| When will this stop? on 14:53 - Jul 28 with 4358 views | 1mark1 |
I probably don't have the relevant qualifications needed for those jobs, though I would love to be able to be employed full time in such a job to do with politics.
As a Green Party member did have the info about the jobs sent to us by email. [Post edited 28 Jul 2015 14:55]
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| When will this stop? on 22:54 - Jul 29 with 4059 views | EllGazzell |
| When will this stop? on 11:33 - Jul 25 by tazzydjr |
I completely agree WW3 will happen in my lifetime it's coming the people can feel it coming as you say history will repeat itself and the devil praying lunatics will lose good always beats evil i noticed they didn't have the problem we have over here in Czech allegedly they stopped the problem before it began |
Allegedly what? Stopped what in Czech? What problem is not here? |  |
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| When will this stop? on 00:41 - Jul 30 with 4058 views | joecooke |
Lets not kid ourselves,that asian lads want too ruin young white girls.
Quite why they want to do that is embroiled in working class ,pakistani thoughts. |  |
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| When will this stop? on 07:03 - Jul 30 with 4028 views | Nigeriamark |
| When will this stop? on 00:41 - Jul 30 by joecooke |
Lets not kid ourselves,that asian lads want too ruin young white girls.
Quite why they want to do that is embroiled in working class ,pakistani thoughts. |
So if I follow your logic, because a tiny proportion of the asian community have been involved in grooming, your conclusion is that all asian lads want to abuse white girls
A number of cases have been reported of an equally tiny proportion of white paedo men grooming boys down to toddler and even baby age. Therefore I assume you would agree that all white lads want to ruin little male babies and toddlers
Would that be because of our working class english thoughts? Don't recall having them when I was at school |  | | |
| When will this stop? on 08:22 - Jul 30 with 4004 views | joecooke |
Tiny proportion possibly Mark,although i reckon it may be more than you think.
These gangs are driven by a misguided warped/religious view of women in western society and a massive chip on the shoulder. Perhaps the sub serviant approach to women that they adopt mostly doesn't sit right with them .
[Post edited 30 Jul 2015 8:37]
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| When will this stop? on 08:37 - Jul 30 with 3982 views | R17ALE |
I see the words "tiny proportion" far too often when it comes to discussing problems within the Muslim communities in England.
The vast majority have warped minds. The ones who claim the majority are moderate are probably right, but their version of moderate is extremism to the likes of me.
I would say the majority turn a blind eye to ISIS and the majority are not repulsed when it comes to light some 14 year old girl has been gang raped above a kebab shop.
It might be a "tiny proportion" actually committing the crimes, but the majority do not feel any collective guilt.
Say if a Dale fan stabbed an opposition fan in a random act of savageness, we'd all be embarrassed and ashamed. We'd offer our apologies. We'd be humble and swear to root out the culprit. A lesson Islam should learn but won't. |  |
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| When will this stop? on 02:07 - Jul 31 with 3871 views | Nigeriamark |
| When will this stop? on 08:22 - Jul 30 by joecooke |
Tiny proportion possibly Mark,although i reckon it may be more than you think.
These gangs are driven by a misguided warped/religious view of women in western society and a massive chip on the shoulder. Perhaps the sub serviant approach to women that they adopt mostly doesn't sit right with them .
[Post edited 30 Jul 2015 8:37]
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I could be wrong that there is more than I tiny minority. however that would that would also probably apply to the white group 2
In terms of having lack of respect for their victims, this is clear that something drives this. However as a lot of white gangs seem to target even younger kids ( even babies), what is your reason for this - If you are saying in the case of the asian groups this abuse is through systemic teaching by society, then it must be the same for the white group, What are we teaching in white society that makes some of us go and rape babies?
I am able to loo at this through non racist eyes and quite a bit of knowledge of Muslim people. I just think it is evil men whatever their background, culture, religion, parenting etc | | | |
| When will this stop? on 02:22 - Jul 31 with 3868 views | Nigeriamark |
| When will this stop? on 08:37 - Jul 30 by R17ALE |
I see the words "tiny proportion" far too often when it comes to discussing problems within the Muslim communities in England.
The vast majority have warped minds. The ones who claim the majority are moderate are probably right, but their version of moderate is extremism to the likes of me.
I would say the majority turn a blind eye to ISIS and the majority are not repulsed when it comes to light some 14 year old girl has been gang raped above a kebab shop.
It might be a "tiny proportion" actually committing the crimes, but the majority do not feel any collective guilt.
