| A Pipe Dream... 23:29 - Feb 20 with 10193 views | Phil_S |
Or is it - it happened at Portsmouth on a smaller scale and dream big as you never know what could happen.
At a valuation of £100m, the 4% of shares that would make a massive difference to us is worth £4m. We have £650k in the bank with another possible dividend this year taking that to £850k (if it happens)
Are we capable through fan donations (and those from local businesses) capable of raising £3.2m to make a substantial offer for those shares? Should we try? |  | | |  |
| A Pipe Dream... on 00:40 - Feb 21 with 1829 views | Jackerwocey |
| A Pipe Dream... on 00:34 - Feb 21 by AndyNak |
I think this was answered but... Partly because the rate offered wasn't at what they considered the market rate... And more importantly as many have identified, because the overall impact of the trust getting to 25% would leave them out of pocket
If we could broker a deal that compensated for that, combined with the public pressure then there may be a chance. We would need that agreement in principle before the fundraising started though - as you rightly pointed out it wouldn't be great to raise the money and not have the option to purchase the 4% |
Still confused are they not obliged to offer to us first?
If so if we can meet the price no problem and tough about the effect on their other shares
As they know this is business
Compensate be damned, stop any sale till they sell to us at a reasonable price the 3.7% we need. |  | | |
| A Pipe Dream... on 00:40 - Feb 21 with 1829 views | londonlisa2001 |
| A Pipe Dream... on 00:34 - Feb 21 by AndyNak |
I think this was answered but... Partly because the rate offered wasn't at what they considered the market rate... And more importantly as many have identified, because the overall impact of the trust getting to 25% would leave them out of pocket
If we could broker a deal that compensated for that, combined with the public pressure then there may be a chance. We would need that agreement in principle before the fundraising started though - as you rightly pointed out it wouldn't be great to raise the money and not have the option to purchase the 4% |
I understand the 2 points re less money and the devaluation for their total holding for the Trust getting to 25% - I'm just pointing out that any romantic notion of them gifting the Trust shares therefore is a waste of time -they obviously don't give a tiny crap about the Trust.
Bugger the compensation - turn it into a PR battle and let people find out how difficult it is to find investors when there is public outrage. | | | |
| A Pipe Dream... on 00:41 - Feb 21 with 1820 views | Jackerwocey |
| A Pipe Dream... on 00:40 - Feb 21 by londonlisa2001 |
I understand the 2 points re less money and the devaluation for their total holding for the Trust getting to 25% - I'm just pointing out that any romantic notion of them gifting the Trust shares therefore is a waste of time -they obviously don't give a tiny crap about the Trust.
Bugger the compensation - turn it into a PR battle and let people find out how difficult it is to find investors when there is public outrage. |
This this this
and a hostile Trust blocking any sale | | | |
| A Pipe Dream... on 00:43 - Feb 21 with 1814 views | londonlisa2001 |
| A Pipe Dream... on 00:40 - Feb 21 by Jackerwocey |
Still confused are they not obliged to offer to us first?
If so if we can meet the price no problem and tough about the effect on their other shares
As they know this is business
Compensate be damned, stop any sale till they sell to us at a reasonable price the 3.7% we need. |
you can't normally do that piecemeal though Spratty.
in other words, if you have an offer for 20% - if the Trust could match that you'd have to sell to them, but if they said - we can only match it for 4% 9or 3.7%) then that normally won't work (I say normally because theoretically anything could be in a shareholder's agreement). | | | |
| A Pipe Dream... on 00:44 - Feb 21 with 1811 views | AndyNak |
| A Pipe Dream... on 00:40 - Feb 21 by londonlisa2001 |
I understand the 2 points re less money and the devaluation for their total holding for the Trust getting to 25% - I'm just pointing out that any romantic notion of them gifting the Trust shares therefore is a waste of time -they obviously don't give a tiny crap about the Trust.
Bugger the compensation - turn it into a PR battle and let people find out how difficult it is to find investors when there is public outrage. |
Completely agree about the gifting, was never going to happen.
I'm not sure about the right of first refusal stuff, only relaying what I heard earlier and I don't think that was asked (or it may have been while I was supping my whisky) but a very valid question.
Maybe someone can answer? | |
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| A Pipe Dream... on 00:46 - Feb 21 with 1802 views | londonlisa2001 |
| A Pipe Dream... on 00:44 - Feb 21 by AndyNak |
Completely agree about the gifting, was never going to happen.
I'm not sure about the right of first refusal stuff, only relaying what I heard earlier and I don't think that was asked (or it may have been while I was supping my whisky) but a very valid question.
