| Tougher Border Controls 21:50 - Aug 2 with 12938 views | easthertsr |
The front page of the Daily Fail today complaining of tourists stuck by tougher controls by customs officials is pretty damn ironic in that that is exactly what they have been banging on about for the last two years! [Post edited 2 Aug 2017 21:51]
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| Tougher Border Controls on 10:55 - Aug 3 with 2585 views | Phildo |
Really? I thought she was all for permitting access to men from the middle east? |  | | |
| Tougher Border Controls on 11:25 - Aug 3 with 2545 views | izlingtonhoop |
| Tougher Border Controls on 09:21 - Aug 3 by Northernr |
I don't know enough about it but I assumed the budget airlines got charged less by the airports for landing at less busy times - hence five or six RyanAir flights coming into Stansted at 1 in the morning every night. |
What I had assumed. |  | | |
| Tougher Border Controls on 11:32 - Aug 3 with 2528 views | izlingtonhoop |
| Tougher Border Controls on 10:31 - Aug 3 by EastR |
Tip for anyone travelling to the US - consider going via Dublin and go through US preclearance there. Much more civilised experience and you go though as a domestic passenger at the other end. |
Be intersted to know if this actually saves any time door-to-door. Changing planes and cleaning immigration in Dublin is gonna take a good deal of time.
I'm posting this from mallorca, en route to airport. [Post edited 3 Aug 2017 13:18]
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| Tougher Border Controls on 11:56 - Aug 3 with 2490 views | CliveWilsonSaid |
| Tougher Border Controls on 07:45 - Aug 3 by Northernr |
Whatever your reasons for voting leave, tougher border controls were an obvious consequence of it.
These delays aren't due to Brexit, but they will become the norm for Brits once it has happened and they are exactly what the Mail has been campaigning for for years. The Mail says, repeatedly, that Schengen is a security threat, now they tighten it up slightly and it's branded "a shambles".
Reading the article it's difficult not to form the impression that what they actually meant when they asked for tougher border controls is all the brown and yellow people from Eastern Europe should be interrogated and sent back, but the fine upstanding white people of middle England should still be allowed to waltz straight through, swatting the gate officials aside with their lovely blue passports as they go. |
Agreed. Don't worry you won't find me arguing in favour of the Daily Mail! |  |
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| Tougher Border Controls on 12:17 - Aug 3 with 2458 views | spencer |
I work in Dover. I never wanted to join EU back in 1993 - as I lost 90% of my business. Built it up again and when Romania joined, lost another huge chunk.
I have many friends who work in Dover Customs/Border control, Euro Tunnel, but, better than that...my daughter works for Border force in Calais.
The stories you do not hear about what happens in the tunnel, in Calais with people trying to get into this country, would take me all day to write. Border Force are stretched to the full and often working under staffed, which doesn't help delays. Recruitment is slow.
I voted leave - purely as I remembered life down here pre 1993. I was financially better off and it was a nicer place to live. The government has no idea what is going to happen post Brexit in our industry....6 meetings in and they haven.t a clue
I am quite happy to have delays if it means tighter controls.
I am also happier to have delays at airports , if I am searched more rigorously.
I had a moan it 1993 - and before, but accepted the democratic vote of the country.
