| O'Connell 08:31 - Mar 2 with 11214 views | Dale2017 |
Can I just get other posters thoughts on EOC.
I've grown increasingly frustrated with our captains attitude the last few months. During the games he acts like a petulant child if he doesn't get the ball off the keeper, takes zero accountability if one of his long balls goes astray and looks to blame everybody else. Plus has no respect for the fans. He never acknowledges the fans at the end of the game for their support and is always the first down the tunnel.
At the Carlisle game last night he came nowhere near the away end.
I've always thought a captain should lead by example but I just think since BBM left shortly after EOC signed his new deal, he's not wanted to be at the club |  | | |  |
| O'Connell on 17:02 - Mar 3 with 3822 views | electricblue |
| O'Connell on 15:59 - Mar 3 by samueloneils |
Can anyone explain to me the advantages of zonal markings please?
I have watched football at all levels for over half a century and still have not seen it work consistently enough to justify its usage- at any level.
I can see its use for inexperienced defenders or those who are otherwise unreliable, such as ball-watchers.
To me, onrushing attackers of height and power always have an advantage over a "fixed" defender. who will usually be slower to get high to defend a dead ball. Likewise it is much easier to create a mismatch by targetting a smaller defender.
We have seen many examples of this tactic used against us this season in particular.
What am I missing? |
The advantages zonal marking is a better system if the defending player is supported by a midfielder or a WB is being used.
Zonal marking is basically  a defensive strategy where the defenders cover an area rather than marking an opponent.....
But like i said other players need to come in the play for support.......
Thats the way i see it.........
Could be wrong though... [Post edited 3 Mar 2022 17:03]
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| My all time favourite Dale player Mr Lyndon Symmonds |
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| O'Connell on 21:28 - Mar 3 with 3611 views | Brierls |
| O'Connell on 09:49 - Mar 2 by ChaffRAFC |
Thought O'Connell played well last night and tried to get forward and link up play as much as possible. He's been a fantastic asset to us and I don't buy into this attitude that he's not up for it at all. I feel sorry for him having to play next to Dorsett on one side and Taylor on the other. I don't think he's the ideal captain by any means but he's a wonderful player who should be regarded as one of our better centre backs of the last 20 years. |
Retweet.
The perceived ‘attitude problem’ is complete bollocks. He had a few poor games, a drop in form that everybody has.
O’Connell often tries to do too much with the ball because of the lack of quality in front of him. I wish he didn’t, but if he really didn’t care then he wouldn’t bother his arse to get on the ball and try and move us forward. |  | | |
| O'Connell on 07:58 - Mar 4 with 3408 views | isitme |
| O'Connell on 15:59 - Mar 3 by samueloneils |
Can anyone explain to me the advantages of zonal markings please?
I have watched football at all levels for over half a century and still have not seen it work consistently enough to justify its usage- at any level.
I can see its use for inexperienced defenders or those who are otherwise unreliable, such as ball-watchers.
To me, onrushing attackers of height and power always have an advantage over a "fixed" defender. who will usually be slower to get high to defend a dead ball. Likewise it is much easier to create a mismatch by targetting a smaller defender.
We have seen many examples of this tactic used against us this season in particular.
What am I missing? |
Zonal marking where? In general play or set pieces? Every team will use predominately zonal and occasionally man to man marking in general play. One of the first things any professional team will do in training is where to position themselves when the ball is in a specific area of the pitch, which would be classed as their general team shape, which is different for each team. Some teams such as Liverpool who press higher and faster players would be in different areas of the pitch compared to a team who would sit back and play a basketball style 'half court press' even though the opposition may have the ball in the same place . When an opposition player enters a 'zone' they will get pressed/marked by the player who is responsible for this area of the pitch.
Very rarely will a player directly mark a specific player in general play, although wide players will generally end up in zones filled by full backs which will naturally see more engagements between these players. On occasions centre backs may look to play man to man, but even that may just be from goal kicks if there is a significant height difference.
