| How much debt … 15:57 - Mar 13 with 2377 views | Badlands |
.. would fans consider acceptable?
I keep seeing comments about not spending money but if we spend we take on debt so how much is acceptable given to finish 3rd to 10th? And, is that debt acceptable year on year as at Cardiff for example.
And how does not buying tickets and not going to matches and not actively supporting the team help achieve improvement?
We are undoubtedly bad at the moment but I am really sick of the whining of the entitled who believe everyone else should cough up and our righful place is in the Premier League. |  |
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| How much debt … on 16:25 - Mar 13 with 2340 views | pencoedjack |
I don't believe our rightful place is in the PL but I do believe its fair (as a paying customer) to be served some kind of entertainment.
The last 2 seasons has (in general) been the most boring garbage I have watched in my times following the Swans.
Martin has wasted money (sales or loan) to name a few on Woods, Fisher, Sorinola & it seems like Darling, he has been unable to manage players like Paterson & Obafemi (Id imagine most managers have to deal with difficult players) he has also made very bad loan signings from the PL clubs.
Id happily take L1 with entertaining football over Martin's flawed project. |  | | |
| How much debt … on 16:32 - Mar 13 with 2326 views | vetchonian |
How many posters on here of late are stating our rightful place is in the Premier league?
Most are saying we should be doing better than we are given our squad...Yes there are some who have criticised the ownership for not spending monies we havent got but most of those did so after the January window in defence of MArtin
I believe most of our core loyal fan base recognise that we dont have megafunds to throw away and those of us who were around in the 80s to see the demise post Div 1 and then the Petty saga have no wish for a repeat. |  |
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| How much debt … on 17:16 - Mar 13 with 2298 views | Dr_Winston |
| How much debt … on 16:32 - Mar 13 by vetchonian |
How many posters on here of late are stating our rightful place is in the Premier league?
Most are saying we should be doing better than we are given our squad...Yes there are some who have criticised the ownership for not spending monies we havent got but most of those did so after the January window in defence of MArtin
I believe most of our core loyal fan base recognise that we dont have megafunds to throw away and those of us who were around in the 80s to see the demise post Div 1 and then the Petty saga have no wish for a repeat. |
I believe most of our core loyal fanbase wouldn't give two hoots about how much we spent until the bills became due. Then it would obviously be someone elses fault why the club are in a financial mess.
Comparatively very few are actually interested in us trying to maintain a sustainable existence, which for a club that have been in administration as often we have is frankly quite disgusting. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| How much debt … on 17:45 - Mar 13 with 2273 views | vetchonian |
| How much debt … on 17:16 - Mar 13 by Dr_Winston |
I believe most of our core loyal fanbase wouldn't give two hoots about how much we spent until the bills became due. Then it would obviously be someone elses fault why the club are in a financial mess.
Comparatively very few are actually interested in us trying to maintain a sustainable existence, which for a club that have been in administration as often we have is frankly quite disgusting. |
you could be well right there Doc some of our so called uberfans have made noises on here about lack of spending...despite us having very few pennies to throw around | |
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| How much debt … on 18:08 - Mar 13 with 2255 views | eddie71 |
I don't think its necessairly about debt, I would just like to feel the club was on an upward rather than a downward trajectory. Debt isnt bad in itself we all go into debt for mortgages or business loans etc in the expectation that there in a payback.
I realise of course this is subtle PR for the owners. Lets have five minutes and remember how the club has gome backwards under thier stewardship and compare our owners to those of Bournemouth or Brentford both who even now have smaller gates but would have us for breakfast both on and off the pitch. | | | |
| How much debt … on 18:24 - Mar 13 with 2241 views | Whiterockin |
Whatever it takes to change the manager. |  | | |
| How much debt … on 21:33 - Mar 13 with 2119 views | max936 |
| How much debt … on 16:25 - Mar 13 by pencoedjack |
I don't believe our rightful place is in the PL but I do believe its fair (as a paying customer) to be served some kind of entertainment.
The last 2 seasons has (in general) been the most boring garbage I have watched in my times following the Swans.
