| Fans Parliament 17:29 - May 21 with 101255 views | TwelveAngryMen |
Are we looking at the start a Tangerine Spring ?
Or is it an attempt to curb the growing influence of fans groups ?
Applications appear on first read of the announcement to be subject to vetting by the Club
The statement seems to infer that anyone who doesn't renew their ST is unlikely to be considered so that's anyone taking a principled NAPM stance this season to the back of the queue ! That will undoubtedly influence the dynamics of representation
Who elects the Board Rep ? I suspect its within the cabal of hand-picked representatives in which case hardly democratic - more like a Fans Cabinet
Which Club officials will they meet ? It does say to be fair to include Club directors so in reality that's suggesting it will involve Karl or Owen
It will be interesting to see how this pans out
http://www.blackpoolfc.co.uk/news/article/club-announces-launch-of-fans-parliame [Post edited 21 May 2015 17:35]
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| Fans Parliament on 15:42 - May 28 with 2983 views | Rusty2Stands |
| Fans Parliament on 15:28 - May 28 by Lala |
BFC if I'm totally honest with you I think you over estimate the kind of reaction anybody who signs up to this parliament may expect,seriously.
They may get shite on a message board,but the likelihood is,most of the 12 won't even post on here,or the other site.
If they can make a difference then good luck to them I say,after all a difference is what we want isn't it.
And yes,I am prepared to accept any consequences attached to holding,and shock horror,voicing a different viewpoint bfc,bring it on! [Post edited 28 May 2015 15:33]
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Lala, I'm certainly not going to start throwing abuse at anyone who signs up for this fans parliament. Least of all the likes of Wiz, who is a died in the wool long standing fan. And recently quite an outspoken critic of the Oystons, not just on internet forums, but in the more public domain of the Gazette.
It's just my opinion that they are making the wrong choice.
I genuinely think the cracks are starting to show in the so called rhino skin. Sitting round a table with fans just gives KO breathing space.
I think we should be totally cutting off the Oystons, cutting off the money supply, and not giving them any publicity or anything to hide behind.
We have a difference of opinion that's all it is.
At the end of the day I'm sure we all want what is best for our football club.
We just have different views of how we can achieve that |  | | |
| Fans Parliament on 16:00 - May 28 with 2965 views | BFCx3 |
There's a whole raft of reasons why people may not have Season Tickets and so to exclude carte blanche on that basis is ridiculous. You also can't just have a free for all either, bit of someone is committed, can demonstrate their BFC supporter credentials, then I see no reason for them to be excluded.
Anyone who sees holding a ST as a determination of superiority or even commitment has personal ego related issues they need to come to terms with themselves before judging those who do not.
ST's offer benefits to the Club and they offer benefits to the supporter. I can understand why those benefits might extend to preferential treatment in regard to match tickets, but as a means by which to determine democratic process??? Sorry I'm not having that at all...in one foul swoop you instantly exclude those objecting over concerns with the ownership.
Do we want a parliament of Yes Men? | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 16:27 - May 28 with 2949 views | TwelveAngryMen |
I think one of the main seasons not to limit eligibility to ST's ( over and above the ones mentioned ) is so not to exclude the NAPM brigade of which there are a growing number
I know plenty of passionate fans ( inc many who travel to a majority of away games ) who have surrendered their STs on principle
At the end of the day if there were an election anyone who couldn't demonstrate their credentials wouldn't have a realistic chance of garnishing support would they | |
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| Fans Parliament on 16:31 - May 28 with 2940 views | Lala |
| Fans Parliament on 16:00 - May 28 by BFCx3 |
There's a whole raft of reasons why people may not have Season Tickets and so to exclude carte blanche on that basis is ridiculous. You also can't just have a free for all either, bit of someone is committed, can demonstrate their BFC supporter credentials, then I see no reason for them to be excluded.
Anyone who sees holding a ST as a determination of superiority or even commitment has personal ego related issues they need to come to terms with themselves before judging those who do not.
ST's offer benefits to the Club and they offer benefits to the supporter. I can understand why those benefits might extend to preferential treatment in regard to match tickets, but as a means by which to determine democratic process??? Sorry I'm not having that at all...in one foul swoop you instantly exclude those objecting over concerns with the ownership.
Do we want a parliament of Yes Men? |
BFC do you really think anyone with a season ticket feels superior because of it,I don't personally,and I see far bigger ego's being created via other means right now.
What we feel about the selection of the parliament won't change the basis of selection. But,if it means we do get 12 balanced individuals to speak up for the fans then good.
Earlier in the thread Tam has stated that,conditions attached, he would apply. That implies that on one level,he is willing to join this parliament,so again,a well balanced individual with BFC at his core,does,on some level,support this notion.