Again at set pieces most teams adopt an approach that will contain at least some zonal elements. Every team has a player at the front post for the under hit corner and at least one player covering the edge of the box. Many teams will then go man to man on a height or heading ability basis. Others (like us this season) will have their best headers in specific spots in the area who try to head the ball away if it arrives in their 'zone'. Both heavy zonal and heavy man approaches to defending corners have their merits. I agree about the onrushing attacker having an advantage when defending corners zonally, but allegedly it reduces the amount of free headers which can be caused by man to man marking? I think sometimes teams ship a lot of goals using one method and then use the other, still concede from set pieces and go back to what they did initially!
Sorry that without pictures some of the descriptions may be a bit abstract. Zonal Marking by Michael Cox is a really interesting book about football tactics and there are plenty of others about as well which do a better job than I can. |  | | |
| O'Connell on 07:58 - Mar 4 with 3408 views | EllDale |
I think that it’s significant that we’re only having this debate after the arrival of Ball who is an obvious alternative as captain.
Before that Morley had worn the armband a few times but there are precious few other candidates.
Most of the other members of the squad aren’t even 100% certain to play every week.
I admire O’Connell’s availability; he’s made over 100 appearances in less than three seasons.
He missed the match at Old Trafford after coming off at Fleetwood and Swiss Army Jimmy had to deputise at centre back for the big game.
I suspect that he’s immensely frustrated at having to marshall this defence at times and, from what I see in the Sandy, he does an awful lot of talking but in a quiet way.
We’ll miss him when he’s gone. | | | |
| O'Connell on 12:25 - Mar 4 with 3228 views | onedalefan |
| O'Connell on 07:58 - Mar 4 by isitme |
Zonal marking where? In general play or set pieces? Every team will use predominately zonal and occasionally man to man marking in general play. One of the first things any professional team will do in training is where to position themselves when the ball is in a specific area of the pitch, which would be classed as their general team shape, which is different for each team. Some teams such as Liverpool who press higher and faster players would be in different areas of the pitch compared to a team who would sit back and play a basketball style 'half court press' even though the opposition may have the ball in the same place . When an opposition player enters a 'zone' they will get pressed/marked by the player who is responsible for this area of the pitch.
Very rarely will a player directly mark a specific player in general play, although wide players will generally end up in zones filled by full backs which will naturally see more engagements between these players. On occasions centre backs may look to play man to man, but even that may just be from goal kicks if there is a significant height difference.
Again at set pieces most teams adopt an approach that will contain at least some zonal elements. Every team has a player at the front post for the under hit corner and at least one player covering the edge of the box. Many teams will then go man to man on a height or heading ability basis. Others (like us this season) will have their best headers in specific spots in the area who try to head the ball away if it arrives in their 'zone'. Both heavy zonal and heavy man approaches to defending corners have their merits. I agree about the onrushing attacker having an advantage when defending corners zonally, but allegedly it reduces the amount of free headers which can be caused by man to man marking? I think sometimes teams ship a lot of goals using one method and then use the other, still concede from set pieces and go back to what they did initially!
