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The Telegraph â€@Telegraph 1m1 minute ago Latest #football4sale allegations concern Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink at QPR, Tommy Wright of Barnsley and Leeds' Massimo Cellino
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:52 - Sep 29 with 3295 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:30 - Sep 29 by GaryT
"Whatever the facts he has brought our club into disrepute"
It would seem from some of the posts in this thread that his Ch**sea background and below par performances are swaying some peoples opinions but this one just made me LOL and reminded me of this...
"Now THAT is scientific fact, there's no real evidence for it but it is scientific fact.
We know these guys earn stupid money so hearing them talk about £50k or £400k for a few days abroad making speeches pisses us off big time but it's the world they live in. A lot of us don't earn £50k a year but you can't let that sway your opinion to "he's a greedy SOB and has to go". £50k is a week's wages for some of these guys so we have to get over ourselves and just live with it.
Are they all at it? Of course they bleedin are! Don't be naive. It's just that our zebra has been targeted by the crocodiles whilst all the other zebras are looking on thinking, "that could have been me".
There's also the thing about what you say to one person in private is not necessarily what you really believe (or will do when push comes to shove).
He was negotiating a fee for a job in the International break, forget about how much he already earns and what you could do with that money, is there anything really wrong with that? The real issue here is what he said when asked about taking players, he sort of laughed it off saying something like it had to be a really good player....that's what they wanted to hear but in all probability is not what he would do as he knows he doesn't have the final say but they don't know that. A fool and his money etc... he hasn't agreed to anything with regard to players so keeps the conversation open ended so as not to jeopardise the £50k deal for the 3 day jolly.
Problem is he was caught on camera and in this day and age, that means you are hung drawn and quartered within minutes of the news breaking "whatever the facts". Oh well, here we go again....
That's pretty much how it looks to me - give me the £50k, I'll do a couple of presentations where I talk about being a winner, team management and playing golf with Dennis Wise, and when I get home and you start trying to fob shi t players from the Greek 3rd division off on me, I'll just ignore your calls or tell you I'd love to help, but it's not me who decides which players get signed - I can only make recommendations and hope for the best.
I wouldn't be happy if that was the Fulham manager and it doesn't paint him in a great light either way, but there's no evidence that he ever intended to go along with signing any of their theoretical players. If you look at the number of managers who continually sign players from the same agents/advisers (usually their own agent), it's completely dispiriting. You could charitably argue that their agent is looking after the coach by giving them the pick of the bunch or you could imagine the backhanders flying this way and that. Football full of ethically shaky, greedy bastards: who knew?
Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:55 - Sep 29 with 3270 views
JFHs answer to the "stingers" should have been "In the Championship we have 2 games a week so I wouldn't have time to go on a speaking trip and my focus is totally on QPR" not "Give me more money to me me happy!" This last sentence will have been viewed by every QPR player.
JFH cannot possibly keep the dressing room after this.
He has to go.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:55 - Sep 29 with 3262 views
My tuppence worth, having seen the footage. The footage is heavily edited. Aside from appearing to be open to negotiating a fee for an unspecified level of interaction with this fake sports firm, he doesn't appear to actually do anything or commit to doing anything untoward. An attempted stitch up by a despicable rag. Jimmy doesn't come out of it looking too great but he hasn't done anything criminal. Move along.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:57 - Sep 29 with 3250 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 02:46 - Sep 29 by Nov77
All of this at the time the club are stalling on a testimonial for Stan over costs! if JFH gets sacked he'll probably walk away with a payoff that would have covered stan's medical bills. Is there any justice in that? Really am sick of it all now.
I think that's worth saying again
Strong and stable my arse.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:58 - Sep 29 with 3240 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:55 - Sep 29 by BerkoRanger
JFHs answer to the "stingers" should have been "In the Championship we have 2 games a week so I wouldn't have time to go on a speaking trip and my focus is totally on QPR" not "Give me more money to me me happy!" This last sentence will have been viewed by every QPR player.
JFH cannot possibly keep the dressing room after this.
He has to go.
Yeh and the "if it's an international week I can give them Sunday, Monday and Tuesday off". That's nice, not like we have much to work on is it?
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:00 - Sep 29 with 3234 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:39 - Sep 29 by Hunterhoop
Yep. And now we're in a mess again. Now we have to start the whole "long term" thing again. Third time lucky?!
Like Bri, just disappointed in him. Bri's exactly right. He could have said what Bri said. He didn't. He's been an idiot.