Martin has wasted money (sales or loan) to name a few on Woods, Fisher, Sorinola & it seems like Darling, he has been unable to manage players like Paterson & Obafemi (Id imagine most managers have to deal with difficult players) he has also made very bad loan signings from the PL clubs.
Id happily take L1 with entertaining football over Martin's flawed project. |
Is Martin responsible for all the players that have been signed over his tenure though, I'm not convinced that he is, especially the loan signings, the players he has brought here haven't hit the mark though, that's for sure, Downes apart, assuming that was his decision of course. [Post edited 13 Mar 2023 21:43]
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| How much debt … on 21:42 - Mar 13 with 2109 views | max936 |
| How much debt … on 18:08 - Mar 13 by eddie71 |
I don't think its necessairly about debt, I would just like to feel the club was on an upward rather than a downward trajectory. Debt isnt bad in itself we all go into debt for mortgages or business loans etc in the expectation that there in a payback.
I realise of course this is subtle PR for the owners. Lets have five minutes and remember how the club has gome backwards under thier stewardship and compare our owners to those of Bournemouth or Brentford both who even now have smaller gates but would have us for breakfast both on and off the pitch. |
Debt is ok when its a sustainable/managed debt, its when it goes above and beyond is where the issues start and that is probably easily done at a football club.
I don't give a hoots about being back in the Prem, I'd admit that it would be great to have another crack of course, but I'd settle for being competitive in the Championship with a few flirtatious moments in the playoffs.
We are where we probably deserve to be as a club of our size, we did very well in the Premiership, but not many offers came in from money men wishing to buy the club or even sponsor us with any substantial deals. | |
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| How much debt … on 22:05 - Mar 13 with 2086 views | pencoedjack |
| How much debt … on 21:33 - Mar 13 by max936 |
Is Martin responsible for all the players that have been signed over his tenure though, I'm not convinced that he is, especially the loan signings, the players he has brought here haven't hit the mark though, that's for sure, Downes apart, assuming that was his decision of course. [Post edited 13 Mar 2023 21:43]
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He’s certainly responsible for the crap football served up for that I’m sure nobody disagrees. | | | |
| How much debt … on 23:23 - Mar 13 with 2043 views | swancity |
The Club is lacking ambition and direction from the top. It’s drifting and going through the motions, remaining financially stable it seems whilst becoming a selling club.
An injection of money is needed. We need to see out the season and then the owners need to decide what they want to do. I have some sympathy with Russell Martin. We were in the play off places a few months ago, playing some nice football but with zero interest from the absent owners in general and then in January when no new players arrived, the atmosphere within seems to have deteriorated.
Until we start paying the going rate to attract top players in this division there’s no immediate fix. We are shopping at Lidl again whilst we need to do some of our shopping at Marks and Soencer. | |
| Only an idiot would eat a turkey curry on Christmas day |
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| How much debt … on 10:04 - Mar 14 with 1928 views | max936 |
| How much debt … on 22:05 - Mar 13 by pencoedjack |
He’s certainly responsible for the crap football served up for that I’m sure nobody disagrees. |
I agree wholeheartedly, he should have been sacked months ago in my opinion. | |
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| How much debt … on 10:07 - Mar 14 with 1925 views | max936 |
| How much debt … on 23:23 - Mar 13 by swancity |
The Club is lacking ambition and direction from the top. It’s drifting and going through the motions, remaining financially stable it seems whilst becoming a selling club.
An injection of money is needed. We need to see out the season and then the owners need to decide what they want to do. I have some sympathy with Russell Martin. We were in the play off places a few months ago, playing some nice football but with zero interest from the absent owners in general and then in January when no new players arrived, the atmosphere within seems to have deteriorated.
Until we start paying the going rate to attract top players in this division there’s no immediate fix. We are shopping at Lidl again whilst we need to do some of our shopping at Marks and Soencer. |
Lidls is pushing it, more like Poundstretchers and B&M bargains. | |
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| How much debt … on 10:46 - Mar 14 with 1911 views | BryanSwan |
| How much debt … on 23:23 - Mar 13 by swancity |
The Club is lacking ambition and direction from the top. It’s drifting and going through the motions, remaining financially stable it seems whilst becoming a selling club.
