| Trump v Zelensky 19:22 - Feb 28 with 20378 views | Drewster |
Absolutely bizarre scenes in the Oval Office today, staggering.
Trump and his VP clearly had a plan to ambush him, but to do it so publicly was bad form.
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| Trump v Zelensky on 13:08 - Mar 3 with 1723 views | loftboy |
| Trump v Zelensky on 12:23 - Mar 3 by Clive_Anderson |
I know some people in Ukraine who live in the East, they know several of their friends who have been dragged off to the front line to be slaughtered. The husband is hiding and can't leave the house as he might get taken by the army and almost certainly killed. They are desperate for the war to end and their opinion is that they are being sacrificed by the West as a proxy to weaken Russia, in fact several US and European politicians have admitted this over the last few years. They can't stand Zelensky and would vote against him given a chance, but there's no elections being held there anymore, so what can they do? Zelensky refuses to even speak to the Russians
I don't know why Starmer and other European leaders are so desperate for the war to continue and no peace deal to be found. They can't beat Russia so will lose the land to the East eventually anyway, so what's the point of feeding more young men to the meat grinder for another year or two and possibly losing even more if their country? I really hope Starmer doesn't start involving us in the conflict even further, it would be complete madness. |
don't know why Starmer and other European leaders are so desperate for the war to continue and no peace deal to be found. They can't beat Russia so will lose the land to the East eventually anyway, so what's the point
££££££££££££$$$$$$$$$. There’s no money for the shareholders of the arms companies most of whom are in government if there’s no wars. |  |
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| Trump v Zelensky on 13:25 - Mar 3 with 1635 views | hubble |
| Trump v Zelensky on 12:23 - Mar 3 by Clive_Anderson |
I know some people in Ukraine who live in the East, they know several of their friends who have been dragged off to the front line to be slaughtered. The husband is hiding and can't leave the house as he might get taken by the army and almost certainly killed. They are desperate for the war to end and their opinion is that they are being sacrificed by the West as a proxy to weaken Russia, in fact several US and European politicians have admitted this over the last few years. They can't stand Zelensky and would vote against him given a chance, but there's no elections being held there anymore, so what can they do? Zelensky refuses to even speak to the Russians
I don't know why Starmer and other European leaders are so desperate for the war to continue and no peace deal to be found. They can't beat Russia so will lose the land to the East eventually anyway, so what's the point of feeding more young men to the meat grinder for another year or two and possibly losing even more if their country? I really hope Starmer doesn't start involving us in the conflict even further, it would be complete madness. |
This is the most profound statement of this entire thread. It's easy for all of us to pontificate and argue the toss, but for the people of Ukraine, it's a very different story.
In whatever shape or form, peace can't come soon enough. |  |
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| Trump v Zelensky on 13:25 - Mar 3 with 1641 views | Landshark |
| Trump v Zelensky on 12:23 - Mar 3 by Clive_Anderson |
I know some people in Ukraine who live in the East, they know several of their friends who have been dragged off to the front line to be slaughtered. The husband is hiding and can't leave the house as he might get taken by the army and almost certainly killed. They are desperate for the war to end and their opinion is that they are being sacrificed by the West as a proxy to weaken Russia, in fact several US and European politicians have admitted this over the last few years. They can't stand Zelensky and would vote against him given a chance, but there's no elections being held there anymore, so what can they do? Zelensky refuses to even speak to the Russians
I don't know why Starmer and other European leaders are so desperate for the war to continue and no peace deal to be found. They can't beat Russia so will lose the land to the East eventually anyway, so what's the point of feeding more young men to the meat grinder for another year or two and possibly losing even more if their country? I really hope Starmer doesn't start involving us in the conflict even further, it would be complete madness. |
One thing this war has shown is that Russia can be beaten on equipment and intelligence. This war has shown that Russia is not the formidable power they once were, having to rely on machines that are decades old and having to rely on ammunition sent over from North Korea to continue to fight.
