| This investment by the yanks 20:01 - Dec 27 with 10812 views | wetjack |
We were having a good discussion in the pub yesterday before the game regards this investment in the club which by all accounts does not seem to be an investment but a sale of shares by the shareholders
I saw the trust statement earlier in the week that they could not give us more information at this point in time but we had some questions that I don't know whether anyone can answer for me
I. We assumed that the trust would not sell any shares? Is this the case?
ii. What benefit is there to the football club for this sale
iii. Huw Jenkins has said that he wants to provide protection for the trust - does this mean that he is going to give some of his shares to them?
iiii. have the shareholders actively pushed for a sale or has this kind of landed in their lap
v. what happens to the shareholders that sell in terms of their roles as directors of the club?
vi. what powers do the trust have to veto the club
vii. the banner that has appeared for the past few games on the east stand is a trust banner - yes?
viii. would a change in ownership be for the best for the club if some of the directors want out?
viiii. how much say will we as fans get in the deal
Sorry for all the questions, would be happy if someone has some answers |  |
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| This investment by the yanks on 18:20 - Dec 28 with 1645 views | whiterock |
Wasn't it free membership during our centenary year? | | | |
| This investment by the yanks on 18:23 - Dec 28 with 1637 views | Phil_S |
| This investment by the yanks on 18:06 - Dec 28 by NOTRAC |
The share fund is treated as income for the year.That means that in reality it is not a fund.It is purely income for the Trust.
The share members (122 of them) hold shares and so long as they continue to pay their £1 a year they continue as shareholders.
What is needed is why have these shareholders.What are their rights over and above the annual members.
If there are important issues and decisions to be made by the Trust will the annual members have less rights than the shareholders.
Important points which I feel need clarifying. |
The annual paid up members (those that pay the £10 per year) or equivalent are the ones that have the voting rights
Those that are members purely through having a season ticket have no voting rights
This has been explained before |  | | |
| This investment by the yanks on 18:23 - Dec 28 with 1632 views | perchrockjack |
I ve been trying to keep out of all this since Chrissy warned me to fack off from the site but can't help it now as its getting serious.
IVe just watched Jack to king and know sumbler so I'm asking myself if I should trust him and the likes of stu Mac or faceless Internet jerks concerned only with their own agendas.
Anyone outside this club ,looking in at this crapvfedt, would be asking just wtf we re on about.
Looking at where we are with the people who've guided us, one would have thought we d be ok but no, we have players like ash Williams called bottlers,siggy,as a one trick pony and the trust ,sumbler, included virtually defamed. We have had a director cajoled or conned into meeting a leading ps warrior who is not even a trust member , the same warrior who s rubbished people who collected to save the club when it needed it.
I have no fear for the club with the people in charge but we are gonna reap a maelstrom if we allow this crazy deluge to continue.
It's all be said before though | |
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| This investment by the yanks on 18:28 - Dec 28 with 1618 views | tomdickharry |
| This investment by the yanks on 17:54 - Dec 28 by Phil_S |
Happy hunting as you won't find something that isn't true |
I'll continue my search don't worry. | | | |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:09 - Dec 28 with 1559 views | Uxbridge |
| This investment by the yanks on 14:19 - Dec 28 by KingBony |
Lol, needn't have bothered with those wishy washy nothing answers. |
Which question went unanswered then? |  |
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| This investment by the yanks on 19:12 - Dec 28 with 1549 views | Uxbridge |
| This investment by the yanks on 17:44 - Dec 28 by tomdickharry |
Its buried somewhere in the endless investment posts when I find it I will share it. |
Or, more likely, you misunderstood.
As Mr Chairman kindly pointed out, the full members will get a vote. The Trust Board have unanimously agreed to act as per the members wishes, which I fully believe is right and proper. I can confirm this as I was also at said meeting.
So, in short, you're wrong. Sorry, but you are. | |
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| This investment by the yanks on 19:14 - Dec 28 with 1540 views | NOTRAC |
| This investment by the yanks on 18:23 - Dec 28 by Phil_S |
The annual paid up members (those that pay the £10 per year) or equivalent are the ones that have the voting rights
Those that are members purely through having a season ticket have no voting rights
This has been explained before |
So out of the Trusts 9000 odd paid up members only 122 will have the right to vote .We are of course talking about the right to vote on the Trusts attitude to any share sale.