An injection of money is needed. We need to see out the season and then the owners need to decide what they want to do. I have some sympathy with Russell Martin. We were in the play off places a few months ago, playing some nice football but with zero interest from the absent owners in general and then in January when no new players arrived, the atmosphere within seems to have deteriorated.
Until we start paying the going rate to attract top players in this division there’s no immediate fix. We are shopping at Lidl again whilst we need to do some of our shopping at Marks and Soencer. |
I think our downturn was already well in flow by January, we've barely won a game since the end of October.
As for paying the going rate for players we have never competed financially with these clubs, but what we have done is bring in undervalued players, even recently. Manning for 200k or so, Piroe £1m, Downes £1m+, Obafemi £1.5m, Wood free?. | |
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| How much debt … on 11:19 - Mar 14 with 1885 views | KeithHaynes |
Sustainability is all the owners care about.
1. So they don’t lose face with investors elsewhere as incompetent which affects future ability to be trusted to invest in other projects and encourage others as they have with Swansea to put in money.
2. Sustainability of course means they have an excuse as to why they don’t invest when fans want them to. Nobody makes real money from a championship club in Swansea’s position.
For me, thems the facts. |  |
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| How much debt … on 12:05 - Mar 14 with 1870 views | max936 |
| How much debt … on 11:19 - Mar 14 by KeithHaynes |
Sustainability is all the owners care about.
1. So they don’t lose face with investors elsewhere as incompetent which affects future ability to be trusted to invest in other projects and encourage others as they have with Swansea to put in money.
2. Sustainability of course means they have an excuse as to why they don’t invest when fans want them to. Nobody makes real money from a championship club in Swansea’s position.
For me, thems the facts. |
They're never gonna make the money back that they bought the club for if we continue struggling in the Championship with 3 wins in 22 games, possibly 3 in 24 come 3pm Sunday afternoon.
Unless they have somehow remarkably have recovered that cost. | |
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| How much debt … on 12:21 - Mar 14 with 1862 views | vetchonian |
| How much debt … on 11:19 - Mar 14 by KeithHaynes |
Sustainability is all the owners care about.
1. So they don’t lose face with investors elsewhere as incompetent which affects future ability to be trusted to invest in other projects and encourage others as they have with Swansea to put in money.
2. Sustainability of course means they have an excuse as to why they don’t invest when fans want them to. Nobody makes real money from a championship club in Swansea’s position.
For me, thems the facts. |
Sustainability should be something us fans care about too....
Having witnessed the HIgh Court episode back in 1985 and the subsequent struggles until Petty was ousted I would much prefer the club existed and had zero or minimum debt .
We all want us to be successful on the pitch but throwing cash at it isnt always the answer...in fairness up until this January the owners have supported the manager in the transfer market...but his buys have perhaps not been right | |
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| How much debt … on 18:22 - Mar 14 with 1787 views | KeithHaynes |
| How much debt … on 12:21 - Mar 14 by vetchonian |
Sustainability should be something us fans care about too....
Having witnessed the HIgh Court episode back in 1985 and the subsequent struggles until Petty was ousted I would much prefer the club existed and had zero or minimum debt .
We all want us to be successful on the pitch but throwing cash at it isnt always the answer...in fairness up until this January the owners have supported the manager in the transfer market...but his buys have perhaps not been right |
85 was the worst Vetch for sure.
2002 was different I just knew we would get it right. | |
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| How much debt … on 20:23 - Mar 14 with 1728 views | SullutaCreturned |
| How much debt … on 11:19 - Mar 14 by KeithHaynes |
Sustainability is all the owners care about.
1. So they don’t lose face with investors elsewhere as incompetent which affects future ability to be trusted to invest in other projects and encourage others as they have with Swansea to put in money.
