| Full Backs 14:32 - Aug 14 with 6214 views | shandyjack |
All the talk of our full backs being poor, i thouhg they both did very well yesterday. Kingsley's balls into the box were superb and Naughton seemed more switched on than normal |  |
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| Full Backs on 06:44 - Aug 15 with 1366 views | jack247 |
| Full Backs on 06:42 - Aug 15 by Dr_Winston |
In fairness when Curt said that everyone laughed. |
In the belief they knew more about football than Alan Curtis. Some probably called him a tea boy too. |  | | |
| Full Backs on 07:10 - Aug 15 with 1350 views | Dr_Winston |
| Full Backs on 06:44 - Aug 15 by jack247 |
In the belief they knew more about football than Alan Curtis. Some probably called him a tea boy too. |
Struggling to think of an occasion when anyone has ever called him that.
Curt was wrong. It happens. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Full Backs on 08:01 - Aug 15 with 1315 views | jack247 |
| Full Backs on 07:10 - Aug 15 by Dr_Winston |
Struggling to think of an occasion when anyone has ever called him that.
Curt was wrong. It happens. |
Tea boy and knows where the kettle is type comments were pretty prevalent on here while Monk was in charge and his role seemed marginalised.
To be honest, I agree, in my opinion Gylfi was player of the season, at the time of the quote it was probably Ayew. It wasn't an outlandish claim though, it was easy to see where he was coming from even if you disagreed. | | | |
| Full Backs on 09:50 - Aug 15 with 1272 views | Jack_Kass |
A subjectful and unfounded opinion is more telling than indisputable evidence pointing to the contrary? Wow. The first link just says he's played over 100 pl games, what can we learn from that? Zilch.
Hopefully Kingsley keeps him out of the team, leading to another sulk from Neil and his agent trying to move him on again. We might be a bit wiser to ship him out this time. | |
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| Full Backs on 10:00 - Aug 15 with 1255 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Full Backs on 07:10 - Aug 15 by Dr_Winston |
Struggling to think of an occasion when anyone has ever called him that.
Curt was wrong. It happens. |
I think Monk more or less treated him like a tea boy...... |  |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Full Backs on 10:01 - Aug 15 with 1253 views | johnlangy |
| Full Backs on 17:40 - Aug 14 by shandyjack |
Can't pass the ball - Nonsense, passes it sideways and backwards very well
Can't cross the ball - Agreed
Can't stop opposition players going past him with the ball - Disagree
Can't go past opposition players in front of him with the ball - Agreed
Can't dispose opposition of possession - Disagree
Can't keep possession -Disagree
Can't score for his club - Not his job
Can't stop people scoring against his club - Not all down to him is it
All players have weaknesses of course, but none of them have them in such abundance as Neil Taylor.
Time to Get rid. - Nonsense, is good enough for a team of our calibre |
Thanks for the sanity shandyjack. | | | |
| Full Backs on 10:02 - Aug 15 with 1250 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Full Backs on 09:50 - Aug 15 by Jack_Kass |
A subjectful and unfounded opinion is more telling than indisputable evidence pointing to the contrary? Wow. The first link just says he's played over 100 pl games, what can we learn from that? Zilch.
Hopefully Kingsley keeps him out of the team, leading to another sulk from Neil and his agent trying to move him on again. We might be a bit wiser to ship him out this time. |
Judging by what happened with Williams I'd say that was a certainty. The days of being held ransom by players are gone. Hurrah! | |
| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Full Backs on 10:05 - Aug 15 with 1248 views | shandyjack |
| Full Backs on 10:01 - Aug 15 by johnlangy |
Thanks for the sanity shandyjack. |
thank you, this stuff just annoys me, they are not the best Full backs in the world if they were they wouldn't be at a mid table club like us. They can be imporved apon but that comes at a cost, at this time they are good enough to enable us to focus on strenthgening others areas. We could do a lot worse than the 4 full backs we have on our books.
