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Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 21:15 - Dec 28 by DwightYorkeSuperstar
Maybe we should look for some bargains in the European leagues. After all, British players are too expensive and we can get such quality for much less from for example;
Eredivise - Wilfred Bony La Liga - Vasquez Bundesliga - Shechter
Why waste money on British players who have proven themself in this league, such as Steven Fletcher, when we can go abroad.
Completely agree with this. I think we need someone British. We went out and bought the championship's leading scorer and he got 13, or was it 14. We go to Europe and get two of the worst strikers we've ever had.
I don't think we'll get Fletcher but along those lines. There's that player in the SPL who's very highly rated.
Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 18:01 - Dec 28 by Davillin
The only reasonable choice is not there. Wanna redo the options and add one?
Bony is not scoring goals for two basic reasons.
1. For whatever reason - whether it's his preference, or coach's instructions - he plays almost constantly in the "D" with a defender on each shoulder, and facing the Swansea goal. He cannot turn because of the defenders, and therefore almost always passes the ball back to a midfielder. In other words, he gets some service, but is not in a position to turn it into something.
2. This is related. He needs to learn when and how to move into space when an attack is developing so that the service can reach him as he's getting into a scoring position [meaning both that he is weakly undefended and in a good place]. Today, as in previous games, I did see midfielders threading the ball into open space that Bony could have, and should have, made a timed move into.
On that matter, I noticed Laudrup giving instructions to Alvaro as the latter took the field, and with words and gesture was telling Alvaro to get forward.
I think Bony can still make valuable contributions, but not while he's playing the position as he is.
So, nothing to do with anyone else then? Not even slightly?
Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 10:00 - Dec 29 by bermudajack
At £13mill our expectations were very high
I've defended him time & time again on here, stating he needs more time to settle etc.
He had plenty of service yesterday (and has had in plenty in previous games)
He has shown absolutely nothing in my view to justify this huge price tag
Talk about style, service, settling in, fitness, game time all you want
The only real positive he has is his strength, when did he last threaten to or even score a goal in the PL?
Let's stop kidding ourselves, he's slow, lazy, out of his depth and not worth even half the £ we paid for him on current performances.
Now we need to spend big for an average striker (as it's January) to compensate. Laudrups record of signing strikers at this level is questionable to say the least.
No wonder the relationship between Laudrup and Huw can appear strained on occasions, wasting £12 M of our limited transfer budget is a huge coq-up. And Vasquez is not adequate backup either...
We can't afford to wait for him to find his mojo at the expense of PL points anymore... And if he doesn't find his mojo? What impact does that have on ML's future transfer budgets?
Absolutely spot on. you need to be lively in this league as a striker to create space for yourself and others by "working the box"making yourself hard to mark, constantly on the move, he must be a dream to mark for defenders who hardly break sweat marking him, he doesn't even hold the ball up, constantly giving it away. I have mentioned this before, if was it Laudrups option to buy him, why not play him like he plays Michu, he clearly does not rate him, and to be honest can you blame him, he is just not premiership quality, a panic buy IMO
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Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 17:40 - Dec 29 with 1727 views
Bony is being forced to play with his back to goal. His complete inability to trap a fcking ball would suggest that just isnt his game.
Our wingers need to get ahead of him and our game plan of always cutting inside (and never crossing first time - that really pisses me off - always have to take a touch of two first) means hes always surrounded. Get it in front of him and give him a chance to fight for it!
"Michu, Britton and Williams could have won 3-0 on their own. They wouldn't have required a keeper."
Had the opportunity of some corp hospitality yesterday in Villa box (a few Jack's in there) so we were very high up, so different view of game and different perspectives from the opposition fans and one current Villa director
Anyway, about an hour gone and we start chirping about Bony....then our Villa friend says 'it's not his fault, how much as he played with your wingers? Reason being when they do out the ball in (which they do sometimes, but not enough) they are putting it between keeper and cf....if you look at Bony he pulls off the centre back each time and is free for cut back....that needs to be drilled into them in training so they are in same wavelength'
The other big snippet was pretty much an admission that Benteke is NOT injured...but on his way to Spurs and because of that is refusing to play in case he gets injured....SHOCKING....said Director was spitting feathers as not only is he on full pay but the other players are up in arms....quite rightly
Anyway, all about different perspectives. Everyone did agree though that Villa were shite and we deserved a 2 goal win
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Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 18:39 - Dec 29 with 1690 views
Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 18:36 - Dec 29 by Big_Phil
Had the opportunity of some corp hospitality yesterday in Villa box (a few Jack's in there) so we were very high up, so different view of game and different perspectives from the opposition fans and one current Villa director
Anyway, about an hour gone and we start chirping about Bony....then our Villa friend says 'it's not his fault, how much as he played with your wingers? Reason being when they do out the ball in (which they do sometimes, but not enough) they are putting it between keeper and cf....if you look at Bony he pulls off the centre back each time and is free for cut back....that needs to be drilled into them in training so they are in same wavelength'
The other big snippet was pretty much an admission that Benteke is NOT injured...but on his way to Spurs and because of that is refusing to play in case he gets injured....SHOCKING....said Director was spitting feathers as not only is he on full pay but the other players are up in arms....quite rightly
Anyway, all about different perspectives. Everyone did agree though that Villa were shite and we deserved a 2 goal win
Scored cut back goals (or near enough) against Valencia and Stoke. It's certainly not something we do particularly often for him, and I think Hernandez missed the chance to lay him on for one yesterday.