2. Sustainability of course means they have an excuse as to why they don’t invest when fans want them to. Nobody makes real money from a championship club in Swansea’s position.
For me, thems the facts. |
Generally speaking owning a football club is the best way to lose money. How many owners have ever made a profit? Very few but top of that list has to be the Glazers at Manyoo and how they were allowed to buy the club using the club itself as collateral is well beyond my understanding.
Sheik wotsischops at Manc City has spent well over One Billlion so far and Abramovich spent even more. J Henry/FSG are under pressure at Liverpool apparently and they announced a small profit before tax of 7.5 million. | | | |
| How much debt … on 21:58 - Mar 14 with 1696 views | felixstowe_jack |
| How much debt … on 21:33 - Mar 13 by max936 |
Is Martin responsible for all the players that have been signed over his tenure though, I'm not convinced that he is, especially the loan signings, the players he has brought here haven't hit the mark though, that's for sure, Downes apart, assuming that was his decision of course. [Post edited 13 Mar 2023 21:43]
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Martin is responsible for out team performance or lack of it. We have the third worst defence in the championship any half decent manager can organise a defence. | |
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| How much debt … on 22:26 - Mar 14 with 1682 views | Kilkennyjack |
| How much debt … on 18:24 - Mar 13 by Whiterockin |
Whatever it takes to change the manager. |
This. |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| How much debt … on 10:22 - Mar 15 with 1628 views | ARQS |
This is a good thread and raises something I don't understand in the whole 'he hasn't been backed' argument.
Obviously January was an absolute mess and obviously the owners have made massive mistakes. However... if we'd spent £1m in January, would these people be happy? Probably not. Would we be that much better off? Probably not.
If we'd spent £2-3m in transfer fees in January would we really be much better off? If you are spending £2-3m in January then the reality is we would be expecting to have got into the playoffs and had a good chance of winning them. We look 8 or 9 players away from that at the moment.
The keeper question - what sort of keeper should we have signed? A number one permanently when we already have two other keepers here? An expensive loanee to sit on the bench? An expensive loanee to start - if so what does that say about Martin's judgment of a player in Fisher?
If your £400k, £10k a week keeper can't even be trusted to provide cover for a few months then there are serious issues. Especially when the bloke who signed him had worked with him previously. Stuck with him now for another 3 years or whatever.
£1.3m centre half on big wages... can't get a game. And when he does he plays out of position. Again, worked with him previously.
If anything, our fans should be thankful that the board didn't let Martin waste another penny in January because we are going to need all of it come the summer. | | | |
| How much debt … on 10:26 - Mar 15 with 1627 views | ARQS |
| How much debt … on 21:33 - Mar 13 by max936 |
Is Martin responsible for all the players that have been signed over his tenure though, I'm not convinced that he is, especially the loan signings, the players he has brought here haven't hit the mark though, that's for sure, Downes apart, assuming that was his decision of course. [Post edited 13 Mar 2023 21:43]
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You would think he was responsible for Fisher, Darling and Sorinola.
I would also argue that given the fact he doesn't pick players he clearly didn't want, the fact that Nathan Wood starts virtually every single game, he probably wanted to sign him too.
Those 4 in themselves should be enough to condemn him to the Job Centre. [Post edited 15 Mar 2023 10:27]
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| How much debt … on 11:59 - Mar 15 with 1595 views | max936 |
| How much debt … on 10:26 - Mar 15 by ARQS |
You would think he was responsible for Fisher, Darling and Sorinola.
I would also argue that given the fact he doesn't pick players he clearly didn't want, the fact that Nathan Wood starts virtually every single game, he probably wanted to sign him too.
Those 4 in themselves should be enough to condemn him to the Job Centre. [Post edited 15 Mar 2023 10:27]
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Agreed on those yes, I'd cut Darling a little bit more slack though, there's a player in him, could be wrong though, but under a manager who has a clue on how to setup a defensive unit he could be excellent.
Feel strange saying that regarding a manager, seeing as Martin was an "International" defender and a centre half at that, its remarkable as to how clueless he and his "set piece" coach are. | |
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