Say if a Dale fan stabbed an opposition fan in a random act of savageness, we'd all be embarrassed and ashamed. We'd offer our apologies. We'd be humble and swear to root out the culprit. A lesson Islam should learn but won't. |
While I actually agree with some of your points below, I don't see why they apply only to asians / muslims only
How many Catholics in the Ireland troubles complained like hell when another catholic was killed, but kept quiet when it was a protestant ( and vice, versa )
How many of us get upset when we see an atrocity or serious incident involving british people overseas but feel less so i it is a group of Peruvians
How many innocents have we killed in friendly fire, and although we may not agree with it we just shrug it off? - Yet how angry are we when an American plane accidentally kills some of our troops
We all have an affinity to who we see as our own and less to those we don't really know - It isn't a Muslim thing
So the only think I fully disagree with you on is on lack of apologies by muslims when an atrocity occurs. Other than the mindless few ( which we all have), every time there is an atrocity they are usually the first to come out and condemn it as anti islam and that the perpetrators will be caught. The intelligence that the police are getting that stops terrorist attacks before they happen, - Who do you think is giving them these tip offs? In many cases I would imagine other muslims
We are all entitled to our views but every argument I have seen on this board giving reasons why some Muslims behave in certain waysS can be applied to most other races or countries | | | |
| When will this stop? on 12:03 - Jul 31 with 3800 views | D_Alien |
| When will this stop? on 02:22 - Jul 31 by Nigeriamark |
While I actually agree with some of your points below, I don't see why they apply only to asians / muslims only
How many Catholics in the Ireland troubles complained like hell when another catholic was killed, but kept quiet when it was a protestant ( and vice, versa )
How many of us get upset when we see an atrocity or serious incident involving british people overseas but feel less so i it is a group of Peruvians
How many innocents have we killed in friendly fire, and although we may not agree with it we just shrug it off? - Yet how angry are we when an American plane accidentally kills some of our troops
We all have an affinity to who we see as our own and less to those we don't really know - It isn't a Muslim thing
So the only think I fully disagree with you on is on lack of apologies by muslims when an atrocity occurs. Other than the mindless few ( which we all have), every time there is an atrocity they are usually the first to come out and condemn it as anti islam and that the perpetrators will be caught. The intelligence that the police are getting that stops terrorist attacks before they happen, - Who do you think is giving them these tip offs? In many cases I would imagine other muslims
We are all entitled to our views but every argument I have seen on this board giving reasons why some Muslims behave in certain waysS can be applied to most other races or countries |
That's all fine, and makes perfect sense until you take into account that islamic law requires a higher degree of proof in cases such as rape for women than it does for men. No need to go into the fine detail here, we can all look it up under sharia law.
So, nigeriamark, whilst you have some valid points, you're failing to take into account that females are very much regarded as second class (or even no class) citizens in the eyes of even moderate muslims. That surely has to have an effect on young muslim men as they're growing up. They can't, for instance, mix freely with young female muslims and therefore the sexual frustration leaves them open to seeing "available" young white females as easy game, and the less mature the better since maturity brings the ability to withstand their blandishments. |  |
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| When will this stop? on 05:56 - Aug 1 with 3725 views | Nigeriamark |
| When will this stop? on 12:03 - Jul 31 by D_Alien |
That's all fine, and makes perfect sense until you take into account that islamic law requires a higher degree of proof in cases such as rape for women than it does for men. No need to go into the fine detail here, we can all look it up under sharia law.