Russia expected a 3 day "special military operation" and instead got a 3 year war that they were not ready for. Without the human meat waves they have been using and mercenaries from the likes of Wagner Ukraine would have already pushed Russia out by now. Unfortunately Russia is willing to sacrifice many thousands of men, when you're a small defending nation going up against a nation with a population 4 times yours then eventually you are going to run out of men.
This is what I don't understand when I hear the argument "they can't beat Russia so they might as well give up their land". What if Russia had invaded England and they had 20% under their control (the same Russia currently has in Ukraine), that would be about 10 million people. Would you want your leaders to give up and say "that's fine Russia you can have that land but promise me you won't take any more in the future please"? |  | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 13:27 - Mar 3 with 1630 views | francisbowles |
I haven't read all of this thread, so I hope I'm not repeating a history fact made by anyone else.
There is little doubt that Putin is an expansionist dictator and that
Trump and the USA want to remember what happened in the 1930's with appeasing a dictator and an isolationist mentality.
Britain and France eventually had to go to war, too late for France.
The USA was eventually drawn in after being attacked by Japan and having Hitler declare war on them. The war which eventually ended with two atomic bombs forcing a surrender.
An option which won't work in future. | | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 13:29 - Mar 3 with 1610 views | QPRSam |
Had to make sure this wasn't a CSKA Moscow forum with how much pro-Russia slop is in this latter pages of this thread. I don't think history will react to those viewpoints so nicely
Slava Ukraini and I hope this EU coalition can be the building blocks to bring peace to their land | | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 13:36 - Mar 3 with 1555 views | numptydumpty |
| Trump v Zelensky on 09:27 - Mar 3 by Sonic_Hoop |
Are these the new questions on the UK citizenship test? |
That's a little silly Billy Bpy comment!!
Just stated that several that posting on this thread, only ever post about politics, nothing about QPR.
Appreciate you are not in that category, but several that very vocal on this thread, never ever chat about anything QPR based.
Hence the suggestion to them to post on more specific forums to their subjects of interest !!
Such is life !! |  |
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| Trump v Zelensky on 13:39 - Mar 3 with 1545 views | R_from_afar |
| Trump v Zelensky on 11:14 - Mar 3 by hubble |
Oh what a surprise, Hillary Clinton blamed Russia. I mean that's straight out of the playbook. No proof of that whatsoever. Stand that against her (at the same time as the alleged hack) funding the Steele dossier, claiming that Trump had been filmed with prostitutes in a Moscow hotel and was therefore compromised and being blackmailed by Russia. I know how much people despise Trump, but let's have a modicum of objectivity. |
We'll never know the truth and I don't want to fall out with you or anyone else, or end up spending hours arguing about this, but I must add that it wasn't just Hillary who came to that conclusion. The CIA did too.
"US intelligence agencies have concluded that Russia interfered in last month’s presidential election to boost Donald Trump’s bid for the White House, according to reports.
A secret CIA assessment found that Russian operatives covertly interfered in the election campaign in an attempt to ensure the Republican candidate’s victory, the Washington Post reported, citing officials briefed on the matter.
A separate report in the New York Times said intelligence officials had a “high confidence” that Russia was involved in hacking related to the election".
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/10/cia-concludes-russia-interfered- |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Trump v Zelensky on 13:44 - Mar 3 with 1496 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
| Trump v Zelensky on 13:08 - Mar 3 by loftboy |
don't know why Starmer and other European leaders are so desperate for the war to continue and no peace deal to be found. They can't beat Russia so will lose the land to the East eventually anyway, so what's the point
££££££££££££$$$$$$$$$. There’s no money for the shareholders of the arms companies most of whom are in government if there’s no wars. |
7 pages in and a huge point here war means money and always has the blood of civilians on the hands of people in the "industry
Without igniting the Trump hatred debate again but the Europen meeting and backin Ukraine is just what he has been asking for even if the US does not get the minerals.
I heard a superb interview from an English journalist living in Moscow last week and she was very confident in her sources that Russia has only a 9 month supply of military personel/equipement left and Putin is desperate for a face saving solution.