Okay , but now you have to find someone who is available,suitable, and now squeeky clean . Otherwise you are just swapping the devil you know for one you don't .
Speaking personally it's the integrity of the game on the pitch that matters to me . One sniff of match fixing and that's it for me. If he finds us a decent player and gets a finders fee I don't care . If he lumbers us with a dud then he gets the heat as the manager .
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:00 - Sep 29 by richranger
So Jimmy was offered a shit loads of money to go Singapore for a few days to make a speech - who would turn that down???
Jimmy doesn't sign our players, it's all done through Les Ferdinand.
So has he actually done anything wrong?
Yes, because
1 - the money is being offered by a company that also says it wants to move players into the UK, so that's a conflict of interest.
2 - He talks about "helping him out a bit" when referring to an agent friend, all sorts of questions about that.
3 - Talks about giving the players three days off so he can go to Singapore to give a speech - at a time when we're supposed to be bedding in a new team.
4 - It was clearly said at the fans forum, by JFH, that we sign players in a number of ways, including "If I have a name I will bring it to them".
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:06 - Sep 29 with 3176 views
There's nothing wrong with negotiating a fee to go and advise people interested in his knowledge, it's extra curricular work and it's a staple part of most businesses. If someone in the far east wants to pay him 55k to go and speak on football, etc, then fine.
The 2nd part however, where they purposely talk about their 'other business interests' pertaining to players and if he would be flexible there, should have been shut down. I know in the moment you're trying to be accomodating and have a laugh and joke to keep the mood going, but you have to just say no and give the appropriate position, which is that you're unable to do that and all transfer stuff will have to be through the correct channels. It's the fact he's even potentially receptive which is the concern. Shame.
I don't understand why he hasn't been suspended while they investigate though...
ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:08 - Sep 29 with 3155 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:35 - Sep 29 by Antti_Heinola
I dunno. They've been at this for months. They would have gone for whoever they (and more importantly, McGarvey) could get a meeting with, and JFH is a well-known name and also QPR have name value. Am I reading it wrong, or is their entire sting based on the unknowing McGarvey and his contacts?
All managers are desperate for players. All the time. So, other than managers at places like Man U or Man C, where you can pretty much buy whoever you want, if someone asks you these two questions:
1. Would you speak to our investors for £55k? 2. Would you then take a look at some players?
The answer would be yes to both. We talk about conflict of interests, but managers routinely sign players who they share an agent with, for example. Conflict of interests is rife in this game. The idea that all signings are brought in by scouts is so out of date it's untrue - managers spend half their lives fielding calls from agents, even cultivating relationships with agents so they can get players. It is really murky, but that is how it is.
Personally, I think there is conflict of interest here. But I also think the fact JFH says he hasn't googled them yet shows he's not committing to anything. I don't think £55k for an ex-Prem player and now manager to speak in the far east is an outlandish figure at all - even low level celebs get £30k for doing corporates over here, so £55k for a 3 or 4 day trip is hardly ridiculous (as much as it feels like it is).
I think he's been stung, I think he's been embarrassed and ultimately I think he'll probably have to go - but good luck finding anyone who wouldn't have at least taken a meeting with these people and who wouldn't have answered in a similar way to JFH. I mean, at Burton he was on 60k per year, one of the lowest paid managers in the league. It doesn't feel like he's motivated by money. So he's fked up big time.
As others have said, if we were top of the league, fans would be circling the wagons. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that our three previous managers before Ramsey have done far worse than this, including the fan (and my) favourite. Two of those I have heard stories from people directly involved (one player, one chief scout) with them that make this pale into insignificance. But Jimmy's the one on camera.
A real shame. Would like to see the whole video though. Les must be furious.