So, nigeriamark, whilst you have some valid points, you're failing to take into account that females are very much regarded as second class (or even no class) citizens in the eyes of even moderate muslims. That surely has to have an effect on young muslim men as they're growing up. They can't, for instance, mix freely with young female muslims and therefore the sexual frustration leaves them open to seeing "available" young white females as easy game, and the less mature the better since maturity brings the ability to withstand their blandishments. |
We can all say we have read Sharia and quote newspaper accounts of where it has been taken to extreme by some communities. I lived for 3 years in Indonesia which has the biggest muslim population in the world. I put my 4 year old white daughter into a school that was 80% muslim. I lived 3 years in Nigeria whichh also has a huge muslim population ( at least 50million) - and yes has some extremists in 1 area as per IRA UDA had in the 1970s. Never had problem. Believe it or not most muslims want the same as most of us in the West ) A job, education, healthcare, children, some spare cash etc). In fact most do not follow religion diligently and I am not aware of the " training to disrespect white girls" as some have posted being a key part of their upbringing
While I do not agree with some customs e.g arranged marriage, being treated as second hand citizens is hardly what I saw. The issue if anything is overprotection, which in the west we start to call lack of rights it is a fine line
Someone posted once why are muslim girls not getting groomed ? answer is because you wouldn't have a change - How many 13 year old muslim girls would you see on their own drinking alcohol and wandering around dangerous places - almost zero because of this over protection. Islam certainly has downsides in western eyes ( i agree) but it also has upsides such as extreme family and community bonding. At least they would give a Shit if their kid was out late at night drinking. Sadly to say many white girls parents don't seem to . Not saying they deserve to be taken advantage of, but having parents who could prevent them getting in danger in the first place would help | | | |
| When will this stop? on 07:24 - Aug 1 with 3716 views | R17ALE |
| When will this stop? on 05:56 - Aug 1 by Nigeriamark |
We can all say we have read Sharia and quote newspaper accounts of where it has been taken to extreme by some communities. I lived for 3 years in Indonesia which has the biggest muslim population in the world. I put my 4 year old white daughter into a school that was 80% muslim. I lived 3 years in Nigeria whichh also has a huge muslim population ( at least 50million) - and yes has some extremists in 1 area as per IRA UDA had in the 1970s. Never had problem. Believe it or not most muslims want the same as most of us in the West ) A job, education, healthcare, children, some spare cash etc). In fact most do not follow religion diligently and I am not aware of the " training to disrespect white girls" as some have posted being a key part of their upbringing
While I do not agree with some customs e.g arranged marriage, being treated as second hand citizens is hardly what I saw. The issue if anything is overprotection, which in the west we start to call lack of rights it is a fine line
Someone posted once why are muslim girls not getting groomed ? answer is because you wouldn't have a change - How many 13 year old muslim girls would you see on their own drinking alcohol and wandering around dangerous places - almost zero because of this over protection. Islam certainly has downsides in western eyes ( i agree) but it also has upsides such as extreme family and community bonding. At least they would give a Shit if their kid was out late at night drinking. Sadly to say many white girls parents don't seem to . Not saying they deserve to be taken advantage of, but having parents who could prevent them getting in danger in the first place would help |
Someone posted once why are muslim girls not getting groomed ?
Your answer is incredibly wide of the mark - like a Donnelly shot in truth!
Some Muslims prey on vulnerable white girls precisely because they are vulnerable and white. They have no regard for our laws and culture and many (especially the younger end) really don't give a shit about anything we hold dear.
Your references to the IRA are irrelevant as are the places you have lived. I'm talking Rochdale 2012ish. Not Belfast 1980, or Indonesia 2008?
"and I am not aware of the " training to disrespect white girls"
How many white girls are there in Nigeria?
I don't want to get drawn in too deeply on this, but racism is a two way street and we English have been on the receiving end of some terrible racism which gets palmed off as terrorism.
(And I totally understand that our Foreign Policies haven't helped our case.) | |
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| When will this stop? on 10:32 - Aug 1 with 3629 views | Nigeriamark |
| When will this stop? on 07:24 - Aug 1 by R17ALE |
Someone posted once why are muslim girls not getting groomed ?
Your answer is incredibly wide of the mark - like a Donnelly shot in truth!
Some Muslims prey on vulnerable white girls precisely because they are vulnerable and white. They have no regard for our laws and culture and many (especially the younger end) really don't give a shit about anything we hold dear.
Your references to the IRA are irrelevant as are the places you have lived. I'm talking Rochdale 2012ish. Not Belfast 1980, or Indonesia 2008?
"and I am not aware of the " training to disrespect white girls"
How many white girls are there in Nigeria?
I don't want to get drawn in too deeply on this, but racism is a two way street and we English have been on the receiving end of some terrible racism which gets palmed off as terrorism.
(And I totally understand that our Foreign Policies haven't helped our case.) |
I will agree t0 disagree with you based on your 3rd sentence.
You believe they are groomed because they are vulnerable and white
I believe they are groomed because they are vulnerable only ( If muslim girls were also more vulnerable I think they would also be groomed)
However we we probably don't know
Based on the original post,, and whatever you believe, there, are evil men in the UK from all walks of life and it needs sorting out
Fair enough ??? | | | |
| When will this stop? on 15:09 - Aug 1 with 3565 views | D_Alien |
| When will this stop? on 10:32 - Aug 1 by Nigeriamark |
I will agree t0 disagree with you based on your 3rd sentence.
