributors to previous successes from the squad, it is also creating vacuums which need filling. I am also not saying the players KH has brought in are not up to scratch, nor am I leaping to judgement at this early stage of the season, but the feeling I had was that the new squad would take time to mesh and find its feet. I also know that this isn't the first season this has happened, but somehow, even though we clearly have talent in the squad, I wasn't expecting Dale to tear it up this season.
Is this KH "managing my expectations?" I don't think so. I agree with DA's comment elsewhere that we are short of confidence. Teams are also catching on to how to play us (or stop us playing) if they are fit enough/physical enough to do it and we seem to have lost a yard sometimes, somewhere, somehow.
Talent-wise, this squad should be in the top half of L1 with this manager. We aren't yet. I have by no means given up hope of us still getting there this year, but we need to start playing more "like a KH team", as I alluded to in the matchday thread.
Callum is going to play a big part in any resurgence, as is Ollie. Neither are firing on all cylinders at the moment, but the midfield needs to get back to its best for us to climb back into the top half. Without it, we are going to continue to struggle. |  |
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| Expectations on 10:16 - Oct 9 with 6051 views | D_Alien |
| Expectations on 09:23 - Oct 9 by DaleiLama |
If you answer the question generically, for a club of our size and budget, the answer is probably not in this league.
Having said that, the manager and the squad decide how well we perform, not the budget and history.
From my perspective, I have been bullish the past few seasons in predicting our final league place. I tried to search for it out of curiosity, but search doesn't seem to work (for me) at the mo. It matters not.
This season, I didn't make a prediction. Not out of superstition, but more a result of a gut feeling (not claiming to be Nostradamus with the benefit of hindsight either, in case anyone is tempted to think along those lines). I can't explain it and have pondered it often. Losing NML, Lund and Allen is not just subtracting quality players and proven contributors to previous successes from the squad, it is also creating vacuums which need filling. I am also not saying the players KH has brought in are not up to scratch, nor am I leaping to judgement at this early stage of the season, but the feeling I had was that the new squad would take time to mesh and find its feet. I also know that this isn't the first season this has happened, but somehow, even though we clearly have talent in the squad, I wasn't expecting Dale to tear it up this season.
Is this KH "managing my expectations?" I don't think so. I agree with DA's comment elsewhere that we are short of confidence. Teams are also catching on to how to play us (or stop us playing) if they are fit enough/physical enough to do it and we seem to have lost a yard sometimes, somewhere, somehow.
Talent-wise, this squad should be in the top half of L1 with this manager. We aren't yet. I have by no means given up hope of us still getting there this year, but we need to start playing more "like a KH team", as I alluded to in the matchday thread.
Callum is going to play a big part in any resurgence, as is Ollie. Neither are firing on all cylinders at the moment, but the midfield needs to get back to its best for us to climb back into the top half. Without it, we are going to continue to struggle. |
I had that same gut feeling, which, when the injuries and illnesses struck, combined to put the kibosh on fitness and planning. We're still in recovery mode, and I'd ask again for patience
Hilly has expressed concerns over recent years that we've somehow been dismissive of - and now those concerns, that he might not have answers to all the footballing questions being posed this season, are coming home to roost. He needs our support more than ever, right now
I say, give him time, and a little more realism. I don't think we'll end up in a dogfight at the wrong end of the table, but if we do, you need a strong stomach to survive it
[Post edited 9 Oct 2017 10:25]
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| Expectations on 10:46 - Oct 9 with 5998 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Expectations on 23:58 - Oct 8 by Hopwoodblue |
The only reason it's bad at the moment is because we have enjoyed good times in recent years. Anything but relegation is good enough for me. We have no right to expect a top ten finish every season. Ok it was bad on Saturday but not anywhere near as bad as it was back in the seventies. We've come along way and are going to experience dips in form and maybe have a poor season. We know the players we have are capable of better and I'm sure they know to. Let's just hope we turn it round and manage to finish outside the bottom four. |
I think the "not as bad as the seventies" comment needs consigning to the same file at the bury fc FA Cup wins. Too long ago to be relevant and the past is the past. However it happened, we survived and are thankful for doing so but that does or should not make us any less worthy or less expectant.