Sorry that without pictures some of the descriptions may be a bit abstract. Zonal Marking by Michael Cox is a really interesting book about football tactics and there are plenty of others about as well which do a better job than I can. |
We have been using zonal marking for corners all year with 4 or 5 players lined up across the 6 yard line. |  | | |
| O'Connell on 22:15 - Mar 29 with 2853 views | Dale2017 |
Great result tonight but I was a tad disappointed in our captains attitude again. I know quite a lot in the sandy felt the same as I heard a few boos. There clearly is an issue there if he's refusing to show any form of acknowledgement towards the fans, especially after the reception he got when he was subbed and at the end of the game. | | | |
| O'Connell on 22:51 - Mar 29 with 2671 views | pioneer |
| O'Connell on 22:15 - Mar 29 by Dale2017 |
Great result tonight but I was a tad disappointed in our captains attitude again. I know quite a lot in the sandy felt the same as I heard a few boos. There clearly is an issue there if he's refusing to show any form of acknowledgement towards the fans, especially after the reception he got when he was subbed and at the end of the game. |
Am I missing something? We get a long awaited and much needed win against a team in top form that does much to secure our league status and some folks boo one of our own players? | | | |
| O'Connell on 22:56 - Mar 29 with 2636 views | Dale2017 |
| O'Connell on 22:51 - Mar 29 by pioneer |
Am I missing something? We get a long awaited and much needed win against a team in top form that does much to secure our league status and some folks boo one of our own players? |
I think some people were frustrated that he got a great reception and he didn't acknowledge it or recognise the fans for what was great support by the fans | | | |
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| O'Connell on 09:57 - Mar 30 with 2318 views | AtThePeake |
| O'Connell on 22:56 - Mar 29 by Dale2017 |
I think some people were frustrated that he got a great reception and he didn't acknowledge it or recognise the fans for what was great support by the fans |
Great support? A bit of applause from the people who have been going on for weeks and weeks about how he doesn't care and has a bad attitude and doesn't deserve the captaincy? I honestly don't blame him for not acknowledging us. But more pertinently, who cares? The important thing is that he did his job last night.
It'll be best for all parties when he leaves in the summer but he's one of the best centre-backs we've had in recent times and one of the most under-appreciated players I remember wearing a Dale shirt. |  |
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| O'Connell on 10:26 - Mar 30 with 2256 views | BucketBstard |
I thought he did really well last night. I even liked the way , he stood in the way of players like Feeny when they were squaring up to our younger ones. Also "protected " Kelly just before the spot kick , by getting inbetween him and a defender obviously trying to pysche him out.
Some good passes as well. He is obvioulsy one of those players that maybe doesnt feel right with applauding fans , after maybe another loss , he could be disappointed. I dont mind if he continues like he did last night, thought he was a good leader last night. | | | |
| O'Connell on 10:39 - Mar 30 with 2215 views | DaleiLama |
| O'Connell on 09:57 - Mar 30 by AtThePeake |
Great support? A bit of applause from the people who have been going on for weeks and weeks about how he doesn't care and has a bad attitude and doesn't deserve the captaincy? I honestly don't blame him for not acknowledging us. But more pertinently, who cares? The important thing is that he did his job last night.
It'll be best for all parties when he leaves in the summer but he's one of the best centre-backs we've had in recent times and one of the most under-appreciated players I remember wearing a Dale shirt. |
My motm last night, with Jeriel a close second and Grant for the bronze. But what do I know? |  |
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| O'Connell on 11:08 - Mar 30 with 2125 views | kel |
| O'Connell on 10:26 - Mar 30 by BucketBstard |
I thought he did really well last night. I even liked the way , he stood in the way of players like Feeny when they were squaring up to our younger ones. Also "protected " Kelly just before the spot kick , by getting inbetween him and a defender obviously trying to pysche him out.
Some good passes as well. He is obvioulsy one of those players that maybe doesnt feel right with applauding fans , after maybe another loss , he could be disappointed. I dont mind if he continues like he did last night, thought he was a good leader last night. |
You feeling ok?
Seriously though, he was class last night and had their attackers in his pocket. I’ll say it again, we’re a better side with him in it than out of it. |  | | |
| O'Connell on 11:24 - Mar 30 with 2075 views | finberty |
| O'Connell on 11:08 - Mar 30 by kel |
You feeling ok?
Seriously though, he was class last night and had their attackers in his pocket. I’ll say it again, we’re a better side with him in it than out of it. |
Agree with that. And anything EOC didn't do, our other man Jerry Dorsey snaffled with a good amount of physicality. It was a good all round performance. |  | | |
| O'Connell on 11:30 - Mar 30 with 2039 views | Dale2017 |
| O'Connell on 09:57 - Mar 30 by AtThePeake |
Great support? A bit of applause from the people who have been going on for weeks and weeks about how he doesn't care and has a bad attitude and doesn't deserve the captaincy? I honestly don't blame him for not acknowledging us. But more pertinently, who cares? The important thing is that he did his job last night.
