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Reply | Hull Reflection
at 13:31 2 Oct 2024
Not according to the stats houses. All have us down as 9 tackles. And SkySports who give you the breakdown per player had him with zero tackles and zero fouls. They don’t show interceptions so perhaps classed as that? I personally do not recall him making a tackle.
Details though. He’s pony out of possession. Everyone around me was moaning about him. For balance he played a couple of beautiful big diags out to the flank. He clearly has some technical ability but you cannot carry all these passengers out of possession. |
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Reply | Hull Reflection
at 10:09 2 Oct 2024
Exactly Brian. Jim F and I were saying the same thing last night.
Last year the centre of the pitch was 2 then 1 in a triangle. This season, especially the last 4 games, it has been 1 then 2 in the reverse triangle. And those “2” in Madsen and Andersen simply do not track back effectively or press effectively. Zero tackles last night and one foul; they simply weren’t close enough to the ball and Hull’s players.
This means you have a back 4 and Field defending with 5 players the wrong side of the ball all too often. Add that our FBs were forcing the CBs to stretch out wide to cover the ball over the top into the channel (creating a bigger hole in the middle) and that the FBs were exposed and left 1-1, and it is a recipe for conceding a lot of big chances.
At the minute I think he’s trying to do too much. Have a flat back 4, and have the wingers track back more, and perhaps you can get away with Madsen not tracking back in central midfield. Or be ambitious with your full backs but then you have to have two players in central midfield able to cover and shuffle left to right. At times yesterday, if you’d stopped the play, Field had no QPR player within 15 yards of him, and he was bang in the middle of the pitch. That is not right. One one occasion, there were 4 Hull players around him in a box shape.
As you said, our 4 behind Frey were far far too high.
I’d also add that our back 4 was too deep. I suspect this was because of Dunne. He is slow and suspect to a ball over the top. Our record with him starting at centre half over the last two years is woeful. Think it was 7 wins on 40 games before he moved to right back last year. This season, we’ve lost the games he’s started at centre halves too.
Far too much space between our lines. |
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Reply | Hull Reflection
at 00:08 2 Oct 2024
That might have been what was intended, but Madsen was very rarely along side Field in a two man central midfield. Either it was deliberate to have him pushed on or he is a lazy bugger and doesn’t get back.
Paal did invert in the first. Not as much as the second or Millwall, but he did it on a couple of occasions and Dunne was out defending by R block.
Agree to disagree. I think Cifuentes is culpable for system and personnel today. Praise him when he gets it right. Today it was not right. |
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Reply | Tactical approach
at 23:52 1 Oct 2024
I think the tactics are wrong.
We played 4141 today. Or at least that is the shape we held for much of the game. Whether Madsen was meant to be 10 yards in front of Field, is a different question.
Our front 5, more precisely the 4 behind Frey (Saito, Madsen, Andersen, Dembele) were too high and failed to get back goalside when we turned the ball over. Countless times all 5 of those players were the wrong side of the ball “running” back towards our box.
This was compounded by Paal inverting (badly) a lot, leaving a huge hole behind him which forced Dunne out to cover him. That gives Cook a massive problem. He can’t leave a huge gap to Dunne but if he doesn’t, Santos comes narrow and the cross field pass is on with them in acres of space and Santos isolated. Field could drop in to help Cook and keep a more natural back 4, which he did sometimes, but that cedes the midfield entirely.
Our system was a complete mess. You cannot have 5 outfield players not contributing to your defensive set up out of possession. I repeat. 1 tackle all game from that front 5. 1 tackle from the subs that replaced them. So 2 tackles from the front 5 all game. Passengers when we don’t have it. You can’t get away with that in the Championship. |
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Reply | Hull Reflection
at 23:47 1 Oct 2024
I’ll put it here again.
9 tackles made all game to Hull’s 18.
Madsen did not make challenge all game (no tackles or fouls).
Andersen made one challenge (a foul) and gifted them their second goal.
Our starting front 5 made one tackle all game (Saito)
Our subs made 1 tackle all game (Smyth)
Field made 2, Paal 2, Dunne 1, Cook 1, Santos 1. The back 4 at least made some clearances.
We have too many “ballers” and not enough footballers in the team. Footballers who know how to play out of possession. It’s no good being a baller if you don’t have possession and can’t win it back.
This imbalance coupled with the shape and system meant we were so easy to play against. Hull didn’t even have to work that hard to create chances. |
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Reply | Madsen
at 23:30 1 Oct 2024
I agree. I just think you might be able to accommodate him (‘might!’) if he plays at 10. You might be able to carry him as a passenger out of possession and then hope he creates with it somehow.