NOw is the time for a peace deal not more weapons of mass destruction IMO |  | | |
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| Trump v Zelensky on 13:45 - Mar 3 with 1501 views | Sonic_Hoop |
| Trump v Zelensky on 13:25 - Mar 3 by hubble |
This is the most profound statement of this entire thread. It's easy for all of us to pontificate and argue the toss, but for the people of Ukraine, it's a very different story.
In whatever shape or form, peace can't come soon enough. |
Do you get much peace in an annexed country? I think they'll gamble on being able to keep Russia at bay for another 4 years until a change of leadership in the US. What's it going to cost us? A hike in mortgage rates and lots of work for one of our key industries. Another million Russians and maybe 100,000 Ukrainians dead isn't going to keep our politicians awake at night.
If Trump was serious about peace, he'd pressure Putin for a deal not Zelensky. |  | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 13:55 - Mar 3 with 1472 views | Match82 |
| Trump v Zelensky on 12:23 - Mar 3 by Clive_Anderson |
I know some people in Ukraine who live in the East, they know several of their friends who have been dragged off to the front line to be slaughtered. The husband is hiding and can't leave the house as he might get taken by the army and almost certainly killed. They are desperate for the war to end and their opinion is that they are being sacrificed by the West as a proxy to weaken Russia, in fact several US and European politicians have admitted this over the last few years. They can't stand Zelensky and would vote against him given a chance, but there's no elections being held there anymore, so what can they do? Zelensky refuses to even speak to the Russians
I don't know why Starmer and other European leaders are so desperate for the war to continue and no peace deal to be found. They can't beat Russia so will lose the land to the East eventually anyway, so what's the point of feeding more young men to the meat grinder for another year or two and possibly losing even more if their country? I really hope Starmer doesn't start involving us in the conflict even further, it would be complete madness. |
totally understand where you're coming from especially in terms of who is really suffering here.
But you have to think that minds are going back to 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea and the world stood by and said "ok". Does anybody really believe that if someone draws a map with new lines on to "finish the war" that Putin isn't going to come back in five years and say "well I got away with it twice, I'll just take the rest now" |  | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 14:12 - Mar 3 with 1420 views | loftupper |
| Trump v Zelensky on 12:23 - Mar 3 by Clive_Anderson |
I know some people in Ukraine who live in the East, they know several of their friends who have been dragged off to the front line to be slaughtered. The husband is hiding and can't leave the house as he might get taken by the army and almost certainly killed. They are desperate for the war to end and their opinion is that they are being sacrificed by the West as a proxy to weaken Russia, in fact several US and European politicians have admitted this over the last few years. They can't stand Zelensky and would vote against him given a chance, but there's no elections being held there anymore, so what can they do? Zelensky refuses to even speak to the Russians
I don't know why Starmer and other European leaders are so desperate for the war to continue and no peace deal to be found. They can't beat Russia so will lose the land to the East eventually anyway, so what's the point of feeding more young men to the meat grinder for another year or two and possibly losing even more if their country? I really hope Starmer doesn't start involving us in the conflict even further, it would be complete madness. |
I'm in a similar position as you with knowing a good many people in Ukraine, due to so many tech teams being based out of there, the quality of Kyiv Polytechnic among others is producing so many good quality devs. Sadly, I've lost a colleague to the war who was called up as a reservist on day 1 and have another in hospital recovering from serious wounds. Others like you say are scared to leave to the house in Kyiv for fear of being picked up and forcibly enlisted.
But, this could end tomorrow if the Russians withdrew.
My view is that it should really come down to Ukraines allies helping to put Ukraine in the best position for it to negotiate peace, to retain as much of its sovereign land as possible and to ensure that this does not happen again in 2, 3, 4 or 5 years. What is happening is the opposite of that with Russia being put into an ascendancy.
Supporters of Trump appear to like his negotiating style, I can't help but see it as very simplistic. Maybe I am just not smart enough to understand his weaving | | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 15:34 - Mar 3 with 1248 views | connell10 |
| Trump v Zelensky on 08:23 - Mar 3 by numptydumpty |
I don't mind the odd political debate etc.