If you look at the last 20 years of this club, we have broadly been a League 2 (Division 4) club challenging for promotion and have achieved two promotions and the blot of a relegation over the space of the last eight years; mainly due to the influence of one man - Keith Hill - however he build on the work of Steve Parkin over two spells.
It would suit me to:
1) Live within our means; developing players and filling up the coffers so we are long term (>5 years) solvent
2) Entice people in the town to come and watch on a regular basis by making it as easy, fun and cost effective as possible to do so.
3) Play decent attacking football. The Rochdale Academy philosophy sets out that we will play "“Possession based, fast attacking football”
4) Avoid relegation from the league we are in (50 points)
5) Try to reach the third round of the FA Cup.
We are experts at 1), decent at 2) but still improving and 3) to 5) are wildly variable.
Where we have had the performances, we have not had the results and the principles of "fast" attacking football over 20 years depend on how you view Paul Tait vs George Donnelly vs Steven Davies.
I think you do have to reference the expectations set by Hill in the fans forum - 70 goals mentioned and that would put us in scoring terms where we were in the last two years. |  |
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| Expectations on 12:11 - Oct 9 with 5913 views | ParkinsGimp |
Doesnt help when you sign players that are not of League One standard. | | | |
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| Expectations on 13:42 - Oct 9 with 5779 views | dingdangblue |
| Expectations on 12:11 - Oct 9 by ParkinsGimp |
Doesnt help when you sign players that are not of League One standard. |
I remember when Joe Bunney was said to be only good enough for non league. |  |
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| Expectations on 16:31 - Oct 9 with 5630 views | scarrow |
| Expectations on 12:11 - Oct 9 by ParkinsGimp |
Doesnt help when you sign players that are not of League One standard. |
The only player signed recently who doesn't seem to be up to standard is Brown and that judgement is only on a handful of games. The likes of Done and Inman are proven but for whatever reason at the mo they aren't performing. |  |
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| Expectations on 17:27 - Oct 9 with 5574 views | ColDale |
| Expectations on 16:31 - Oct 9 by scarrow |
The only player signed recently who doesn't seem to be up to standard is Brown and that judgement is only on a handful of games. The likes of Done and Inman are proven but for whatever reason at the mo they aren't performing. |
Don't know whether its my mind distorting things, but Done's two previous spells were very much slow burners. I reckoned at the time that he was lucky to get a new contract after the first twelve months in his second spell. Couple that with his preseason was all up in the air as to which club he was going to be at, it'll take him a whole before we fully see the Done we all know and love. |  | | |
| Expectations on 17:39 - Oct 9 with 5551 views | D_Alien |
| Expectations on 17:27 - Oct 9 by ColDale |
Don't know whether its my mind distorting things, but Done's two previous spells were very much slow burners. I reckoned at the time that he was lucky to get a new contract after the first twelve months in his second spell. Couple that with his preseason was all up in the air as to which club he was going to be at, it'll take him a whole before we fully see the Done we all know and love. |
No, your mind isn't playing tricks, you're absolutely correct
It was only in the short timeframe from the Leeds FA Cup victory, when Done was converted to a wing-back role, then his subsequent renaissance as a forward, that he gained sufficient exposure to attract the bid from Sheff Utd. His time at Barnsley produced 4 goals in 44 appearances
For long periods of time previous to this, he was either on the bench or not in the matchday squad at all, much to the puzzlement of many of us. Whether that predicts his current trajectory is another matter. He's come back as a 'proven' player and whilst i disagree with those who're saying he's not performing (he's just not ripping up trees) i suspect it'll take a turnaround in the supply through midfield for him to achieve previous heights. I don't doubt his ability or his motivation for one minute
Having said that, the one brief spark we've seen from him was when the ball was punted long, Rathbone got a touch on and he was released to score at the end of the Gillingham victory. So, he's still got it, but when we're struggling he can come across as a bit of a luxury player - not through any fault of his own