You believe they are groomed because they are vulnerable and white
I believe they are groomed because they are vulnerable only ( If muslim girls were also more vulnerable I think they would also be groomed)
However we we probably don't know
Based on the original post,, and whatever you believe, there, are evil men in the UK from all walks of life and it needs sorting out
Fair enough ??? |
Actually, no, it's not "fair enough"
You're posting as if you have some special knowledge of these matters. You have your own experiences, that's all. Others have theirs.
And I also have mine, which comes from, for instance - muslim women who don't speak English (and haven't been allowed to learn) can't now have their own family members acting as interpreters when they attend an appointment in the NHS. Why? Because their family members (males, but it could also be compliant females) have been found to deliberately mis-interpret the healthcare professional to the patient so they've ended up having an abortion when they thought they were simply going for a routine test under anaesthetic. That's probably the worst example, but I could quote you others.
In the above instance, the patient was referred by an muslim GP - who's still practicising. In other words, the woman's family and wider community conspired against her because her husband didn't want another child. And that is a fact.
I also have my own more direct experience of the treatment of female muslims in England, which I'd prefer not to go into.
But please don't try to patronise us with this "anyone can read up on sharia law" business. Other people than yourself have experience of the suffering of female muslims in our community, which your attempts to negate with "yes, but white males do it too" is quite frankly trite and disingenuous. | |
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| When will this stop? on 16:26 - Aug 1 with 3527 views | Nigeriamark |
| When will this stop? on 15:09 - Aug 1 by D_Alien |
Actually, no, it's not "fair enough"
You're posting as if you have some special knowledge of these matters. You have your own experiences, that's all. Others have theirs.
And I also have mine, which comes from, for instance - muslim women who don't speak English (and haven't been allowed to learn) can't now have their own family members acting as interpreters when they attend an appointment in the NHS. Why? Because their family members (males, but it could also be compliant females) have been found to deliberately mis-interpret the healthcare professional to the patient so they've ended up having an abortion when they thought they were simply going for a routine test under anaesthetic. That's probably the worst example, but I could quote you others.
In the above instance, the patient was referred by an muslim GP - who's still practicising. In other words, the woman's family and wider community conspired against her because her husband didn't want another child. And that is a fact.
I also have my own more direct experience of the treatment of female muslims in England, which I'd prefer not to go into.
But please don't try to patronise us with this "anyone can read up on sharia law" business. Other people than yourself have experience of the suffering of female muslims in our community, which your attempts to negate with "yes, but white males do it too" is quite frankly trite and disingenuous. |
My "fair enough" comment alluded to my summary comment that evil men from all backgrounds need sorting out
You don't agree then Fair enough
Also your rant also seems to deflect away from the grooming issues
Are there evil muslim families who have tricked their daughters ? Yes I agree there probably are
Are there some malpractising muslim GPs who are compliment against their code - Yes probably a few ( I remember one myself from when I was a medical rep)
However even though you don't seem to like it I can also give as many examples of similar henious behaviour from every other ethnic group including whites. I am not trying to say I have any more knowledge than you or anyone else because you are correct when you say all our opinions are based on our actual experiences. It is why we have debates
The reason I feel strongly about this is that a story about a grooming game suddenly becomes a anti muslim rant by some ( not all ) whereas to me it should be a rant about all groomers/child sex offenders etc. Ultimately something is driving them all to do this and I feel it is more the individual rather than the community factors ( although these may exacerbate it in some cases)
Although it may not seem like it I have enjoyed the debate with you and others on this subject and would rather we can speak our mind than be shrinking violets ( which it seem neither of us are. I won't agree with everything you say nor you with me but I suppose that is life | | | |
| When will this stop? on 16:58 - Aug 1 with 3482 views | D_Alien |
| When will this stop? on 16:26 - Aug 1 by Nigeriamark |
My "fair enough" comment alluded to my summary comment that evil men from all backgrounds need sorting out
You don't agree then Fair enough
Also your rant also seems to deflect away from the grooming issues
Are there evil muslim families who have tricked their daughters ? Yes I agree there probably are
Are there some malpractising muslim GPs who are compliment against their code - Yes probably a few ( I remember one myself from when I was a medical rep)
However even though you don't seem to like it I can also give as many examples of similar henious behaviour from every other ethnic group including whites. I am not trying to say I have any more knowledge than you or anyone else because you are correct when you say all our opinions are based on our actual experiences. It is why we have debates
The reason I feel strongly about this is that a story about a grooming game suddenly becomes a anti muslim rant by some ( not all ) whereas to me it should be a rant about all groomers/child sex offenders etc. Ultimately something is driving them all to do this and I feel it is more the individual rather than the community factors ( although these may exacerbate it in some cases)
Although it may not seem like it I have enjoyed the debate with you and others on this subject and would rather we can speak our mind than be shrinking violets ( which it seem neither of us are. I won't agree with everything you say nor you with me but I suppose that is life |
I'm afraid your use of the word "rant" to describe other people's posts puts anything you have to say into the bin.