It'll be best for all parties when he leaves in the summer but he's one of the best centre-backs we've had in recent times and one of the most under-appreciated players I remember wearing a Dale shirt. |
I meant great support throughout the game, didn't mean that specific moment in particular, appreciate that wasn't great wording on my part.
I get people will have differing views on this and its not the most significant of subjects. Personally I like to see a captain be the shining example to the rest of the team on the pitch with their performances, which he is doing csnt knock that at all. But also away from their performances and how they conduct themselves. Fans pay a lot of money following the Dale and thats even tougher in the current climate and supported the team during the games despite the lacklustre performances. I don't think it's too much that a player comes over and acknowledge that. But like I said that's each to their own and i know some people won't give a toss about it | | | |
| O'Connell on 11:39 - Mar 30 with 2014 views | HullDale |
Regardless of any acknowledgement to the fans (FWIW I think they should, but won't lose sleep if they don't), I commented to a mate that there was a clear change of approach from O'Connell last night.
He went over & applauded Lynch for every save, high fived others when they had done well defensively, had his arm round a couple of players talking to them and cajoling them, was Kelly's bodyguard before the penalty, stood up to the bigger Carlisle lads when they were trying to intimidate our younger lads and a few other bits.
I've questioned his captaincy style a couple of times over the season, and haven't been a fan of what I've interpreted as frustrated rollickings rather than constructive leadership, but I thought last night his captaincy matched his performance.
Hopefully he is fit for Saturday... EOC doing what he did last night alongside Downing's constant coaching too would be a very useful combination for the run in. |  | | |
| O'Connell on 11:55 - Mar 30 with 1953 views | finberty |
Not quite on topic but I noted Big Jim on the touchline giving constant encouragement as the game wore on, and when he made his unexpected cameo he was constantly clapping encouragement to his team mates on the field (as did Dooley), and his headers found their target.
I was also encouraged by Lynch's action in grappling with the Carlisle forward at one point. Maybe not wise, but it did indicate a focus and determination. He also demonstrated some astute tactics when delaying each kick. Normally we would oppose this from other teams, but when you're staring at the abyss and your players seem clued-in, it all helped. | | | |
| O'Connell on 13:28 - Mar 30 with 1750 views | samueloneils |
If EOC is out for the next few games I think then we will see his contribution to the team. He has carried the defence all season without support until Downing came and has helped Dorsett become a much improved player at the back. Remember Graham and Dorsett when they first arrived?
Also he has managed to avoid suspension (just) and has only missed 1 league game.
51 goals conceded from 39 league games aint bad for a team with little up front after Beesley ,and an unsettled keeper situation.
If he goes he will be greatly missed. Fine player. | | | |
| O'Connell on 13:37 - Mar 30 with 1704 views | jonahwhereru |
Big Jim has always been fantastic when it come to acknowledging the crowd after a game, O’Connell not so much. It’s nice that Jim has that attitude towards the fans, but it should not to Bonsey’s detriment that he isn’t enthusiastic in sharing the love with fans. | | | |
| O'Connell on 16:31 - Mar 30 with 1469 views | 49thseason |
| O'Connell on 11:55 - Mar 30 by finberty |
Not quite on topic but I noted Big Jim on the touchline giving constant encouragement as the game wore on, and when he made his unexpected cameo he was constantly clapping encouragement to his team mates on the field (as did Dooley), and his headers found their target.
I was also encouraged by Lynch's action in grappling with the Carlisle forward at one point. Maybe not wise, but it did indicate a focus and determination. He also demonstrated some astute tactics when delaying each kick. Normally we would oppose this from other teams, but when you're staring at the abyss and your players seem clued-in, it all helped. |
Well said, last night was a genuine " team" effort, the kids seemed to have suddenly become men and discovered something about the expectations of professional sport. Maybe the Manager has learned something about managing too. It felt like a turning point, we just have to hope that they are ready to go again on Saturday. |  | | |
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