[Post edited 9 Oct 2017 17:44]
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| Expectations on 18:48 - Oct 9 with 5423 views | Phil |
| Expectations on 17:39 - Oct 9 by D_Alien |
No, your mind isn't playing tricks, you're absolutely correct
It was only in the short timeframe from the Leeds FA Cup victory, when Done was converted to a wing-back role, then his subsequent renaissance as a forward, that he gained sufficient exposure to attract the bid from Sheff Utd. His time at Barnsley produced 4 goals in 44 appearances
For long periods of time previous to this, he was either on the bench or not in the matchday squad at all, much to the puzzlement of many of us. Whether that predicts his current trajectory is another matter. He's come back as a 'proven' player and whilst i disagree with those who're saying he's not performing (he's just not ripping up trees) i suspect it'll take a turnaround in the supply through midfield for him to achieve previous heights. I don't doubt his ability or his motivation for one minute
Having said that, the one brief spark we've seen from him was when the ball was punted long, Rathbone got a touch on and he was released to score at the end of the Gillingham victory. So, he's still got it, but when we're struggling he can come across as a bit of a luxury player - not through any fault of his own
[Post edited 9 Oct 2017 17:44]
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Pretty good going to score twice as many goals as he's had "brief sparks".
Done's first stint at Rochdale led to a Championship move. His second stint led to a League One move. This suggests his first spell could be considered more of a success than his second? | | | |
| Expectations on 18:53 - Oct 9 with 5401 views | nordenblue |
| Expectations on 18:48 - Oct 9 by Phil |
Pretty good going to score twice as many goals as he's had "brief sparks".
Done's first stint at Rochdale led to a Championship move. His second stint led to a League One move. This suggests his first spell could be considered more of a success than his second? |
Success could be measured purely how hes played just for us though not necessarily the move that followed...... | | | |
| Expectations on 18:57 - Oct 9 with 5388 views | rochdaleriddler |
| Expectations on 23:17 - Oct 8 by D_Alien |
The thing is, since we've no right to a top-half finish, and many teams in any league are going to lose plenty of matches, there are reasons why they do so
When Dale were dominant in L2 and more recently going on long successful runs in L1, I expect the fans of those teams we were beating were able to spot the deficiencies in their own personnel and tactics - and it's not difficult to do the same now Dale are finding themselves playing below the level we've become accustomed to, which is just fine - but how about we have a little patience?
How about we accept the great times we've had, and look forward to more of them when the manager is able to find the right combinations again? That might take some time, perhaps a full season
It's one thing to debate what the right personnel and system might be, it's another to whinge about 'playing for draws' as if the opposition are expected to just roll over and have their bollocks tickled. It's a bloody tough league, and teams are coming at us with championship-seasoned players as often as not
The question i'll pose right here is this - there's plenty who are happy to bask in the glory when we've been doing well; how many of you have got the balls to take some of the defeats and stick with it?
[Post edited 8 Oct 2017 23:24]
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Another dig at me, I'll explain if you set up not to lose, and are ultra cautious , it's not dishonest to say we have played for draws.why would fans need a stomach for the fight if it's a struggle for the season. I will go win lose or draw, and cheer the team on. I have decided not to go to Plymouth because I can't justify the expense of a trip that will make me miserable. I'm sure now we will win there, and I can get the railcard out once more. If I support my local team in person, never boo players or shout at the manager, I'm sure I'm allowed an opinion on here, you are not the forum police |  |
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| Expectations on 19:21 - Oct 9 with 5329 views | D_Alien |
| Expectations on 18:48 - Oct 9 by Phil |
Pretty good going to score twice as many goals as he's had "brief sparks".