He cannot play in central midfield though. He’s no more a central midfielder than Stuart Wardley was.
Playing Andersen and him is like playing with 9 men out of possession. Throw in Saito who is so light weight, Paal often 10 yards too high, Santos making naive errors, and we are just so easy to play against.
That system with that personnel that was played today - similar to the Millwall game - does not work. Varane in there is better - we at least held Blackburn evenly whilst it was 11 v 11 - but Varane himself has a lot of flaws. I see some potential there though. I’d play Field, Varane, and Colback just to be sure though. We have to be better out of possession. Today was as easy for Hull to play through us as it was for Blackburn around the same time last year. They could have ended up with 5 at the end.
We made 9 tackles all game. Field made 2 of them, Saito 1, the back 4 the rest. Andersen, Madsen and Dembele made 0 combined. Our starting front 5 made 1 tackle between them all game. That is awful.
To add to this, Madsen did not even concede a foul. So in 83 mins he did not make a single challenge….supposedly playing in central midfield. Andersen conceded 1 foul from his only challenge. So between them just one challenge made (and a foul conceded) all game. That is pretty shocking. You cannot play both together. You simply can’t. [Post edited 1 Oct 23:40]
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Reply | Madsen
at 23:18 1 Oct 2024
I think Madsen and Andersen are the biggest problem! |
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Reply | Hull Reflection
at 23:15 1 Oct 2024
It was on Cifuentes today. Suicidal personnel in that shape and system. Our front 5, well, the 4 behind Frey, were way too high. We played a 4141 but the gap between Field and Madsen and Andersen in front of him were huge. Every time we lost it we had 5 players the wrong side of the ball and were scrambling. Paal trying (badly) to play inverted fullback stretched the centre halves massively too. We were so easy to play against.
Madsen and Andersen can only play at 10. You can only play one of them. At present, I’m not sure you play either. It is mad we keep playing Madsen in central midfield. He has absolutely no awareness or positional sense when are out of possession.
Today we had 3 defensively minded players on the pitch, out of 10. Cook, Dunne, Field. That is not sufficient. The imbalance is far too big. I would get Dunne back at right back as soon as we can, I’d play Field, Colback and Varane in the middle (and ask the latter two not to be idiots), and then play Dembele, Chair, Frey ahead. It may be less creative. It may mean fewer players forward, but it’ll be a lot more solid. |
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Reply | Madsen
at 23:07 1 Oct 2024
Agree. Madsen is a free role 10. He does not have a defensive bone in his body. Has absolutely no positional sense, no instinct of where the ball will, does not track runners, and doesn’t put himself about. If he plays it has to be at 10.
Andersen is exactly the same. Can only play as a luxury 10.
You simply cannot play both together. Was. Obvious after Millwall when we were lucky not to lose. Today we were lucky we didn’t lose by more.
Playing both is compounded by asking Paal to invert (push higher and more central). When we lose the ball, he’s miles out of position, forcing Dunne to come across to the left, leaving Cook exposed in the middle, whilst Field is exposed ahead of him because our front 5 are all the wrong side of the ball. Gaps everywhere. Way too open.
As I said very early in the season, I’d play Field, Colback and Varane all in the middle to try to add some coagulant in there. I’d bin off this inverted fullback stuff; it is not working. And I’d ask Dembele, Chair and Frey to try to create. We have to become harder to beat and play through. Teams who don’t concede sometimes win. Teams who concede 2-3 every week tend to lose a lot. Build from the back. |
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Reply | Fans Forum 30/09/24
at 09:57 1 Oct 2024
Sorry thought this was clear. It is my opinion that there are only two logical options. If someone can present a rational third option, then I’m all ears. Following last night, I think it is pretty obvious Nourry is a bit of a control freak. Again my opinion, of course. |
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Reply | Dembele
at 23:22 30 Sep 2024
Are you insinuating that is perhaps untrue, Clive? |
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Reply | Never a straight Red Card
at 20:33 29 Sep 2024
Exactly. It was stupid. I think it’s a yellow on some days and a red on others. But the point is, don’t make such a stupid challenge.
Varane needs to seriously up his level of performance. His passing wasn’t brave on Saturday and, off the ball, his positioning and tracking of runners is bad, a real concern. |
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Reply | Blackburn travel
at 20:49 26 Sep 2024
Bloody hell. Surely not a night in Blackburn. It is one of the bleakest places in the UK! |
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Reply | Fans Forum 30/09/24
at 18:24 25 Sep 2024
It is also possible that a 27yr old CEO who ran a recruitment consultancy business in football non-playing staff, with only a handful of employees, isn’t quite the fully fledged leader and CEO he could be (yet), and is learning on the job? |
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Reply | Frey
at 13:21 24 Sep 2024
You’ve missed one:
Micky Fray.