In my mind with Trump, it goes beyond politics and is frightening in the extreme, but I won't go there. Dangerous territory.
But I would say, who are these five or six posters on this thread that never ever post about QPR, but pipe up big time, when we have such threads as this.
Please, can you say why you follow Rangers, your favourite game you attended and your cheese of choice.
Otherwise, why are you on this forum. Your words are for more specific forums.
And I have no issues with regular posters on here, debating this issue.. |
Yep like you can guarantee the 4 horsemen off the apocalypse will come galloping in to threads like these , never to be seen again until the next political thread! Oh and sorry about my grammar, unfortunately I had a stroke 5 years ago which makes it hard for me to type sometimes, especially when I'm angry. |  |
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| Trump v Zelensky on 15:58 - Mar 3 with 1163 views | Orthodox_Hoop |
| Trump v Zelensky on 15:34 - Mar 3 by connell10 |
Yep like you can guarantee the 4 horsemen off the apocalypse will come galloping in to threads like these , never to be seen again until the next political thread! Oh and sorry about my grammar, unfortunately I had a stroke 5 years ago which makes it hard for me to type sometimes, especially when I'm angry. |
Sorry about your stroke connell, hopefully you're ok and you can sort out your anger issues so it doesn't affect you so much. I apologise for the bad grammar comment, it was uncalled for.
My understanding from a while back was that non-footballing threads like these were not welcomed by the forum admin, but some way along the line that changed again. Case in point: I asked the same question at the start of the mammoth Biden v Trump thread started by the same poster who on this very thread has demanded to be arbiter of who can and who can't post their thoughts on anything, and this was their response:
"I started this thread Orthodox
We have always had a varied list of topics debated on here.
Music, other sports and general affairs etc.
And general posts when someone famous passes away etc.
Yes there is one on our general election and when covid was at its height, and zero football happening, there was some very frank exchanges going ahead.
We all follow our team but there is life outside of QPR and some of it, from my perspective, I enjoy debating about all sorts of other issues.
If some people get out of hand with sometimes some inappropriate bashing of other forum members, I think that's when some of these discussions would be challenging.
If we all remain respectful of others when stating our own personal views, I feel it's all OK but if not, I stand corrected.."
My suggestion would be to either a) have a blanket ban on anything non-QPR related, or b) not get involved in a non-QPR related discussion in which you might read thoughts and views that differ from your own. Obviously any blatant nastiness (profanity, name-calling, racism, misogyny, etc) would be off the table as we're all adults here who should be able to control our emotions and have respectable chats with each other.
BTW, my favourite cheese is chaource, my favourite ever match was the Play-Off final, and I follow the Rs because I fell in love with them in 1987after being dragged to the 3-1 victory vs Coventry on Boxing Day by my dad's mate. [Post edited 3 Mar 16:07]
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| Trump v Zelensky on 16:26 - Mar 3 with 1055 views | Sonic_Hoop |
| Trump v Zelensky on 13:36 - Mar 3 by numptydumpty |
That's a little silly Billy Bpy comment!!
Just stated that several that posting on this thread, only ever post about politics, nothing about QPR.
Appreciate you are not in that category, but several that very vocal on this thread, never ever chat about anything QPR based.
Hence the suggestion to them to post on more specific forums to their subjects of interest !!
Such is life !! |
I wasn't having a dig, I just don't have a favourite cheese. | | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 16:29 - Mar 3 with 1038 views | Esox_Lucius |
| Trump v Zelensky on 13:25 - Mar 3 by Landshark |
One thing this war has shown is that Russia can be beaten on equipment and intelligence. This war has shown that Russia is not the formidable power they once were, having to rely on machines that are decades old and having to rely on ammunition sent over from North Korea to continue to fight.
Russia expected a 3 day "special military operation" and instead got a 3 year war that they were not ready for. Without the human meat waves they have been using and mercenaries from the likes of Wagner Ukraine would have already pushed Russia out by now. Unfortunately Russia is willing to sacrifice many thousands of men, when you're a small defending nation going up against a nation with a population 4 times yours then eventually you are going to run out of men.