Had it voted in this time, I would have moaned again, but just got on and accepted the decision of the majority. [Post edited 3 Aug 2017 12:18]
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| Tougher Border Controls on 12:27 - Aug 3 with 2439 views | MedwayR |
As far as I can see this is just more showmanship from the EU. This is a response (the price of security in their words) to the attacks in Belguim & France, which ironically were carried out by citizens from within the Schengen zone if I recall correctly, they're going to have tighter controls on people coming into the Schengen zone. So there's very little evidence as far as I can see that they're improving security but this search for a non-existent needle in a haystack makes them look as though they're doing something and shifts the focus from the flaws of the Schengen zone which allows people including terrorists to travel without checks rather than actually deal with real problems that exist in Europe such as weak economies or the immigrant/refugee crisis in Europe which has been ongoing for years now and still the EU do nothing while southern European countries struggle to deal with the people smugglers and arrival of so many people on their shores. This has nothing to do with Brexit and impacts on everyone except those from within the Schengen zone, so those that actually carried out those attacks still wouldn't be picked up by these checks. |  |
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| Tougher Border Controls on 12:53 - Aug 3 with 2400 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| Tougher Border Controls on 07:41 - Aug 3 by Northernr |
While that is true, when I fly to the US for work they want to know what work, what it entails, how long I'm staying, how often I come, where I'm staying, if I've got return flights booked, and they want to know that of everybody else in the queue which is why we stand there two hours. When I fly to Nice, they make sure the bloke in the picture looks a bit like me and that's it, which is why we stand there for 10 minutes. |
Clive, two points:
1. In my experience, the US has been like that since I first touched its soil in 1991. Of course, I'll grant you that since 12th September 2001 things have got a tad more challenging, but they were never easy and,
2. France has tightened controls up following Charlie Hebdo and, unless I am mistaken, temporary measures suspending Shenghen remain in place. In 2015 pulling into Gare du Lyon on a domestic train journey, foreigners (by that I mean people of noticeably MENA extraction) were subjected to US style questioning. Indeed, having landed there in June, checks were noticeably more involved.
The reason you experience effortless entry into France mon ami, is because you look like Macron!!
I suspect if you turned up with a ropey looking considerably older woman than yourself next time, they'll have a band playing the National Anthem for you and a car ready and waiting outside for you....you can thank me later!! [Post edited 3 Aug 2017 13:05]
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| Tougher Border Controls on 13:36 - Aug 3 with 2351 views | StraightR |
| Tougher Border Controls on 11:32 - Aug 3 by izlingtonhoop |
Be intersted to know if this actually saves any time door-to-door. Changing planes and cleaning immigration in Dublin is gonna take a good deal of time.
I'm posting this from mallorca, en route to airport. [Post edited 3 Aug 2017 13:18]
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It’s probably a bit longer, I didn’t time it. Maybe I was lucky as the plane change and baggage transfer went very smoothly. I was on Aer Lingus for both legs of the flight, which may make a difference — it might be more difficult if you were transferring to a US carrier. I agree with EastR that it was a more civilised experience with the US authorities in Dublin than I have experienced on previous trips clearing customs and immigration at US ports of entry. I should probably also say that the week after the referendum I registered for Irish citizenship (my maternal grandparents were Irish) and obtained an Irish passport.
You can also do US pre-clearance at Shannon. I believe it’s one of the selling points of BA’s ‘super premium’ service from London City to JFK. |  | | |
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| Tougher Border Controls on 14:03 - Aug 3 with 2310 views | Brightonhoop |
| Tougher Border Controls on 12:27 - Aug 3 by MedwayR |
As far as I can see this is just more showmanship from the EU. This is a response (the price of security in their words) to the attacks in Belguim & France, which ironically were carried out by citizens from within the Schengen zone if I recall correctly, they're going to have tighter controls on people coming into the Schengen zone. So there's very little evidence as far as I can see that they're improving security but this search for a non-existent needle in a haystack makes them look as though they're doing something and shifts the focus from the flaws of the Schengen zone which allows people including terrorists to travel without checks rather than actually deal with real problems that exist in Europe such as weak economies or the immigrant/refugee crisis in Europe which has been ongoing for years now and still the EU do nothing while southern European countries struggle to deal with the people smugglers and arrival of so many people on their shores. This has nothing to do with Brexit and impacts on everyone except those from within the Schengen zone, so those that actually carried out those attacks still wouldn't be picked up by these checks. |
Not digging you out by the way, however, several attackers came in directly from Syria, some were homegrown.
And southern Europe is not over run as a whole, Italy is, in part due to the chaos in Libya after the Yanks supported the killing of Gadafi that has made Libya lawless. Same as Iraq and Saddam.