Whichever way you want to look at it, Bony ain't best with his back to goal which is the way we usually play him. Get quick, accurate service to him inside the box and he'll put them away.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 18:40 - Dec 29 with 1685 views
My general thoughts on bony are well documented from the first few times I saw him play ,we can hope and hope he turns into a prem goal machine but it's not going to happen every time he plays people keep hoping oh he will be good today and again nothing happens I'm sorry to harp on but the guy is not prem quality neither is Vasquez when it comes to strikers laudrups gash at picking them as I said in another thread jelavic is being let go and two clubs are after him wonder if were one
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Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 19:26 - Dec 29 with 1673 views
Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 18:39 - Dec 29 by Dr_Winston
Scored cut back goals (or near enough) against Valencia and Stoke. It's certainly not something we do particularly often for him, and I think Hernandez missed the chance to lay him on for one yesterday.
Whichever way you want to look at it, Bony ain't best with his back to goal which is the way we usually play him. Get quick, accurate service to him inside the box and he'll put them away.
Well a striker usually needs to be either a run in behind type or a back to goal player who can hold the ball up player which is a major characteristic of a player who can play the lone striker role. If we're suggesting that our Wilfy can do neither then he is a poacher who can normally only play as part of a pair. For me, he is capable of holding the ball up though his technical ability needs honing, and had been said, he works best off accurate balls into the box (from close to the bye line not the 18 yard line or deeper which was the case yesterday a lot of the time) which our inconsistent wide players are incapable of producing often enough.
Lamah's goal showed what is possible when a wide player reaches the bye line and produces a good quality.
Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 18:39 - Dec 29 by Dr_Winston
Scored cut back goals (or near enough) against Valencia and Stoke. It's certainly not something we do particularly often for him, and I think Hernandez missed the chance to lay him on for one yesterday.
Whichever way you want to look at it, Bony ain't best with his back to goal which is the way we usually play him. Get quick, accurate service to him inside the box and he'll put them away.
You are bang on the money. If he has to play the holding game we need an AM to play off him - otherwise he needs more support from wide and that really isn't working - He was was bought to give us a different option - the question is whether the team can adapt to that.
Bottom line is he is a massive investment for us and he should be the focal point for us not the forelorn figure he cuts sometimes. He looks frustrated with himself and his team mates. I feel if we can accomodate him and play around him, he ll get a few PL goals and then he ll really rip it up
Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 19:41 - Dec 29 by longlostjack
You are bang on the money. If he has to play the holding game we need an AM to play off him - otherwise he needs more support from wide and that really isn't working - He was was bought to give us a different option - the question is whether the team can adapt to that.
We have a CAM to feed off him in Michu, who is unfortunately now injured. However, how many times did we see the two in random, very rarely. Pozuelo, the deputy, should be in the CAM role but again isn't really being used. IMO, ML's lack of ambition isn't helping Bony, as in some games Michu has been preferred to him in a role that clearly isn't Mchu's best and when we've played Bony it has generally been with a lack of true CAM support. Added to that is the inconsistent supply from our wide players plus his own technical deficiencies (hold up play needs work) and you have an under achieving striker.
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Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 19:54 - Dec 29 with 1626 views
Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 19:53 - Dec 29 by tylagarwjack
We have a CAM to feed off him in Michu, who is unfortunately now injured. However, how many times did we see the two in random, very rarely. Pozuelo, the deputy, should be in the CAM role but again isn't really being used. IMO, ML's lack of ambition isn't helping Bony, as in some games Michu has been preferred to him in a role that clearly isn't Mchu's best and when we've played Bony it has generally been with a lack of true CAM support. Added to that is the inconsistent supply from our wide players plus his own technical deficiencies (hold up play needs work) and you have an under achieving striker.
In a nutshell.
Still, it's much easier to blame Bony innit?
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 20:08 - Dec 29 with 1608 views
Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 19:54 - Dec 29 by Dr_Winston
In a nutshell.
Still, it's much easier to blame Bony innit?
Well IMO he could have done a bit better but yes, he has been the fall guy as he doesn't run around like a headless chicken.
This reminds me of the Scotland v Pintado "debate" where some preferred the latter on account of work rate whereas in reality, in the stats that truly matter, there was absolutely no comparison whatsoever.
[Post edited 29 Dec 2013 20:08]
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Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 20:09 - Dec 29 with 1604 views
Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 20:08 - Dec 29 by tylagarwjack
Well IMO he could have done a bit better but yes, he has been the fall guy as he doesn't run around like a headless chicken.
This reminds me of the Scotland v Pintado "debate" where some preferred the latter on account of work rate whereas in reality, in the stats that truly matter, there was absolutely no comparison whatsoever.