This is what I don't understand when I hear the argument "they can't beat Russia so they might as well give up their land". What if Russia had invaded England and they had 20% under their control (the same Russia currently has in Ukraine), that would be about 10 million people. Would you want your leaders to give up and say "that's fine Russia you can have that land but promise me you won't take any more in the future please"? |
As I said earlier; if Russia stop fighting there will be no war but if Ukraine stop fighting, there will be no Ukraine. It is that simple. |  |
| The grass is always greener. |
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| Trump v Zelensky on 16:36 - Mar 3 with 1002 views | Clive_Anderson |
| Trump v Zelensky on 13:25 - Mar 3 by Landshark |
One thing this war has shown is that Russia can be beaten on equipment and intelligence. This war has shown that Russia is not the formidable power they once were, having to rely on machines that are decades old and having to rely on ammunition sent over from North Korea to continue to fight.
Russia expected a 3 day "special military operation" and instead got a 3 year war that they were not ready for. Without the human meat waves they have been using and mercenaries from the likes of Wagner Ukraine would have already pushed Russia out by now. Unfortunately Russia is willing to sacrifice many thousands of men, when you're a small defending nation going up against a nation with a population 4 times yours then eventually you are going to run out of men.
This is what I don't understand when I hear the argument "they can't beat Russia so they might as well give up their land". What if Russia had invaded England and they had 20% under their control (the same Russia currently has in Ukraine), that would be about 10 million people. Would you want your leaders to give up and say "that's fine Russia you can have that land but promise me you won't take any more in the future please"? |
I'm sure with enough extra men and firepower Ukraine could do better and maybe win the war, but where are those extra men going to come from?
If you are between 25 and 55 I believe you can sign up yourself or if you're too old you might have a son or other younger family or friends you could encourage to sign up instead. It would be hell on earth and you'd almost certainly be killed, but if you think it's all worth it you could put your own life on the line.
If suddenly you don't fancy it (and I wouldn't really blame you) then why should the young Ukrainian men be forced into it instead?
"What if Russia had invaded England and they had 20% under their control"
I'm probably the wrong person to ask, I walk around parts of London these days and it feels completely alien to me. I certainly wouldn't be getting myself blown to stop Russia from owning a part of it, even if it was remotely likely. | | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 16:46 - Mar 3 with 960 views | colinallcars |
| Trump v Zelensky on 16:36 - Mar 3 by Clive_Anderson |
I'm sure with enough extra men and firepower Ukraine could do better and maybe win the war, but where are those extra men going to come from?
If you are between 25 and 55 I believe you can sign up yourself or if you're too old you might have a son or other younger family or friends you could encourage to sign up instead. It would be hell on earth and you'd almost certainly be killed, but if you think it's all worth it you could put your own life on the line.
If suddenly you don't fancy it (and I wouldn't really blame you) then why should the young Ukrainian men be forced into it instead?
"What if Russia had invaded England and they had 20% under their control"
I'm probably the wrong person to ask, I walk around parts of London these days and it feels completely alien to me. I certainly wouldn't be getting myself blown to stop Russia from owning a part of it, even if it was remotely likely. |
Starmer's “ boots on the ground and planes in the air” is, hopefully just waffle. The Army has fewer members than at any time since the Napoleonic wars.
The younger generation aren't well disposed to war which may be a good thing in modern times.
My Dad's generation were as hard as nails. My uncle swept mines in the North Atlantic - this was not exceptional to that generation. |  | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 21:13 - Mar 3 with 585 views | stowmarketrange |
| Trump v Zelensky on 16:36 - Mar 3 by Clive_Anderson |
I'm sure with enough extra men and firepower Ukraine could do better and maybe win the war, but where are those extra men going to come from?
If you are between 25 and 55 I believe you can sign up yourself or if you're too old you might have a son or other younger family or friends you could encourage to sign up instead. It would be hell on earth and you'd almost certainly be killed, but if you think it's all worth it you could put your own life on the line.
If suddenly you don't fancy it (and I wouldn't really blame you) then why should the young Ukrainian men be forced into it instead?