Although you say this has been fully explained before, I am sure there are many who have been involved in the ongoing discussions who did not realise this .
Could you please confirm what it takes to become a shareholder and have voting rights
Is it purely the payment of an extra £10 .This type of membership does appear to have lapsed.From the accounts obviously none in the last two years.
Whilst I personally have no worries that the Trust representatives will make the right decisions for the Trust, I think it is only fair that all 9000 annual members have the right to become shareholders by knowing how to go about it
Thank you. | |
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| This investment by the yanks on 19:18 - Dec 28 with 1523 views | Uxbridge |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:14 - Dec 28 by NOTRAC |
So out of the Trusts 9000 odd paid up members only 122 will have the right to vote .We are of course talking about the right to vote on the Trusts attitude to any share sale.
Although you say this has been fully explained before, I am sure there are many who have been involved in the ongoing discussions who did not realise this .
Could you please confirm what it takes to become a shareholder and have voting rights
Is it purely the payment of an extra £10 .This type of membership does appear to have lapsed.From the accounts obviously none in the last two years.
Whilst I personally have no worries that the Trust representatives will make the right decisions for the Trust, I think it is only fair that all 9000 annual members have the right to become shareholders by knowing how to go about it
Thank you. |
There aren't 9000 paid up members. There isn't a subset of 122. Apart from that, you crack on.
There are two types of members. The full members are the ones that join the Trust and pay their £10/£5/£2 or whatever. The others are the ones that haven't. The full members (which last I heard ranged between 800 and 1,000 ... not 122) are the members who vote on Trust issues.
Want a vote? Join the Trust. There's a website and everything. | |
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| This investment by the yanks on 19:22 - Dec 28 with 1507 views | Phil_S |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:14 - Dec 28 by NOTRAC |
So out of the Trusts 9000 odd paid up members only 122 will have the right to vote .We are of course talking about the right to vote on the Trusts attitude to any share sale.
Although you say this has been fully explained before, I am sure there are many who have been involved in the ongoing discussions who did not realise this .
Could you please confirm what it takes to become a shareholder and have voting rights
Is it purely the payment of an extra £10 .This type of membership does appear to have lapsed.From the accounts obviously none in the last two years.
Whilst I personally have no worries that the Trust representatives will make the right decisions for the Trust, I think it is only fair that all 9000 annual members have the right to become shareholders by knowing how to go about it
Thank you. |
Refer to Uxbridge's reply - there are not 9000 paid up members (where did that come from?) there are around 800 I think last year and more this year - they are the ones who get to vote.
As has been explained before and we have told every single member this year about it too | | | |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:24 - Dec 28 with 1500 views | NOTRAC |
Sorry obviously a mistake in saying 9000 (that is the amount in cash paid for annual membership not the number of members ).
All I I am asking is how does an annual member become a shareholder | |
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| This investment by the yanks on 19:29 - Dec 28 with 1480 views | Neath_Jack |
| This investment by the yanks on 14:39 - Dec 28 by exiledclaseboy |
I don't know about the figure but I didn't know myself until Phil mentioned to me a couple of months ago that there was a difference between ST "members" and paid-up members. I duly paid my subscription and am now a "proper" member. Lord knows how many others thought/think the same as me, that as long as you've bought your ST you're a proper member of the Trust. If TDH's figure is correct, and I suspect it might be close, it's something else that the Trust should be communicating much more pro-actively. [Post edited 28 Dec 2014 14:41]
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Until i just read this post, i had no idea that i wasn't a paid up member of the trust either, i shall rectify forthwith. I wonder how many other people are aware/not aware of this? Reading further into this thread and seeing there are less than 1000 paid up members in total, then i'd say there were literally thousands of others as well. |  |
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| This investment by the yanks on 19:30 - Dec 28 with 1471 views | Phil_S |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:29 - Dec 28 by Neath_Jack |
Until i just read this post, i had no idea that i wasn't a paid up member of the trust either, i shall rectify forthwith. I wonder how many other people are aware/not aware of this? Reading further into this thread and seeing there are less than 1000 paid up members in total, then i'd say there were literally thousands of others as well. |
We have told all our members this year that they need to pay to become a member. | | | |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:34 - Dec 28 with 1451 views | Uxbridge |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:24 - Dec 28 by NOTRAC |
Sorry obviously a mistake in saying 9000 (that is the amount in cash paid for annual membership not the number of members ).