I wouldn't swap them with
Watford
Stoke
Palace
Burnley
West Brom
Sunderland | |
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| Full Backs on 10:12 - Aug 15 with 1238 views | jack247 |
| Full Backs on 09:50 - Aug 15 by Jack_Kass |
A subjectful and unfounded opinion is more telling than indisputable evidence pointing to the contrary? Wow. The first link just says he's played over 100 pl games, what can we learn from that? Zilch.
Hopefully Kingsley keeps him out of the team, leading to another sulk from Neil and his agent trying to move him on again. We might be a bit wiser to ship him out this time. |
We can learn that we have been in the PL for 5 years and that only once have we actively tried to replace him (Tabanou). Davies was a youth product who came in as backup when Taylor got injured, did really well and justifiably kept his place. If Kingsley takes his place now, great, I'm all for improving the team. If he doesn't, I won't be surprised because Taylor seems to be vastly underrated by many, but not by the people who matter.
If we want wingbacks behind Routledge, Kingsley is a long way ahead. If we are playing Barrow or Montero and need a more defensive minded fullback, then Taylor is better defensively.
Stats have their place in football, but they are no substitute for watching a game and understanding what is going on.
If he was anywhere near as bad as you or those stats imply, we would have shipped him out after a season. | | | |
| Full Backs on 11:16 - Aug 15 with 1202 views | Jack_Kass |
| Full Backs on 10:12 - Aug 15 by jack247 |
We can learn that we have been in the PL for 5 years and that only once have we actively tried to replace him (Tabanou). Davies was a youth product who came in as backup when Taylor got injured, did really well and justifiably kept his place. If Kingsley takes his place now, great, I'm all for improving the team. If he doesn't, I won't be surprised because Taylor seems to be vastly underrated by many, but not by the people who matter.
If we want wingbacks behind Routledge, Kingsley is a long way ahead. If we are playing Barrow or Montero and need a more defensive minded fullback, then Taylor is better defensively.
Stats have their place in football, but they are no substitute for watching a game and understanding what is going on.
If he was anywhere near as bad as you or those stats imply, we would have shipped him out after a season. |
You mention understanding but there seems to be a dearth of it from yourself.
The statistical figures presented show that last season, was his worst in terms of performance over 30 games, and part of a downward trend overall in his time here. He is not a player that has improved since his first season, or even maintained his levels since then. A statement, in support of the statistical evidence, of whom many that 'watch games and understand what is going on', will agree with. His injury is not a worthy excuse.
How could we have shipped him out after a season, 4 years in advance of the evidence that his levels of performance are deteriorating, with a crystal ball perhaps? Unfounded argument, and no substitute for reading what is being said, and understanding it.
Your line of argument seems to be based on nothing more that I've apparently never watched a game and so don't understand anything about it, the 'I go to the stadium so I knows my apples' line is a bit silly.
I seemingly can't bow to your supreme reading and comprehension of the game, but I think 99% of spectators are able to watch a game and recognise when a player fails to make a pass to his team mate (i.e the ball goes to the opposition), or when a player fails to pursue his defensive responsibilities and defend his goal, (i.e the ball ends up in our net) and thus fails to do his job.
It's a simple game over complicated by those who seemingly have a 'greater understanding' than anyone else, but still fail to see what is in front of their very eyes.
We can play with wing backs, half backs, inverted full backs, it's all the same, and doesn't change anything.
The player cannot pass accurately, cannot defend effectively, and cannot perform up to the required level. You keep your 'understanding', I think I'll keep what is plainly obvious. | |
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| Full Backs on 11:52 - Aug 15 with 1179 views | A_Fans_Dad |
Who is Taylor going to hide behind when he is having a mare now that Ash has gone? | | | |
| Full Backs on 12:11 - Aug 15 with 1157 views | A_Fans_Dad |
Anyone rate DeAndre Yedlin? | | | |
| Full Backs on 12:24 - Aug 15 with 1134 views | jack247 |
| Full Backs on 11:16 - Aug 15 by Jack_Kass |
You mention understanding but there seems to be a dearth of it from yourself.