"What if Russia had invaded England and they had 20% under their control"
I'm probably the wrong person to ask, I walk around parts of London these days and it feels completely alien to me. I certainly wouldn't be getting myself blown to stop Russia from owning a part of it, even if it was remotely likely. |
They already do own more than 20% of it,but they can’t take it away with them. |  | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 21:37 - Mar 3 with 534 views | Sonic_Hoop |
| Trump v Zelensky on 21:13 - Mar 3 by stowmarketrange |
They already do own more than 20% of it,but they can’t take it away with them. |
They can take some of it, if you're including the MPs they own. | | | |
| Trump v Zelensky on 22:11 - Mar 3 with 463 views | rbee |
| Trump v Zelensky on 13:45 - Mar 3 by Sonic_Hoop |
Do you get much peace in an annexed country? I think they'll gamble on being able to keep Russia at bay for another 4 years until a change of leadership in the US. What's it going to cost us? A hike in mortgage rates and lots of work for one of our key industries. Another million Russians and maybe 100,000 Ukrainians dead isn't going to keep our politicians awake at night.
If Trump was serious about peace, he'd pressure Putin for a deal not Zelensky. |
My gamble would be bigger than that. Trump is really only interested in the improvement of America which is why he doesn’t want to pump billions more dollars in to the war. I see his point and wish that Starmer would to. If everyone kept funding this war in two years’ time, I don’t suppose that the frontline will have moved that far but there would be thousands more dead and injured. The sooner this war ends the better for all concerned including us. Every pound the UK gives Ukraine is borrowed. Let Trump and Putin both claim victory.
Unfortunately, I cannot see an end to the war without Russia making territorial gains. Initially Putin will obviously ask for way too much territory but Ukraine will have to concede enough to save Putin’s face. What has already been won is ravaged by war. I know that this is fundamentally wrong, conceding to the aggressor, the bully, but currently I don’t see any other way.
My gamble would be to keep Putin quiet. Unfortunately, he is only 72 years old and is in power for another eleven years. My gamble would be to look beyond Putin, hope that his successor was more reasonable, forward thinking and not expansionist. Pray that Putin's eleven year tenure is cut short somehow. [Post edited 3 Mar 22:28]
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| Trump v Zelensky on 22:59 - Mar 3 with 356 views | Bluce_Ree |
I'm hoping Putin dies immediately if not soon.
Russia is fked though. Like properly. They arent having enough kids to keep the country working. They're financially more fked than a thousand QPRs and all their intelligent people have left the country. |  |
| Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. |
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| Trump v Zelensky on 23:27 - Mar 3 with 267 views | numptydumpty |
| Trump v Zelensky on 22:59 - Mar 3 by Bluce_Ree |
I'm hoping Putin dies immediately if not soon.
Russia is fked though. Like properly. They arent having enough kids to keep the country working. They're financially more fked than a thousand QPRs and all their intelligent people have left the country. |
President Roman Abramovich could take over then !!!
He has already been at the helm of one corrupt organisation.
Perfect qualifications to succeed Putin... [Post edited 3 Mar 23:28]
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| Trump v Zelensky on 23:34 - Mar 3 with 241 views | numptydumpty |
| Trump v Zelensky on 15:34 - Mar 3 by connell10 |
Yep like you can guarantee the 4 horsemen off the apocalypse will come galloping in to threads like these , never to be seen again until the next political thread! Oh and sorry about my grammar, unfortunately I had a stroke 5 years ago which makes it hard for me to type sometimes, especially when I'm angry. |
Your grammar seems fine to me Connell.
I worked for Stroke Association some years ago but not as a direct support.
Hope you have recovered as best as you can, Connell. | |
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| Trump v Zelensky on 23:58 - Mar 3 with 214 views | connell10 |
| Trump v Zelensky on 23:34 - Mar 3 by numptydumpty |
Your grammar seems fine to me Connell.
I worked for Stroke Association some years ago but not as a direct support.
Hope you have recovered as best as you can, Connell. |
Thanks mate 👍 👌 🙏 | |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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