That’s what I have been rolling with. Whether correct or not, I think the anglicised pronunciation of his first name is de rigour for a foreigner in the English football leagues. Surely the surname is agreed on? |
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Reply | Fans Forum 30/09/24
at 12:35 23 Sep 2024
People aren’t turning on him. They are just questioning this decision to hold a fans forum without the manager. Questioning the CEO isn’t a bad thing. It’s healthy. He appears to have done some good things to date but he does not appear to be a big believer in transparency. And transparency is almost always a good thing in business and leadership. The opposite: secrecy and opaqueness is rarely a good thing, unless you’re a government agency! [Post edited 23 Sep 13:03]
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Reply | The spine is there, the rest is not working
at 12:31 23 Sep 2024
Chair plays on the left, so he comes in for Saito.
Can Saito be repurposed to the right? Not sure.
Chair could play down the middle and Dembele play right with Saito left, but Chair had very rarely played there for us, so presume he’d rather play on the left to cut in. |
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Reply | The spine is there, the rest is not working
at 12:08 23 Sep 2024
It isn’t just players showing for a pass to feet although I completely agree that Madsen and Andersen failed to do this on Saturday anywhere near enough given their role in the side. Chair will obviously help in this regard because it’s probably his greatest strength.
However, I think the bigger issue is how quickly we try to move it. Dunne and Paal repeatedly took 3-4 touches (Dunne especially) which completely kills any ability to play out. It allows the press to cut off the ball down the line to feet of your wide player.
Equally, JCS repeatedly turned down passes forward to Saito, Frey, and occasionally Madsen which were on, but required half decent execution (20-30 yard passes) and a good touch by the receiver. Instead it’s back across to Cook or out to Paal, but so conservatively he has to turn his shoulders to face JCS meaning he needs an extra touch to play it forward.
Paal also is incredibly conservative in possession. In the first half especially, Saito, who had the beating of his full back, came short into space to receive a ball to feet so he could turn several times and Paal turned it down and went back inside. Millwall were coming across to close the passing lane down but a good pass would have beaten the press (worst result was a throw in to us) and got to Saito.
Perhaps he was wary of Saito retaining it? Therein lies another problem. I think the players don’t trust each other yet. With the top players we’ve had in recent decades (Ferdinand, Sinclair, Buszacky, Adel, Eze) their teammates want to get them the ball whenever the can as soon as they can. Chair is someone that fits that mould who is trusted today. But I’m not sure the back 4 and Field trust the rest of them not to cough it up immediately and create a counter for the opposition. So we turn down passes that are on.
I/We obviously want the back 4 and Field to be bolder. I think the full backs can certainly be braver with the touchline for support and because they are being extremely slow in possession as things stand. However, I think in general the team need to gain more trust in each other.
Dembele is obviously the player you would think most of the team would have the most confidence in to control the ball and turn without losing it. And for that reason, I think he needs to start central.
I’d play Field and Colback/Varane, with Dembele at 10, Saito on the left, and then either Andersen or Smyth out wide right depending on the oppo and their form. |
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Reply | Fans Forum 30/09/24
at 11:36 23 Sep 2024
Move the date then. I’ve already pointed that out. The club have chosen it. They could have chosen any date they liked, certainly not one the night before a game. Not hard to grasp that, surely? It’s not idea for fans either.
If he still doesn’t want to attend regardless of whether the date is near a game, then Nourry can inform him it is mandatory. Every manager has attended whenever they have been held, I believe. It’s not an unfair, demanding request for him to be present, and Nourry would be in his right to enforce attendance. I’m sure many previous managers didn’t want to be there!
I would suggest they have picked a date that gives them an out (“preparing for a game”) that some fans will swallow. The bigger reason is why pick the date to do that? Why not pick a date so Cifuentes can attend? And then you’re back to my two possibilities, unless you can provide me a credible third? |
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Reply | Fans Forum 30/09/24
at 11:22 23 Sep 2024
At no point have I claimed to be “ITK”, and nor have I posted a rumour.
I have simply stated my opinion as two the possible reasons for Cifuentes not being there, by the club’s design.
Provide a credible reason for Cifuentes no attending the fans forum that is not one of the two, remembering that the date could be any night the club want it (not near a game, for example).
It really is one of the two I posted. I don’t know which is it, nor which is better/less bad. |
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