Maybe someone can answer? |
Right of first refusal normally only applied to the full amount, not to a selected bit of it (since otherwise, someone would lose a full sale for an existing shareholder to buy just a fraction). | | | |
| A Pipe Dream... on 00:50 - Feb 21 with 1790 views | AndyNak |
As in the full 30% in this instance? Or the % on offer from an individual shareholder? | |
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| A Pipe Dream... on 00:52 - Feb 21 with 1787 views | Aquinas |
Although a lot of people are talking about the fans scraping the 3m or whatever it is together by simply asking season ticket holders/unpaid members, I think there could be better ways of doing it and engaging/notifying Swansea fans of what the Trust is looking too do.. In light of the amount of charity matches at the Liberty, it would be a better incentive to hold a charity match with all money raised going to getting that 25%. Although it may be hard to attract players, the likes of Trundle, Monk (if it was off-season), Forbes etc would surely play.
As an alternative, what would be the chances of Phil S taking over from Kev Johns and giving a rousing speech about investment before a PL game? It has been stated that the shareholders and the trust may not be on the best of terms, but with the Americans withdrawing surely they'd welcome any proposals to raise money to buy the shares they were looking to sell initially. |  | | |
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| A Pipe Dream... on 00:57 - Feb 21 with 1777 views | AndyNak |
I bet the club wouldn't agree to that! Nothing to say we couldn't hold it at another stadium though | |
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| A Pipe Dream... on 00:59 - Feb 21 with 1775 views | Jackerwocey |
| A Pipe Dream... on 00:43 - Feb 21 by londonlisa2001 |
you can't normally do that piecemeal though Spratty.
in other words, if you have an offer for 20% - if the Trust could match that you'd have to sell to them, but if they said - we can only match it for 4% 9or 3.7%) then that normally won't work (I say normally because theoretically anything could be in a shareholder's agreement). |
Thanks Lisa, of course makes sense if I stopped to think about it 
Though as mentioned above if it was the pro rata off a single lower shareholder then that may work because presumably each is a separate sale | | | |
| A Pipe Dream... on 01:01 - Feb 21 with 1771 views | AndyNak |
That's what I was wondering | |
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| A Pipe Dream... on 01:02 - Feb 21 with 1769 views | londonlisa2001 |
| A Pipe Dream... on 00:50 - Feb 21 by AndyNak |
As in the full 30% in this instance? Or the % on offer from an individual shareholder? |
normally it is specified as all of the selling shareholder(s) and again normally specifies 'but not part only'.
In other words, if a takeover offer is received, the 'dissenting shareholder' (in this case the Trust) either matches the whole lot or the right of first refusal falls away.
Again to clarify - it depends on each individual shareholders' agreement - I am only saying what is 'normally' the case. | | | |
| A Pipe Dream... on 01:05 - Feb 21 with 1763 views | londonlisa2001 |
| A Pipe Dream... on 00:59 - Feb 21 by Jackerwocey |
Thanks Lisa, of course makes sense if I stopped to think about it
Though as mentioned above if it was the pro rata off a single lower shareholder then that may work because presumably each is a separate sale |
you'd think so I guess but it's normally not the case.
Again - the rationale is that if you look at this case, one smaller shareholder having to sell to the TRust would cause a detrimental impact on the whole transaction. | | | |
| A Pipe Dream... on 01:06 - Feb 21 with 1761 views | AndyNak |
| A Pipe Dream... on 01:02 - Feb 21 by londonlisa2001 |
normally it is specified as all of the selling shareholder(s) and again normally specifies 'but not part only'.
In other words, if a takeover offer is received, the 'dissenting shareholder' (in this case the Trust) either matches the whole lot or the right of first refusal falls away.
Again to clarify - it depends on each individual shareholders' agreement - I am only saying what is 'normally' the case. |
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| A Pipe Dream... on 01:20 - Feb 21 with 1741 views | Nookiejack |
If they gifted 4% to the Trust - I think they would receive enormous amounts of kudos across the world - from millions of fans that support the fan ownership model. Imagine the gain in standing and repute the people of Swansea would give them You can't put a price on that.
They would have incredible reputations across the world.
That goodwill is far more valuable than the lost opportunity cost of say £4m divided by ? shareholders that decided to participate. | | | |
| A Pipe Dream... on 01:58 - Feb 21 with 1679 views | Edmundo |
| A Pipe Dream... on 23:43 - Feb 20 by Dyfnant |
Stick the £800k on red Phil, it's a lucky colour apparently |
Not bloody likely, we all now how that all ends!
Smacked arses and a club who just embarass themselves the more they chase the coin.
Plod the steady course to long term survival 👠|  |
| Swansea City-Officially the best football team in Wales-FACT |
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| A Pipe Dream... on 02:12 - Feb 21 with 1662 views | Zut_Alors |
Twitter and other social media has a lot to answer for these days, but if there's one positive to come from it, it's how quickly people power can be mobilised.
The wider the net cast for requests, the lower the cost for each donator, so let's not think about those just in the Liberty each week — there's fans all around the world, like me, who'll be happy to donate. Kickstarter, Indiegogo and many other crowdfunding sites could all be used for a campaign.
Great work, Phil! |  | | |
| A Pipe Dream... on 02:19 - Feb 21 with 1655 views | Joe_bradshaw |
It's a great dream but will any shareholder(s) sell to the Trust in order for the Trust to reach 25%?