All I I am asking is how does an annual member become a shareholder |
Nobody becomes a shareholder. The Trust hold the shares. You don't get a share of the club, sorry!
To become a full member of the Trust with voting rights you have to join. Linky woo .. http://www.swanstrust.co.uk/join-the-trust/
It'd take a minute of your time. | |
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| This investment by the yanks on 19:35 - Dec 28 with 1451 views | Neath_Jack |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:30 - Dec 28 by Phil_S |
We have told all our members this year that they need to pay to become a member. |
Got to be honest, i've not seen it Phil.
This would be a good time for the Trust to get some banners up at the stadium, advertising this fact, along with the voting opportunity that comes with it. | |
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| This investment by the yanks on 19:39 - Dec 28 with 1432 views | Phil_S |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:35 - Dec 28 by Neath_Jack |
Got to be honest, i've not seen it Phil.
This would be a good time for the Trust to get some banners up at the stadium, advertising this fact, along with the voting opportunity that comes with it. |
That's fair enough but sometimes there is only so much we can do
I'm not sure banners would make any difference and if I was honest the club would charge us for advertising space... | | | |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:41 - Dec 28 with 1422 views | Uxbridge |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:35 - Dec 28 by Neath_Jack |
Got to be honest, i've not seen it Phil.
This would be a good time for the Trust to get some banners up at the stadium, advertising this fact, along with the voting opportunity that comes with it. |
I think this has been communicated a number of times (newsletter, fans forums, might even have been in the EP column), and it's got a pretty prominent position on the trust website. There's always something more that can be done of course.. This thread may help in that regard. | |
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| This investment by the yanks on 19:43 - Dec 28 with 1414 views | Uxbridge |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:39 - Dec 28 by Phil_S |
That's fair enough but sometimes there is only so much we can do
I'm not sure banners would make any difference and if I was honest the club would charge us for advertising space... |
Last post from me as, well, I'm off to the pub .... but maybe we could add this to the Official Trust Protest banner at the stadium?  | |
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| This investment by the yanks on 19:44 - Dec 28 with 1405 views | NOTRAC |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:34 - Dec 28 by Uxbridge |
Nobody becomes a shareholder. The Trust hold the shares. You don't get a share of the club, sorry!
To become a full member of the Trust with voting rights you have to join. Linky woo .. http://www.swanstrust.co.uk/join-the-trust/
It'd take a minute of your time. |
So the Trust holds the 122 shares in the Trust.
If that is correct that solves the problem
Thank you for your help. | |
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| This investment by the yanks on 19:44 - Dec 28 with 1404 views | jackonicko |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:34 - Dec 28 by Uxbridge |
Nobody becomes a shareholder. The Trust hold the shares. You don't get a share of the club, sorry!
To become a full member of the Trust with voting rights you have to join. Linky woo .. http://www.swanstrust.co.uk/join-the-trust/
It'd take a minute of your time. |
To be fair to Notrac, I think he meant shares in the trust.
The accounts show 122 'issued shares of £1, with a prior year comparative of 128. I don't understand how this reconciles to the number of fully paid up members either. |  | | |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:45 - Dec 28 with 1397 views | exiledclaseboy |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:41 - Dec 28 by Uxbridge |
I think this has been communicated a number of times (newsletter, fans forums, might even have been in the EP column), and it's got a pretty prominent position on the trust website. There's always something more that can be done of course.. This thread may help in that regard. |
I've no doubt that all this is true, but I genuinely didn't know until Phil told me a coupe of months ago.
As an aside, the Trust Twitter account has 4500 followers and is hugely underutilised. |  |
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| This investment by the yanks on 19:48 - Dec 28 with 1378 views | Underthearm65 |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:39 - Dec 28 by Phil_S |
That's fair enough but sometimes there is only so much we can do
I'm not sure banners would make any difference and if I was honest the club would charge us for advertising space... |
Long, long time no post - but reason is an obvious one.
Anyhow, here's my contribution to the rationale of the Trust accounts, as the person who prepares them - although, I would add, they comply with the rules of Supporters Direct and are independently audited.