Spain, for examle, has excellent working relations with Morrocco and via its north African enclaves, has seen less than 200 illegal entries into Europe in the last 12 months.
The point being you can achieve more through co-operation and intelligence working with good relations than bombing the fck out of people and places and turning inwards and isolating yourself.
And if the EU did not tighten checks re Schengen the Daily Mail et al would surely have an anurism when the next attack comes. So they cant win, but they have an absolute duty to keep us all as safe as possible. |  | | |
| Tougher Border Controls on 14:14 - Aug 3 with 2290 views | Metallica_Hoop |
I voted leave to stop the creation of a latter day Soviet Union.
I even mentioned this in a Freston society debate in the 6th form around 1994/5 not long after Maastrict. Before summing up with a with a quote from Pantera's 'walk' delivered Anselmo style.
I haven't changed my mind.
If anything with the commissions obsession with 'More Europe' I've been proved correct. |  |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| Tougher Border Controls on 15:04 - Aug 3 with 2220 views | RamseyR |
| Tougher Border Controls on 10:36 - Aug 3 by toboboly |
Although this is down to staffing levels rather than anything else.
Nowt to do with UK or Brexit. |
100% accurate.
It's all about matching resource to demand. If the checks increase then resources should increase in tandem so the customer experience is not significantly impacted.
We see similar in every supermarket up and down the land. More resources at peak times and minor adjustments constantly to staffing levels at the checkouts throughout the day to match demand.
Whilst there is the odd blip or poor management locally, if supermarkets can get it to work, it should be equally as easy for airports.
Airports even had the added bonus of knowing how many flights will be landing in approx one hours time, so have all the info to hand to match resources. [Post edited 3 Aug 2017 15:06]
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| Tougher Border Controls on 15:06 - Aug 3 with 2218 views | Northernr |
| Tougher Border Controls on 15:04 - Aug 3 by RamseyR |
100% accurate.
It's all about matching resource to demand. If the checks increase then resources should increase in tandem so the customer experience is not significantly impacted.
We see similar in every supermarket up and down the land. More resources at peak times and minor adjustments constantly to staffing levels at the checkouts throughout the day to match demand.
Whilst there is the odd blip or poor management locally, if supermarkets can get it to work, it should be equally as easy for airports.
Airports even had the added bonus of knowing how many flights will be landing in approx one hours time, so have all the info to hand to match resources. [Post edited 3 Aug 2017 15:06]
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"If the checks increase then resources should increase in tandem so the customer experience is not significantly impacted."
You've more chance of Burton winning our league this season than that happening with border services. They'll continue to operate with as few people and resources as they can possibly get away with under the "no magic money tree (unless we need some money quick)" policy. |  | | |
| Tougher Border Controls on 15:11 - Aug 3 with 2211 views | hopphoops |
Going through Heathrow after the Cisse goal match, a very stern looking customs officer stopped Mrs Hopp who was wearing a Loftus Road badge, and demanded to know if she had been to the match, and whether she had contravened the law by invading the pitch.
I might have, she replied sheepishly. "Good girl!" he beamed.
That's the kind of border control I like. |  |
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| Tougher Border Controls on 15:17 - Aug 3 with 2202 views | MedwayR |
| Tougher Border Controls on 14:03 - Aug 3 by Brightonhoop |
Not digging you out by the way, however, several attackers came in directly from Syria, some were homegrown.
And southern Europe is not over run as a whole, Italy is, in part due to the chaos in Libya after the Yanks supported the killing of Gadafi that has made Libya lawless. Same as Iraq and Saddam.
Spain, for examle, has excellent working relations with Morrocco and via its north African enclaves, has seen less than 200 illegal entries into Europe in the last 12 months.
The point being you can achieve more through co-operation and intelligence working with good relations than bombing the fck out of people and places and turning inwards and isolating yourself.
And if the EU did not tighten checks re Schengen the Daily Mail et al would surely have an anurism when the next attack comes. So they cant win, but they have an absolute duty to keep us all as safe as possible. |
No worries, I don't feel that you've dug me out at all, particularly given the sensible and fair manner of your post.