The statistical figures presented show that last season, was his worst in terms of performance over 30 games, and part of a downward trend overall in his time here. He is not a player that has improved since his first season, or even maintained his levels since then. A statement, in support of the statistical evidence, of whom many that 'watch games and understand what is going on', will agree with. His injury is not a worthy excuse.
How could we have shipped him out after a season, 4 years in advance of the evidence that his levels of performance are deteriorating, with a crystal ball perhaps? Unfounded argument, and no substitute for reading what is being said, and understanding it.
Your line of argument seems to be based on nothing more that I've apparently never watched a game and so don't understand anything about it, the 'I go to the stadium so I knows my apples' line is a bit silly.
I seemingly can't bow to your supreme reading and comprehension of the game, but I think 99% of spectators are able to watch a game and recognise when a player fails to make a pass to his team mate (i.e the ball goes to the opposition), or when a player fails to pursue his defensive responsibilities and defend his goal, (i.e the ball ends up in our net) and thus fails to do his job.
It's a simple game over complicated by those who seemingly have a 'greater understanding' than anyone else, but still fail to see what is in front of their very eyes.
We can play with wing backs, half backs, inverted full backs, it's all the same, and doesn't change anything.
The player cannot pass accurately, cannot defend effectively, and cannot perform up to the required level. You keep your 'understanding', I think I'll keep what is plainly obvious. |
I'm not suggesting you don't go to games. I'm suggesting you don't fully understand what's going on. I'm purely basing that on your arguments, not because you dislike Taylor. I've had a look at sqwaka and t gives him 78% pass completion for last season. What is doesn't tell me is how many of those were simple balls back to Fab or sideways to Ash, how many were down the line to Montero or Routledge, how much pressure he was under, how many easy options he had or how difficult the intended pass was. I'd expect that figure to be lower than the centre backs and defensive midfielders, higher than the wingers, attacking midfielders and strikers. Stats don't give you important intangibles. Remember when Mark Gower was the best midfielder in Europe?
Nor am I suggesting I'm some kind of football genius. Just that I can see where Taylor is stronger than Kingsley as well as where he is weaker.
Your last two sentences pretty much confirm it. If you think that playing as a wingback doesn't require a different skillset to fullback, then you may as well stick to your moneyball method of analysing players and I'll keep to my 'understanding' safe in the knowledge that three of our last four managers have been happy with Taylor, including two last season. | | | |
| Full Backs on 13:07 - Aug 15 with 1110 views | jasper_T |
| Full Backs on 12:11 - Aug 15 by A_Fans_Dad |
Anyone rate DeAndre Yedlin? |
I'm sure someone does. Probably Americans? | | | |
| Full Backs on 17:03 - Aug 15 with 1016 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Full Backs on 12:24 - Aug 15 by jack247 |
I'm not suggesting you don't go to games. I'm suggesting you don't fully understand what's going on. I'm purely basing that on your arguments, not because you dislike Taylor. I've had a look at sqwaka and t gives him 78% pass completion for last season. What is doesn't tell me is how many of those were simple balls back to Fab or sideways to Ash, how many were down the line to Montero or Routledge, how much pressure he was under, how many easy options he had or how difficult the intended pass was. I'd expect that figure to be lower than the centre backs and defensive midfielders, higher than the wingers, attacking midfielders and strikers. Stats don't give you important intangibles. Remember when Mark Gower was the best midfielder in Europe?
Nor am I suggesting I'm some kind of football genius. Just that I can see where Taylor is stronger than Kingsley as well as where he is weaker.
Your last two sentences pretty much confirm it. If you think that playing as a wingback doesn't require a different skillset to fullback, then you may as well stick to your moneyball method of analysing players and I'll keep to my 'understanding' safe in the knowledge that three of our last four managers have been happy with Taylor, including two last season. |
Perhaps while you were in Sqwaka you should have entered Angel Rangel, you know that ageing player that everyone says is getting past it.