I feel very confused not least by what other people think. I mean, i think that what Allardyce did was far worse as there was the 'slavery' issue at stake. And yet people who think that Allardyce shouldn't have gone now think that JFH should go. I'm trying to fathom out why JFH is considered worse than Allardyce. Yes he's ours and that makes a difference I suppose. Reading between the lines the club seems to think that its processes as regards transfers, and that means a tier of management involved in every transfer, protect us from this sort of abuse. So if JFH blags himself a few quid then it's hardly ideal but it's not going to affect that process of dealing with transfers. I can get that and if that's the line that they wish to take then they need to explain it in some detail. I never wanted JFH to go before this and I still think that he could end up as a very good manager, he's still learning including about this stuff. He's not a tired old man stuck in his ways. But at the same time, our support is made up of too many pissed up coked up twittering idiots and I'm not sure that he should bother staying as so many want him out already and why not just do a deal and go? I despair really. I don't know why he had that meeting in the first place - I doubt that he got involved in anything at Burton as they seem to keep a tight ship too, like Hoos is doing. Hoos was a big part in us appointing him and most people seem to like Hoos so should we drop him in it if he wants to crack on with JFH, if that's the case? To be honest, it's all too confusing, too many factors, and I wouldn't know what to do. Yesterday I would have sacked him but today, I just don't know anymore.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:10 - Sep 29 with 3141 views
Never a dull moment at LR. The place is cursed! I'm certain the ghost of Jim Gregory prowls the place feeding dark ideas into the heads of gullible managers or owners who come along and who are prepared to listen to his devious spectral ramblings of running a club dishonestly. Honestly!!
There aint half been some clever bastards.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:14 - Sep 29 with 3110 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:58 - Sep 29 by Northernr
Yeh and the "if it's an international week I can give them Sunday, Monday and Tuesday off". That's nice, not like we have much to work on is it?
thats the part which annoys me the most and most defiantly means hes more intrested in putting his own intrests in front of the teams. dead man walking im affraid he wont fancy the walk across the pitch sat if we are losing thats for sure
Just gone over it on Ssn, he has a clause allowing him to do commercial work on days off, saying that the video is highly edited to make him look bad and he has no say in any transfer anyhow as les and lee look after that side of things, he may have been naive but not as guilty as he looks.
favourite cheese mature Cheddar. FFS there is no such thing as the EPL
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:03 - Sep 29 by Northernr
Yes, because
1 - the money is being offered by a company that also says it wants to move players into the UK, so that's a conflict of interest.
2 - He talks about "helping him out a bit" when referring to an agent friend, all sorts of questions about that.
3 - Talks about giving the players three days off so he can go to Singapore to give a speech - at a time when we're supposed to be bedding in a new team.
4 - It was clearly said at the fans forum, by JFH, that we sign players in a number of ways, including "If I have a name I will bring it to them".
Where does he commit to introducing a player ? Couldn't attending the meeting at all be construed as helping his friend who was hoping for a job offer from the bogus firm ? How many days off do other clubs give their first team after a Sat game in international week ? What is wrong with him suggesting a player if the Board including a director of football have to approve a signing ?
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:17 - Sep 29 with 3047 views
It's true that both tapes have been heavily edited. Big Sam's is just 3 1/2 minutes out maybe 3 1/2 hours.The Telegraph has stitched them up - BUT - they picked the guys they knew would say anything if enough money was waved around. Can't be trusted, off you go.
Strong and stable my arse.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:21 - Sep 29 with 3004 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:35 - Sep 29 by Antti_Heinola
I dunno. They've been at this for months. They would have gone for whoever they (and more importantly, McGarvey) could get a meeting with, and JFH is a well-known name and also QPR have name value. Am I reading it wrong, or is their entire sting based on the unknowing McGarvey and his contacts?
All managers are desperate for players. All the time. So, other than managers at places like Man U or Man C, where you can pretty much buy whoever you want, if someone asks you these two questions:
1. Would you speak to our investors for £55k? 2. Would you then take a look at some players?
The answer would be yes to both. We talk about conflict of interests, but managers routinely sign players who they share an agent with, for example. Conflict of interests is rife in this game. The idea that all signings are brought in by scouts is so out of date it's untrue - managers spend half their lives fielding calls from agents, even cultivating relationships with agents so they can get players. It is really murky, but that is how it is.
Personally, I think there is conflict of interest here. But I also think the fact JFH says he hasn't googled them yet shows he's not committing to anything. I don't think £55k for an ex-Prem player and now manager to speak in the far east is an outlandish figure at all - even low level celebs get £30k for doing corporates over here, so £55k for a 3 or 4 day trip is hardly ridiculous (as much as it feels like it is).
I think he's been stung, I think he's been embarrassed and ultimately I think he'll probably have to go - but good luck finding anyone who wouldn't have at least taken a meeting with these people and who wouldn't have answered in a similar way to JFH. I mean, at Burton he was on 60k per year, one of the lowest paid managers in the league. It doesn't feel like he's motivated by money. So he's fked up big time.
As others have said, if we were top of the league, fans would be circling the wagons. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that our three previous managers before Ramsey have done far worse than this, including the fan (and my) favourite. Two of those I have heard stories from people directly involved (one player, one chief scout) with them that make this pale into insignificance. But Jimmy's the one on camera.