Your opinions are trite to me, because it's obvious to anyone with any perception whatsoever that ill-treatment of women isn't confined to one race, culture or religion. That does nothing to add to the debate on how or why the specific muslim treatment of females affects the behaviour of muslim males.
Edit: And quite frankly, your claim that islam seeks to "protect" women is laughable. I've posted elsewhere that it's only weak men who seek to subjugate women, but the last thing they need is apologists from other cultures who value their womenfolk as equals, even if not all members of the culture are strong enough to understand that.
[Post edited 1 Aug 2015 17:04]
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| When will this stop? on 17:13 - Aug 1 with 3451 views | R17ALE |
| When will this stop? on 16:26 - Aug 1 by Nigeriamark |
My "fair enough" comment alluded to my summary comment that evil men from all backgrounds need sorting out
You don't agree then Fair enough
Also your rant also seems to deflect away from the grooming issues
Are there evil muslim families who have tricked their daughters ? Yes I agree there probably are
Are there some malpractising muslim GPs who are compliment against their code - Yes probably a few ( I remember one myself from when I was a medical rep)
However even though you don't seem to like it I can also give as many examples of similar henious behaviour from every other ethnic group including whites. I am not trying to say I have any more knowledge than you or anyone else because you are correct when you say all our opinions are based on our actual experiences. It is why we have debates
The reason I feel strongly about this is that a story about a grooming game suddenly becomes a anti muslim rant by some ( not all ) whereas to me it should be a rant about all groomers/child sex offenders etc. Ultimately something is driving them all to do this and I feel it is more the individual rather than the community factors ( although these may exacerbate it in some cases)
Although it may not seem like it I have enjoyed the debate with you and others on this subject and would rather we can speak our mind than be shrinking violets ( which it seem neither of us are. I won't agree with everything you say nor you with me but I suppose that is life |
Even though the debate is reasonable, and in general I think we're all in agreement to a point that child abuse and terrorism are vile, it is inescapable that some of the worst cases carried out on our island are done by Muslims who don't give a shit about our culture.
You live in a Muslim country so won't see the clash of culture that exists over here. And it's got a lot worse in the 20 years you've been exiled. I'm not going to list examples of which there are many, but to suggest English parents leave their daughters at greater risk of grooming by letting them out at night is probably true, but should a 14 year old girl going out with a friend to the pictures and having a crafty cider in town come with the risk of being groomed by an Asian? It's not right to lock up your kids to prevent this risk.
And yes there's good and bad in every walk of life, of course there is, but some Muslims view our girls as white trash and fair game, whereas their own daughters, I expect, are pardoned from being subjected to this exploitation. This isn't a rant, it's the cold, hard truth and to shy away from confronting it is exactly what the overwhelming majority of British Muslims do with ISIS and it's simply not right! | |
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| When will this stop? on 19:19 - Aug 1 with 3374 views | Nigeriamark |
| When will this stop? on 17:13 - Aug 1 by R17ALE |
Even though the debate is reasonable, and in general I think we're all in agreement to a point that child abuse and terrorism are vile, it is inescapable that some of the worst cases carried out on our island are done by Muslims who don't give a shit about our culture.
You live in a Muslim country so won't see the clash of culture that exists over here. And it's got a lot worse in the 20 years you've been exiled. I'm not going to list examples of which there are many, but to suggest English parents leave their daughters at greater risk of grooming by letting them out at night is probably true, but should a 14 year old girl going out with a friend to the pictures and having a crafty cider in town come with the risk of being groomed by an Asian? It's not right to lock up your kids to prevent this risk.
And yes there's good and bad in every walk of life, of course there is, but some Muslims view our girls as white trash and fair game, whereas their own daughters, I expect, are pardoned from being subjected to this exploitation. This isn't a rant, it's the cold, hard truth and to shy away from confronting it is exactly what the overwhelming majority of British Muslims do with ISIS and it's simply not right! |
Hi R17ALE - Nice to see another poster breaking us up!!