The likelihood of finding a buyer for the remaining 75% even at a knock down price becomes extremely low because of the power that the Trust would then have.
The existing shareholders were more than happy to entertain selling 30% rising to 60% to the American soccer fans but turned down flat any notion of selling to the Trust. They don't want the Trust to get 25%.
If the Trust could raise the £4M it would put them in a very difficult position and would give the Trust an enormous weapon for the publicity battle.
Let's go for it. |  |
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| A Pipe Dream... on 04:54 - Feb 21 with 1608 views | dameedna |
Far from a pipe dream, we bought 2 x GBP100 'building bonds' to help fund the East Stand, that was never paid back.
GBP100 in 1981 is equivalent to GBP 525 at 5% in 2015.
In today's value over GBP 500 a names on a seat and the right to buy a season ticket.
Not sure what the Trust can give in return, my mind says it would have to something tangible or emotive.
GBP200 from season ticket holders is not a great deal. We paid that to go in the London Eye and that was a waste.
I'd be happy to donate GBP 200 and I don't want a xmas card. |  | | |
| A Pipe Dream... on 05:52 - Feb 21 with 1599 views | JoeSoccerFan |
| A Pipe Dream... on 02:19 - Feb 21 by Joe_bradshaw |
It's a great dream but will any shareholder(s) sell to the Trust in order for the Trust to reach 25%?
The likelihood of finding a buyer for the remaining 75% even at a knock down price becomes extremely low because of the power that the Trust would then have.
The existing shareholders were more than happy to entertain selling 30% rising to 60% to the American soccer fans but turned down flat any notion of selling to the Trust. They don't want the Trust to get 25%.
If the Trust could raise the £4M it would put them in a very difficult position and would give the Trust an enormous weapon for the publicity battle.
Let's go for it. |
Let's say that the Trust acquires the money to buy 4% (3.7% for the more detailed among us), wouldn't the Americans then just make an offer for 30%? Then, the right of first refusal would be useless.
Am I missing something?
Not trying to be a Debbie Downer... | | | |
| A Pipe Dream... on 07:05 - Feb 21 with 1579 views | AngelRangelQS |
Some great suggestions on here.
Plenty of options regarding raising money and a decently ran campaign should get plenty of attention. There are loads of players who this club have made very rich who may be able to contribute some money to us.
Perhaps given his affiliation with the trust and fans, an 'appreciation match' could be organised for Leon with a percentage of the gate going to the trust?
We can reach far and wide with any campaign - we can maybe have corporate packages for businesses.
Whilst money is being raised I think we need to be embarrassing and shaming the rest of the shareholders into selling us the 4% we want. |  | | |
| A Pipe Dream... on 07:48 - Feb 21 with 1550 views | jacksinceever |
| A Pipe Dream... on 23:37 - Feb 20 by Jackfath |
I think the fact that so many ST holders are probably unaware they are not fully paid up members of the Trust could be an issue.
Perhaps awareness needs to be raised somehow? |
I agree with this. As a paid up member, I was shocked at how few are actually paid members, rather than e-members.
A campaign by the Trust and it's members outside the Liberty, handing out leaflets explaining the benefits of being a paid up member, as well as (with the club's blessing) a big screen message from Phil |  | | |
| A Pipe Dream... on 08:04 - Feb 21 with 1539 views | AngelRangelQS |
| A Pipe Dream... on 07:48 - Feb 21 by jacksinceever |
I agree with this. As a paid up member, I was shocked at how few are actually paid members, rather than e-members.
A campaign by the Trust and it's members outside the Liberty, handing out leaflets explaining the benefits of being a paid up member, as well as (with the club's blessing) a big screen message from Phil |
I don't even know what e members are? | | | |
| A Pipe Dream... on 08:10 - Feb 21 with 1539 views | Dr_Winston |
| A Pipe Dream... on 23:40 - Feb 20 by NeathJack |
There has to be a case for a concerted public effort/campaign to press for the other 79% of shareholders to sell/gift a pro-rata amount of their shares to the trust to take us to the 25% level.
Even if they were to do so and then sell their remaining shares, they would still make an enormous profit on their initial investment.
Not just another football club? Proof of the pudding please Mr Morgan/Katzen/Van Zweden/Davies/Jenkins/Dineen et al. |
Perfect.
If anything, the situation has now been clarified. We can stop pretending that any shareholders other than the Trust are prepared to put the best interests of the club and fans ahead of their own profit.
Maybe next time they f*ck up, be it over a commercial shambles, high ticket pricing or whatever we can all treat them like the investors they have become instead of getting the easy ride of benevolent saviours.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| A Pipe Dream... on 08:25 - Feb 21 with 1520 views | neil1964 |
Just putting this out there, could the other shareholders be encouraged to donate a percentage of their shares for the purpose of allowing the trust to achieve a 25% holding, with the deal structured in such a way that their still recieve full dividends / value for their original holding | | | |
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