It's not all bad,just because you and I can't control the selection. [Post edited 28 May 2015 16:33]
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| Fans Parliament on 16:40 - May 28 with 2925 views | TwelveAngryMen |
I would Lala but only if the 6 conditions were accepted AND the threat to sue fans from encroaching on the pitch were lifted
Those 6 conditions would take selection out of the owners hands
Whilst selection remains as stated in the Club statement the process is fundamentally flawed and I and many others will not participate and no one who stands can possibly claim to represent the fanbase | |
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| Fans Parliament on 16:46 - May 28 with 2921 views | Lala |
| Fans Parliament on 16:40 - May 28 by TwelveAngryMen |
I would Lala but only if the 6 conditions were accepted AND the threat to sue fans from encroaching on the pitch were lifted
Those 6 conditions would take selection out of the owners hands
Whilst selection remains as stated in the Club statement the process is fundamentally flawed and I and many others will not participate and no one who stands can possibly claim to represent the fanbase |
Fair enough TAM,but at least you are saying that on some level,you would have dialogue with the O's again,this goes against what many think is acceptable now.
The selection process can't be dictated to by us,the O's had no say in the selection of BST reps did they,and rightly so. This is their vision of opening up dialogue, we accept it or reject it. I choose to accept,for the sake of the club's future.
I'm trying to view this as a lay person,it's the only way I think,or there will never ever be constructive progress. | |
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| Fans Parliament on 16:51 - May 28 with 2913 views | TwelveAngryMen |
That's where we differ
Dialogue on the owners terms isn't a level playing field and IMO should not be encouraged Only my view
As long as anyone doesn't seek to represent anyone other than themselves in there good luck to them | |
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| Fans Parliament on 16:56 - May 28 with 2902 views | Lala |
| Fans Parliament on 16:51 - May 28 by TwelveAngryMen |
That's where we differ
Dialogue on the owners terms isn't a level playing field and IMO should not be encouraged Only my view
As long as anyone doesn't seek to represent anyone other than themselves in there good luck to them |
You can't say that TAM and that's what comes over as arrogant to me now.I allow them to represent me,and other fans will have the same viewpoint as me. Yes,you can say they aren't representing you,and you maybe in the majority,but you can't decide whether or not they can speak for others. They can represent me. [Post edited 28 May 2015 16:57]
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| Fans Parliament on 16:58 - May 28 with 2891 views | TwelveAngryMen |
It's not arrogance They have no mandate from anyone other than themselves and anyone who gives them their proxy
Anyone who applies who claims to represent anyone else is deluding themselves | |
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| Fans Parliament on 16:59 - May 28 with 2889 views | straightatthewall |
| Fans Parliament on 16:00 - May 28 by BFCx3 |
There's a whole raft of reasons why people may not have Season Tickets and so to exclude carte blanche on that basis is ridiculous. You also can't just have a free for all either, bit of someone is committed, can demonstrate their BFC supporter credentials, then I see no reason for them to be excluded.
Anyone who sees holding a ST as a determination of superiority or even commitment has personal ego related issues they need to come to terms with themselves before judging those who do not.
ST's offer benefits to the Club and they offer benefits to the supporter. I can understand why those benefits might extend to preferential treatment in regard to match tickets, but as a means by which to determine democratic process??? Sorry I'm not having that at all...in one foul swoop you instantly exclude those objecting over concerns with the ownership.
Do we want a parliament of Yes Men? |
Yes |  |
| We got Bogdanovic, Oyston got very rich |
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| Fans Parliament on 17:02 - May 28 with 2880 views | Lala |
I give them a mandate from me. If asked others will too. You may have a mandate of 1500 in BST, but you don't actually speak for the majority of fans either. Yet you seem to be dictating to all of us. That's how it's coming across now. | |
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| Fans Parliament on 17:09 - May 28 with 2869 views | TwelveAngryMen |
I don't have anyone's mandate
I don't represent BST anymore and don't ever purport to do so
I would add however that if BST ever make representations ( be that to the Club or to other fans group ) its only on behalf of their members not the wider fanbase
Those members are polled on policy regularly - even votes in meetings go out to the wider membership if its a major decision - the most recent example being the ethical boycott
That's how democracy works
You keep kidding yourself if you want but what I said in my last post is irrefutably the case
Have all the dialogue you want but don't pretend a selected 12 have any mandate They don't | |
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| Fans Parliament on 17:11 - May 28 with 2867 views | BiggieSeasider |
| Fans Parliament on 17:02 - May 28 by Lala |
I give them a mandate from me. If asked others will too. You may have a mandate of 1500 in BST, but you don't actually speak for the majority of fans either. Yet you seem to be dictating to all of us. That's how it's coming across now. |
Lala, I don't think he sounds like he's dictating to all of us. But you're wrong if you think BST represent just 1500 fans. I've paid my BST sub. I'm happy with the way they are handling things. I have several friends who aren't paid up members of BST. They feel the same way too. I think if you did a completely open poll of all Blackpool fans, the majority would be behind BST. | |
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| Fans Parliament on 17:13 - May 28 with 2859 views | Lala |
| Fans Parliament on 17:11 - May 28 by BiggieSeasider |
Lala, I don't think he sounds like he's dictating to all of us. But you're wrong if you think BST represent just 1500 fans. I've paid my BST sub. I'm happy with the way they are handling things. I have several friends who aren't paid up members of BST. They feel the same way too. I think if you did a completely open poll of all Blackpool fans, the majority would be behind BST. |
They will have the support of me and others TAM,that's not kidding myself it's a fact. I am a Blackpool fan just like you,and I decide who speaks for me,it's really that simple.