As I rea your mail you will be perhaps surprised that I think you are bang on with many of your points, the reason being that you tone your sentences down by using the word "some". There is certainly a Rochdale angle to this because one of the worse gangs in the UK were Muslim and operated in Rochdale so I would even be worried about my own daughter ( more so than in Indonesia where she would be in very little danger). If you go beyond the Rochdale news and look at other gangs you will see in some areas child sex abusers were not asian, so they would have a different perspective
Your last sentence where you use Majority of British muslims and not confronting ISIS is probably where we will have to differ. The main victims of ISIS in terms of numbers are other muslims, especially of a certain branch of islam. I confess I do not know which branch of Islam most asians in Rochdale support but I would be surprised if most UK muslims support ISIS because their own will be getting murdered as well - However yes 'some" muslims probably do support at least the aims of ISIS and those that also agree with their actions it must be stamped out in the UK ( But not easy). It seems that the UK forces claim they have stopped many acts of terrorism. It worries me that we have muslims trying to carry out acts, but it also makes me feel the intelligence is also forthcoming from decent members of the asian community
My final comment on this subject is that a number of us have given our honest opinions. Non of us can say exactly who is right or wrong or to what degree. I think it would be worth investment in obtaining real data on the topics discussed ,both child abuse and extremism ( prevalence, root cause, by various group e.g ethnic, social status, religion etc to see if there are actually any differences and why). I will be the first to hold my hand up if statistics prove my opinions are w%nk. However until then I hold my original views as indeed will everyone else
At least we can focus on the Dale from next week - Enjoy the season | | | |
| When will this stop? on 21:11 - Aug 1 with 3310 views | D_Alien |
| When will this stop? on 19:19 - Aug 1 by Nigeriamark |
Hi R17ALE - Nice to see another poster breaking us up!!
As I rea your mail you will be perhaps surprised that I think you are bang on with many of your points, the reason being that you tone your sentences down by using the word "some". There is certainly a Rochdale angle to this because one of the worse gangs in the UK were Muslim and operated in Rochdale so I would even be worried about my own daughter ( more so than in Indonesia where she would be in very little danger). If you go beyond the Rochdale news and look at other gangs you will see in some areas child sex abusers were not asian, so they would have a different perspective
Your last sentence where you use Majority of British muslims and not confronting ISIS is probably where we will have to differ. The main victims of ISIS in terms of numbers are other muslims, especially of a certain branch of islam. I confess I do not know which branch of Islam most asians in Rochdale support but I would be surprised if most UK muslims support ISIS because their own will be getting murdered as well - However yes 'some" muslims probably do support at least the aims of ISIS and those that also agree with their actions it must be stamped out in the UK ( But not easy). It seems that the UK forces claim they have stopped many acts of terrorism. It worries me that we have muslims trying to carry out acts, but it also makes me feel the intelligence is also forthcoming from decent members of the asian community
My final comment on this subject is that a number of us have given our honest opinions. Non of us can say exactly who is right or wrong or to what degree. I think it would be worth investment in obtaining real data on the topics discussed ,both child abuse and extremism ( prevalence, root cause, by various group e.g ethnic, social status, religion etc to see if there are actually any differences and why). I will be the first to hold my hand up if statistics prove my opinions are w%nk. However until then I hold my original views as indeed will everyone else
At least we can focus on the Dale from next week - Enjoy the season |
"Hi R17ALE - Nice to see another poster breaking us up!! "
Risible. This is an open forum, and for you to be resorting to "I'm talking to R17ALE" demonstrates only that you're unable to find any answer to the points I've made. Which doesn't surprise me, because there aren't any.
I feel you've somehow "gone native" and decided that the treatment of women by the followers of islam is something that can be justified. And whilst the start of thefootball season is welcome, it's meaningless to the millions of women living in fear, in pain and those who resort to self-immolation as an alternative to the life islam imposes on them. | |
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| When will this stop? on 21:22 - Aug 1 with 3283 views | 49thseason |
Some statistics from opinion polls over the last 10 years - all stats taken from polling undertaken by recognised polling companies such as NOP , ICM, Pew Global, Populus etc. :
2005
About 1 in 5 Muslim students in Britain (18%) would not report a fellow Muslim planning a terror attack.
2006
12% of young Muslims in Britain (and 12% overall) believe that suicide attacks against civilians in Britain can be justified. 1 in 4 support suicide attacks against British troops.
16% of British Muslims believe suicide attacks against Israelis are justified.
37% believe Jews in Britain are a "legitimate target".
2007
26% of younger Muslims in America believe suicide bombings are justified.
35% of young Muslims in Britain believe suicide bombings are justified (24% overall).
42% of young Muslims in France believe suicide bombings are justified (35% overall).