If some of the attackers came directly from Syria would these new checks have identified them as a threat, why are the new checks so different from previous checks and were those attackers previously known to be threats. These new checks still wouldn't have stopped the homegrown terrorists.
"but they have an absolute duty to keep us all as safe as possible."
If the Schengen zone didn't exist terrorists would find it a lot harder to travel between countries, Belguim and France for example, to carry out attacks. Therefore for the EU to carry out their duty to keep us all as safe as possible they'd get rid of the Schengen zone.
Obviously they'd never do this and I wouldn't support doing it because we can't live our lives constantly worrying about terrorism the same as no one should live their lives worrying about whatever rubbish the Daily Mail etc are spouting. But the checks that the EU have brought in seem to be doing exactly that which I don't agree with, plus I don't think these checks are going to be effective in fighting terrorism so are pointless and typical of the EU trying to look as though they're doing something rather than actually doing something. | |
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| Tougher Border Controls on 15:33 - Aug 3 with 2176 views | RamseyR |
| Tougher Border Controls on 15:06 - Aug 3 by Northernr |
"If the checks increase then resources should increase in tandem so the customer experience is not significantly impacted."
You've more chance of Burton winning our league this season than that happening with border services. They'll continue to operate with as few people and resources as they can possibly get away with under the "no magic money tree (unless we need some money quick)" policy. |
In defence...I did say "should"...but I don't expect it to happen anytime soon.
It was a more of a comparison between how the private sector and public sector treat "customers".
Only those chasing profit seem to worry about customer service, not withstanding large parts of the private sector, having abandoned any pretence of customer service in the last decade. (energy, phone, broadband etc).
There are large parts of the private sector that do put an unbelievable amount of effort into matching resource to demand. I talk with some experience having had a large part in managing this for a £6bn UK business over 300 sites. If the airports put in a fraction of this effort, the issue would virtually disappear. Not holding my breath though. | | | |
| Tougher Border Controls on 15:38 - Aug 3 with 2169 views | kensalriser |
| Tougher Border Controls on 14:14 - Aug 3 by Metallica_Hoop |
I voted leave to stop the creation of a latter day Soviet Union.
I even mentioned this in a Freston society debate in the 6th form around 1994/5 not long after Maastrict. Before summing up with a with a quote from Pantera's 'walk' delivered Anselmo style.
I haven't changed my mind.
If anything with the commissions obsession with 'More Europe' I've been proved correct. |
Comparing the EU with the Soviet Union is laughably asinine, as you well know. Stop attempting to be stupid. [Post edited 3 Aug 2017 15:38]
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| Tougher Border Controls on 15:44 - Aug 3 with 2157 views | izlingtonhoop |
| Tougher Border Controls on 11:32 - Aug 3 by izlingtonhoop |
Be intersted to know if this actually saves any time door-to-door. Changing planes and cleaning immigration in Dublin is gonna take a good deal of time.
I'm posting this from mallorca, en route to airport. [Post edited 3 Aug 2017 13:18]
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Three minutes at passport control.
All is well. | | | |
| Tougher Border Controls on 15:55 - Aug 3 with 2146 views | Boston |
You know we travelled frequently and easily all over Europe and the Globe before joining the EU. There'll always be good reasons for hold ups, but petty small mindedness is not one of them. | |
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| Tougher Border Controls on 16:02 - Aug 3 with 2130 views | derbyhoop |
| Tougher Border Controls on 15:17 - Aug 3 by MedwayR |
No worries, I don't feel that you've dug me out at all, particularly given the sensible and fair manner of your post.
If some of the attackers came directly from Syria would these new checks have identified them as a threat, why are the new checks so different from previous checks and were those attackers previously known to be threats. These new checks still wouldn't have stopped the homegrown terrorists.
"but they have an absolute duty to keep us all as safe as possible."