The Trust provided free membership in 2011-12 to all ST holders, and as shares have to carry a monetary value, set the value accordingly at a nominal 1p. Hence, in the 2011 accounts we are showing share capital of £884 (representing 884 members who paid their £10, of which £1 is the deemed share value). The 2012 accounts then reflect the above free membership provision (fully agreed with Supporters Direct, our governing body), giving a share capital of £128 (representing 12800 members at 1p each).
The share capital has continued to be calculated in this way in the 2013 and 2014 accounts, so the £122 shown in 2014 represents 12200 members at 1p.
During these years of free ST membership, long standing members have continued to pay their £10 annual fees/donations, and these are the people who have been counted in arriving at Phil's 800+ full members, as opposed to e-members, and the monies that they have paid will be included in the Share Fund, with possibly some in Donations.
So although they are not shown as a specific number in the accounts, our database shows us who the "full paying" members are, and I would add that such is a necessity for anyone wishing to put themselves forward for election to the Trust board. | | | |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:56 - Dec 28 with 1360 views | jackonicko |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:48 - Dec 28 by Underthearm65 |
Long, long time no post - but reason is an obvious one.
Anyhow, here's my contribution to the rationale of the Trust accounts, as the person who prepares them - although, I would add, they comply with the rules of Supporters Direct and are independently audited.
The Trust provided free membership in 2011-12 to all ST holders, and as shares have to carry a monetary value, set the value accordingly at a nominal 1p. Hence, in the 2011 accounts we are showing share capital of £884 (representing 884 members who paid their £10, of which £1 is the deemed share value). The 2012 accounts then reflect the above free membership provision (fully agreed with Supporters Direct, our governing body), giving a share capital of £128 (representing 12800 members at 1p each).
The share capital has continued to be calculated in this way in the 2013 and 2014 accounts, so the £122 shown in 2014 represents 12200 members at 1p.
During these years of free ST membership, long standing members have continued to pay their £10 annual fees/donations, and these are the people who have been counted in arriving at Phil's 800+ full members, as opposed to e-members, and the monies that they have paid will be included in the Share Fund, with possibly some in Donations.
So although they are not shown as a specific number in the accounts, our database shows us who the "full paying" members are, and I would add that such is a necessity for anyone wishing to put themselves forward for election to the Trust board. |
And that clears things up perfectly. thanks! | | | |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:57 - Dec 28 with 1352 views | Joe_bradshaw |
To be fair to the Trust board it's not fair to criticise them for a lack of communication about something that has been included in their communications. People don't read the newsletters then moan that they haven't been told stuff that was in the newsletters.
You couldn't make it up to be honest. |  |
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| This investment by the yanks on 19:59 - Dec 28 with 1344 views | exiledclaseboy |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:48 - Dec 28 by Underthearm65 |
Long, long time no post - but reason is an obvious one.
Anyhow, here's my contribution to the rationale of the Trust accounts, as the person who prepares them - although, I would add, they comply with the rules of Supporters Direct and are independently audited.
The Trust provided free membership in 2011-12 to all ST holders, and as shares have to carry a monetary value, set the value accordingly at a nominal 1p. Hence, in the 2011 accounts we are showing share capital of £884 (representing 884 members who paid their £10, of which £1 is the deemed share value). The 2012 accounts then reflect the above free membership provision (fully agreed with Supporters Direct, our governing body), giving a share capital of £128 (representing 12800 members at 1p each).
The share capital has continued to be calculated in this way in the 2013 and 2014 accounts, so the £122 shown in 2014 represents 12200 members at 1p.
During these years of free ST membership, long standing members have continued to pay their £10 annual fees/donations, and these are the people who have been counted in arriving at Phil's 800+ full members, as opposed to e-members, and the monies that they have paid will be included in the Share Fund, with possibly some in Donations.
So although they are not shown as a specific number in the accounts, our database shows us who the "full paying" members are, and I would add that such is a necessity for anyone wishing to put themselves forward for election to the Trust board. |
Well aren't you a very welcome blast from the past.
And that clarifies all the outstanding questions perfectly. | |
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| This investment by the yanks on 20:05 - Dec 28 with 1324 views | Underthearm65 |
| This investment by the yanks on 19:59 - Dec 28 by exiledclaseboy |
Well aren't you a very welcome blast from the past.
And that clarifies all the outstanding questions perfectly. |
Hope so, Andrew.
MOTD on at 10.25 ! | | | |
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