Biggie,1500 is a figure quoted on here somewhere in the past couple of days by TAM or BFC3, not sure which one,so take that up with them. [Post edited 28 May 2015 17:15]
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| Fans Parliament on 17:16 - May 28 with 2851 views | TwelveAngryMen |
That's fine - I conceded that point above when I said they would be representing themselves and anyone who gave them a proxy
How many of those are they going to collect ? [Post edited 28 May 2015 17:19]
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| Fans Parliament on 17:17 - May 28 with 2850 views | BiggieSeasider |
| Fans Parliament on 17:09 - May 28 by TwelveAngryMen |
I don't have anyone's mandate
I don't represent BST anymore and don't ever purport to do so
I would add however that if BST ever make representations ( be that to the Club or to other fans group ) its only on behalf of their members not the wider fanbase
Those members are polled on policy regularly - even votes in meetings go out to the wider membership if its a major decision - the most recent example being the ethical boycott
That's how democracy works
You keep kidding yourself if you want but what I said in my last post is irrefutably the case
Have all the dialogue you want but don't pretend a selected 12 have any mandate They don't |
Anyone who thinks this Parliament will accomplish anything is kidding themselves. Sure, there will be a meeting. The club will even generously act on a few of the suggestions. But it's all going to be stuff that is openly acknowledged as being a problem (as long as it doesn't cost much to sort out). So it will present the illusion of club working hand in hand with supporters.
And there is the problem. This club is going down the toilet. There are obvious things that the club know are wrong and they could be sorted right now. Why aren't they? So the club has some ground to give when the parliament meets. They probably already know what they will agree to. So it's been decided. Without need for a parliament meeting.
This all sounds like meetings gone by. People meet with Karl. Karl says how it's going to be. We all keep quiet with a breadcrumb that plans are in place and they'll start working on the training ground my 2050. The reason some people are getting angry, and maybe a little bit too aggressive is because all of this is obvious. Hell the fact they can sort things now but choose not to is making me angry as I type. | |
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| Fans Parliament on 17:19 - May 28 with 2845 views | BiggieSeasider |
| Fans Parliament on 17:13 - May 28 by Lala |
They will have the support of me and others TAM,that's not kidding myself it's a fact. I am a Blackpool fan just like you,and I decide who speaks for me,it's really that simple.
Biggie,1500 is a figure quoted on here somewhere in the past couple of days by TAM or BFC3, not sure which one,so take that up with them. [Post edited 28 May 2015 17:15]
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Lala, I don't dispute the number. I just don't think you can say that that's all BST represent. I think most normal Blackpool supporters agree with their stance. Put it this way, outside this forum, I haven't spoken to anyone who doesn't back them. [Post edited 28 May 2015 17:19]
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| Fans Parliament on 17:21 - May 28 with 2839 views | Lala |
| Fans Parliament on 17:17 - May 28 by BiggieSeasider |
Anyone who thinks this Parliament will accomplish anything is kidding themselves. Sure, there will be a meeting. The club will even generously act on a few of the suggestions. But it's all going to be stuff that is openly acknowledged as being a problem (as long as it doesn't cost much to sort out). So it will present the illusion of club working hand in hand with supporters.
And there is the problem. This club is going down the toilet. There are obvious things that the club know are wrong and they could be sorted right now. Why aren't they? So the club has some ground to give when the parliament meets. They probably already know what they will agree to. So it's been decided. Without need for a parliament meeting.