Done's first stint at Rochdale led to a Championship move. His second stint led to a League One move. This suggests his first spell could be considered more of a success than his second? |
It's a fair point, but bearing in mind that it was Hilly who took him to Barnsley, he didn't attract bids from other clubs' managers - at least not publicly, that I can recall - during his first spell | |
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| Expectations on 19:21 - Oct 9 with 5327 views | TVOS1907 |
| Expectations on 18:48 - Oct 9 by Phil |
Pretty good going to score twice as many goals as he's had "brief sparks".
Done's first stint at Rochdale led to a Championship move. His second stint led to a League One move. This suggests his first spell could be considered more of a success than his second? |
Possibly, but his move to the Championship was undoubtedly influenced by the manager who signed him.
One could argue a move to Sheffield United was actually better, even though they were a division lower than Barnsley at the time.
One could also argue his move to Sheffield United was more successful. |  |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Expectations on 19:26 - Oct 9 with 5312 views | TVOS1907 |
| Expectations on 12:11 - Oct 9 by ParkinsGimp |
Doesnt help when you sign players that are not of League One standard. |
Have you got a suggestion as to how we can sign players of League One standard or better given our financial restrictions and the deals available to players elsewhere? | |
| When I was your age, I used to enjoy the odd game of tennis. Or was it golf? |
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| Expectations on 19:49 - Oct 9 with 5264 views | D_Alien |
| Expectations on 18:57 - Oct 9 by rochdaleriddler |
Another dig at me, I'll explain if you set up not to lose, and are ultra cautious , it's not dishonest to say we have played for draws.why would fans need a stomach for the fight if it's a struggle for the season. I will go win lose or draw, and cheer the team on. I have decided not to go to Plymouth because I can't justify the expense of a trip that will make me miserable. I'm sure now we will win there, and I can get the railcard out once more. If I support my local team in person, never boo players or shout at the manager, I'm sure I'm allowed an opinion on here, you are not the forum police |
It wasn't a dig at you rr, there are others who've posted about playing for draws, which i very much disagree with. One of Hilly's sayings is something along the lines of "having to earn the right to play" at the outset. Against Rovrum, for instance, we simply weren't able to do that because they were a better side than us on the day
In fact, it wasn't a dig at all, just a question, but thanks for your answer | |
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| Expectations on 21:56 - Oct 9 with 5129 views | Phil |
| Expectations on 19:21 - Oct 9 by D_Alien |
It's a fair point, but bearing in mind that it was Hilly who took him to Barnsley, he didn't attract bids from other clubs' managers - at least not publicly, that I can recall - during his first spell |
That's a laugh, using the fact that it was Hill who signed him as a caveat. After the abuse you give anyone who dares question Hill's judgement. | | | |
| Expectations on 22:06 - Oct 9 with 5104 views | D_Alien |
| Expectations on 21:56 - Oct 9 by Phil |
That's a laugh, using the fact that it was Hill who signed him as a caveat. After the abuse you give anyone who dares question Hill's judgement. |
You're seriously wound up and not thinking straight
That's the only explanation that'd explain your interpretation of my post as being in any way critical of Hill signing Done for Barnsley (even though it was a right kick in the bollocks for us all at the time - but that's for an entirely different reason)
Read what others have said about it, not just me
I did suggest you should 'leave it' earlier, it's not doing you any good, is it? | |
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| Expectations on 22:47 - Oct 9 with 5034 views | Phil |
| Expectations on 22:06 - Oct 9 by D_Alien |
You're seriously wound up and not thinking straight
That's the only explanation that'd explain your interpretation of my post as being in any way critical of Hill signing Done for Barnsley (even though it was a right kick in the bollocks for us all at the time - but that's for an entirely different reason)
Read what others have said about it, not just me
I did suggest you should 'leave it' earlier, it's not doing you any good, is it? |
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| Expectations on 23:04 - Oct 9 with 5011 views | D_Alien |
| Expectations on 22:47 - Oct 9 by Phil |
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