You could also look at forward and back passes as well.
You would then have seen that the ageing Rangel, despite playing 11 games less than Taylor had 1257 passes to Taylor's 1258 passes.
He had 845 forward passes to Taylor's 761.
He had 80% pass completion to Taylor's 78% despite his passes being longer as well.
He won 35 tackles to Taylor's 32.
He had 76.5% successful take ons to Taylor's 50%.
He only lost 34 tackles to Taylor's 52.
So if Rangel is only "squad level" what does that make Taylor? | | | |
| Full Backs on 17:23 - Aug 15 with 956 views | Tummer_from_Texas |
| Full Backs on 13:07 - Aug 15 by jasper_T |
I'm sure someone does. Probably Americans? |
No, not this one.
He's not worthless, but I doubt he'll improve the club. |  |
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| Full Backs on 17:48 - Aug 15 with 934 views | jack247 |
| Full Backs on 17:03 - Aug 15 by A_Fans_Dad |
Perhaps while you were in Sqwaka you should have entered Angel Rangel, you know that ageing player that everyone says is getting past it.
You could also look at forward and back passes as well.
You would then have seen that the ageing Rangel, despite playing 11 games less than Taylor had 1257 passes to Taylor's 1258 passes.
He had 845 forward passes to Taylor's 761.
He had 80% pass completion to Taylor's 78% despite his passes being longer as well.
He won 35 tackles to Taylor's 32.
He had 76.5% successful take ons to Taylor's 50%.
He only lost 34 tackles to Taylor's 52.
So if Rangel is only "squad level" what does that make Taylor? |
Why would I do that? I watch the games. It's not championship manager.
Stats have their place, no denying that. You will just have to forgive me for not taking people opinions too seriously when they use them as a first line of justifying something.
Are you able to provide me with stats on the number of times each full back was left exposed by their winger, the quality of the opposition winger they were up against, how often they made decent runs that didn't get picked out, how many times they covered a run, thereby preventing an attack without having to actually touch the ball, how many times they got caught out of position, how many of the tackles were 50/50s etc etc. This could run infinitely because football is full of variables that stats won't recognise.
As an aside, I'm not arguing that he is Ashley Cole in his prime or even that he should start every game, I like Kingsley as well, they have very different qualities, just that the previous posters list of things he could not or did not do was complete nonsense. | | | |
| Full Backs on 17:50 - Aug 15 with 928 views | karnataka |
| Full Backs on 17:48 - Aug 15 by jack247 |
Why would I do that? I watch the games. It's not championship manager.
Stats have their place, no denying that. You will just have to forgive me for not taking people opinions too seriously when they use them as a first line of justifying something.
Are you able to provide me with stats on the number of times each full back was left exposed by their winger, the quality of the opposition winger they were up against, how often they made decent runs that didn't get picked out, how many times they covered a run, thereby preventing an attack without having to actually touch the ball, how many times they got caught out of position, how many of the tackles were 50/50s etc etc. This could run infinitely because football is full of variables that stats won't recognise.
As an aside, I'm not arguing that he is Ashley Cole in his prime or even that he should start every game, I like Kingsley as well, they have very different qualities, just that the previous posters list of things he could not or did not do was complete nonsense. |
Well said that man. Common sense. |  | | |
| Full Backs on 18:12 - Aug 15 with 910 views | Griffting |
See that Kingsley has been mentioned in a couple of people's 'team of the week'. Good on him, deserves the praise. Is he not still unbeaten in the prem?? Be nice if he could carry that on all season!! |  | | |
| Full Backs on 18:56 - Aug 15 with 894 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Full Backs on 17:48 - Aug 15 by jack247 |
Why would I do that? I watch the games. It's not championship manager.
Stats have their place, no denying that. You will just have to forgive me for not taking people opinions too seriously when they use them as a first line of justifying something.