If the Schengen zone didn't exist terrorists would find it a lot harder to travel between countries, Belguim and France for example, to carry out attacks. Therefore for the EU to carry out their duty to keep us all as safe as possible they'd get rid of the Schengen zone.
Obviously they'd never do this and I wouldn't support doing it because we can't live our lives constantly worrying about terrorism the same as no one should live their lives worrying about whatever rubbish the Daily Mail etc are spouting. But the checks that the EU have brought in seem to be doing exactly that which I don't agree with, plus I don't think these checks are going to be effective in fighting terrorism so are pointless and typical of the EU trying to look as though they're doing something rather than actually doing something. |
Got to contradict you about security and Schengen. Part of the current delays are due to officials checking personnel against info held on the Schengen databases. |  |
| "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the Earth all one's lifetime." (Mark Twain)
Find me on twitter @derbyhoop and now on Bluesky |
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| Tougher Border Controls on 16:04 - Aug 3 with 2123 views | BostonR |
| Tougher Border Controls on 10:50 - Aug 3 by Northernr |
Interesting, cheers. |
I have tried it but I am not a fan of Aer Lingus. BA do a stopover in Shannon on their NY service from City Airport if you have £3K to spare. |  | | |
| Tougher Border Controls on 16:08 - Aug 3 with 2111 views | Brightonhoop |
| Tougher Border Controls on 15:17 - Aug 3 by MedwayR |
No worries, I don't feel that you've dug me out at all, particularly given the sensible and fair manner of your post.
If some of the attackers came directly from Syria would these new checks have identified them as a threat, why are the new checks so different from previous checks and were those attackers previously known to be threats. These new checks still wouldn't have stopped the homegrown terrorists.
"but they have an absolute duty to keep us all as safe as possible."
If the Schengen zone didn't exist terrorists would find it a lot harder to travel between countries, Belguim and France for example, to carry out attacks. Therefore for the EU to carry out their duty to keep us all as safe as possible they'd get rid of the Schengen zone.
Obviously they'd never do this and I wouldn't support doing it because we can't live our lives constantly worrying about terrorism the same as no one should live their lives worrying about whatever rubbish the Daily Mail etc are spouting. But the checks that the EU have brought in seem to be doing exactly that which I don't agree with, plus I don't think these checks are going to be effective in fighting terrorism so are pointless and typical of the EU trying to look as though they're doing something rather than actually doing something. |
Nice one.
Agreed, there is a degree of window dressing going on. It's a difficult balance I think, between a clear and present danger both external and home grown plus the deteriorating Irish Peace Agreement, against 500 million people across the EU panicking unnecessarily. So no easy task.
On Schengen, big business and corporations will never allow it to be rolled back, I remember commentators post Maastricht observing business was the big winner on Freedom of Movement on people and goods, the converged currencies to the single Euro were very much part of a vision of Europe under one Government and Army, to compete with the US. Which looking back seems mad as a bag of frogs.
So we've got to make the best of a bad fist, it's the semantics of it now that are argued about. I'd prioritise the calibre of politicians, we've got to do better than Junker and May, we've found the bottom of the barrel so time to progress. All I would say now on Brexit is after 12 months since the Ref, they still have not concluded the fates of EU citizens in the UK or for those Brits like me in the EU, that's millions of people in limbo. And the reprobates have gon on paid holiday for 3 months. I'd simply say there are no more pay cheques or expenses until we've got a decision. 12 months with nothing achieved and no plan.
The other political problem is policy, specifically Audsterity. And where vital services and resources need to be upheld within a frame work of belt tightening, where police are cut so radically everyone fears riots because we know the resources to quell them don't exist anymore, and wh the NHS is at breaking point. But the maturity to have crucial dialogue and debates on issues of adequately funding not just border control and Shengen buut resourcing Security Services to be able to monitor the free movement of goods and people because that is how the guns are getting through from the Balkans into the EU. As well as external, trained and dangerous terrorists. We can't do both, cut to the bone and have reliable pro-active security and policing. I guarantee in six months from now the NHS will be in crisis again because 6 months ahead of winter it won't be properly resourced. But there's no place for planning just insane mantras and dictate of Austerity that have not worked in 7 years, and won't work in another 7 years either.