22% of young Muslims in Germany believe suicide bombings are justified.(13% overall).
29% of young Muslims in Spain believe suicide bombings are justified.(25% overall).
Muslim-Americans who identify more strongly with their religion are three times more likely to feel that suicide bombings are justified
5% of Muslims in Britain tell pollsters they would not report a planned Islamic terror attack to authorities.
27% do not support the deportation of Islamic extremists preaching violence and hate.
2010
55% of Jordanians have a positive view of Hezbollah
30% of Egyptians have a positive view of Hezbollah
45% of Nigerian Muslims have a positive view of Hezbollah (26% negative)
43% of Indonesians have a positive view of Hezbollah (30% negative)
2011
World Public Opinion:
61% of Egyptians approve of attacks on Americans
32% of Indonesians approve of attacks on Americans
41% of Pakistanis approve of attacks on Americans
38% of Moroccans approve of attacks on Americans
83% of Palestinians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (only 14% oppose)
62% of Jordanians approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (21% oppose)
42% of Turks approve of some or most groups that attack Americans (45% oppose)
A minority of Muslims disagreed entirely with terror attacks on Americans:
(Egypt 34%; Indonesia 45%; Pakistan 33%)
About half of those opposed to attacking Americans were sympathetic with al-Qaeda’s attitude toward the U.S.
2013
16% of young Muslims in Belgium state terrorism is "acceptable"
Only 57% of Muslims worldwide disapprove of al-Qaeda. Only 51% disapprove of the Taliban. 13% support both groups and 1 in 4 refuse to say.
2014
47% of Bangladeshi Muslims says suicide bombings and violence are justified to "defend Islam". 1 in 4 believed the same in Tanzania and Egypt.
2015
19% of Muslim-Americans say that violence is justified in order to make Sharia the law in the United States (66% disagree).
45% of British Muslims agree that clerics preaching violence against the West represent "mainstream Islam".
25% of Muslim-Americans say that violence against Americans in the United States is justified as part of the "global Jihad (64% disagree)
The overwhelming tone of this research is that Muslim attitudes in support of extremism are hardening and that younger Muslims are proving to be more hardline in their views than their elders, a worrying trend which is replicated internationally even in Muslim countries.
My personal view is that by allowing large Muslim "communities" (and I hate the way they have colonised that word) to develop without thought about its long term effects on integration has been a disaster. Sensible integration cannot work if the influx of new people into the UK runs faster than the ability of the host population to absorb them. It is unacceptable that successive governments have either decided the problem is too hard to fix or have actively encouraged immigration as a party politics recruitment gambit.
I fear for future generations when eventually "something will have to be done". The best that can happen in the meantime is to close the borders, suspend all but absolutely essential immigration and concentrate more effort into ensuring immigrants that are here legally have a stake in the success of the UK democracy and its Judeo-Christian ethics.
This will require Government intervention to rein in the wilder excesses of the Islamic faith with particular regard to hate preachers and Madrassas which seem to have more profound effect on young Muslim minds than the 13 or 14 years of the UK school system.These places are entirely male and largely responsible for young Muslim men's belief systems with regard to Jihad, Sharia Law and attitudes towards women.Even in Pakistan, there has been a perceived need to try and control what Madrassas are teaching and who is doing the teaching, we have no such laws in the UK. |  | | |
| When will this stop? on 21:26 - Aug 1 with 3277 views | Nigeriamark |
| When will this stop? on 21:11 - Aug 1 by D_Alien |
"Hi R17ALE - Nice to see another poster breaking us up!! "
Risible. This is an open forum, and for you to be resorting to "I'm talking to R17ALE" demonstrates only that you're unable to find any answer to the points I've made. Which doesn't surprise me, because there aren't any.
I feel you've somehow "gone native" and decided that the treatment of women by the followers of islam is something that can be justified. And whilst the start of thefootball season is welcome, it's meaningless to the millions of women living in fear, in pain and those who resort to self-immolation as an alternative to the life islam imposes on them. |
Interesting comment
Perhaps look at one of your earlier posts to me, The one with the paragraph "so Nigeria Mark ......."
Double standards ?
Off course it's an open forum, otherwise I would have sent a private message. I didn't ask everyone else not to read it
Also in terms of treatment of women in Islam, like every other woman, if they are treated well it is justified, if they are treated badly it isn't. Same with the treatment of men to be honest | | | |
| When will this stop? on 21:34 - Aug 1 with 3259 views | D_Alien |
| When will this stop? on 21:26 - Aug 1 by Nigeriamark |
Interesting comment
Perhaps look at one of your earlier posts to me, The one with the paragraph "so Nigeria Mark ......."