This all sounds like meetings gone by. People meet with Karl. Karl says how it's going to be. We all keep quiet with a breadcrumb that plans are in place and they'll start working on the training ground my 2050. The reason some people are getting angry, and maybe a little bit too aggressive is because all of this is obvious. Hell the fact they can sort things now but choose not to is making me angry as I type. |
It doesn't really matter how many proxies they collect does it. Neither you or I know,away from these forums,how much support the parliament will have. Fact is,if and when it exists I hope it manages to succeed in it's remit,and am happy to be represented by any well meaning fan. | |
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| Fans Parliament on 17:22 - May 28 with 2832 views | TwelveAngryMen |
I don't think we will ever agree
Good debater though  | |
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| Fans Parliament on 17:26 - May 28 with 2822 views | Lala |
| Fans Parliament on 17:22 - May 28 by TwelveAngryMen |
I don't think we will ever agree
Good debater though |
You're not so bad yourself,if only all posters could manage it without abuse and grudges  | |
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| Fans Parliament on 17:45 - May 28 with 2801 views | BFCx3 |
| Fans Parliament on 16:46 - May 28 by Lala |
Fair enough TAM,but at least you are saying that on some level,you would have dialogue with the O's again,this goes against what many think is acceptable now.
The selection process can't be dictated to by us,the O's had no say in the selection of BST reps did they,and rightly so. This is their vision of opening up dialogue, we accept it or reject it. I choose to accept,for the sake of the club's future.
I'm trying to view this as a lay person,it's the only way I think,or there will never ever be constructive progress. |
I don't like or agree with "The Company" dictating the terms for fans representatives at all and I think they should basically butt out in many ways.
For me the FANS representatives ought to be fully determined by the fans....End of! | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 18:31 - May 28 with 2760 views | halifax71 |
| Fans Parliament on 17:21 - May 28 by Lala |
It doesn't really matter how many proxies they collect does it. Neither you or I know,away from these forums,how much support the parliament will have. Fact is,if and when it exists I hope it manages to succeed in it's remit,and am happy to be represented by any well meaning fan. |
Good debate, I'm just quite staggered that anyone would admit to allowing someone to represent them when they are chosen by our disgrace of a chairman.
Bizarre. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 18:51 - May 28 with 2742 views | terminallytangerine |
| Fans Parliament on 17:45 - May 28 by BFCx3 |
I don't like or agree with "The Company" dictating the terms for fans representatives at all and I think they should basically butt out in many ways.
For me the FANS representatives ought to be fully determined by the fans....End of! |
We are talking first steps.
Two points:
Nobody wants a 'parliament' of yes men or women; nor is it likely they would get one.
Nobody I know thinks season ticket holders are superior, but for views to carry weight both with the owners and more importantly those who have shown hope (rather than faith or expectation) in a better future by buying season tickets, I think inviting NAPM at this stage would be counterproductive. (To answer the above question.)
Nothing against principled individuals who see the world differently but first steps mean we have to start with people who want to argue a case from a standpoint of strength.
As Lala said if this gets off the ground we need to trust whoever is asked to stand - at least until we have given it a chance.
Ideally someone like Christine Seddon would apply and be selected but if the leaders of BST feel they can't, because conditions have not been met, there will be others who I'm sure will want to find answers and effect change, and I'm happy for them to represent me if the alternative is just more of the same. [Post edited 28 May 2015 18:57]
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| Fans Parliament on 18:54 - May 28 with 2738 views | Rusty2Stands |
| Fans Parliament on 18:31 - May 28 by halifax71 |
Good debate, I'm just quite staggered that anyone would admit to allowing someone to represent them when they are chosen by our disgrace of a chairman.
Bizarre. |
Me too halifax. That's why this fans parliament (Koko's human shield) will never be accepted by the vast majority of fans.
It will have next to no credibility if the members are chosen by the buffoon. About on a par with FIFA for credibility I would say.
It will be a dead duck before it's even started.
Fans representatives should be chosen by the fans. End of.
Anyway, if it gets off the ground lets see what it achieves. The proof of the pudding is in the eating as the saying goes.
Let's revisit this after it's been going for say 12 months, and see what ground breaking progress has been made. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 19:03 - May 28 with 2729 views | BFCx3 |
| Fans Parliament on 18:31 - May 28 by halifax71 |
Good debate, I'm just quite staggered that anyone would admit to allowing someone to represent them when they are chosen by our disgrace of a chairman.
Bizarre. |
It's totally bizarre Halifax!!
The clue ought to be in the name "Fans Parliament"... If it is to have any remote credibility at all then the representatives should not even be applying to the club, but rather the whole thing should be essentially managed by the fans themselves. The sensible thing to do would be to hand to an independent fans body and we have a perfectly good one, who can then oversee the process and ensure that a proper democratic process takes place, instead of the usual Oyston controlled Shiite.
This is precisely where we ended up with BSA ...A fans representative, who are essentially 'controlled' by the club chairman.
How can these people represent US if we have no say in determining who they are? They are Club representatives if Karl picks them or has any influence over who they are ....simple as that.
Yes there must be sensible parameters to ensure the whole thing is not a total farce, but it is a pointless exercise if Karl is not prepared to allow the fans the freedom to select their own reps without his interference.
Totally pointless (and that is before we even come to the matter of whether any power will be conceded) | | | |
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