[Post edited 29 Dec 2013 20:08]
There were even murmurings of a Bauza v Scotland debate at one point, but that was far too ridiculous to last long.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 20:19 - Dec 29 with 1498 views
Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 20:09 - Dec 29 by Dr_Winston
There were even murmurings of a Bauza v Scotland debate at one point, but that was far too ridiculous to last long.
Yes Guillem scored a few in the latter stages of our League One winning season (great contribution at Gillingham) but he wasn't fit to lace Jas's boots.
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Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 20:25 - Dec 29 with 1487 views
Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 20:19 - Dec 29 by tylagarwjack
Yes Guillem scored a few in the latter stages of our League One winning season (great contribution at Gillingham) but he wasn't fit to lace Jas's boots.
The other thing I would add is that Bony hasn't shown an ability to score from nothing, a match winning ability, which would have been nice, given the money we paid,or do you need to pay 20m plus for such attributes?
[Post edited 29 Dec 2013 20:26]
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Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 20:31 - Dec 29 with 1475 views
Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 19:53 - Dec 29 by tylagarwjack
We have a CAM to feed off him in Michu, who is unfortunately now injured. However, how many times did we see the two in random, very rarely. Pozuelo, the deputy, should be in the CAM role but again isn't really being used. IMO, ML's lack of ambition isn't helping Bony, as in some games Michu has been preferred to him in a role that clearly isn't Mchu's best and when we've played Bony it has generally been with a lack of true CAM support. Added to that is the inconsistent supply from our wide players plus his own technical deficiencies (hold up play needs work) and you have an under achieving striker.
"ML's lack of ambition isn't helping Bony"
This struck a chord with me and seems very true.
That said I still think we could have done better for 12 million.
The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 21:17 - Dec 29 with 1430 views
Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 20:31 - Dec 29 by VetchitBack
"ML's lack of ambition isn't helping Bony"
This struck a chord with me and seems very true.
That said I still think we could have done better for 12 million.
I haven't seen him play but that batshuayi from Belgium sounds exactly what we need, and if he's available this transfer window, then if we can afford it we should invest. Benteke hasn't been great this season but he is exactly the type we need, can score, can hold it up but can also run in behind, don't think he is realistic but he's the type we should look for.
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Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 21:19 - Dec 29 with 1428 views
Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 17:32 - Dec 29 by Uxbridge
So, nothing to do with anyone else then? Not even slightly?
If you read my post, you'd see that I wrote, "For whatever reason - whether it's his preference, or coach's instructions . . ."
Although you left it to my imagination, I think you are suggesting that it's poor service.
As I see it, there are three reasons for poor service - (1) teammates aren't passing the ball to him (but they are - both directly to him in the "D" sometimes to feet and sometimes to his head, or into space which he doesn't or can't get to); or (2) he's not putting himself into good positions tor "good service" in the first place [double-marked in the "D" is about the worst position for service]; or (3) he's so tightly marked that all he can do is pass the ball back.
I covered all of that, too, and it should be obvious that I don't think that "poor service" is the problem, or at least not the main problem or the direct problem.
Although you did not mention this [thanks for that], I do not think he's lazy, unintelligent, or any of the other similar charges some posters make [which I do not choose to characterize).
For me, it all boils down to the fact that he tends to remain almost rooted to the "D," as explained in my previous post.
Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 19:50 - Dec 29 by Swanzay
Chicotime for me sum our attacking style problem well:-
Notice in that video how there are at least two players linking up with bony...... something we don't do.
If we played to his strengths like vittesse did, he would score a decent amount of goals. He must be so fecking frustrated with the others.
Seems to move a lot easier in some of the videos and faster. But they are not exactly Premiership defence's going by that. Have to agree with some of the points that Dav brought up in an earlier posting on this thread about not moving out of the 'D'. Think he would be a better centre half than a centre forward
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Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 02:34 - Dec 30 with 1305 views
Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 22:31 - Dec 29 by Jackswan
Seems to move a lot easier in some of the videos and faster. But they are not exactly Premiership defence's going by that. Have to agree with some of the points that Dav brought up in an earlier posting on this thread about not moving out of the 'D'. Think he would be a better centre half than a centre forward
Thanks for that, jackswan. Except for your jest at the end, which is appreciated, the video certainly confirms your analysis.
In my opinion, it also shoots down the stock negative comments about him [that I prefer to not repeat].
And it shows the great value of having more teammates working with him inside the box.
Bony´s lack of goals, whose to blame ?. on 20:25 - Dec 29 by tylagarwjack
The other thing I would add is that Bony hasn't shown an ability to score from nothing, a match winning ability, which would have been nice, given the money we paid,or do you need to pay 20m plus for such attributes?
[Post edited 29 Dec 2013 20:26]
I respectfully suggest that you watch the video of his goal-scoring. It's in several places in this thread. Watch it to the end.
I think you will be very pleased to see that Bony has exactly the two qualities you ask for - in spades.
What he has in the video and doesn't have in a Swansea shirt is the kind of up-close support from inside the box that he needs, which several posters in this thread have noted. You will also note that at no time [that I can recall] is he asked to stand in the "D" and wait for someone to pass him the ball.
If he could play for us as he plays in that video, the difference would be star and most gratifying.
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