Absurd when May can dig out two Billion for the DUP at a moments notice to keep the Tories in Government. Clearly the money is there but not for the benefit of security, policing or the NHS. Time for Regime Change. [Post edited 3 Aug 2017 16:16]
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| Tougher Border Controls on 16:24 - Aug 3 with 2096 views | Metallica_Hoop |
| Tougher Border Controls on 15:38 - Aug 3 by kensalriser |
Comparing the EU with the Soviet Union is laughably asinine, as you well know. Stop attempting to be stupid. [Post edited 3 Aug 2017 15:38]
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I said going not is.
Anyway that's my opinion understood? If you don't like it tough. | |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| Tougher Border Controls on 17:00 - Aug 3 with 2042 views | eastside_r |
| Tougher Border Controls on 16:04 - Aug 3 by BostonR |
I have tried it but I am not a fan of Aer Lingus. BA do a stopover in Shannon on their NY service from City Airport if you have £3K to spare. |
Is that the one out of London City? That one is definitely aimed at the 'business' market. |  | | |
| Tougher Border Controls on 18:08 - Aug 3 with 1976 views | Boston |
| Tougher Border Controls on 16:08 - Aug 3 by Brightonhoop |
Nice one.
Agreed, there is a degree of window dressing going on. It's a difficult balance I think, between a clear and present danger both external and home grown plus the deteriorating Irish Peace Agreement, against 500 million people across the EU panicking unnecessarily. So no easy task.
On Schengen, big business and corporations will never allow it to be rolled back, I remember commentators post Maastricht observing business was the big winner on Freedom of Movement on people and goods, the converged currencies to the single Euro were very much part of a vision of Europe under one Government and Army, to compete with the US. Which looking back seems mad as a bag of frogs.
So we've got to make the best of a bad fist, it's the semantics of it now that are argued about. I'd prioritise the calibre of politicians, we've got to do better than Junker and May, we've found the bottom of the barrel so time to progress. All I would say now on Brexit is after 12 months since the Ref, they still have not concluded the fates of EU citizens in the UK or for those Brits like me in the EU, that's millions of people in limbo. And the reprobates have gon on paid holiday for 3 months. I'd simply say there are no more pay cheques or expenses until we've got a decision. 12 months with nothing achieved and no plan.
The other political problem is policy, specifically Audsterity. And where vital services and resources need to be upheld within a frame work of belt tightening, where police are cut so radically everyone fears riots because we know the resources to quell them don't exist anymore, and wh the NHS is at breaking point. But the maturity to have crucial dialogue and debates on issues of adequately funding not just border control and Shengen buut resourcing Security Services to be able to monitor the free movement of goods and people because that is how the guns are getting through from the Balkans into the EU. As well as external, trained and dangerous terrorists. We can't do both, cut to the bone and have reliable pro-active security and policing. I guarantee in six months from now the NHS will be in crisis again because 6 months ahead of winter it won't be properly resourced. But there's no place for planning just insane mantras and dictate of Austerity that have not worked in 7 years, and won't work in another 7 years either.
Absurd when May can dig out two Billion for the DUP at a moments notice to keep the Tories in Government. Clearly the money is there but not for the benefit of security, policing or the NHS. Time for Regime Change. [Post edited 3 Aug 2017 16:16]
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Getting your guns from the Balkans now! Sounds awfully slow, when I was a kid you just popped into the Oak in Harlesden and asked to speak with Chunky Davis. | |
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| Tougher Border Controls on 20:10 - Aug 3 with 1907 views | kensalriser |
| Tougher Border Controls on 16:24 - Aug 3 by Metallica_Hoop |
I said going not is.
Anyway that's my opinion understood? If you don't like it tough. |
If you're going to bother having an opinion why not base it on something plausible? | |
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