A real shame. Would like to see the whole video though. Les must be furious.
Yes this nails it for me, thank you.
I would have to agree his position is untenable now but the argument for bringing the club into disrepute is a lot stronger than the ethical imponderables. Hunterhoop has argued his case very well, I wouldn't disagree in many ways. But it's simply not how football has ever worked. I find the morality suddenly, selectively, stiffening to suit the situation hard to accept.
The way some are carrying on about this on the sanctimonious high horse is absurd to me - either laughably naive, wilfully disingenuous, or transparently opportunistic. If you make the rules this black and white then practically everything you've supported over the years is tainted. Insinuations about Warnock have been consistent over the years and I look forward seeing to him being damned just as JFH is being now should anything related him come to light.
[Post edited 29 Sep 2016 9:22]
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:22 - Sep 29 with 2993 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:14 - Sep 29 by wombat
thats the part which annoys me the most and most defiantly means hes more intrested in putting his own intrests in front of the teams. dead man walking im affraid he wont fancy the walk across the pitch sat if we are losing thats for sure
Isn't it reasonable to give them three days off inc Sunday after a game on a Sat and no more games for 2 weeks .. ?
Barrel scraping IMO
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:27 - Sep 29 with 2954 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:06 - Sep 29 by simmo
There's nothing wrong with negotiating a fee to go and advise people interested in his knowledge, it's extra curricular work and it's a staple part of most businesses. If someone in the far east wants to pay him 55k to go and speak on football, etc, then fine.
The 2nd part however, where they purposely talk about their 'other business interests' pertaining to players and if he would be flexible there, should have been shut down. I know in the moment you're trying to be accomodating and have a laugh and joke to keep the mood going, but you have to just say no and give the appropriate position, which is that you're unable to do that and all transfer stuff will have to be through the correct channels. It's the fact he's even potentially receptive which is the concern. Shame.
I don't understand why he hasn't been suspended while they investigate though...
It can't be the first time he's done this sort of thing - otherwise how would he know the going rate? He was very quick to slap down the £35k offer, and clearly had £55k or £60k in mind.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:27 - Sep 29 with 2949 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:21 - Sep 29 by rsonist
Yes this nails it for me, thank you.
I would have to agree his position is untenable now but the argument for bringing the club into disrepute is a lot stronger than the ethical imponderables. Hunterhoop has argued his case very well, I wouldn't disagree in many ways. But it's simply not how football has ever worked. I find the morality suddenly, selectively, stiffening to suit the situation hard to accept.
The way some are carrying on about this on the sanctimonious high horse is absurd to me - either laughably naive, wilfully disingenuous, or transparently opportunistic. If you make the rules this black and white then practically everything you've supported over the years is tainted. Insinuations about Warnock have been consistent over the years and I look forward seeing to him being damned just as JFH is being now should anything related him come to light.
[Post edited 29 Sep 2016 9:22]
"transparently opportunistic " nail ..head
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:27 - Sep 29 with 2948 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 08:26 - Sep 29 by Northernr
Yeh, agree with you and Hunter, and I think all three of us were keen for him to stay originally.
Me too. The last thing I wanted was to have another managerial change. We need stability and patience, and fans saying they are willing to be patient and then actually being patient.
I can't see how he can stay, whether what he has done is illegal or not, its about trust and repaying the faith put into you.
Sad, but i think its all over.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:34 - Sep 29 with 2872 views
Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:27 - Sep 29 by GloryHunter
It can't be the first time he's done this sort of thing - otherwise how would he know the going rate? He was very quick to slap down the £35k offer, and clearly had £55k or £60k in mind.
Well he does have an agent so presumably he has a scale of charges of some sort?
Clearly he was on the make here and it's very disappointing and part of me thinks he has to go and part of me thinks that we don't need that right now and will the owners get pissed off with it all if he goes - it's too much for them perhaps to go through all over again, I just don't know.
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Hasselbaink in the Telegraph on 09:38 - Sep 29 with 3399 views
Hasselbaink wasn't as active as usual on the bench the other night, to the point where I mentioned it to my mate with me. He was obviously sh1tting it after seeing Allardyce in the same restaurant he'd been in, talking to the same people he'd spoken to, in the Telegraph the night before.
I'm actually hopeful JFH can patch this up with the club. I feel as though we were going to get there eventually and we haven't had the chance to see the best out of a lot of the players he's signed, Washington in particular.
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