Double standards ?
Off course it's an open forum, otherwise I would have sent a private message. I didn't ask everyone else not to read it
Also in terms of treatment of women in Islam, like every other woman, if they are treated well it is justified, if they are treated badly it isn't. Same with the treatment of men to be honest |
Taken from an article in the Sunday Times, 12 July 2015. This is the UK.
So, nigeriamark, keep having your say. And weep at the irrelevance of trying to score points in the face of what's happening in our towns and cities.
"I am Amina. My English is not so good. They want my six year old daughter wear the hijab. Where it says in Qu'ran that a child must do this? When I say no, they beat me, every day. I cannot divorce because I have no job."
Ms Alibhai-Brown thinks that the government estimate of 8,000 women in Britain forced into marriage each year - and that would be shocking enough - is an underestimate:
"More females than ever are being coerced into marriages. Two threats usually get results. Either the mum threatens suicide or the daughter is warned she will be killed. If the victims flee bounty hunters -gangs paid by families - find them, beat them, and throw them back into their families."
In some cases the groom is also a victim of such an arrangement and may have been coerced into the marriage - for example he may be in love with someone else who he does not want to tell his family about, or he may be gay.
Then there are those who are punished for wanting to follow an unapproved career choice:
"Sukhi, 17, always wanted to be a dancer. She joined a dance class in her local area. Her British-Sikh parents were so angry when she told them, they broke one of her legs with a hockey stick.
' You won't believe a mother can do this to her child, but mine did.'
Her leg was broken in so many places, she can never dance again.
Then there is the situation of brides who are beaten because their husband or his family is disappointed at the size of their dowries.
I have always believed that in a free country those women or near-adult girls who genuinely want to wear a veil or other covering should be allowed to do so in those circumstances where they are not doing any harm to anyone else (obviously not when there are security issues or it would interfere with their job). I recall for instance a letter to the papers from a doctor who wears the hijab from her home to the hospital where she works, changes into normal clinical uniform to do her job (wearing no face coverings other than medical masks in the operating theatre as appropriate) and then puts the hijab on to go home. A civilised society should easily be able to cope with that sort of reasonable accommodation. But some of the stories in the "Dear Auntie Yasmin" article highlight the problem that some women may be being forced to wear the veil, which is intolerable.
"A few years back, a fully veiled woman recognised me and followed me home. She threw off her burkha. She was covered in bruises, bite marks, cigarette burns. A chemistry graduate from a northern town, she was beaten up by her father and brother for speaking to a man at a bus stop. 'You see? We are hidden so nobody sees our wounds.'"
Edit: and yes, I know one of the examples concerns Sikhs, not muslims.
[Post edited 1 Aug 2015 21:40]
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| When will this stop? on 21:34 - Aug 1 with 3254 views | R17ALE |
| When will this stop? on 21:11 - Aug 1 by D_Alien |
"Hi R17ALE - Nice to see another poster breaking us up!! "
Risible. This is an open forum, and for you to be resorting to "I'm talking to R17ALE" demonstrates only that you're unable to find any answer to the points I've made. Which doesn't surprise me, because there aren't any.
I feel you've somehow "gone native" and decided that the treatment of women by the followers of islam is something that can be justified. And whilst the start of thefootball season is welcome, it's meaningless to the millions of women living in fear, in pain and those who resort to self-immolation as an alternative to the life islam imposes on them. |
Mark is an alright bloke D_Alien to be fair, but he is ham-strung by not seeing what the likes of me and you see on a daily basis in Rochdale, which makes his earlier "tiny proportion" remark to him seem correct, but it is a red rag to a bull comment to those of us who live here.
Recently I've been working in Rochdale, and driving around really opens your eyes. Most/many people do not appear to be loyal British subjects. Most/many of them will be perfectly decent folk, but some will be proper wrong'uns.
My only Muslim mate in Rochdale has suffered tremendously at the hands of his 'brothers'. He actually used to watch Dale until he was hounded out of it by the elders. His sister was beaten up because she was too pale. And he is forbidden to try and find a true love here as he is the first born male and therefore has to enter an arranged marriage. It's a cruel life and we Brits take our freedom for granted. Whenever I see him in Asda I always catch up with him, usually whilst waiting to be served after someone has jumped the queue!
And yet this is what some call moderate!
It's bloody barbaric in my view! [Post edited 1 Aug 2015 21:46]
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