Are you able to provide me with stats on the number of times each full back was left exposed by their winger, the quality of the opposition winger they were up against, how often they made decent runs that didn't get picked out, how many times they covered a run, thereby preventing an attack without having to actually touch the ball, how many times they got caught out of position, how many of the tackles were 50/50s etc etc. This could run infinitely because football is full of variables that stats won't recognise.
As an aside, I'm not arguing that he is Ashley Cole in his prime or even that he should start every game, I like Kingsley as well, they have very different qualities, just that the previous posters list of things he could not or did not do was complete nonsense. |
Stop making excuses, the facts speak for themselves.
You did note that Rangel played 11, yes 11 games less and made as many passes and more tackles than Taylor.
Are you seriously suggesting that all those things you listed ONLY applied to Taylor and Rangel never had the same conditions.
Whenever Taylor was getting skinned last season he went and hid behind Ash.
Well Ash isn't there this year, so I am not so sure the others in the team or the Manager will put up with that for long this year. | | | |
| Full Backs on 19:32 - Aug 15 with 879 views | jack247 |
| Full Backs on 18:56 - Aug 15 by A_Fans_Dad |
Stop making excuses, the facts speak for themselves.
You did note that Rangel played 11, yes 11 games less and made as many passes and more tackles than Taylor.
Are you seriously suggesting that all those things you listed ONLY applied to Taylor and Rangel never had the same conditions.
Whenever Taylor was getting skinned last season he went and hid behind Ash.
Well Ash isn't there this year, so I am not so sure the others in the team or the Manager will put up with that for long this year. |
No of course I'm not. Those things apply to everyone and can't be measured with one dimensional stats. That's the point I was making. I didn't bring Rangel into it and don't think he or Kingsley or anyone else is relevant to the point I was disputing, which was...
Taylor....
Can't pass
Can't tackle
Can't mark
Is at fault for all the goals we concede
Etc
I readily agree that his shooting and crossing is awful, I've never denied it.
Why do you think he gets picked so often? | | | |
| Full Backs on 19:41 - Aug 15 with 872 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Full Backs on 19:32 - Aug 15 by jack247 |
No of course I'm not. Those things apply to everyone and can't be measured with one dimensional stats. That's the point I was making. I didn't bring Rangel into it and don't think he or Kingsley or anyone else is relevant to the point I was disputing, which was...
Taylor....
Can't pass
Can't tackle
Can't mark
Is at fault for all the goals we concede
Etc
I readily agree that his shooting and crossing is awful, I've never denied it.
Why do you think he gets picked so often? |
Because until they were brave enough to try Kingsley there wasn't anyone else to play.
Although Naughton on the left showed how poor Taylor was as well. | | | |
| Full Backs on 19:51 - Aug 15 with 864 views | jack247 |
| Full Backs on 19:41 - Aug 15 by A_Fans_Dad |
Because until they were brave enough to try Kingsley there wasn't anyone else to play.
Although Naughton on the left showed how poor Taylor was as well. |
And you think it's coincidence there wasn't anyone else to play? We have signed one left back to compete with him since being in the PL. Don't you think we would have signed someone if he was that bad? Or played someone like Tiendalli or Tabanou?
You understand the bit about stats now? | | | |
| Full Backs on 19:58 - Aug 15 with 852 views | jasper_T |
| Full Backs on 19:51 - Aug 15 by jack247 |
And you think it's coincidence there wasn't anyone else to play? We have signed one left back to compete with him since being in the PL. Don't you think we would have signed someone if he was that bad? Or played someone like Tiendalli or Tabanou?
You understand the bit about stats now? |
Big Ash handled the company chequebook and he wasn't going to replace his mate was he? | | | |
| Full Backs on 20:13 - Aug 15 with 842 views | jack247 |
| Full Backs on 19:58 - Aug 15 by jasper_T |
Big Ash handled the company chequebook and he wasn't going to replace his mate was he? |
You're better than that | | | |
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